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Posted by joshmightbe

@Gambit1024: I've never found Batman to be relatable, He's cold, distant, arrogant and kind of a prick. Not to mention that he's got the typical billionaire mentality that he always knows better than everyone else

Posted by sethysquare

Batman, relatable? Who can relate to a billionaire who lost his parents at a young age and seek to be the avenger of the night, putting all criminals to justice.

Superman on the other hand, an outsider, always were too smart and knew too much for his own good. Growing up, people boss him around but despite his powers he never dared to retaliate. He reflects every comic book nerd, he is an outsider, grew up from a small town, went into the big city but always couldn't relate to anyone, because no one can understand what superman really think and feel.

Everyone can relate to Superman.

Posted by Kal'smahboi

ANY time that Superman and Batman fight depends on one thing. Whether Superman is gunning for Bats or not. If Superman has it out for Batman, Batman's dead before he can say "Hey, buddy!" If Superman is just wreaking havoc, Batman can formulate a plan and POSSIBLY stop him. And even that's not a sure thing. Can Batman beat Supes? Sure. Will he? I'll give you a big, big, big "possibly."

Edited by Mega_spidey01

@RedOwl_1 said:

@MuyJingo: I LOVE Batman and defend my believing strongly...... but I already admitted I lost, thanks to last SvsB post I believe Superman win, the fact he is that there's a problemita por aqui

@DeathpooltheT1000 said:

And this is why Batman is a more famous character at this point.

Superman is to damn powerfull, people cant care for Superman becuase lets face it, Batman is way more easy to belive in that Superman who at the end is more powerfull that the DBZ guys, also that the reason why Dargon Ball became more popular that Superman in many parts of the world, here in Mexico, kids still like DB even after the 17 years since the first episode air, but no kid care for Superman.

At this point, Superman is less popular that not only Batman, but other comic book characters.

DC needs to make him weaker, i mean Superman is more powerfull that all the DBZ characters, why i should care about him?.

If Superman had a real weak point, people would care for Superman.

Kinda the point here,

Remember who writes comics and reads them? Common people (with common I'm talking about no powers :P)

and What's Superman? A Kryptonian

Other words? An Alien

And so we're going to believe and admit than in comics that ourselves (humans) make, a overpowered (it's truth and we know it) alien win?

NO That's where started the believe that Batman can defeat Superman..... Believe on that is merely human, like fear or hope, almost natural, think that we humans can do everything if we try, like fly, go undersea, uderground, even to the space and admit it, we all believe or believed that Bats can beat Supes at some point of our lives.

Batman is far more realistic (at least someone rich could be he in this world) than Superman and so we stick to what's realistic for us, so Batman winning in front of someone so f*cking overpowered as Superman looks like a victory of human race, that a human on his best at every sense and point (fiscal and mental) can beat the unbeatable....

But that's just our heart, our human feelings, that thing that tell us that we can do everything, the dimple fact of being a human, that huge will power of the human race...... of course at the very end all are false hopes because Bats really can't beat Supes, as I said, is an overpowered being so........ better use your hopes for other stuff I dunno put Batman against.....Iron Man, Spider Man whoever not SO OVERPOWERED (but man we love Supes overpowered, I mean is part of he, like having a huge moral sense, you can't quit that without quitting that taste of awesomeness, of being an icon and pure dream for a human to arrive there *who doesn't will like to have as many power as him eh?*)

batman is not relatable but he has good stories, he's badass and more interesting than superman to me as a character. i kinda hate the fact that he's arrogant, jerk & always right. to me spider-man is relatable.

Posted by BlackArmor

@azza04 said:

Not even going to bother.

yeah

Posted by joshmightbe

@Mega_spidey01: Spiderman is probably one of the most relatable super heroes there are, He's broke, his job sucks and no matter how much good he does the world is constantly sh!ting on him, yet he still keeps getting up and living his life. About 98% of the human population can relate to that. When he got his powers he didn't instantly decide to be a hero, he did what we'd all do whether we admit it or not. He tried to cash in and had to learn the hard way about responsibility.

Posted by MuyJingo

@DEGRAAF said:

Superman had Superhuman Genius intellect since the silver age of comics

A few years before Flashpoint, post crisis, I don't think he had it? It has come and gone but I don't belive the Superman I was most familiar with had it in the same way Superman from Earth One did.

