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Edited by DeathpooltheT1000

Kal El could decide if he wanted to save the Kriptonians or not, he can decide if he want children or not, he can decide by himself if he wants to be Kriptonian or human or both, still he had a decision.

Zod learn to fly, because he is train to master this things in second, this is to show his militar nature against Superman nature of a farmboy, who fail at control this the first time he use it.

Seriously, from all the flaws movies hev you pick something like thi, there is aliens that can destroy buildings with one hit and this is unreallistic?

Avengers show you an alien invasion too, no one died, the alien never try to destroy any building and everybody survives, how in hell this could happen?, no consequences to their actions, without consequences there is no point in making things.

Its more unreallistic that any type of invasion cause no damage to the street and human life, here you can notice Zod wa triying to cause as much damage as posible, Zod knew how to fight, Superman dont so he could make this destruction in a fight because he was in control of the fight.

There was one survivor easter egg in the movie, one of the scape pod is empty, what other Kriptonian survivor we know and is part of the house of El?

She was the only connection they have to him, also they need information about humans, is not so hard to notice they where looking for something in her, also they knew about the ship in some way, as far we know it wasnt from Kal El mind.

Superman has killed Zod, i think he actually killed him twice in the comics, also Zod wanted to die, he lost all his mission on life, he had no destiny and reason to live, he cant kill Clark since he is all Kripton now, so he cant actually kill him or keep living, was a suicide by cop.

He mean about adapting in the human society, not in the nature, also Zod is design as a warrior race, the fact the air did little to them is because they are design to be harder and survive.

Superman is an alien, what the hell you think mankind is going to do to an alien?, fear him and like everything mankind fear, it will try to destroy it, Johnathan Kent was acting like a father, if your father dont care the goverment open you so they can see your organs, study you as a rat and those thing, your father sucks as father.

Because they changed status quo it means it suck, news flash Super heroes are about changing status quo.

As much as i wanted this, is time to let him go and move with our lives.

I know whew all this nostlagia i coming, i love him too and i cant belive he is gone, no one else in my heart is going to be Superman but him, but i dont let nostalgia blind me.

Because that what people wanted, becuse it would mean he is still here, but is time to let him go.

Posted by symbiotic

I liked the movie, but there were a few scenes that didn't do it for me. I didn't pick up on some of the things that you did, but the Jonathan Kent death scene was one of the moments that didn't do it for me. It wasn't emotionally powerful at all.

I also didn't particularly care for the "imagine an island" scene either.

Starting the movie with childbirth was awkward but after they started setting up the "first natural child birth" stuff it made more sense.... until they abandoned that.

The entire scene on Krypton at the start of the movie was a little wierd. I loved the fight scenes and the "threaten my mother" scene was pretty awesome as well as the fight with Faora.

My wife made the comment that she thought Superman Returns was better. I disagree, but I liked superman returns pretty well. She also made the comment that we are spoiled by all of the good superhero movies that have been coming out lately.

Posted by HBKTimHBK

4 was a huge one for me, they just...wanted Lois.

Posted by SandMan_

Most of these are stupid...But you are entitled to your own opinion.

Edited by Birthright

10) Kal-EL did choose his destiny. He chooses to save Earth and that Krypton already had its chance.

9) General Zod flying was an epic scene. Looks at the face expression by Superman when he saw him fly and got called a farm boy. You really can't blame him for flying earlier when he doesn't even have 24 hours on Earth.

8) Who cares about temperature in a movie? Lois was the least interesting part of that scene. I was more focused on what Clark was doing.

7) Superman did care. Nobody died in Smallville and the Kryptonians and Military did more damage than he did. How the hell is he going to stop General Zod and other Kryptonians from tearing him apart. You think General Zod or Faora were interested in fighting somewhere else? Goku might pull that shit in DBZ but realistically no villain would care about the heroes worries. General Zod made it clear he was going to exterminate Earth.

6) General Zod already stated that they were out of resources and the fact that Kal-El was on Earth and lived healthy for that long and that Kryptonians were able to get used to Earth's atmosphere made Earth and no brainier when it comes to terraforming. Jor-El could have warned the council earlier? As a Superman fan you should know that in every origin Jor-El is never listened to. And if you watch the beginning again Jor-El clearly states that he had warned them about harvesting energy from the planet's core before.

5) A ship that is smart enough to have auto-defense, auto-repair system and maintain embryos can't create a simple suit? Once Kal-El put the key in Jor-El's essence was in control of the ship.

4) They took Lois because they were clearly hacking into Earth's sources and found out that Lois knew more about Kal-El than anyone on the planet. Of course eventually they found out that also his mom knew about him which is why they payed her a visit.

3) He had no choice but to kill General Zod. Zod made it clear that one of them will die in that battle. With both of ships gone there was no way to send Zod to the Phantom Zone, Zod was getting stronger by the minute and letting him escape would only bring more possibilities of the death in the future. On top of that General Zod was basically committing suicide and asking Kal-El to end him since he had no soul and purpose. I know where you are coming from but next movie will most likely focus on Superman's guilt for killing Zod and realizing that there is always a way. Zack Snyder and David Goyer set up the sequel perfectly.

