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Posted by gbpack089

A new Superman/Batman book has been announced

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2013/02/21/batman-superman-comic-book-series/1935817/

Posted by TheMess1428

Updated for the Fourth Wave.

Posted by HempKnight757

@John Valentine: Why shouldn't Batwing have his own book. I love how all these people are hating on it, but based of comments haven't even read the series. Batwing is a fresh character in a fresh world and I love it. JLI & Batwing have been my favorite. Action Comics rushed. All-Star Western very good, but last issue was so wack. Resurrection Man good, but up & down.

Posted by sethysquare

@scuzz2.0 said:

@sethysquare said:

Bottom 12, from the highest sales.

I predict these 12 would be cancelled. Deathstroke however have been increasing in sales, so, if it increases enough then probably Batwing would get cancelled in its place.

Deathstroke

I, Vampire

Savage Hawkman

Legion Lost

Frankenstein

DCU Presents

Fury of Firestorm

Resurrection Man

Grifter

Blue Beetle

Voodoo

Captain Atom

The following is from Comic Beat
103 - DEATHSTROKE 09/2011: Deathstroke #1 -- 47,028 [56,820] 10/2011: Deathstroke #2 -- 44,647 (- 5.1%) 11/2011: Deathstroke #3 -- 33,754 (-24.4%) 12/2011: Deathstroke #4 -- 26,367 (-21.9%) 01/2012: Deathstroke #5 -- 23,872 (- 9.5%) 02/2012: Deathstroke #6 -- 21,306 (-10.8%) 03/2012: Deathstroke #7 -- 19,744 (- 7.3%) -----------------

and comichron lists issue 8 as selling 16,951 and coming in 112th in the chart.

there is no increase in sales and you have to remember that this is BEFORE Liefeld took over.

But that Deathstroke is reported to have increased in sales for #9 after liefeld take over. Most probably from deadpool and liefeld fans. Which was what I am refering to.

Edited by scuzz2.0

Why havent comicvine reported JLI's cancellation?

does anyone know a site that has serious reviews of comics and is not just run by fanboys who reward mediocrity with perfect scores?

Edited by scuzz2.0

@sethysquare said:

Bottom 12, from the highest sales.

I predict these 12 would be cancelled. Deathstroke however have been increasing in sales, so, if it increases enough then probably Batwing would get cancelled in its place.

Deathstroke

I, Vampire

Savage Hawkman

Legion Lost

Frankenstein

DCU Presents

Fury of Firestorm

Resurrection Man

Grifter

Blue Beetle

Voodoo

Captain Atom

The following is from Comic Beat
103 - DEATHSTROKE 09/2011: Deathstroke #1 -- 47,028 [56,820] 10/2011: Deathstroke #2 -- 44,647 (- 5.1%) 11/2011: Deathstroke #3 -- 33,754 (-24.4%) 12/2011: Deathstroke #4 -- 26,367 (-21.9%) 01/2012: Deathstroke #5 -- 23,872 (- 9.5%) 02/2012: Deathstroke #6 -- 21,306 (-10.8%) 03/2012: Deathstroke #7 -- 19,744 (- 7.3%) -----------------

and comichron lists issue 8 as selling 16,951 and coming in 112th in the chart.

there is no increase in sales and you have to remember that this is BEFORE Liefeld took over.
Posted by TheOptimist

@MrArrogant: I just can't see them cutting I, Vampire all that soon... the book has frankly done rather well, against really low expectations... the critical response has been overwhelming, the sales figures are getting better with each new release... eventually the book will find its way to the great longbox in the sky, but it certainly doesn't seem to be heading that way any time soon. Eventually all things must pass...

Posted by MrArrogant

If I, vampire gets cancelled I would literally cry, it's in my top 3 books of the reboot! The other choices I wouldn't mind see go as they're either unnecessary (like the dark knight) or really mediocre (catwoman) personally I think they need to take the chopping block to some of the bat books, especially red hood. I also think that the 3 Liefield books will go, look what happened to the last one he was on.

Posted by haydenclaireheroes

6 Titles I would cancel are:

Batman the Dark Knight

Legion Lost

Blue Beetle

Deathstroke

Frankenstein Agent of Shade

Voodoo

Posted by HempKnight757

@Loki9876: Totally agree. Resurrection Man hasn't been great, but the story of Mitch Shelley has been an intriguing & much different story than anything else in the DCU.