@RedOwl_1 said:

@MuyJingo: I LOVE Batman and defend my believing strongly...... but I already admitted I lost, thanks to last SvsB post I believe Superman win, the fact he is that there's a problemita por aqui

Bane's point was that Batman has never beaten Superman in canon, which is true.

My point is that a believable story could be written where Batman could beat Superman. It is not crazy and ludicrous as superfanbois keep suggesting.

@DEGRAAF said:

First off this all depends on which era of Superman and Batman you are talking about.

Good point. I basically had in mind pre flashpoint incarnations.

1. Batman is more of a tactician but Superman can and has been shown to be just as cunning when he is facing off against Batman.

Can you give some examples? I'm not familiar with any. Superman was raised on a farm....he just isn't tactical or strategic like Batman, not even close.

2. Superman can just as easily play off of Batmans psychology downfalls like the death of his parents and after decades of fighting crime Gotham has only gotten worse. He could play off Batman's sadness and anger making him lose his concentration.

This seems like grasping at straws to me. Mainly because that is not at all in character for Superman to do that. Has he ever been shown to do that?

3. While Superman's weaknesses are rather damaging it depends on what era you are talking about (does superman get his speed and strength from the sun or from his evolved physiology) and Batman would first have to get the Kryptonite around Superman. A gun would work but Batman's movements are to slow to tag Superman and Superman can still destroy the gun from a distance by simply throwing something back or hitting it with his heat vision. Also Batman would never use magic (not saying he would't get someone else to use magic but then defeats the one on one)

My only point with my blog post is that it is plausible that batman could beat superman. It is a job for the writers to show how.

I agree Batman couldn't shoot Superman with Kryptonite as such, but luring him into a trap or something is likely IMO.

4.Superman is smart enough to look for lead lined items and buildings and nothing is strong enough to hold Superman in one place so is Superman keeps moving (faster than Batman can even see) there is no way of trapping him unless Batman surrounds himself with Kryptonite and even then Superman could still attack him from a far.

That's just silly. Come on. Superman would not be expecting such an elaborate setup, nor would he suspect the lead was necessarily out of the ordinary. If superman was tricked into entering an enclosed space where he was suddenly surrounded by Kryptonite, then he is boned.

5.Superman knows if there is lead it is most likely a trap. Even if he can't see thru it he can still melt the lead and then see what's behind or within it. Also Superman can hear heart beats. He doesn't have to see Batman to know where he is at bc each person has their own unique heart beat rhythm.

Superman would not necessarily notice that there was lead first of all. I don't see how the heart beat rhythem is relevant? It doesn't matter if Superman can see Batman or not, he still has to go after him.

6. Again Superman can see through masks and disguises so he could see Batman's face and if someone is wearing a mask that is lead lined that would obviously be Batman and even still Superman could find him from his heart beat.

First of all, I don't accept that the heart beat thing is true. Can you back that up at all?

Second at all, what in the hell makes you think Superman can see through disguises? Masks yes, but how in the hell would he detect a fake beard or scar is fake?

7. Superman has been shown to eventually over come this. While it is still a threat it depends on how quickly Superman notices the tech, if detected early enough he can simply dive to the bottom of the ocean (freeze it), dive in to a volcano (overheat it), burn it out with his heat vision (overheat it). This does seem like the most possible way of winning to me though although Superman can see at a subatomic level so he should be able to notice the nano tech.

Superman has beaten it eventually. My point it is could be used to give Batman an advantage.

8. Looking at the New Krypton arc shows Superman has learned from Batman (as well as Wonder woman in other stories) and knows different types of martial arts as well as alien types of fighting as well. Also it still depends on if Superman gets his strength and speed from the sun or from his evolved physiology.

Sure, but he relies on his strength. If he were human do you really think he could go toe to toe with Batman?

Superman doesnt have to get close, he can simple throw something from miles away (before Batman can even see him) or shoot him from a far with his heat vision and blow the kryptonite up.

If superman can't get close, than Batman has a much better chance of having protection against heat vision or having things being thrown at him. It depends just how far away Superman has to be though.

