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Edited by Dratini1331

Nice write up. I just have one issue, I hate it when people bring up the Meta-Cooler bit for instant Transmission. The way it was portrayed in that particular movie is entirely wrong to me. They make it seem like it equates to infinite super-speed, when it's actually teleportation. They shouldn't be fighting each other while using the move, but rather in the time between movements. Thoughts?

Posted by LimpoyzLoan

@dratini1331: Eh, I didn't write the movie, but yeah, I see what you're saying. It's a useful technique, though.

But as displayed in Cell and Buu, if Goku has to face an opponent who is much faster than him, he will use IT no matter what. It's a useful technique, and the best part about it is that it doesn't waste energy at all. So yeah, if Superman is faster than him (Which he is discounting GT) then Goku will likely use instant transmission in this fight.

Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

Superman still wins. He's stronger faster more powerful has more stamina and more he's more durable end of story.

Posted by LimpoyzLoan
Edited by ULTRAstarkiller

Ya that deathbattle was dumb. They fused every version of Superman past 85 into one Supes. Anyone can see Goku is stronger faster and tougher than Superman.Anyone

Posted by joshmightbe

I thought we were done with this s**t 2 months ago. Who cares what some random guys on the internet think would happen? It wasn't a cannon event and it was made by fans and doesn't even slightly matter to anyone.

Edited by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

@ultrastarkiller: They only used Post Crisis. plus the majority of people know Superman is faster and stronger. Superman is faster than light nearly faster than the speed of thought and is strong enough too tug around hundred's of planet's.

@limpoyzloan: I think 6/10 go to Supes while Goku takes 4/10. Post Crisis Superman would beat Goku. Pre Crisis Superman would obliterate Goku and New 52 Superman would probably stalemate.

Posted by LimpoyzLoan

@joshmightbe: PSSHHH NAH MAN WE GOTTA TALK ABOUT THIS MORE

Posted by LimpoyzLoan
Posted by MysteriousUsername

@joshmightbe: PSSHHH NAH MAN WE GOTTA TALK ABOUT THIS MORE

Are you really allowed to be sarcastic about that when you really are dragging this argument's corpse back onto the street?

Posted by joshmightbe

@limpoyzloan: I'm willing to bet that by now every angle has been covered since for a solid month after it happened there was like 60 threads a day about it in either support or opposition to the results.

Edited by LimpoyzLoan

@mysterioususername: What am I dragging exactly? I'm not even debating Goku vs Superman, I'm just proving Death Battle wrong. It's not like I'm saying:

"HEY ASSH*LES GOKU WINS AGAINST SUPERGAY ALL DAY LONG LOLOLOLLOLOOLO"

Posted by ULTRAstarkiller
Posted by MysteriousUsername

@limpoyzloan: You're dragging out the "Death battle was wrong about Superman and Goku!" argument.

You could have picked literally any other video and this thread wouldn't have come across as so terrible stale and overdone.

Posted by LimpoyzLoan

@mysterioususername: Yeah, and I stated that I wanted to get this one out of the way because it's the most talked about. I'm not just doing this one, I'm doing other ones for other Death Battles.

Posted by Abhi471990

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: can you show me scans were he had punched or kicked at invisible or equal to flash speed. and plz don't show the scans were he is hovering or flying at light speed. because he can hover or fly at light speed. i just want to confirme that he can punch or kick or move his body part at light speed(just want to confirm)

Posted by MysteriousUsername

@limpoyzloan: Should have started with one people don't constantly talk about. :|

Posted by LimpoyzLoan
Posted by LimpoyzLoan

@mysterioususername: Eh, you got a point. Just wanted to get this one out of the way for the sake of not having to talk about it again.

Edited by ArticulateT

While well written, I think it goes without saying that Death Battle's pseudo-science is far from exemplary. It's hardly consistent, after all.

I think the main problem is that both of these characters come from material in which their abilities served the needs of the story. As with most Manga and Anime, Dragon Ball Z's feats of speed, strength and power could be seen as somewhat over-the-top for the sake of artistic style and thematic value. Names like God, Demon, Special, Super and Ultra are all used for the sake of denoting things of certain power and alignment and nothing more.

Comics, on the other hand, have powers and abilities that vary wildly depending on the writer or the impact of the story. While Superman might have been knocked out by a Supernova, there are times where he has been injured/killed/beaten down with much weaker attacks, and shrugged off far greater ones without so much as a bruise.

Since neither source material is capable of having a truly solid basis for what each character is capable of, let alone a scientific one, it's very hard to accurately pick a winner.

As a note on Lifting Strength isn't Striking power, I can agree. Just because you can lift a truck, doesn't mean you hit as hard as a truck. How fast your body can move determines your striking potential, as well as where and how you strike. However, it can be said that lifting Strength can determine durability, as your body has to be able to withstand the weight of an object in order to lift it. Using New 52 Superman as an example, he has been shown to be able to lift the weight of the Earth, so his body must be capable of withstanding that much force at least, otherwise he'd be squished. Then, going back to my previous statement, it has been seen that he has been hurt/cut/beaten up by much less, so it's truly difficult to define.

So... yeah. It's next to impossible to pick a winner and 'prove' it, which would be a huge boon, as fans would sit down and discuss it much to their amusement, but unfortunately, the debate has generated such bile between fans, it's hard to say it's a well-discussed topic anymore.

I'll keep reading up on this series as I find it entertaining. As a final note, while I agree with the result of this battle, and to some degree next week's battle, the method by which Death battle got to it was far from 'great'.