Posted by knighthood

@TheOptimist: Gotcha. I would love to hear that Captain Atom was safe.

Posted by TheMess1428

@TheOptimist said:

@knighthood: Ignore what I said before... I was speaking purely with regards to the revelations of the solicitations, and those titles not bearing the "Final issue" tag... which turned out to just be JLI. At the time, the listed titles were the only ones whose solicitations had been released.

Yeah I was going to say... lol

Posted by TheOptimist

@knighthood: Ignore what I said before... I was speaking purely with regards to the revelations of the solicitations, and those titles not bearing the "Final issue" tag... which turned out to just be JLI. At the time, the listed titles were the only ones whose solicitations had been released.

Edited by Sharkey

DC should make a monthly pirate-centric title, because everyone loves pirates. Well they already covered the ninja archetype well with the Talons of the Court of Owls, no?
 
Whether a contemporary take on modern piracy or a DC-flavoured interpretation of the golden age of looting, murder and rum aplenty, I don't care! :)

Posted by knighthood

@TheOptimist said:

Justice League International. Final Issue, #12, then the Annual. I have to say. Didn't see that coming. What? I guess we're seeing the next wave of endings today...

So far the (seemingly) safe books are: Justice League, Earth-2, World's Finest, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Captain Atom, DC Universe Presents, Firestorm, Flash, Green Arrow and Hawkman.

Safe? I'm curious how Captain Atom would be considered safe? Have sales increased?

Posted by Ligerdrag20

@spiderbat87: I like I' vampire I really do. It's been one of my favorite comics ever since the new 52 and I'v kept up with it religiously. On the other hand I found Captain atom to be a boring and terribly written book with passable art :l It's like the exact opposite of I, vampire. That's just my opinion though.

Posted by TheMess1428

@Sharkey said:

I reckon some of the titles need merging together to be honest.

Let's look at Detective Comics and Batman: The Dark Knight for instance.

Detective now has a main and a side story a month, but Tony Daniel's writing skills leave something to be desired (can't bash his art though).

Now, TDK is considered by many to be somewhat redundant with all the Batbooks on the market at the moment. It has been successful sales-wise but not so had so impressive ratings, perhaps the reason the ever-talented writer Greg Hurwitz is coming on board for #10.

If DC had the sense they would merge TDK into Detective and let Hurwitz take up main writing duties with Daniels still on art duty. Pretty much every issue / series I've read with the same person doing writing and art duties tends to suffer for it. Of course, keep the current Two-Face side story, I quite like that. :)

tldr; Hurwitz should write Detective, Daniels should stick to art. TDK is redundant. :p

I haven't heard that idea yet and I like it but I'd really prefer to lose TDK altogether and just make Detective Comics into a Batman version of DC Universe Presents but with only Batman characters like Red Robin, Spoiler, and Black Bat.

@Adnan said:

A Cyborg solo please, drawn by Rafael Grampa. If you're gonna make his design overly intricate then have someone who is able to draw this sorta stuff do the art, 'cos Jim Lee can't do it consistently and he designed the character. It'll probably end up being written by Johns, considering how big a fan he is of the character.

@Twentyfive said:

DC, if you cancel Blue Beetle, I swear to god....

other than that, I want a new Outsiders, Doom Patrol, or Cyborg.

If it is true that JLI is the only comic getting cancelled in August, then that would mean that the comic replacing it is most likely Cyborg because Geoff Johns already announced that there will be Cyborg comic soon.

Posted by Twentyfive

DC, if you cancel Blue Beetle, I swear to god....

other than that, I want a new Outsiders, Doom Patrol, or Cyborg.

We do NOT need any more Batman/Batman family books.

Posted by Adnan
@Sharkey said:

I reckon some of the titles need merging together to be honest.

Let's look at Detective Comics and Batman: The Dark Knight for instance.

Detective now has a main and a side story a month, but Tony Daniel's writing skills leave something to be desired (can't bash his art though).