Posted by Kallarkz

You are really underestimating his intelligence. You are treating superman like a marvel Hercules who can fly. And you are the one who is desperately grasping at straws. You for some reason need for batman to be able to beat superman when we all know that without a substantial amount of kryptonite that is simply not happening. This does not take away however from how good a character batman is.

Posted by MuyJingo

@Kallarkz said:

You are really underestimating his intelligence. You are treating superman like a marvel Hercules who can fly. And you are the one who is desperately grasping at straws. You for some reason need for batman to be able to beat superman when we all know that without a substantial amount of kryptonite that is simply not happening. This does not take away however from how good a character batman is.

I'm not underestimating his intelligence.

One thing people don't seem to understand is that intelligence is separate from training and knowledge.

Einstein and Stephen Hawking are some of the most intelligent minds we have seen. That doesn't mean they would make the right decisions in a combat situation because they have not had the training or experience. They specialize in physics, where Batman has specialized in tactics and strategy (and of course detective skills). What exactly has Superman specialized in, what knowledge or skills does he have where he can actually put his greater intellect to use?

Also, I don't need for Batman to beat Superman at all. I am perfectly fine with Superman stomping Batman.

My only point has been that good stories could be written with Batman beating Superman that would not rely on CIS or PIS.

Posted by RedOwl_1

@MuyJingo: Aaaaaaaand what about the rest of what I wrote?

@DEGRAAF said:

@RedOwl_1 said:

NO That's where started the believe that Batman can defeat Superman..... Believe on that is merely human, like fear or hope, almost natural, think that we humans can do everything if we try, like fly, go undersea, uderground, even to the space and admit it, we all believe or believed that Bats can beat Supes at some point of our lives.

Batman is far more realistic (at least someone rich could be he in this world) than Superman and so we stick to what's realistic for us, so Batman winning in front of someone so f*cking overpowered as Superman looks like a victory of human race, that a human on his best at every sense and point (fiscal and mental) can beat the unbeatable....

I have never in my life thought Batman could beat Superman as well as i also dont think Batman is any more believable then Superman

I believe you first part, no everybody thoughts the same way, but the second part..... rly?!? I know both are kinda impossible, but who's the most? A good guy with incredible superpowers of other planet or a traumatized/bitter rich trained guy?

Posted by Kallarkz

I love Batman but a bitter rich trained guy is an understatement to who batman is and what he has and the things he's done. As for the author yes story could be written with batman defeating superman...but not without the direct involvement of kryptonite, magic or a red sun.

Posted by MuyJingo

@Kallarkz said:

As for the author yes story could be written with batman defeating superman...but not without the direct involvement of kryptonite, magic or a red sun.

Oh agreed, without a doubt. It's just funny. that superman fanbois dismiss those vulnerabilities as essentially irrelevant, when they are anything but.

@RedOwl_1 said:

@MuyJingo: Aaaaaaaand what about the rest of what I wrote?

My bad, I will reply properly to your previous post.

Posted by Andy Steven Summers

No, just no. >_>

Posted by MuyJingo

@RedOwl_1 said:

NO That's where started the believe that Batman can defeat Superman..... Believe on that is merely human, like fear or hope, almost natural, think that we humans can do everything if we try, like fly, go undersea, uderground, even to the space and admit it, we all believe or believed that Bats can beat Supes at some point of our lives.

Batman is far more realistic (at least someone rich could be he in this world) than Superman and so we stick to what's realistic for us, so Batman winning in front of someone so f*cking overpowered as Superman looks like a victory of human race, that a human on his best at every sense and point (fiscal and mental) can beat the unbeatable....

But that's just our heart, our human feelings, that thing that tell us that we can do everything, the dimple fact of being a human, that huge will power of the human race...... of course at the very end all are false hopes because Bats really can't beat Supes, as I said, is an overpowered being so........ better use your hopes for other stuff I dunno put Batman against.....Iron Man, Spider Man whoever not SO OVERPOWERED (but man we love Supes overpowered, I mean is part of he, like having a huge moral sense, you can't quit that without quitting that taste of awesomeness, of being an icon and pure dream for a human to arrive there *who doesn't will like to have as many power as him eh?*)

Ok a few points.