Posted by LimpoyzLoan

@articulatet: Couldn't agree more. Thanks for the feedback.

Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse

OH NO, OH GOD NO.

WE'RE DISCUSSING THIS AGAIN?!?!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Edited by SheenLantern

Edited by LimpoyzLoan

@rulerofthisuniverse: We're not discussing the battle, just what SA did wrong in the battle. Believe me, I don't want a big debate in here either.

Edited by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

@ultrastarkiller: which had post crisis Superman but they included everything of Goku.

Posted by Hazlenaut

I am trying to make sense out of nonsense. Why do I even try? Maybe I feel I can enlighten you. Yeah this is lost cause. Let us cut to chase with the philosophy

What do you get with a man who can break any limit against a man with no limits in the first place. Only one still has limits to give it all

Here is the matter that grinds you. You feel that with will power that he could beat anything Shonen Jump taught you. Tenacity can go only so far and may not be the best option especially when there are other ways to do it. Tenacity against reason is stubbornness.

Goku needs to drink, eat, sleep and breath but Superman does not. Goku can go long while without air but he still needs it. Goku will hold back for a challenge but Superman does not and rather get the job done quick so he can continue saving lives. If you take away the barrier of no killing policy he will lose his restraint of pulling punches. Maybe it will be different if it was Trunks but we talk about that later.

Posted by LimpoyzLoan
Posted by ULTRAstarkiller

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: The anime and the Manga are almost the same except fillers, but comic books and shows are almost never the same.

But I don't think they should of included GT, but even when they did they messed up lol.

Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

@ultrastarkiller: The TV shows are usually weaker version's so it's not that helpful and the shows are usually pretty close to the comics except for the dumbed down power levels.

@abhi471990:

Mongul and the Imperiex Probe couldn't even react or fight back against Superman because he was moving to fast for them.

Posted by Lvenger

Posted by ULTRAstarkiller
Posted by LimpoyzLoan
Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

@ultrastarkiller: Not really since it is a representation of the character he was still the same just less powerful in the shows. as long as it was Post Crisis Superman it was fine which it was they stuck to that incarnation and never used anything from Pre Crisis or New 52.

Posted by ULTRAstarkiller
Edited by Lvenger

@limpoyzloan: YOU'VE DOOMED US ALL TO THE FIREPITS OF APOCALYPSE BY RESURRRECTING THIS TOPIC! AAAAGHHHH! :P

On topic, this is a nice analysis of the flaws of Death Battle. Have you seen Kakarot88's blog on it? It's an incredible piece of work that one is.

Posted by LimpoyzLoan

@lvenger: I have, actually. I mostly agree with everything he's saying, aside from Goku's speed, and the analysis on the Super Dragon Fist's power. Otherwise, it's a fine blog.

Edited by heymanjack

@ultrastarkiller said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642: But they still fused it into one superman man though......I could be wrong.....but I don't think so

They said they would be using all sources of media for both characters.

Question. If Goku can easily tank planet bursting attacks, why is he scared so much about this planet bursting attack? He can't deflect it, so tank it then.

Posted by LimpoyzLoan

@heymanjack: Obviously because he's Earth's defender and he doesn't want it blown up. Furthermore, Gohan and Piccolo were knocked out and couldn't put up a ki defense to defend against the Earth blowing up. This is shown when Goku blocks Trunks' attack with his finger. Plus, that attack was too fast for him for him to tank or dodge.

Posted by russellmania77

Batman would totally beat superman... Oh wrong thread, my bad

Edited by Doomnaut

Thor wins.

Posted by heymanjack

@limpoyzloan: Alright. I don't know about it being too fast for goku, I thought he was shown at FTL speeds? Plus he was able to save people at the next page so he could've deflected that attack. + He was able to escape explosions at point blank too during the Frieza arc at base form as I recall.

I dunno man, It seems that Goku can't tank planet bursting attacks, atleast during the buu saga. Or he is really capable and this is some bad writing.

Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

@doomnaut: Great match up.....but Superman still beats Thor.

Edited by Wolverine08
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Edited by LimpoyzLoan

@heymanjack: Goku is not FTL, at least not from what we know. And he was only able to save them due to Kaio's instant transmission. He had trouble outrunning the thing as it was. That's how it's proven to be faster. Not to mention the fact that it wasn't just a simple planet busting blast, it could have been much more powerful than that. Same with Cell. When Goku blasted him away (Planet busting kamehameha) Cell had his torso blown off. However, Cell has Frieza's durability cells (Who tanked a planet exploding.) But there's no mention that it was just a planet busting attack. It had to be much more than that. Same goes for Buu's blast.

Edited by LimpoyzLoan
Edited by Doomnaut
Edited by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

@wolverine08: It's damn close match up don't get me wrong one for the ages but I think Superman's speed advantage will be too much for Thor.

Posted by LimpoyzLoan
Posted by Wolverine08

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642:

That's the thing. Both fighters have advantages. Thor has his hammer and magical attacks, while Supes has a speed advantage. It's really one of the few 50/50 kind of battles I've seen between Marvel and DC powerhouses.

Online
Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

@limpoyzloan: with the hammer his movement speed Thor is FTL but he doesn't have fast combat speed not that he's slow but he isn't fast either he can't blitz you. Superman is nearly as fast as the speed of thought and his combat speed is near light speed.

@wolverine08: The Magic means nothing. Superman has one shotted the entire Justice League which included Shazam and Wonder Woman easily when he was pissed. Thor is slightly more powerful while Superman is slightly stronger but a lot faster. they seem to have pretty even durability and stamina. it is one of the most even match ups between power houses.

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