Now, TDK is considered by many to be somewhat redundant with all the Batbooks on the market at the moment. It has been successful sales-wise but not so had so impressive ratings, perhaps the reason the ever-talented writer Greg Hurwitz is coming on board for #10.

If DC had the sense they would merge TDK into Detective and let Hurwitz take up main writing duties with Daniels still on art duty. Pretty much every issue / series I've read with the same person doing writing and art duties tends to suffer for it. Of course, keep the current Two-Face side story, I quite like that. :)

tldr; Hurwitz should write Detective, Daniels should stick to art. TDK is redundant. :p

That sounds pretty good, actually. I think DC wants to keep Finch around though, I wonder what would happen to him should that happen.
 
Anyways, I think JL and JLU should be merged into a JLU-style group. Have 2-5 issue story arcs focusing on a different squad of characters, with the Big 3 being somewhat reccuring throughout.
A Cyborg solo please, drawn by Rafael Grampa. If you're gonna make his design overly intricate then have someone who is able to draw this sorta stuff do the art, 'cos Jim Lee can't do it consistently and he designed the character. It'll probably end up being written by Johns, considering how big a fan he is of the character.
A Milestone property set in Dakota. There is a treasure trove of characters DC is sitting on that they aren't using. Instead of sprinkling Milestone characters in DC locations, make the DCnU bigger, there is plenty of room for it anyway.
A non-GL cosmic title could be nice.
Posted by Sharkey

I reckon some of the titles need merging together to be honest.

Let's look at Detective Comics and Batman: The Dark Knight for instance.

Detective now has a main and a side story a month, but Tony Daniel's writing skills leave something to be desired (can't bash his art though).

Now, TDK is considered by many to be somewhat redundant with all the Batbooks on the market at the moment. It has been successful sales-wise but not so had so impressive ratings, perhaps the reason the ever-talented writer Greg Hurwitz is coming on board for #10.

If DC had the sense they would merge TDK into Detective and let Hurwitz take up main writing duties with Daniels still on art duty. Pretty much every issue / series I've read with the same person doing writing and art duties tends to suffer for it. Of course, keep the current Two-Face side story, I quite like that. :)

tldr; Hurwitz should write Detective, Daniels should stick to art. TDK is redundant. :p

Posted by TheMess1428

@HotSauceCommittee said:

@TheMess1428 said:

From what solicitations for August 2012 that are out so far, they have pretty much announced that Justice League International is getting cancelled. From the clues on the other titles, I have reason to believe Catwoman is getting cancelled too but I could be mistaken. Not easy to tell what the other 4 are yet.

And that would be?

The solicits for Catwoman #12 say: "The big finale is here, as CATWOMAN confronts DOLLHOUSE!" I did say that I could be mistaken but it seems like it could be the finale to the book altogether or to the storyarc itself. I have a feeling it could be the book.

@TheOptimist said:

I'm willing to admit that we might've jumped the gun on calling this the third wave of cancellations. Only JLI is coming to its close, and the hint right now is that it is going to be replaced by a League-centric title spinning out of the events of the Annual. No other books are being cancelled, or at the very least, no other books are being billed as having their final issue.

One book, not six. Probably cancelled to pave the way, rather than as a consequence purely of sales.

First of all, it's not the third wave of cancellations. Its the third wave of comics coming in. These are the only second cancellations since The New 52 started. And they didn't advertise it in the solicitations last time, not that I know of anyway, and I'm pretty sure they are not going to do it this time. If they did do it last time, I am pretty sure they won't do it this time because they know people are expecting cancellations again. And for all we know, JLI could have been designed to end up with only 12 issues and an annual. To quote the Joker, "It's all part of the plan." Or at least it could... Maybe it will be replaced with a new Booster Gold solo ongoing title. Which, personally, would make me happy.@Funrush said:

@NewKid said:

@Funrush said:

I kind of hope Batwing gets cancelled in place of Deathstroke so we can put Red Robin there, because we need Red Robin, but have too many batbooks.

noooo. i really like batwing, but i love red robin and would def want it back. and i also agree that there are too many bat books. but i'd rather see TDK go (not going to happen as it's selling too well), or catwoman, which i want to like but meh...

i'd even rather red hood go than batwing...