2) General Zod clearly stated that it was a temporary weakness.

1) I do agree Clark could have saved Jonathan but the point they wanted to put across was that Jonathan would die to keep Clark's secret. I thought it could have been done better but it wasn't a horrible scene by any means.

Posted by symbiotic

I honestly didn't even realize that Zod hadn't been flying before the scene where he revealed he could fly. In hindsight the climbing up the wall part was pretty obvious, but not being able to fly didn't seem like a huge disadvantage for Zod.

Posted by Necroziel

@symbiotic: See that's exactly it! A moment which should be awesome is ruined because we've seen Clark fly and therefore presumed that they could all do it.

p.s I really liked the way he ran up walls reminded me of Prototype.

Posted by lilben42

@necroziel: Not to be mean but you should probably watch the movie next time.

Edited by BiteMe-Fanboy

The more I think about all the problems I have with this film (which are mostly nitpicking) the less I like it.

It's a good movie, don't get me wrong, but nothing special. I put it along the lines of Iron Man 3 and Captain America. Good, but nothing special.

I think the fact it's a new Superman movie, and that Nolan has something to do with it is making people look the other way from all the problems with the film.

Posted by Deranged Midget

Just to clarify, Superman's killed in the comics before. He killed Doomsday because he had no other option of stopping him and he killed Zod... mercilessly with Kryptonite. Just saying ;)

That entire scene was probably the best part of the film. Clark is not Superman in this film, he is not experienced and his powers are still in their infancy. The entire importance behind his decision was that it will force him to be better and grow into the hero that inspires humanity.

Moderator
Posted by SlickDazeD

@necroziel The reason Zod could fly is because to show he is more adaptable than superman. But it just took superman almost 33 years to learn how to fly on earth. Zod had to adapt to earth's ecosytem the second when his mask was messing up in the fighting scene. So yeah he could fly, he mastered it in a day unlike superman. vise versa with superman on zod's ship.

Posted by EnSabahNurX

10) Kal-EL did choose his destiny. He chooses to save Earth and that Krypton already had its chance.

9) General Zod flying was an epic scene. Looks at the face expression by Superman when he saw him fly and got called a farm boy. You really can't blame him for flying earlier when he doesn't even have 24 hours on Earth.

8) Who cares about temperature in a movie? Lois was the least interesting part of that scene. I was more focused on what Clark was doing.

7) Superman did care. Nobody died in Smallville and the Kryptonians and Military did more damage than he did. How the hell is he going to stop General Zod and other Kryptonians from tearing him apart. You think General Zod or Faora were interested in fighting somewhere else? Goku might pull that shit in DBZ but realistically no villain would care about the heroes worries. General Zod made it clear he was going to exterminate Earth.

6) General Zod already stated that they were out of resources and the fact that Kal-El was on Earth and lived healthy for that long and that Kryptonians were able to get used to Earth's atmosphere made Earth and no brainier when it comes to terraforming. Jor-El could have warned the council earlier? As a Superman fan you should know that in every origin Jor-El is never listened to. And if you watch the beginning again Jor-El clearly states that he had warned them about harvesting energy from the planet's core before.

5) A ship that is smart enough to have auto-defense, auto-repair system and maintain embryos can't create a simple suit? Once Kal-El put the key in Jor-El's essence was in control of the ship.

4) They took Lois because they were clearly hacking into Earth's sources and found out that Lois knew more about Kal-El than anyone on the planet. Of course eventually they found out that also his mom knew about him which is why they payed her a visit.

3) He had no choice but to kill General Zod. Zod made it clear that one of them will die in that battle. With both of ships gone there was no way to send Zod to the Phantom Zone, Zod was getting stronger by the minute and letting him escape would only bring more possibilities of the death in the future. On top of that General Zod was basically committing suicide and asking Kal-El to end him since he had no soul and purpose. I know where you are coming from but next movie will most likely focus on Superman's guilt for killing Zod and realizing that there is always a way. Zack Snyder and David Goyer set up the sequel perfectly.

2) General Zod clearly stated that it was a temporary weakness.

1) I do agree Clark could have saved Jonathan but the point they wanted to put across was that Jonathan would die to keep Clark's secret. I thought it could have been done better but it wasn't a horrible scene by any means.

10) He followed Jor-El's plan for him. Jor-El wanted him to be the bridge for a new kryptonian race but not at the expense of the humans.

9) Zod looked ridiculous lol Sorry but that scene had me crying from laughing so hard. Could have been done in a way more intimidating fashion.

