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Edited by sora_thekey

@razzatazz: Wow... and here I'm looking for a way to excuse the title.. That's dumb.

Posted by RazzaTazz

@sora_thekey: No that I can recall, it was a pretty forgettable issue though I think

Posted by sora_thekey

@razzatazz: No Nazis but were there any parallels to what the Nazi did?

Posted by RazzaTazz

@sora_thekey: No, there were no nazis in this story (cosmic nazis?)

Posted by sora_thekey

Could it be that there will be a parallel to the Nazis in the story?

Posted by Kairan1979

The other incorrect X-Men title is Decimation.
 

Decimation was a form of military disciplinr used by officers in the Roman Army to punish mutinous or cowardly soldiers.
A unit selected for punishment by decimation was divided into groups of ten; each group drew lots  and the soldier on whom the lot fell was executed by his nine comrades, often by stoning or clubbing.

So the title is wrong twice. Not 10% of mutants were depowered, but 90%.
What is worse, using the term Decimation implied that the mutants deserved being depowered. Only mutant-hating groups can believe that (but giving the treatment of the mutants in Marvel universe, I'm starting to suspect that the authors are secretly the members of Sapien League).
Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

Eh, in truth I'd have to respectfully disagree. It would only be inappropriate to those who actually know their film/propaganda history to realize that that title of Green Lantern shares the same title as one of the Third Reich's most successful films. And even if people were aware of it, it is still only a matter of context. For the Reich it was a message of giving courage to Hitler's message in Mein Kampf put into practice, but here it is showing what the center of a Green Lantern's willpower is. Hardly inappropriate I would think considering there are other titles for stories and issues that have other contexts that can be just as controversial. What about X-Men's story arc Manifest Destiny? Yes, in comics we know what that story is and what it was about. But for those who don't know their history, manifest destiny was also a term of the mid-19th century United States used to describe how it was America's destiny to spread its influence from one shore to another, in effect giving the country the green light to take on ventures such as the Oregon Territory border dispute, the War with Mexico, and countless wars of attrition against Native Americans. And yet nobody, at least to my knowledge, has never raised a fuss yet about the aptly named X-Men story arc with regard to that term. You do make some thought provoking points though nevertheless. I'm just of the opinion that I can't really see the inappropriateness of that story title considering its a contextual issue and is one of historical relativity. And in the end, I'll conclude by saying that I'm almost 90% certain that almost no comic fans out there even know about the Nazi propaganda movie, so it wouldn't matter on the appropriateness of the title one way or another.

Posted by Macest128

@darth_brendroid said:

Well hey, Lion King referenced Triumph of the Will and Riefenstahl's filming techniques from Olympia are used in a lot of sports coverage today. 'Triumph of the Will' doesn't have to be associated with Nazi's - the VW car was Hitler's little project and we're fine driving those. I don't see any problem in GL referring to it, especially since it makes sense in context.

And I studied Leni and have my own views on her, but calling 'Triumph' a propaganda film might be a little strong. It's definitely a political film, but you could make the argument Leni was doing artsy stuff with her subject matter just to be artsy and clever and make something un-boring. Then the Nazi's lost the war and... she got the shortest straw of anyone.

you still owe a better match for bizzaro or venom!!!!!!! mister''i have a better match for those characters than you''

Posted by Stuka69

@RazzaTazz said:

@spaceboy: @Stuka69: There seem to be three groups of people here 1. Have never heard of Triumph of the Will 2. Have heard of it and know it is a propaganda film 3. Have studied it and know that it was artistically made. I never said it was not artistically made, I didn't claim that Riefenstahl made it because she agreed with the Nazi cause, but it is undoubtedly a propaganda film, and some words or phrases are somewhat charged when it comes to the issue. Look at the word appeasement ... it has a very specific meaning and nothing which is offensive, but mention this word to someone who knows anything about history and they think of Neville Chamberlain's actions, which many regarded as ill planned and cowardly, which gave Germany a huge boost in resources before entering the war. Appeasement thus is a word with a lot of negative associations. I am not saying that the phrase cannot be rehabilitated as languages evolve over time, but I don't think the rehabilitation will come as from being a throwaway title of a comic book that even a lot of comic fans won't read.