Batman is not merely human. He is the pinnacle of human what a human can achieve in many respects.

I've always taken Batman winning not as an achievement of the human race (because I view Clark as human in many respects despite him being an alien) but as the full extent of his obsession, training, abilities etc made manifest. It shows what Batman is capable of when giving it his everything, which is, to me, interesting and entertaining.

I agree that people want to see Batman win though....simply because Superman is so overpowered and so it is a good challenge. Watching Batman beat Superman is engaging and amazing because it is such a feat. If the writers wanted to have Superman fly at lightspeed and drop batman into space without Batman even having a chance to prepare, then that's just boring...because we know Superman is that strong.

Posted by Lady_Liberty

This is completely disconnected for realty.

Superman would destroy Bruce before he even knew the fight had started.

Posted by InnerVenom123

Lolololol.

Posted by DEGRAAF

@MuyJingo said:

1. Batman is more of a tactician but Superman can and has been shown to be just as cunning when he is facing off against Batman.

Can you give some examples? I'm not familiar with any. Superman was raised on a farm....he just isn't tactical or strategic like Batman, not even close.

2. Superman can just as easily play off of Batmans psychology downfalls like the death of his parents and after decades of fighting crime Gotham has only gotten worse. He could play off Batman's sadness and anger making him lose his concentration.

This seems like grasping at straws to me. Mainly because that is not at all in character for Superman to do that. Has he ever been shown to do that?

3. While Superman's weaknesses are rather damaging it depends on what era you are talking about (does superman get his speed and strength from the sun or from his evolved physiology) and Batman would first have to get the Kryptonite around Superman. A gun would work but Batman's movements are to slow to tag Superman and Superman can still destroy the gun from a distance by simply throwing something back or hitting it with his heat vision. Also Batman would never use magic (not saying he would't get someone else to use magic but then defeats the one on one)

My only point with my blog post is that it is plausible that batman could beat superman. It is a job for the writers to show how.

I agree Batman couldn't shoot Superman with Kryptonite as such, but luring him into a trap or something is likely IMO.

4.Superman is smart enough to look for lead lined items and buildings and nothing is strong enough to hold Superman in one place so is Superman keeps moving (faster than Batman can even see) there is no way of trapping him unless Batman surrounds himself with Kryptonite and even then Superman could still attack him from a far.

That's just silly. Come on. Superman would not be expecting such an elaborate setup, nor would he suspect the lead was necessarily out of the ordinary. If superman was tricked into entering an enclosed space where he was suddenly surrounded by Kryptonite, then he is boned.

5.Superman knows if there is lead it is most likely a trap. Even if he can't see thru it he can still melt the lead and then see what's behind or within it. Also Superman can hear heart beats. He doesn't have to see Batman to know where he is at bc each person has their own unique heart beat rhythm.

Superman would not necessarily notice that there was lead first of all. I don't see how the heart beat rhythem is relevant? It doesn't matter if Superman can see Batman or not, he still has to go after him.

6. Again Superman can see through masks and disguises so he could see Batman's face and if someone is wearing a mask that is lead lined that would obviously be Batman and even still Superman could find him from his heart beat.

First of all, I don't accept that the heart beat thing is true. Can you back that up at all?

Second at all, what in the hell makes you think Superman can see through disguises? Masks yes, but how in the hell would he detect a fake beard or scar is fake?

7. Superman has been shown to eventually over come this. While it is still a threat it depends on how quickly Superman notices the tech, if detected early enough he can simply dive to the bottom of the ocean (freeze it), dive in to a volcano (overheat it), burn it out with his heat vision (overheat it). This does seem like the most possible way of winning to me though although Superman can see at a subatomic level so he should be able to notice the nano tech.

Superman has beaten it eventually. My point it is could be used to give Batman an advantage.

8. Looking at the New Krypton arc shows Superman has learned from Batman (as well as Wonder woman in other stories) and knows different types of martial arts as well as alien types of fighting as well. Also it still depends on if Superman gets his strength and speed from the sun or from his evolved physiology.

Sure, but he relies on his strength. If he were human do you really think he could go toe to toe with Batman?

Superman doesnt have to get close, he can simple throw something from miles away (before Batman can even see him) or shoot him from a far with his heat vision and blow the kryptonite up.