8) Really? Even on the Smallville tv show everyone addresses the temperature by doing a simple shiver/or hand rub. Lets have some reality for something on EARTH, this movie was supposed to be a little grounded in reality. lol

7) Damage was fine because of the scenario but smallville people had to of died. No joke, it's not possible they didn't. The product placement in that scene made no sense. Smallville is a small country town but had such mainstream stores. Speaking as someone who has been in many small towns, those stores rarely exist especially together. (iHop, 711, Sears)

6) There was a colony on the moon...why didn't they go after earth sooner instead of starving to death? or get resources from earth? OR ANY OTHER PLANET they colonized near(not just the moon base)?

5) Why the hell is the ship there and no kryptonians survived it's landing? If the ship was still functioning why did no kryptonians take over earth back then? Or at least use it to get to a safe pace, not the frozen waste land. It was there 20,000yrs ago.

4) Lois on the ship was POINTLESS. They didn't care about humans, they were going to have a genocide anyway. They had Clark and mind scanned him. Lois was redundant and a pointless plot device. Hell use her to get Clark to do what you want, build some tension.

3) The Phantom Zone wasn't even another dimension prison, it was just an orbit near a blackhole. Why were they frozen with a ship that had the potential to be rewired to fly through space. If Jor-El did it once, clearly others were aware. Awful interpretation of the Phantom Zone.

ZOD HAD NO MOTIVATION. He was programmed to "Protect" Krypton at birth and like any other program protector he over did it. Shocking, so Zod was a one note villain as was Faora and the rest of the nameless Kryptonians.

2) Zod's power set and the kryptonians made no sense. They were super strong and crap but it didn't explain or even have a throw away line or scene explaining them adjusting(aside from zod's x-ray vision which was way later than their use of strength, semi-flight/super jumps). Or how about why they gained other abilities without the helmet? The helmet helped them breathe, that's it. The atmosphere is not where their powers come from, otherwise why would they have those shots of clark clearly laying in the sun to regain strength(he reaches out to the damn sun).

1) Jonathan was AWEFUL, what a total butchering of a straightforward character. Dear Clark, let your classmates die as long as your secret is safe. Don't save anyone just because you can, you might expose your secret. His death was just pointless and terrible. Clark without using crazy powers could have saved the dog. Atleast have him die trying to save a child trapped in a car, then have the strain of freeing said child trigger a heart attack. You know a heroic death is better than a pointless one. Also they made Jor-El more likable than Jonathan.

Jor-El was a BORN scientist, yet instead of using tech or chemicals to escape zod's forces he became a prize fighter =_= They clearly beat us over the head with the concept of being born to have only the ambition to do what you are assigned but contradicted it at every turn. How come no one had a real birth? Did they have abortions when they got pregnant? Did they not have sex? Were there pills to make sure no one got pregnant? Everything can be addressed with a simple line or snippet of a scene.

This movie was quite terrible from character development to the paper thin plot. The pacing...omg the pacing was ridiculous. The movie's tone wasn't even consistent.

Also WAY too much Crowe, it was over done

Posted by SideburnGuru

10. Yes.. it was just some symbolism that you thought was going to be deeper... okay?..Okay.

9. It was the impact of the moment. While it took Superman awhile to fly, Zod was shown to already have the skill down. It was impressive, because of the fact when Superman first arrived, it took him awhile to grasp it. Zod goes down, he's able to fly with ease.

8. Really? Tempature? What, did you want them going OVERACTING and shaking with each step? She's been told it's cold. What do you want her to say? "WOW, IT SURE IS COLD." When she was already told that it's GOING to be cold. This is why we have stupid characters in movies, when they have to repeat something that was just told to them.

7. "SUPERMAN IS SUPPOSED TO CARE." I really wish people saying this would just shut up. THIS IS A NEWER SUPERMAN. HE'S ONLY BEEN SUPERMAN, FOR A LITTLE BIT. His morality AS SUPERMAN, COULD NOT HAVE DEVELOPED. He was realisticly NOT thinking about what was going on, or what was at hand. JESUS. How many times does this have to be explained?

If the movie said, THIS WAS AN EXPERIENCED SUPERMAN, I'd agree. BUT NO. This is a JUST STARTING SUPERMAN. Do you play a game, and automatically know the level, the rules, and the situation? NO. You LEARN. Just like he was. That's not a flaw. Damn.

6. Pride, and you said it yourself. It's part of the origin. Go and insult the origin for that one, NOT the movie.

5. That's just random nit-picking. Perhaps, more will be explained later on? Or did we not think of the fact sequels happened? On that note, since the symbol RIGHT ON THE CHEST, is their symbol of Hope. That already ties in. Why those colors? No idea, but the logo on it does make sense.

4. No explaination for that. Movies aren't flawless, but I still say only hardcore critics who enjoy nit-picking will grasp this one.

3. Repeat 7. NEW. SUPERMAN. <--- He had no choice, AND MUCH LIKE YOU TRIED NITPICKING ABOUT, he did what was RIGHT for HUMANITY. He even showed emotion after that scene, showing he didn't like the thought as well.