IMO the batbooks they need to drop should be in this order:

  • Batwing/Catwoman
  • Dark Knight/Batwoman
  • Birds of Prey
  • Batgirl (I don't think this or Birds are selling too well)
  • Red Hood
  • Detective
  • Nightwing
  • Batman and Robin
  • Batman

I don't think Red Hood, Detective, Nightwing, Batman and Robin, or Batman should be cancelled, though.

I don't really mind Batwing or Catwoman going away and I would like for Dark Knight to go. I do not want Batwoman to go and I think Batgirl and Birds of Prey just need creator changes.

Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

Well we know JLI is down and out after #12 if we are to believe the solicits. As for who's next, I couldn't even tell you.

Posted by Funrush

@NewKid said:

@Funrush said:

I kind of hope Batwing gets cancelled in place of Deathstroke so we can put Red Robin there, because we need Red Robin, but have too many batbooks.

noooo. i really like batwing, but i love red robin and would def want it back. and i also agree that there are too many bat books. but i'd rather see TDK go (not going to happen as it's selling too well), or catwoman, which i want to like but meh...

i'd even rather red hood go than batwing...

IMO the batbooks they need to drop should be in this order:

  • Batwing/Catwoman
  • Dark Knight/Batwoman
  • Birds of Prey
  • Batgirl (I don't think this or Birds are selling too well)
  • Red Hood
  • Detective
  • Nightwing
  • Batman and Robin
  • Batman

I don't think Red Hood, Detective, Nightwing, Batman and Robin, or Batman should be cancelled, though.

Posted by John Valentine

@Funrush said:

@John Valentine said:

Why do half of these titles (e.g. Batwing) even have a title?

I assume to test the waters, but they're clearly not selling as well as other titles they could have put in their place, so they should just cancel some of them.

Very true. I suppose it's a nice thing for diehard fans of the characters.

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous
@ReVamp said:

@spiderbat87 said:

If I, Vampire or Captain Atom get cancelled I will drop ALL my DC books like a bad habit also I will post a foul mouth rant about all the fans that ignored or wrote them off without actually reading them, especially if they used non-excuses like "oh I'm just sick of Vampires now"

1 Months later and this is still true.

so true
Edited by Funrush

@John Valentine said:

Why do half of these titles (e.g. Batwing) even have a title?

I assume to test the waters, but they're clearly not selling as well as other titles they could have put in their place, so they should just cancel some of them.

@ReVamp said:

@spiderbat87 said:

If I, Vampire or Captain Atom get cancelled I will drop ALL my DC books like a bad habit also I will post a foul mouth rant about all the fans that ignored or wrote them off without actually reading them, especially if they used non-excuses like "oh I'm just sick of Vampires now"

1 Months later and this is still true.

No need to drop all of your DC books over it. It's not like DC doesn't like those titles, it's just that if they're not selling well, they should be replaced with titles that do.

Posted by NewKid

@Funrush said:

I kind of hope Batwing gets cancelled in place of Deathstroke so we can put Red Robin there, because we need Red Robin, but have too many batbooks.

noooo. i really like batwing, but i love red robin and would def want it back. and i also agree that there are too many bat books. but i'd rather see TDK go (not going to happen as it's selling too well), or catwoman, which i want to like but meh...

i'd even rather red hood go than batwing...

Edited by John Valentine

Why do half of these characters (e.g. Batwing) even have a title?

Posted by ReVamp

@spiderbat87 said:

If I, Vampire or Captain Atom get cancelled I will drop ALL my DC books like a bad habit also I will post a foul mouth rant about all the fans that ignored or wrote them off without actually reading them, especially if they used non-excuses like "oh I'm just sick of Vampires now"

1 Months later and this is still true.

Posted by Funrush

@sethysquare said:

Bottom 12, from the highest sales.

I predict these 12 would be cancelled. Deathstroke however have been increasing in sales, so, if it increases enough then probably Batwing would get cancelled in its place.

Deathstroke

I, Vampire

Savage Hawkman

Legion Lost

Frankenstein

DCU Presents

Fury of Firestorm

Resurrection Man

Grifter

Blue Beetle

Voodoo

Captain Atom

I kind of hope Batwing gets cancelled in place of Deathstroke so we can put Red Robin there, because we need Red Robin, but have too many batbooks.