If superman can't get close, than Batman has a much better chance of having protection against heat vision or having things being thrown at him. It depends just how far away Superman has to be though.

1. I'm looking for scans but i know there have been times that Superman has gotten the upper hand on Batman using his knowledge of his opponent and his surrounds to get the jump on him.

2. This is what i could find so far out of just the scans i have. I will try to look for more. Superman has shown to tear people down emotional and psychologically when it helps his situation.

3. lol doesnt really argue very well but i like it just the same

4. Superman knows how Batman thinks better then anyone (besides maybe Tim and Dick). He knows what to look for. Since this is a "Batman has the possibility of beating Superman" without giving lots of detail i would say that Batman would have to basically have to set up a false date with Lois (considering she is really the only person he lets his total guard down) then surround him with Kryptonite before he knows what is going on. Any other scenario and Superman would come ready for Batman.

5. His heart beat rhythm is relevant bc that means no matter what there is now way of hiding from Superman. also Superman doesnt have to go after him immediately. Superman could simply drop something around Batman keeping him trapped, he could go in from below if the are is surrounded by Kryptonite so as not to be affected by it, he could maim Batman from a distance so he he stuck.

6. Here are some examples about the heart beat thing. The first and second are the best examples

I will agree to that he might not be able to see through the fake scars and beard but Batman would have to do more than put on some fakes scars and beard to fool Superman. (i know i sounds like a fanboy right now but just hear me out) Superman can see at a microscopic level. He can see in to blood streams. He would be able to tell it there is an adhesive holding a beard on or the difference in the fake hair compared to the the persons real hair, he could tell when someone is wearing make up or something on their face.

7. I agree it could. Batman would very tiny windows of opportunity to take down Superman and probably no more then 2 opportunities in an entire battle between the two.

8. The whole point of 8 was to show that he has learn how to go toe to toe when he cant rely on his powers. When fighting someone stronger then him he relies on tactics, when he fights someone faster he relies on tactics. He has learned pressure points and moves to fight even when he is human. (also this still depends on whether or not he gets his sped and power from the sun or from his advanced physiology)

9. I agree with that but Superman can melt just about anything so to think that Batman could hide behind something wouldn't last very long if at all Also a good portrayal of a Superhero attacking a human from a distance would be like. (sorry for the poor quality)

Edited by TheSouthernCatwoman

I take it this photo (and many others like it) isn't what the superman fans want to see. I guess Batman can punch Superman without breaking his hand huh. Who would have guessed? I will never say that superman can not hold his on with batman, but I do believe that batman (as long as he has possession of any form of Kryptonite) will beat superman the majority of the time. Under a Red Sun Batman will beat Superman ALL of the time. Take away Superman's powers (Red Sun) and what does Superman have? Take away his technology and Batman is still physically peak human, still DC's best hand to hand combatant, still a master strategist and tactician. One of the Superman fan boys claimed Superman "flys at the speed of light." Was that a mistake or deliberate lie? First of all The Flash is faster then Superman (he can't be faster then the speed of light) second of all the phrase "faster then a speeding bullet" refers to the SOUND BARRIER. So yes Superman is faster then the speed of sound but so what? Today's fighter jets all break the sound barrier and many can reach MACH 2. Some even MACH 3. Has there ever even been a fight Superman has won without the use of his powers? Batman takes on Meta Humans far more powerful then him on a daily basis. Bane is not only stronger then Batman he is almost his equal in intelligence. Batman is good all round and adaptable. Superman just relies on his powers and those can be easily blocked or taken away. Batman doesn't have Kryptonite OR a Red Sun.

Posted by TheSouthernCatwoman

Hey DEGRAAF case and point? Thanks for uploading. A prize for anyone that can name the exact comic and series it is taken from.

Posted by joshmightbe

@TheSouthernCatwoman: Beating Superman with Kryptonite isn't a feat, that's like poisoning Mike Tyson then knocking him out while he could barely move and then trying to convince people its proof you can always kick his ass

Posted by tensor

@TheSouthernCatwoman:

Posted by drgnx

Batman is VERY UNLIKELY to beat Superman in a straight up fair fight. He could "trick" him with prep. Nothing is to stop Batman from handing him a lead box of Kryptonite, then waiting for Superman to open it, while he walks behind him, then shooting him in the back while Superman is off-gaurd (but that would be something I could see the Joker doing).