Hey, don´t drag poor old Neville to this mess, the title was "Triumph of The Will", not "Peace In Our Time". Sorry, just joking...could not resist...great post thou...

Posted by Stuka69

@lykopis said:

@Stuka69 said:

@lykopis said:

@Stuka69 said:

@RazzaTazz: If the story does not have aryan supermen taking care of jews (or doing mass gymnastics) it is not offensive or inappropriate at all. "Triumph of the will" is widely used english phrase. Duh. Are you really thinking that this comic book is some kind of homage to the frigging nazis? I sense too much misplaced political correctness here...

It's called google. Then read. And learn. :) It's a great thing to do.

I did. But still nothing about Green Lanterns and Nazis together. And I´ll say this again since you had hard time to understand it the first time; if there are no straight references to the Third Reich, or if they are very vague (such as hints of totalitarianism regarding Sinestro) there is nothing inappropriate of the usage of phrase "Triumph of the will". And again, do you find any kind of pro-nazism in this comic book? If not, then it is not inappropriate in it.

And hey, maybe you should google words "inappropriate", "not the best title ever", "priming" and "usage of larger themes in storytelling", it is great thing, and a learning experience, to actually know what you are really talking about instead just thinking that you do. :)

I apologize - re-reading my post, it clearly looked trite and dismissive. It was more a reflection of the general populace at large and not targeted towards you specifically. I appreciate you taking the time to respond so as to understand your point further. Your take that the phrase "Triumph Of Will" fails to draw up the horrors of that time in our world history in tandem with this comic book, you mean to say that its an invalid point to make. But it for us to make that connection in hearing the phrase (those that know of it). But maybe what you state can be taken in a positive light, in that we can reclaim those words into our language without the association the OP refers to. My opinion is that I hope it is/will be possible without a willful ignoring of the past.

Thanks, no harm done. If only the interwebs had more people like you. And thank you for clarifying your own point. I don´t really have anything more to add to this matter other than guess that we can all agree that artists who use nazi references should be well versed in subject matter and good at what they do, otherwise the result can be...not so good.

Posted by ithinkitwasyou

@RazzaTazz: I love your posts. (Applause)

Posted by darth_brendroid

@Larkin1388: VW (meaning 'Volks Wagon') was a Nazi initiative so that the 'Volk' (or ordinary German person) could have an affordable, dependable car (IIRC). It started under a different name though *shrug*

I think it's mostly seen as propaganda after the fact though. Kinda like how the German's wouldn't let Tarantino get away with putting a swatiska on his posters for Inglourious Basterds lol because it would be Nazi iconography in an advertisement or something.

It's fair though to pull it out and question why the issue was titled 'Triumph of the Will'. I want to see the next issue call itself 'A New Hope' or something now :D

Posted by spaceboy

This we can agree on.

Posted by TheCrowbar

Serious note:
 
I think RazzaTazz means it's poor writing just to use the title for shock value not that it's wrong to use it at all. But it ought to be someone related to the term.

Edited by RazzaTazz
@spaceboy: I am not advocating restricting speech, but naming this that title gave virtually no extra meaning to the issue.  Words do have different meanings and power at different times.  I was mostly surprised to see the name of a nazi propaganda film on my profile page (I think I mentioned that previously though)
Posted by spaceboy
@RazzaTazz said:
but it is undoubtedly a propaganda film, and some words or phrases are somewhat charged when it comes to the issue.  Look at the word appeasement ... it has a very specific meaning and nothing which is offensive,(...) Appeasement thus is a word with a lot of negative associations.  I am not saying that the phrase cannot be rehabilitated as languages evolve over time, but I don't think the rehabilitation will come as from being a throwaway title of a comic book that even a lot of comic fans won't read.  
So we are supposed to restrict our vocabulary?  
Many expressions and words from this era are now used in a whole new context. Whether this is  good is a whole different discussion.
I would have agreed with you if Green Lantern would have been the first piece of fiction that draws from Triumph of the Will, but it's just one of many.  
 