2. Maybe they have all had experience with the type of substance before. Isn't it shown when Zod first takes off the helmet, he gives some kind of weird unexplainable look? Also, it wasn't overly violent. Random nit picking, once again.

1. One scene. ONE SCENE. That makes him a horrible guy, for going off instinct and saying he'd rather the son be safe.

Did you ever say something that was impuslive, but you didn't mean?


Edited by Veshark

Just two things to add:

I read one article that suggested that Jonathan Kent was modernized as well, into a more postmodern version of the character, who feared for his son's safety. Where it wasn't in the old days where there was right and wrong, black and white, and that parents of the modern and more complex world would definitely want to protect their son from a hostile Earth. Especially when their son is really different. I'm not saying I agree with this interpretation, but it certainly does make Pa Kent a lot more explainable, and fits the whole 'grounded' vibe the movie goes with.

Also, why is everyone whining about the natural birth scene? It's just symbolism - Kal-El represents a new, free, Kryptonian who will not be bound by the failures of the old, dying Krypton, instead being able to choose his own life in a new Earth. They practically drill this part into your head right from the beginning, they never 'abandoned' the concept.

Posted by symbiotic

@veshark said:

Just two things to add:

I read one article that suggested that Jonathan Kent was modernized as well, into a more postmodern version of the character, who feared for his son's safety. Where it wasn't in the old days where there was right and wrong, black and white, and that parents of the modern and more complex world would definitely want to protect their son from a hostile Earth. Especially when their son is really different. I'm not saying I agree with this interpretation, but it certainly does make Pa Kent a lot more explainable, and fits the whole 'grounded' vibe the movie goes with.

Also, why is everyone whining about the natural birth scene? It's just symbolism - Kal-El represents a new, free, Kryptonian who will not be bound by the failures of the old, dying Krypton, instead being able to choose his own life in a new Earth. They practically drill this part into your head right from the beginning, they never 'abandoned' the concept.

I think they abandoned the concept in the fact that they do drill it into your head from the begining, but the payoff isn't there. It's sort of the opposite problem from Zod flying. They don't really build that up as an advantage for Superman, where Zod flying is an "oh no" moment. It was more like "oh yeah, you haven't been flying this whole time". The birth scene seemed odd, but then it made more sense when they added significance to it with the "first natural birth" thing. It seemed like they were setting up a major point, but it didn't really seem to come up again.

I think Johnathan Kent was under utilized. I can understand the aspect of protecting your son, but his death wasn't as powerful as it could have been. I think he should have focused more on it being Clarks choice about whether to save people or not and less about protecting his son.

Posted by Veshark

@symbiotic

I don't know where this idea that it was supposed to be an 'advantage' sprang from. Watching the movie for the first time, I accepted it as a purely symbolic line, I never thought that it was going to come back in the form of some 'advantage' during Superman's fight. The significance wasn't physical, I don't know why many are crowing for something that was never there. It never came across as a major plot point to me, just a change that added a deeper layer to Superman's birth.

Yeah, Jonathan Kent was kinda iffy for me. But that explanation makes his depiction a little easier to swallow.

Posted by w0nd

@necroziel:

1 :When people heard he was going to be special even on krypton they took that as he was having powers there too, that rumor caused an uproar and caused people to be angered. Now it was just suggested that him being special was just him being able to choose his own destiny. He told his son it was his choice what to do, and since he lived on earth and grew up with his people it was ultimately his choice what to do.

Zod didn't want to share so he chose not to carry on. He said krypton had it's chance and that was that. It's pretty much a human/kryptonian version of the movie antz but since he didn't know any other life then the one on earth it doesn't seem that dramatic for him.

4 :of the main post. They knew she was important because the news and pretty much everyone announced that she knew his identity, I assume they listened to their broadcasts and learned her name and seen her pictures. B.S. answer but that's what I am going with

9: would you have preferred they went the Smallville route and had him learn to fly the last possible second? I am not being sarcastic maybe you liked that idea better.

I am fine with the movie version though, Clark had slight advantages, but over all trained soldiers vs a farm boy seems kind of crazy, he barely beat the two in town, and he didn't beat them. If it wasn't for his flight and heat vision they would have mopped the floor with him even more so than they did, in the original movie I was confused as to why 3 wouldn't just gang up on him and beat him to death, they were all like him with the same powers. It leveled the playing field. If they showed up on Earth and were flying around shooting heat vision right away I would be like wtf....how? Took clark 33 years to learn all this. The only reason I accept Zod learning all that, that fast was because he was the only one in that crew who could fly and use heat vision.

what I don't get, not I might have missed something, but he blew up the world maker over the indian ocean, it blows up and he gets knocked out, when Lois falls from the ship over metropolis he awakes just in time to catch her and land with her then they kiss, how was he in Metropolis to catch her? Like I said I could have missed something but he does push the rubble off of himself before going to catch her so I assume it was suggesting it fell on him when he blew up the machine that wasn't even in the city anyway.