Posted by 13x

Batman always can research any characters weakness and he obviously knows supermans is * kryptonite* thats why he always beats superman and superman fans cant accept it.

Edited by TheSouthernCatwoman

@joshmightbe did you miss what I wrote about the Red Sun or are you simply choosing to ignore it on purpose?

"Beating Superman with Kryptonite isn't a feat, that's like poisoning Mike Tyson then knocking him out while he could barely move and then trying to convince people its proof you can always kick his ass" Its a shame that a Red Sun doesn't physically harm Superman then isn't it? Under a Red Sun Superman loses all of his super human powers but his health is 100% unaffected. He simply because a normal human. If Batman and Superman were to fight unarmed hand to hand, fist to fist under a Red Sun you tell me who would win. Under those circumstances (fighting man to man, unarmed and on an equal basis) yes Batman would win every time. Don't even pretend Superman has equal or better unarmed hand to hand fighting skills then Batman.

As for using Kryptonite and complaining that Kryptonite gives Batman an unfair advantage why is allowing Superman super human powers while Batman has none any less of a massive unfair disadvantage? If Batman uses Kryptonite its unfair but if Superman fights with enough strength to move planets and enough speed to move faster then sound while Batman is using the strength and speed of a normal human its "fair"?

Bias much?

thank you. That is my point. In a more simplified form.

Posted by drgnx

@TheSouthernCatwoman: If Batman gets prep Superman gets prep!

Posted by christianrapper

i am so sick of the 'with prep' argument. with prep time superman will win easily. superman would just show up in a leas suit and then supes would have no weakness. there is no way that batman can beat superman.

Posted by TheSouthernCatwoman

@christianrapper if Superman shows up in a lead suit while under a Red Sun he is still going to get his sorry ass kicked. So yes under a Red Sun he will loose and if he looses under a Red Sun then your statement "There is no way that Batman can beat Superman" is incorrect. How exactly is being in a lead suit going to allow Superman to keep his powers if he's under a Red Sun? Therefore lead suit or not under a Red Sun Superman would and can loose, therefore despite your claim there is in fact a way Batman can beat Superman. Or were you unaware of how a Red Sun effects Superman and how a lead suit wouldn't matter under a Red Sun?

As for prep time if Batman has prep time he will have his Kryptonite or something equally able to effect Superman (possibly magic but unlikely) how is prep time going to help Superman? When has he EVER made any use of prep time? Scans anyone?

Posted by nickzambuto

Only read the OP, but here is my 2 cents.

While you came up with a highly probable scenario, and I agree it is possible for Batman to beat Superman... fact is Lex Luthor can't so Mr. Wayne will have a helluva hard time.

Posted by joshmightbe

@TheSouthernCatwoman: You're still trying to say that's a feat? Of course Batman can beat him when he's powerless, Batman is a world class martial artist where as Superman has never had to master that type of fighting. I'm saying in a straight up fight with both being able to use all their abilities Superman would destroy Batman and I'm sorry but I will never consider poisoning or a master martial artist beating up a powerless human with no where near the level of training to be valid feats

Edited by drgnx

@TheSouthernCatwoman said:

@christianrapper if Superman shows up in a lead suit while under a Red Sun he is still going to get his sorry ass kicked. So yes under a Red Sun he will loose and if he looses under a Red Sun then your statement "There is no way that Batman can beat Superman" is incorrect. How exactly is being in a lead suit going to allow Superman to keep his powers if he's under a Red Sun? Therefore lead suit or not under a Red Sun Superman would and can loose, therefore despite your claim there is in fact a way Batman can beat Superman. Or were you unaware of how a Red Sun effects Superman and how a lead suit wouldn't matter under a Red Sun?

The only difference between Red Solar Radiation and Yellow Solar Radiation is that energy emitted in the Red Wavelength is more dominant in the former than it is in the later. If visible light can be blocked by walls, why would you even consider they can't be blocked by a lead suit? In this Suit, Superman should not be getting yellow or red sunlight, meaning he is acting on reserves.