I still think it's great that you point out these things,though.
Posted by inferiorego

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@inferiorego said:

Triumph of the Will is an amazing piece of cinema. While the subject matter may be hard to stomach. The film itself is amazing to watch. It was shot amazingly well.

Thanks Documentary 101 class at Columbia College Chicago!

I am assuming it was amazing amazing amazing?

It was ok.

I only know one adjective... amazing.

Staff
Posted by .Mistress Redhead.

@inferiorego said:

Triumph of the Will is an amazing piece of cinema. While the subject matter may be hard to stomach. The film itself is amazing to watch. It was shot amazingly well.

Thanks Documentary 101 class at Columbia College Chicago!

I am assuming it was amazing amazing amazing?

Posted by inferiorego

Triumph of the Will is an amazing piece of cinema. While the subject matter may be hard to stomach. The film itself is amazing to watch. It was shot amazingly well.

Thanks Documentary 101 class at Columbia College Chicago!

Staff
Posted by RazzaTazz
@spaceboy@Stuka69:  
 
There seem to be three groups of people here 
 
1.  Have never heard of Triumph of the Will 
2.  Have heard of it and know it is a propaganda film 
3.  Have studied it and know that it was artistically made.  
 
I never said it was not artistically made, I didn't claim that Riefenstahl made it because she agreed with the Nazi cause, but it is undoubtedly a propaganda film, and some words or phrases are somewhat charged when it comes to the issue.  Look at the word appeasement ... it has a very specific meaning and nothing which is offensive, but mention this word to someone who knows anything about history and they think of Neville Chamberlain's actions, which many regarded as ill planned and cowardly, which gave Germany a huge boost in resources before entering the war.  Appeasement thus is a word with a lot of negative associations.  I am not saying that the phrase cannot be rehabilitated as languages evolve over time, but I don't think the rehabilitation will come as from being a throwaway title of a comic book that even a lot of comic fans won't read.  
Posted by spaceboy

 "Triumph of the will" might be a propaganda flick but the title itself is an allusion to Nietzsches "Willen zur Macht/ Will to power" concept.  
Many movies were influenced by it. Among them Star Wars, Lord of the Ring and Citizien Kane.
But I guess if you want to be offended you will always find something.

Posted by Stuka69

@lykopis said:

@Stuka69 said:

@RazzaTazz: If the story does not have aryan supermen taking care of jews (or doing mass gymnastics) it is not offensive or inappropriate at all. "Triumph of the will" is widely used english phrase. Duh. Are you really thinking that this comic book is some kind of homage to the frigging nazis? I sense too much misplaced political correctness here...

It's called google. Then read. And learn. :) It's a great thing to do.

I did. But still nothing about Green Lanterns and Nazis together. And I´ll say this again since you had hard time to understand it the first time; if there are no straight references to the Third Reich, or if they are very vague (such as hints of totalitarianism regarding Sinestro) there is nothing inappropriate of the usage of phrase "Triumph of the will". And again, do you find any kind of pro-nazism in this comic book? If not, then it is not inappropriate in it.

And hey, maybe you should google words "inappropriate", "not the best title ever", "priming" and "usage of larger themes in storytelling", it is great thing, and a learning experience, to actually know what you are really talking about instead just thinking that you do. :)

Posted by Larkin1388

@darth_brendroid: I did not know the VW car was HItlers project. Hmm. You learn something new everyday I guess.

Posted by .Mistress Redhead.

@ReVamp: Makes sense... and on that note we should stop derailing the thread :P

Posted by ReVamp
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp: OH OH Look I am not following you.. now I am.. even bigger present!