Edited by Bogey

Another complaint thread about a great movie. I can picture this is how they look whenever something unsettles them.

Posted by Necroziel

@bogey: I can assure you that i don't look like that I look more like the picture provided.

Second of all. I mention a few times that I actually think this movies ok, its just a let down. How about instead of stonewalling me, you enter into a bit of spirited debate. I've been chatting to a few people about the movie and some have even manage to convince me of things and make me think about the film in different ways. All you've done is join in with those people who seem to dislike criticism just because it's not their opinion.

Posted by symbiotic

@veshark said:

@symbiotic

I don't know where this idea that it was supposed to be an 'advantage' sprang from. Watching the movie for the first time, I accepted it as a purely symbolic line, I never thought that it was going to come back in the form of some 'advantage' during Superman's fight. The significance wasn't physical, I don't know why many are crowing for something that was never there. It never came across as a major plot point to me, just a change that added a deeper layer to Superman's birth.

Yeah, Jonathan Kent was kinda iffy for me. But that explanation makes his depiction a little easier to swallow.

I don't think it had to be an advantage, and honestly during the movie I didn't sit there and think about Zod revealing he could fly. It just sort of blended in with the action. If it was supposed to be a powerful scene, it missed the mark for me for the reasons I described. I enjoyed the movie and it provided some of the best action of any of the comic book movies so far. I felt like a few of the scenes that were meant to be powerful emotional scenes ( Jonathan's death, Martha's island speech, Laura's death) just didn't strike a cord with me. I did like the "you are my son" scene and the " you think you can threaten my mother scene" though.

Only a few things actually bothered me during the movie. I felt like some of the language was unnecessary (pete cursing at Clark on the bus, and the "comparing d!cks" comment from Lois). I was a little upset with Supes snapping Zod's neck. Not because he killed Zod, but because he snapped his neck. I was glad my son had fallen asleep by then (I have no idea how) and didn't see it. I really enjoyed it though.

There are plenty of nitpicks I can make after the fact though and I am still coming up with them. For instance how can clark "breath" in outer space if the atmosphere of earth is part of his powers and the atmosphere of krypton made him week like a human. What does no atmosphere at all do him?

Also, they addressed it in the movie as Zod saying he didn't want to spend years adjusting to Earth's climate (although he seemed to do pretty well when fighting Superman), but why wouldn't you want to live on a world where you are nearly impervious to damage and have superhuman abilities. How long would you be willing to "suffer" through a different atmosphere if it meant you would have Superman's abilities afterwards. I think I could suffer through a few years of asthma if I became Superman afterwards.

again these are small nitpicks after the fact and had no impact on my viewing enjoyment. I probably wont' see it again in theater, but I will buy it when it comes out and I'm excited about a JL movie.

Posted by Veshark

@symbiotic

Maybe so, but you did mention you expected a payoff from the comment. I agree it was made out to be a statement of significance, but it never occurred to me that it should be anything but an added significance to Superman's birth alone. As for Zod revealing he could fly, I can live with it, in all honesty. The emotional moments were mostly hit rather than miss, but the scenes that hit really hit the mark I thought.

I wasn't overtly-bothered by the language, I can understand the sensitivity if there's a child present, but I didn't think much about it. I took Lois' comment as sort of establishing her characterization as a strong and unafraid reporter. How would you have preferred Clark to kill Zod? I thought that him snapping the neck was actually fairly tame...there have been more brutal deaths in the history of comic-book movies. Goblin being impaled by his own glider, Shaw getting a coin through his head...

I'm not sure about that - is it a solar thing? I didn't really pay attention to the whole atmosphere bit, but I'm sure there are others here who can provide an explanation.

Edited by symbiotic

@veshark said:

@symbiotic

Maybe so, but you did mention you expected a payoff from the comment. I agree it was made out to be a statement of significance, but it never occurred to me that it should be anything but an added significance to Superman's birth alone. As for Zod revealing he could fly, I can live with it, in all honesty. The emotional moments were mostly hit rather than miss, but the scenes that hit really hit the mark I thought.

I wasn't overtly-bothered by the language, I can understand the sensitivity if there's a child present, but I didn't think much about it. I took Lois' comment as sort of establishing her characterization as a strong and unafraid reporter. How would you have preferred Clark to kill Zod? I thought that him snapping the neck was actually fairly tame...there have been more brutal deaths in the history of comic-book movies. Goblin being impaled by his own glider, Shaw getting a coin through his head...

I'm not sure about that - is it a solar thing? I didn't really pay attention to the whole atmosphere bit, but I'm sure there are others here who can provide an explanation.

As far as the birth thing I did expect a payoff. The birth scene struck me as odd at first, then they spoke about him being the first natural birth in centuries and I thought "ok they are setting this up as significant so it will come back later in the movie". Besides a few mentions of other Kryptonians being programed I didn't feel like they ever really picked the natural birth free will thing back up.

