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Posted by darth_brendroid

@Larkin1388: VW (meaning 'Volks Wagon') was a Nazi initiative so that the 'Volk' (or ordinary German person) could have an affordable, dependable car (IIRC). It started under a different name though *shrug*

I think it's mostly seen as propaganda after the fact though. Kinda like how the German's wouldn't let Tarantino get away with putting a swatiska on his posters for Inglourious Basterds lol because it would be Nazi iconography in an advertisement or something.

It's fair though to pull it out and question why the issue was titled 'Triumph of the Will'. I want to see the next issue call itself 'A New Hope' or something now :D

Posted by ithinkitwasyou

@RazzaTazz: I love your posts. (Applause)

Posted by Stuka69

@lykopis said:

@Stuka69 said:

@lykopis said:

@Stuka69 said:

@RazzaTazz: If the story does not have aryan supermen taking care of jews (or doing mass gymnastics) it is not offensive or inappropriate at all. "Triumph of the will" is widely used english phrase. Duh. Are you really thinking that this comic book is some kind of homage to the frigging nazis? I sense too much misplaced political correctness here...

It's called google. Then read. And learn. :) It's a great thing to do.

I did. But still nothing about Green Lanterns and Nazis together. And I´ll say this again since you had hard time to understand it the first time; if there are no straight references to the Third Reich, or if they are very vague (such as hints of totalitarianism regarding Sinestro) there is nothing inappropriate of the usage of phrase "Triumph of the will". And again, do you find any kind of pro-nazism in this comic book? If not, then it is not inappropriate in it.

And hey, maybe you should google words "inappropriate", "not the best title ever", "priming" and "usage of larger themes in storytelling", it is great thing, and a learning experience, to actually know what you are really talking about instead just thinking that you do. :)

I apologize - re-reading my post, it clearly looked trite and dismissive. It was more a reflection of the general populace at large and not targeted towards you specifically. I appreciate you taking the time to respond so as to understand your point further. Your take that the phrase "Triumph Of Will" fails to draw up the horrors of that time in our world history in tandem with this comic book, you mean to say that its an invalid point to make. But it for us to make that connection in hearing the phrase (those that know of it). But maybe what you state can be taken in a positive light, in that we can reclaim those words into our language without the association the OP refers to. My opinion is that I hope it is/will be possible without a willful ignoring of the past.

Thanks, no harm done. If only the interwebs had more people like you. And thank you for clarifying your own point. I don´t really have anything more to add to this matter other than guess that we can all agree that artists who use nazi references should be well versed in subject matter and good at what they do, otherwise the result can be...not so good.

Posted by Stuka69

@RazzaTazz said:

@spaceboy: @Stuka69: There seem to be three groups of people here 1. Have never heard of Triumph of the Will 2. Have heard of it and know it is a propaganda film 3. Have studied it and know that it was artistically made. I never said it was not artistically made, I didn't claim that Riefenstahl made it because she agreed with the Nazi cause, but it is undoubtedly a propaganda film, and some words or phrases are somewhat charged when it comes to the issue. Look at the word appeasement ... it has a very specific meaning and nothing which is offensive, but mention this word to someone who knows anything about history and they think of Neville Chamberlain's actions, which many regarded as ill planned and cowardly, which gave Germany a huge boost in resources before entering the war. Appeasement thus is a word with a lot of negative associations. I am not saying that the phrase cannot be rehabilitated as languages evolve over time, but I don't think the rehabilitation will come as from being a throwaway title of a comic book that even a lot of comic fans won't read.

Hey, don´t drag poor old Neville to this mess, the title was "Triumph of The Will", not "Peace In Our Time". Sorry, just joking...could not resist...great post thou...

Posted by Macest128

@darth_brendroid said:

Well hey, Lion King referenced Triumph of the Will and Riefenstahl's filming techniques from Olympia are used in a lot of sports coverage today. 'Triumph of the Will' doesn't have to be associated with Nazi's - the VW car was Hitler's little project and we're fine driving those. I don't see any problem in GL referring to it, especially since it makes sense in context.

And I studied Leni and have my own views on her, but calling 'Triumph' a propaganda film might be a little strong. It's definitely a political film, but you could make the argument Leni was doing artsy stuff with her subject matter just to be artsy and clever and make something un-boring. Then the Nazi's lost the war and... she got the shortest straw of anyone.

you still owe a better match for bizzaro or venom!!!!!!! mister''i have a better match for those characters than you''

Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus

Eh, in truth I'd have to respectfully disagree. It would only be inappropriate to those who actually know their film/propaganda history to realize that that title of Green Lantern shares the same title as one of the Third Reich's most successful films. And even if people were aware of it, it is still only a matter of context. For the Reich it was a message of giving courage to Hitler's message in Mein Kampf put into practice, but here it is showing what the center of a Green Lantern's willpower is. Hardly inappropriate I would think considering there are other titles for stories and issues that have other contexts that can be just as controversial. What about X-Men's story arc Manifest Destiny? Yes, in comics we know what that story is and what it was about. But for those who don't know their history, manifest destiny was also a term of the mid-19th century United States used to describe how it was America's destiny to spread its influence from one shore to another, in effect giving the country the green light to take on ventures such as the Oregon Territory border dispute, the War with Mexico, and countless wars of attrition against Native Americans. And yet nobody, at least to my knowledge, has never raised a fuss yet about the aptly named X-Men story arc with regard to that term. You do make some thought provoking points though nevertheless. I'm just of the opinion that I can't really see the inappropriateness of that story title considering its a contextual issue and is one of historical relativity. And in the end, I'll conclude by saying that I'm almost 90% certain that almost no comic fans out there even know about the Nazi propaganda movie, so it wouldn't matter on the appropriateness of the title one way or another.

Posted by Kairan1979

The other incorrect X-Men title is Decimation.
 

Decimation was a form of military disciplinr used by officers in the Roman Army to punish mutinous or cowardly soldiers.
A unit selected for punishment by decimation was divided into groups of ten; each group drew lots  and the soldier on whom the lot fell was executed by his nine comrades, often by stoning or clubbing.

So the title is wrong twice. Not 10% of mutants were depowered, but 90%.
What is worse, using the term Decimation implied that the mutants deserved being depowered. Only mutant-hating groups can believe that (but giving the treatment of the mutants in Marvel universe, I'm starting to suspect that the authors are secretly the members of Sapien League).
Posted by sora_thekey

Could it be that there will be a parallel to the Nazis in the story?

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Posted by RazzaTazz

@sora_thekey: No, there were no nazis in this story (cosmic nazis?)

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Posted by sora_thekey

@razzatazz: No Nazis but were there any parallels to what the Nazi did?

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Posted by RazzaTazz

@sora_thekey: No that I can recall, it was a pretty forgettable issue though I think

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Edited by sora_thekey

@razzatazz: Wow... and here I'm looking for a way to excuse the title.. That's dumb.

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