Too bad, I saw that you were following me before I saw the comment. Ding Ding. :P

HAH curses! I had to turn that back on. I had it off while I was a mod as you would get a follow every time a new account was made, now I can actually see who follows me!

Yeah, I can imagine that, it must suck really hard. First thing I did when I created my account was to unfollow everyone except Tony and Babs, the latter of which I eventually unfollowed too.

You unfollowed Babs?

I'd make a woman joke here, but people might actually find it offensive :P. Truth be told, I'm planning to unfollow G-Man too, I just don't see a reason why I benefit from following them you know? The reason I'm still following G-Man is because I take a greater interest in his articles, but I have nothing against Babs, she seems like a pretty interesting person and I really enjoy her opinons, since I disagree with them so much (in a good way). =)
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Posted by TheCrowbar

You know with how the Oan Guardians are acting... Nazi might not be too far off for them soon(I just Godwin'd the Guardians! Come at me bro)

Posted by .Mistress Redhead.

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp: OH OH Look I am not following you.. now I am.. even bigger present!

Too bad, I saw that you were following me before I saw the comment. Ding Ding. :P

HAH curses! I had to turn that back on. I had it off while I was a mod as you would get a follow every time a new account was made, now I can actually see who follows me!

Yeah, I can imagine that, it must suck really hard. First thing I did when I created my account was to unfollow everyone except Tony and Babs, the latter of which I eventually unfollowed too.

You unfollowed Babs?

Posted by ReVamp
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp: OH OH Look I am not following you.. now I am.. even bigger present!

Too bad, I saw that you were following me before I saw the comment. Ding Ding. :P

HAH curses! I had to turn that back on. I had it off while I was a mod as you would get a follow every time a new account was made, now I can actually see who follows me!

Yeah, I can imagine that, it must suck really hard. First thing I did when I created my account was to unfollow everyone except Tony and Babs, the latter of which I eventually unfollowed too.
Online
Posted by .Mistress Redhead.

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp: OH OH Look I am not following you.. now I am.. even bigger present!

Too bad, I saw that you were following me before I saw the comment. Ding Ding. :P

HAH curses! I had to turn that back on. I had it off while I was a mod as you would get a follow every time a new account was made, now I can actually see who follows me!

Posted by ReVamp
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp: OH OH Look I am not following you.. now I am.. even bigger present!

Too bad, I saw that you were following me before I saw the comment. Ding Ding. :P
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Posted by .Mistress Redhead.

@ReVamp: OH OH Look I am not following you.. now I am.. even bigger present!

Posted by ReVamp
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

*chuckle*

I like you ;)

Awwww, does that mean I get a cookie? I like Cookies? If it serves any consolation you're getting +15 cool points for having Barbara as an AV.

well for the compliment you get 10000000 cookies

10 Mill? Psssh, Cheap ass. That'd barely keep me entertained for an hour. Hehe :P

I thought that was more than 10 mill... I failed maths...

Ah, well, I hated maths too. But as they say, tis the intent that counts, thus y'are forgiven.
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Posted by .Mistress Redhead.

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

*chuckle*

I like you ;)

Awwww, does that mean I get a cookie? I like Cookies? If it serves any consolation you're getting +15 cool points for having Barbara as an AV.

well for the compliment you get 10000000 cookies

10 Mill? Psssh, Cheap ass. That'd barely keep me entertained for an hour. Hehe :P

I thought that was more than 10 mill... I failed maths...

Posted by ReVamp
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

*chuckle*

I like you ;)

Awwww, does that mean I get a cookie? I like Cookies? If it serves any consolation you're getting +15 cool points for having Barbara as an AV.

well for the compliment you get 10000000 cookies

10 Mill? Psssh, Cheap ass. That'd barely keep me entertained for an hour. Hehe :P
Online
Posted by .Mistress Redhead.

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

*chuckle*

I like you ;)

Awwww, does that mean I get a cookie? I like Cookies? If it serves any consolation you're getting +15 cool points for having Barbara as an AV.

well for the compliment you get 10000000 cookies

Posted by ReVamp
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

*chuckle*

I like you ;)

Awwww, does that mean I get a cookie? I like Cookies? If it serves any consolation you're getting +15 cool points for having Barbara as an AV.
Online
Posted by fodigg

I never would've caught this, and I'm giving the creators the benefit of the doubt that they just didn't catch it either.