As for prep time if Batman has prep time he will have his Kryptonite or something equally able to effect Superman (possibly magic but unlikely) how is prep time going to help Superman? When has he EVER made any use of prep time? Scans anyone?

This is Superman with prep. He was clearly prepared for this situation, wouldn't you say? If this is not prep, I don't know what is.

Posted by TheSouthernCatwoman

@joshmightbe so Superman defeating Batman when BATMAN is powerless is a feat but Batman defeating SUPERMAN when he is powerless isn't a feat? Bias? Superman wouldn't be a "powerless human" under a Red Sun. He would be a HUMAN. Batman is a human, Superman would be a human therefore they would be equal. How is beating someone that is your equal a loss? If Superman ever got off his lazy arrogant ass and bothered to do the same training as Batman he would be his hand to hand rival. Your blaming Batman because Superman is too lazy to learn martial arts? If Batman were to use his gadgets when Superman was under a Red Sun and had no powers that would be an unfair advantage but to blame Batman because in a fair fight Superman is too lazy to learn how to fight is a weak argument. That's like blaming Superman for using his powers because Batman can't fly.

My argument was never that Batman would always win or that defeating Superman under a Red Sun was hard (its not) it was simply that under some conditions Batman can defeat Superman. So Superman can not win EVERY fight he has with Batman under ALL conditions.

Posted by TheSouthernCatwoman

@drgnx as the comics have shown his reserves don't last long. Seems almost instant to me. (Which is inconsistent with him flying and using his powers at night under a Yellow Sun but that is besides the point.) I think you misunderstood why I was making the point about the Red Sun earlier. A different user seemed to think that by wearing a lead suit Superman not only became immune to Kryptonite but somehow (never explained how) was able to keep his powers forever while under a Red Sun. Can anyone explain that logic to me? The point I was making is the lead suit makes him immune to Kryptonite but won't allow him to keep his powers under a Red Sun. Lead suit or not under a Red Sun he'll be forced to fight Batman without his powers and in a hand to hand fight, man to man (Superman under a Red Sun without his powers and Batman without his gadgets) Batman will win. The person that I was speaking to about the Red Sun and lead suit seemed to think he could keep his powers under a Red Sun and win said fight just by wearing a lead suit. As for the prep you mentioned its a nice concept but I meant can anyone supply scans showing Superman using the same time and prep Batman uses (creating a plan which uses intelligence and traps to defeat a way way more powerful foe)?

Posted by joshmightbe

@TheSouthernCatwoman: I never said Superman beating Batman was a feat. Superman beating any powerless human isn't a feat because he has god-like powers which means there'd be absolutely no shame in Batman losing to him.

Posted by joshmightbe

And how is it Lazy to not learn something you'd rarely ever need? And superman is far more humble than Batman has ever been despite having tons more to brag about

Edited by drgnx

@TheSouthernCatwoman:

Ah Okay. Yes, context is very important. How long he keeps his powers is debatable. Fighting with the lead suit should be like fighting away from direct sunlight. He has fought in-doors before and under ground, and that should technically be no different than fighting in the suit as sunlight should not reach underground. He has fought at night as well, so it is not like his powers drain quickly without any direct sunlight. And It really should not take Superman long to take out Batman if that is his objective and they are both prepared.

The amount off prep Batman would need to take on Superman in a lead suit is beyond any combined effort shown in their other battles. He really would need something like a Mech of his own just to last long enough to get Superman out of his lead Suit. Superman could just fly them away from the red solar radiation panels (he would know what Batman is trying to do).

If you want feats of Superman doing any prep to take out a more powerful foe, you're probably better off starting a different thread. Because an implication and questionable relevance of requesting it on this thread might cause certain posters to ignore it.

Posted by joshmightbe

I just don't see why people think Batman losing to Superman would take away from the character. Would these people think less of a guy for getting mauled by a bear?

Posted by entropy_aegis

Muy Jingo vs CV and sadly he seems to be winning.

Posted by DeathpooltheT1000

The thing is with powers Superman can beat anyone.

Without powers, he is pretty much worthless.

His intelligence and everything is pretty much a power, powerless Superman is worthless, Lex is rigth about the fact that Superman cheats at everything.