The advantage I was speaking of is how I would have made the Zod "I can fly" moment more powerful. You make Superman's ability to fly the only advantage that allows him to maintain an even hand with the Kryptonians and then you take that away with the scene described.

Having my son and wife in the theater with me made me much more sensitive to those sorts of things. I probably wouldn't give them a second thought if they aren't with me. There have been more than a few instances where I suggested a movie I have seen and said "oh, I forgot they did that" or had to turn the movie off because it really wasn't appropriate for my son to watch. When I watched it by myself I didn't even notice it, but with him in the room I am extremely aware of any language, sex scenes, or graphic violence.

As far as the atmosphere, Superman's power has always come from the sun previously (and Zor El mentions him drinking in the radiation of the yellow sun and being a god to them), so even in space he didn't need to breath. If he doesn't need to breath how does the atmosphere affect him? Is there a little bit of kryptonite in the air, did the atmosphere comment refer to simulating a red sun on the ship? I don't know the answer but maybe someone can come up with a good explaination.

Posted by Veshark

@symbiotic

As I said before, the thought never occurred to me, I think you were just expecting something more from that comment. But to me, it was purely metaphorical - a symbol for Kal-El's freedom from the old dying Krypton, and a chance to forge his own destiny. As for Zod being able to fly, I think that was another factor that added to Clark finally choosing to kill him. He realized that this was a man who would not back down, a soldier who was trained to kill and fight. Whereas Clark is still fairly inexperienced at this point.

I can definitely understand that, I would probably be more aware of it if there was a child present.

I think that the atmosphere isn't necessarily what affects Superman. The weak gravity of Earth grants him flight, and the yellow sun radiation grants him strength, speed, x-ray vision, and heat vision. But Zod's ship was simulating the atmosphere of Krypton, and it took Clark a while to adjust to it (which was why he got knocked out). I assume that the ship is shielded from the yellow sun that he needs (it does fly to space, so that would make sense). I'd have to rewatch the film to get a definitive explanation.

Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND

Honestly the parts that bugged me the most were the ones with Lois.

Posted by AjO16

Hope you don't mind me Knit picking you comments. I glad you brought them up Made me think.

10. The First Natural Birth in Centuries

This was a key part of the whole story. His Ability to Choose his own life, make is own mistakes.

9. Zod can fly!!!! Oh wait, I don’t care.

I felt like Zod Flying was Awesome. His ability to adapt to his environment was his way of showing Clark that Krypton way of Procreation was superior. If it took you 33 year to learn how to fly and some guy comes in and less then 24 hours is mastering your powers that intimidating

8. Its below freezing out. Best put on a hat.

Ya I agree with you, I didn't even pay attention to that tho lol.

7. Metropolis estimated population: probably like 7 now?

Ya it was crazy but I would of hated it more if there was no violence. Comics and Cartoons all the time have city blocks wiped out. I felt like it was needed to keep that comic book feel.

6. Why would the destruction of their home world be a problem for an interplanetary race?

Maybe I'm wrong working with Memory, Didn't Zod try that, after getting out of the Phantom Zone. But because Krypton was destroyed all those planets ran out of Supplies.

5. Here’s one we made earlier.

This on is tricky, I think the only way to understand this is to read the Prequel comic or at least that what i thought of what I was watching it. Kinda stupid to put a part of the story in the movie that was only available in the United States.

4. We want the woman as well! Why?

LoL Agree with you 100% I felt her role in the film was the gap between superman and the human race. Someone he can connect with thats not his parents. He practically spent 33 years alone

3. Superman killed Zod.

I understand why people are going crazy over this. But I think it was needed, Remember going back to 10. (First Natural Birth) and Being raised by earth parents, I think this pushed him over the edge and set boundaries for himself. The next MOS movie will be the superman we know. As the emotional Aspect of it, It was quick but He needs to stay strong in front of the human race, the impact was initially scaring but he needed the Human Races trust would you trust someone who saves the day then Runs off for a long time. Thats why people don't like Batman, lol.

2. Kryptonians are allergic to Earth’s atmosphere?

I wouldn't say allergic. more not prepared. I get funny feeling going up and down big Hills in a car. Change in Atmospheric Presssure.

1. JONATHAN KENT!!!

WORST PART OF THE MOVIE. He could of Ran so fast the nobody can see him take Jonathan to the other side of the Tornado then run back. HES SUPERMAN.

Edited by drgnx

Can't the mods force these to the MOS section so we are not plaiged with 100 threads with different people complaining about the same things here here in general superman? This is the same topic over and over and over, and would be locked for other subjects!

Posted by symbiotic

@veshark said:

@symbiotic

As I said before, the thought never occurred to me, I think you were just expecting something more from that comment. But to me, it was purely metaphorical - a symbol for Kal-El's freedom from the old dying Krypton, and a chance to forge his own destiny. As for Zod being able to fly, I think that was another factor that added to Clark finally choosing to kill him. He realized that this was a man who would not back down, a soldier who was trained to kill and fight. Whereas Clark is still fairly inexperienced at this point.