Posted by TheOptimist

I'm willing to admit that we might've jumped the gun on calling this the third wave of cancellations. Only JLI is coming to its close, and the hint right now is that it is going to be replaced by a League-centric title spinning out of the events of the Annual. No other books are being cancelled, or at the very least, no other books are being billed as having their final issue.

One book, not six. Probably cancelled to pave the way, rather than as a consequence purely of sales.

Posted by htb106

JLI's already gone...

Posted by HotSauceCommittee

@TheMess1428 said:

From what solicitations for August 2012 that are out so far, they have pretty much announced that Justice League International is getting cancelled. From the clues on the other titles, I have reason to believe Catwoman is getting cancelled too but I could be mistaken. Not easy to tell what the other 4 are yet.

And that would be?

Posted by TheMess1428

From what solicitations for August 2012 that are out so far, they have pretty much announced that Justice League International is getting cancelled. From the clues on the other titles, I have reason to believe Catwoman is getting cancelled too but I could be mistaken. Not easy to tell what the other 4 are yet.

Posted by Sharkey

@The_Tree said:

@The Mighty Monarch: I actually did read that issue, I forgot that he even wrote it, it was fantastic. Maybe after Grant gets finishes up his master plan in Batman Incorporated, it could become some sort of Batman-family anthology title, I'd love some sort of series like that.

That would be amazing. Perhaps having three-issue arcs with rotating creative teams and characters could work with such a title. I eagerly await the day that either David Hine or Kyle Higgins return to Nightrunner and his wacky villains gallery. :)

Posted by TheOptimist

Justice League International. Final Issue, #12, then the Annual. I have to say. Didn't see that coming. What? I guess we're seeing the next wave of endings today...

So far the (seemingly) safe books are: Justice League, Earth-2, World's Finest, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Captain Atom, DC Universe Presents, Firestorm, Flash, Green Arrow and Hawkman.

Posted by sethysquare

Bottom 12, from the highest sales.

I predict these 12 would be cancelled. Deathstroke however have been increasing in sales, so, if it increases enough then probably Batwing would get cancelled in its place.

Deathstroke

I, Vampire

Savage Hawkman

Legion Lost

Frankenstein

DCU Presents

Fury of Firestorm

Resurrection Man

Grifter

Blue Beetle

Voodoo

Captain Atom

Posted by TheOptimist

@Dernman said:

@CitizenBane said:

Where is the Fourth World book, DC? Where?

They talked about Multiplicity way back when 52 first started. I thought it was a summer event. They must have pushed it back. Maybe the fall. Hope they didn't change their mind.

Multiversity has been slated for summer... not only this summer, but the previous summer as well. And the one before that even. That book... *sigh* Well, we'll see if it ever comes out.

Posted by Dernman
@CitizenBane said:

Where is the Fourth World book, DC? Where?

They talked about Multiplicity way back when 52 first started. I thought it was a summer event. They must have pushed it back. Maybe the fall. Hope they didn't change their mind.
Posted by Dark_Vengeance_

wait,wait let me get this straight, they're cancelling series and putting, Batman incorporated. only one to decribe how I feel right now.

Posted by Saren

Where is the Fourth World book, DC? Where?

Moderator
Posted by TheOptimist

@ZEELLO said:

nah, I just thought there'd be a list or a page for it somewhere. Come to think of it, what's the point of a creator change if they're not going to advertise the fact there was a change?

''#9 was written and drawn by Rob Liefeld''

oh dear.

They do advertise the creative changes... in solicitations, covers and advertisements. I actually keep track of the writers/artists of all the DC New 52 books in a list here on comicvine... while not quite efficient for what you're looking for, it lists all issues that a creator is responsible for since the creation of the new 52... it is currently being updated, but here are some highlights of information:

Books that have received a New Writer

Batman: The Dark Knight (Gregg Hurwitz, taking over at issue #10)

DC Universe Presents (James Robinson, taking over at issue #9)

Deathstroke (Rob Liefeld, took over at issue #9)

Frankenstein (Matt Kindt, taking over at issue #10)

Green Arrow (Ann Nocenti, took over at issue #7)

Grifter (Rob Liefeld plotting, Frank Tieri scripting, taking over at issue #9)

Justice League Dark (Jeff Lemire, taking over at issue #9)

Legion Lost (Tom DeFalco, took over at issue #7)

Stormwatch (Peter Milligan, took over at issue #9)

Superman (Dan Jurgens, took over at issue #9)

Fury of Firestorm (Gail Simone departed, replaced by Joe Harris at #7)

Voodoo (Josh Williamson, took over at issue #4)

Artists Changes

I'm not going to list them all, because artists tend to change rather frequently, allow fill in arcs and the like... many of the books retain their core artists but have a guest fill in with them at some point... I'm just going to include some of the notable that spring to mind.