The point here is, that Superman is so overpowered, that you dont notice that there is no way many guy feel anything for Superman who is pretty much omnipotent, with huge morals and is pretty much "better" that Jesus(Jesus in the bibble is way more human that Superman).

I mean for all i know, Superman overpowered ass could beat Q from Star Trek, just for the fact he is Superman.

Batman can beat Superman if he gest the same powers or Superman loses his.

So Batman can beat Superman, but it needs years to make the plan and a lot of help .

Also, no one beat Alfred if Superman kills Batman, Alfred will kill Superman, Supergirl, Zod and all the rest of damn dumb aliens.

No one f@ckz with Alfred.

Posted by The_Eurythmic_King_of_Nowhere

Ok. I saw this post and I thought "fanboys are about to flip sh*t!!" Nice to know you guys never disappoint. Ok someone tag me in!!

Team Batman!

Ok. Screw a fair fight. With these two, there's no such thing. Also let's say, for the sake of the argument "unlimited prep time". That being said: Batman for the win. Why? because Superman ALWAYS holds back. It's why we love him. Consciously, he knows that if he went all out he'd kill Batman easy. Bruce knows this & he'll use that to his advantage every time. Idk post-flashpoint. Don't care. But pre Superman was a virtual god. Despite how angry he got he would never use his full power or even lethal force on a human. He couldnt. Superman beats Batman in every possible way except the main one: Batman is bat-sh*t crazy and isn't gonna hold back for an alien that could kill him easy. I think Batman knows Superman's limits and Superman knows (he is pretty smart), that Bruce will always win just like Luthor will always get off, because Superman will always pull punches and never pull the trigger. Batman would. Even if Superman was pushed to fight with the force that could kill a human, it would be because of some altered mental or emotional state, meaning he wouldn't be able to control himself or his powers as well as he normally can, giving Batman the mental/strategic advantage. The only way Superman wins is using force (lets say 50% of his actual strength which is probably more than enough) and in perfect health and sound mind. Then Batman will be crushed!!! But as long as we're talkin Superman normally fighting a human (even one he views as a threat), Batman takes the advantage of fighting dirty, and willing to make the hard choices (Not that he would kill, if his record with the Joker is any indication). I may be biased but I admit Superman beats Batman in every way from Sunday bloody sunday. Intelligence, strength, speed. The only thing the Bat has is a slight strategic advantage in hand-to-hand combat, sh*twads of money and handy access to kryponite & a Lazarus Pit (hopefully). Yet in still, while Superman is clearly SUPERior (lol. puns...) Batman Wins.

Now fanboys. Lets get down to real business. We know we're all thinking it: Batman & Superman vs Edward & Jacob. Let's go crazy! lol.

Posted by RandomThang

A blood lusted Superman wouldn't even bother with prep, he wouldn't even put on his suit, a blood lusted Superman will go full speed to find Batman. A Superman who isn't blood lusted with a calm mind will properly understand to prepare against Kryptonites (say for example, he knows Batman will use it against him, and Batman is terrorizing Metropolis), however, he will hold back.

This is a 2 way thing.

Posted by ComicStooge

Cracked.com put it best:

"But to hit the smug Superman even once, that's Batman's victory. To show what humanity can achieve with work and dedication. To face the impossible as a challenge and a duty. Superman is just swatting a fly. Batman is reaching out to touch the face of God. By punching it."

Posted by stormphoenix

Hmm i dont know I always thought the Bats was capable of beating Supes with smarts etc.(That's just me)

Posted by MrShway88

Since neither will kill, what is consider a victory if both fight?

Posted by Dernman

Sigh

Posted by Shawnbaby
Posted by Eternal19

superman could easily beat batman. all the times they fought supes powers were either nerfed or he was under mind control. if superman was in his right mind he could beat batman. in the New 52 superman is less of a boyscout so i believe if batman threatened him he would not hesitate to hurt batman.

Posted by Wolfrazer
So what if this happens and Batman is all alone?......EXACTLY he can't win. 
Posted by kasino

Bats could win, he's already show numerous times he is capable of evening the playing field

Posted by YoungJustice

Bumping because its funny.

Posted by Eternal19

@YoungJustice: It is pretty funny. You should go to the storm forum youll find a bunch of funny threads