I can definitely understand that, I would probably be more aware of it if there was a child present.

I think that the atmosphere isn't necessarily what affects Superman. The weak gravity of Earth grants him flight, and the yellow sun radiation grants him strength, speed, x-ray vision, and heat vision. But Zod's ship was simulating the atmosphere of Krypton, and it took Clark a while to adjust to it (which was why he got knocked out). I assume that the ship is shielded from the yellow sun that he needs (it does fly to space, so that would make sense). I'd have to rewatch the film to get a definitive explanation.

I get that about the birth and it being metaphorical. I just think they could have skipped the birth scene and lose virtually nothing from the story.

I think that is what they were going for with Zod's reveal of his ability to fly, but I just didn't feel it when I watched the movie. Also, while I have no personal experience, isn't it funny how easy they make it look in movies to snap someones neck. Having grappled before and found it difficult to move someone's head when they don't want you to, I imagine it is pretty difficult to snap someones neck. Superman seemed to be unable to even turn Zod's head to protect the family from his heat vision and yet he can snap Zod's neck.

Everyone is freaking out about Superman killing Zod, or pointing out that Superman II basically ended with Zod et al dying. I will say that I don't think Superman had to kill Zod. Maybe he could consult with Jor El about how to make a prison that blocked the sun and simulated the atmosphere of Krypton so Zod would basically be depowered. If he does have to kill Zod then I would have preferred a more ambiguous death (like superman 2 falling into the bottomless pit). At least it wasn't a bloody death though.

Edited by drgnx

@bogey said:

Holly molly that baby is zen-like, its like Dhalsim

Posted by Necroziel

@drgnx: sorry I didn't realise there was a man of steel forum. I just typed superman in the blog tag thingy.

But on the other hand at least it's provoked some debate and didcussion.

Posted by drgnx

@necroziel:

It's not that you did something specifically wrong, it's more less a lack of foresight. We probably should have requested a sticky or something on this forum.

Posted by weaponx

I think Kevin Costner did a great job as Johnathan Kent, Russel Crow did a great job as Jor-El and the guy that played Zod also did a great job by the end of the movie, though it took me awhile to accept him as Zod, something didn't really fit, but by the end his attitude and role was pretty well played. The best part of the movie was the fight/action scenes. They were really well done and seemed very powerful and epic. Part of a city was destroyed due to the fight which was epic and the power and speed was shown very well. Despite this, I HATED the shaky cam bull crap!! I have NEVER liked it and there is a lot of it used in this movie and I kind of get the idea of what is happening, but sometimes I am just guessing and I would really like to SEE what is happening, how they are fighting, who is hitting who etc. I loved the show of speed but there were moments where Zod and Superman were fighting at very fast speeds and I couldn't tell what was happening. I think they should have shown them going at super speed so you could get the idea that they were fast and then go in slow motion so you could see what they were doing. Over all though, the fight scenes were epic. I also liked that they didn't use kryptonite at all in the film! I am usually annoyed how they use it so it was better to leave it out all together. Another thing I liked was in the beginning where he was just a normal dude doing random things until disaster struck and he saved the day. I really liked that actually, and wished they had more examples of him doing that, like traveling the world, getting a soul searching experience trying to live a low key life and then showing how time and again there would be some disaster where he would have to save the day, showing his abilities, which would then force him to move to another remote location.

Some things I did like: I did think the tornado scene was really dumb though, I mean for one thing would you forget your dog? No! Even if you did, would you let the immortal person go get the dog or a fragile human vs a tornado? That made no sense to me. It was also obvious that Johnathan was in trouble for quite awhile and Clark just stood there, he could have ran at fast human speed as to not give away his identity and help his dad or at least get sucked into the tornado with him and shield him. In any case, that scene was very emotional and it was very good besides the unrealistic aspect to it. It was a strong moment and well done in the end though. What was the deal with the atmosphere? The atmosphere gives him powers? So when you take that atmosphere away he is normal human level? Okay... so how does he fly and have super strength in space?! That really really annoyed me. Another thing I really didn't like, was Amy Adams as Lois Lane was a terrible choice. I didn't buy it at all, she was awful, didn't look the part, didn't act the part very well, and found out about his identity way too easily and quickly. I liked absolutely nothing about her! I also didn't feel like there was much chemistry between her and clark, I mean there were some smiles and stuff (mostly from lois) but there wasn't much there between them to warrant the kiss they had near the end.. maybe she was in shock that she almost died..? Oh, and how convenient that she just happens to get thrown out of the plane as it crashes into the ship?! Also, this version of clark killed zod, which I liked and the acting was good because you could see he was conflicted and didn't want to kill.... yet he blew up a gas station and several buildings in his fight, haha. I thought that was fine I guess, because I wanted to see the destruction and power, but it was weird that at times he was concerned for human life, and other times he definitely wasn't. Another dumb thing was when zod had the heat vision going toward those people and clark was holding his head to stop him... well, all zod had to do was move his eyes and look over at them lol! I can't really think of much more right now, but that is a lot I am sure.

