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Posted by johnkmccubbin91

Still doesn't make him right, as does killing Xavier justify bringing mutants back, as these people weren't dead, and some of them don't even want to be mutants. Also it wasn't Cyclops who brought Hope, and Scarlet Witch together, it was his actions which were unintended. Also it wasn't the Phoenix that brought back the mutants, it was the destruction of the Phoenix (with Hope and Scarlet Witch saying no more phoenix). Also it's not the him killing Xavier that bugs me, it's that he doesn't take responsibility (which actually put me off his character for a while following AvX, starting to like him again now). I also don't feel that Scarlet Witch should be forgotten about neither, as I kept asking why no one mentioned what she did prior. So in conclusion Cyclops may have been correct that brining the Phoenix Force would restore mutants, but in the wrong way. Also with there being no need for mutants (as I said some new ones will commit suicide as well just for being mutants), and was the killing worth it, as okay there are more mutants but they are once again prejudiced against. I was also only joking to start with as you said anything bar Cyclops lol : )

Edited by Cyclops4President

@johnkmccubbin91: well, Cyclops was NOT wrong. When Scarlett Witch said "no more mutants" and decimated the mutant population to less than 300 and then the mutant births stopped completely, it was Cyclops' understanding of the Phoenix Force to know that was the ONLY option to bring back the mutant race. In order for something to grow, sometimes things must die, that is just nature. It happens all the time here on earth. There are forests that can only survive if most of it actually burns down every once in a while. The burning releases the seeds and scatters them and provides nutrients to the soil in which the new trees and plants need to grow. This is the same thing with the Phoenix Force. Because of that cataclysmic event, Cyclops brought Hope TOGETHER with the Scarlet Witch as a BALANCE OF POWER to restore what nature had intended, which was the development of the X gene and the re-emergence of mutants again on the earth. Without Cyclops' strong vision and leadership, he wouldn't have had the influence to make sure enough of the mutants aided him long enough for the Phoenix to make it to Earth. Without him, the Avengers would have done a better job and had more time to deflect the PF away from Earth. Sure, once the PF merged with Scott, it was just a matter of time before it overtook his psyche as he was better suited to have the power, even better than a powerhouse like Emma, but no-one can really withstand the power of the Phoenix Force for too long before it needs to be casted out. That is the cycle with the PF. Everything is about cycle and balance, and only Scott was willing to do what it took to ensure mutants came back, and that meant there was going to be casualties, and unfortunately that was Prof. X. Scott killed one main guy and he is a monster. Scarlett Witch killed thousands or more when she said "no more mutants" either from them dying on the spot, or some committing suicide. Cyclops WAS RIGHT, the Avengers WERE wrong, and everything worked out the way it should minus one casualty (Prof X) and I am okay with that, he practically retired anyway, he wasn't in comics that much anymore. Sorry about the rant.

Edited by johnkmccubbin91

@cyclops4president: Try this then: Cyclops was wrong (joking, even though he was). I also felt the same about Aquaman prior, and yes it is.

Posted by Cyclops4President

@johnkmccubbin91: The only thing that could "get my goat" is something about Cyclops. I am open to learn and figure out whats what about other characters. I have learned a lot actually about a lot of DC characters that I just hadn't had much exposure to like John Constantine, Zatanna, Aquaman (I always thought he was a bit queer until the new 52), and even this new Indestructible Hulk. This is what this site is for correct?

Edited by johnkmccubbin91

@cyclops4president: Cool was just making sure as when I make wee debates on lists it's not to say that the other person's wrong, just to give across my view point, but it's cool that we're cool.

Posted by Cyclops4President

@johnkmccubbin91: hey, when you're right, you're right. I got no problem making what's right right.

Posted by johnkmccubbin91

@cyclops4president: No problem, though you didn't need to do it for me, I was just giving my view (which isn't necessarily right).

Posted by Cyclops4President

@johnkmccubbin91: Ok, after I did some "light" reading on the difference of the two, I have removed Iron Fist and replaced him with Zatanna. Thanks for the help.

Posted by johnkmccubbin91

@cyclops4president: Fair enough but I personally wouldn't quite class this as magic, as although it's got mystical elements, it's not the same as proper magic (as the other characters possess).

Edited by Cyclops4President

@johnkmccubbin91: Plunging his fists into the molten heart of the dragon Shou-Lao the Undying infused the dragon's superhuman energy into Rand; this along with training by Lei Kung the Thunderer gave Rand the power of the Iron Fist, allowing him to summon and focus his chi (or natural energy) and enhance his natural abilities to extraordinary levels. His strength, speed, stamina, durability, agility, reflexes and senses can all be greatly intensified, making his already formidable martial arts skills even more so.

The ultimate expression of this focus is the ability to concentrate his body's natural energies into his hand, manifesting as a supernatural glow around his clenched fist, making his fist "like unto a thing of iron". So concentrated, this "iron fist" can smash into its target with superhuman hardness and impact, while his hand becomes impervious to pain and injury. However, the feat of summoning the power required leaves Rand physically and mentally drained, unable to repeat the act for a time, as long as even an entire day in certain instances. Such an ability is described as "quasi-mystical".