Animal Man (Steve Pugh), Batwing (Marcus To), Birds of Prey (Travel Foreman), Resurrection Man (Jesus Saiz), Savage Hawkman (Joe Bennett), Deathstroke (Rob Liefeld)

As a note, many of those are merely rotations from one book to another... Travel Foreman wanted to take a break from Animal Man because of personal reasons connecting to the theme of death that was pervasive throughout the book.

Posted by knighthood

@TheMess1428 said:

@knighthood: I love Red Hood and Grifter. I hope they don't go away. I'm sad they changed Deathstroke. But you really think Spectre, the Challengers, and Zealot could hold their own title right now? And the Wildcats and Authority don't exist on this universe.

I just dropped Redhood. It has great art, but I really haven't been impressed lately.

Liefeld is the touch of death for any comic series. That is why Grifter is on my list.

A Spectre title would be a great addition to the dark group. I'd rather see Challengers than another GI Combat title.

Stormwatch is the Authority + Martian Manhunter. Grifter and Voodoo are major parts of Wildcats, if they can be parts of the DCU why couldn't Ladytron, Spartan, Maul, and Void?

Speaking of which, Warblade's recent appearance in the Culling crossover was so weak. But Gen 13's Fairchild in Superboy has been great. I'm hoping The Ravagers is a good series.

Posted by TheMess1428

@ZEELLO: They do advertise it. There are a few articles on random sites, including this one that tell about the creator changes but some were not advertised as much as others. And no, there isn't a list anywhere. Maybe I should make one in another blog.

Posted by ZEELLO

@TheMess1428 said:

@ZEELLO: I can do some research and give you some details within a couple days if you would like.

nah, I just thought there'd be a list or a page for it somewhere. Come to think of it, what's the point of a creator change if they're not going to advertise the fact there was a change?

''#9 was written and drawn by Rob Liefeld''

oh dear.

Posted by TheMess1428

@ZEELLO: I can do some research and give you some details within a couple days if you would like. But as an example, Deathstroke #1-8 were written by Kyle Higgins and drawn by Joe Bennett and #9 was written and drawn by Rob Liefeld. Now I loved the first 8 issues of Deathstroke. They were quite awesome and had a great story. Not enough people were buying it so they gave it a creator change just to sell more issues and perhaps create a better story or so they thought. #9, compared to the rest, sucked. It was an okay comic but it definitely sucked compared to the first 8 issues.

Posted by ZEELLO

@TheMess1428 said:

@ZEELLO: Well when they analyzed the reaction to the New 52 they looked at the sales. They pretty much decided to cancel the 6 bottom titles and then replace them with other titles that think people would like better. They also made creator changes on other books like Deathstroke, Grifter, and Hawkman. Some of the cancelled should have just gotten creator changes though.

Are creator changes a big deal? I'd be interested in seeing a list of New 52 books that got creator changes.

Posted by TheMess1428

@ZEELLO: Well when they analyzed the reaction to the New 52 they looked at the sales. They pretty much decided to cancel the 6 bottom titles and then replace them with other titles that think people would like better. They also made creator changes on other books like Deathstroke, Grifter, and Hawkman. Some of the cancelled should have just gotten creator changes though.

Posted by ZEELLO

@TheMess1428 said:

@ZEELLO: Well they replaced them so it is 52 again. lol

yea I mentally discounted the new ones for some reason. I should look them up, but I think I am naturally more interested in the first wave. After all, we know this of the other 46 -- they were at least good enough not to get cancelled right away. :p

Posted by TheMess1428

@ZEELLO: Well they replaced them so it is 52 again. lol

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