Posted by .Mistress Redhead.

@ReVamp said:

@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp: Pfft. DC> Marvel in all things witty and intelligent :P

Never said it wasn't. That Statement is 100% true. Unfortunately, its like saying, "A Cat is stronger than a mouse". Problem is... they both f**ked if a tiger shows up, y'know what I mean? Or have I lose you in the analogy? :P

*chuckle*

I like you ;)

Posted by gravitypress

@joshmightbe said:

You Win! lol

Posted by aztek_the_lost

I'm going to have to agree with Razz here and that this was done intentionally or at least, despite the writer knowing what people would associate it with, almost every comic title that isn't the name of an arc or something is stolen from somewhere else and it seems unlikely that it's just a loooooong string of coincidences

if you search Triumph of the Will in Google, you get a bunch of stuff about the propaganda film

also, how can it not be intentional? Sinestro is Hitler and Triumph of the Will is not something an English-speaking individual would come up with for the title of something, it has the flow of broken English to it

Moderator
Posted by RainEffect
@joshmightbe said:
I don't know what's more epic? The Giant Size Man Thing or the GLOB STRIKES AGAIN!
Posted by Stuka69

@RazzaTazz: If the story does not have aryan supermen taking care of jews (or doing mass gymnastics) it is not offensive or inappropriate at all. "Triumph of the will" is widely used english phrase. Duh. Are you really thinking that this comic book is some kind of homage to the frigging nazis? I sense too much misplaced political correctness here...

Posted by darth_brendroid

Well hey, Lion King referenced Triumph of the Will and Riefenstahl's filming techniques from Olympia are used in a lot of sports coverage today. 'Triumph of the Will' doesn't have to be associated with Nazi's - the VW car was Hitler's little project and we're fine driving those. I don't see any problem in GL referring to it, especially since it makes sense in context.

And I studied Leni and have my own views on her, but calling 'Triumph' a propaganda film might be a little strong. It's definitely a political film, but you could make the argument Leni was doing artsy stuff with her subject matter just to be artsy and clever and make something un-boring. Then the Nazi's lost the war and... she got the shortest straw of anyone.

Posted by Dracade102
 
 
39 cents for a comic book in the 40's?? Those Nazis were a bunch of crooks.
Edited by ReVamp
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@ReVamp: Pfft. DC> Marvel in all things witty and intelligent :P

Never said it wasn't. That Statement is 100% true. Unfortunately, its like saying, "A Cat is stronger than a mouse". Problem is... they both f**ked if a tiger shows up, y'know what I mean? Or have I lose you in the analogy? :P
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Posted by .Mistress Redhead.

@ReVamp: Pfft. DC> Marvel in all things witty and intelligent :P

Posted by ReVamp
@RazzaTazz said:
@ReVamp: Well for me personally I don't even read the titles and wouldn't notice but they show up on my profile page after editing them.  I was kind of surprised to see the name of a nazi propaganda film on the profile page last night though
Yeah, I understand, but the thing is I think 95% of the people that read that book might not even know what its about. Maybe I'm exaggerating figures, but I really don't know though...
@.Mistress Redhead. said:

@cattlebattle said:

Wow...that is well, inappropriate

Another great post by Razz

For reference this the film

Could it be deliberate though?

I mean the Corps all represent different "emotions or feelings" the Nazi's were all about controlling the world and cleansing it of impurities... so it may actually be deliberate.. and clever IMO


That's a kickass idea, only one problem though. I think you might be giving DC a bit too much credit :-P
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