Posted by johnkmccubbin91

@cyclops4president: I also thought I'd add after looking at your list again that I wouldn't really class Iron Fist as a magical character as it's inner strength that he uses through his chi (though there is a magical kingdom in some of his stories if I remember correctly).

Posted by johnkmccubbin91

@cyclops4president: Fair enough. As I said most of her appearances in JLD have been awesome, but the origin story of her and Constantine in JLD issue 0 was pretty amazing.

Posted by Cyclops4President

@johnkmccubbin91: i am originally from Missouri, "the show me state" so I have to be shown how amazing she is with my own eyes. I take your word for it, but before I put her on the list I have to see her do something impressive. You have any issues that support that?

Posted by johnkmccubbin91

@cyclops4president: Fair enough, and glad Constantine is. If you ever read the other issues of JLA prior to Trinity you'll most likely get to like Zatanna.

Edited by Cyclops4President

@johnkmccubbin91: So after reading through the Trinity War series, I edited this list to add John Constantine. He is a beast. I am sure Zatanna belongs on here too but I have very little knowledge of her and she has not impressed me yet in Trinity War the same way JC has.

Edited by Cyclops4President

@jya666: I have always liked Magik, and I am glad she has gotten some face time recently and is part of Scotts team. I also loved her as Phoenix 5

Posted by Jya666

Magik forever!!!!!!!

Edited by Cyclops4President

Hawkeye is overrated true. I like Green Arrow though. I am going to start reading an old DD tpb from your lists.

Posted by daredevil21134

Me too. I think that if you look at my pull list, I try to balance out street level stories with godlevel stories. I do consider the X-Men kind-of a street level story, because after M-Day, there were only 300 Mutants left, so that puts them at an obvious numerical disadvantage, and most of the great characters are not totally impervious to injury,(even wolverine). Like Cyclops, he is is physically a superior athlete, but not at the level of a DD, or Cap America, but he has this awesome long range weapon of mass destruction with his optic blast and some serious leadership skills, so these stories intrigue me more. Based off of your list recommendations of favorite story lines for DD @daredevil21134 I am going to start diving back into DD because I do favor him as a top 3 or 4 of my favorite Street Level heroes. I may either drop a book, or just add a DD book as part of my pull list. I am never going to like Hawkeye though.

I wouldn't ask you to collect Hawkeye anyways,I think he's solo is overrated trash but he is one of my favorites.I don't like the current DD title either but if you wanna try it go ahead butI recommend you go for old DD tpb's if you have the money.Yes Scott is awsome,I miss him being with Jean though

Online
Edited by Cyclops4President

Me too. I think that if you look at my pull list, I try to balance out street level stories with godlevel stories. I do consider the X-Men kind-of a street level story, because after M-Day, there were only 300 Mutants left, so that puts them at an obvious numerical disadvantage, and most of the great characters are not totally impervious to injury,(even wolverine). Like Cyclops, he is is physically a superior athlete, but not at the level of a DD, or Cap America, but he has this awesome long range weapon of mass destruction with his optic blast and some serious leadership skills, so these stories intrigue me more. Based off of your list recommendations of favorite story lines for DD @daredevil21134 I am going to start diving back into DD because I do favor him as a top 3 or 4 of my favorite Street Level heroes. I may either drop a book, or just add a DD book as part of my pull list. I am never going to like Hawkeye though.

Posted by daredevil21134

@daredevil21134: Sometimes it's nice to look at the lower level characters and realize how bada$$ they are. I mean, how cool really is black panther and ghost rider. It's hard to get much cooler. Everyone is all about the infinitely powered characters, but I prefer this level, the super powered but not Godlike, where's the fun in that?

I'm more of a street level guy

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Posted by Cyclops4President

@daredevil21134: Sometimes it's nice to look at the lower level characters and realize how bada$$ they are. I mean, how cool really is black panther and ghost rider. It's hard to get much cooler. Everyone is all about the infinitely powered characters, but I prefer this level, the super powered but not Godlike, where's the fun in that?

Posted by daredevil21134
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Posted by Cyclops4President

@daredevil21134: I thought he-Man and Lion-O would be some fan favorites to be on here

Posted by daredevil21134

Spawn,He-Man,Iron Fist,Lion O.All great.

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Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642
Posted by Cyclops4President
Posted by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

Where's Shazam :( glad to see Dr. Strange here though

Edited by johnkmccubbin91

Nice list, although I agree that I'd have had Zatanna on here, as well as John Constantine.

Posted by Cyclops4President

@raw_material: She was 11. It's touch to make these lists bc so many good characters get left out like Zatanna. But seriously, she would be 11 lol

Edited by Raw_Material

Great idea. Thor, Ghost Rider, Shazam & Iron Fist are some of the few magic users from your list that I like more than all the others up there. No Zatanna though?! Gotta have her on the list, she's a hottie!