Some more things: I thought the krypton thing jumped around a bit and I couldn't tell any sense of time. One moment Zod killed Jor-El, the next they are banished, and the next the planet explodes?! The gap between the last two events really though me off, as it seemed the council was saving Zod and the others by sending them to the phantom zone, as the planet is destroyed. That bothered me a lot. Oh, and I thought it strange that Jor-El, a man genetically engineered to be a scientist defeated Zod, a man designed to be a warrior....Another thing that I forgot about was the fact that all the codex thing was encoded in the blood of clark right? Well they took a blood sample!! They should have the information then, unless the needed ALL the blood to get all the information because there was so much of it, but that wasn't clear to me.

Posted by joshmightbe

I love how all these "True" Superman fans keep bitching about Superman killing Zod despite the fact that he's actually killed Zod at least twice in the comics and once in Superman 2, then there's the destruction, as if Superman has never had a fight that leveled a city before? Have you ever read a Superman comic? Also if he had stopped to save every human in danger he wouldn't have had time to stop the device that was going to end pretty much all human life on Earth which would have made it pointless to save anyone at all since he'd just be letting them die by doing so. Also the first natural born Kryptonian thing was a nod to John Byrne's run when he introduced the idea of Kryptonians being genetically engineered, and the fact that he wasn't was an important plot point given that Zod and his people considered it heresy. Zod was visibly pissed off when Jor-El told him about his son.

If you didn't like it that's fine but lets not pretend that anything in this movie was unprecedented for Superman. Him not being able to save everyone has been a major plot to about 600 Superman stories.

Posted by Necroziel

@joshmightbe: I'm not really a huge superman fan and don't consider myself a "true" fan at all

But as a casual readerI know that at the core of superman a character he doesn't kill. Sure people can name a handful of examples of when he has. but I garuntee that there are more stories where him not killing is brought up.

Secondly my issues not with killing Zod. It's far more his reaction to killing Zod that I disliked.

Also why do people keep bringing up superman 2? I never said that film was perfect or even that i liked it? Superman sleeps with Lois Lame and then erases her memory! That's far worse than what happens in this film.

Posted by joshmightbe

@necroziel: So in this movie him killing once means he's pro murder but the dozen or so times he's done it in the comics means nothing?

He had no choice in killing Zod in the movie, He wasn't happy about it but it made it quite clear that Zod's death had to happen. Superman couldn't send him to the phantom zone because it had been sealed and he had no way to get him in there, Zod never would have stopped and there are no prisons currently capable of holding Kryptonians so even if Superman had locked him up he would have been free in a second and Zod would have went back to destruction. Seriously if you can think of one thing Superman actually could have done to keep Zod in check let me know but since they didn't have kryptonite in this movie and had no way to keep Zod prisoner so really what was he supposed to do?

Edited by Necroziel

@joshmightbe: I mention in the blog post and in my previous comment, that I understand why Zod had to die. I get that. My issue is with the way it's handled, he shows about as much anguish as I do when I stub my little toe. Sure I yell, but I soon get over it. That's exactly what supes does in this film. I don't want him to mourn Zod, I want him to be appalled at what Zod had him do. But nope instead he shouts at the sky then it's off to hilarious banter with lois in the daily planet! A city had been destroyed and a species, his species doomed to extinction. Do we get any emotion from him. Nope. That's bad writing. That's my issue with the whole Zod being killed thing.

Also has superman really killed dozens of times? As I say I'm not massively into supes so this is more a general question.

Posted by joshmightbe

@necroziel: Umm you either watched a different movie than I did or go way over board when you stub your toe. He looked like he was near tears over killing Zod, he looked as tho he'd just lost a friend and then there was a time skip so you have no idea how long he mourned over it, that could have been a month between the scene of Zod's death and the up beat ending. When Zod's death scene ended Superman was on his knees crying, how exactly is that not enough anguish? Did you want to see a suicide attempt? Did you want him to go all broody like Batman?

Edited by Necroziel

@joshmightbe: firstly I Massively overreact when I stub my toe, Hulk level rage. Seriously though I watched the film, I saw the reaction. I didn't see it the way you did that's personal interpretation.

You've got to admit though, it would have been far more interesting to see superman deal with those emotions, if as you say hes moved passed those feelings. I mean maybe he tells Lois he's taken a life and never again and blah blah sanctity of life or something like that. I mean give him some character development. Also you say times passed a month? That's a short time to get over something like that. And if he did get over why wouldn't you want to show the audience. It would given the character some depth.

I'm getting off topic really here though into the deeper flaws of the film. It was a fun flick, a bit of a let down for me. This list is really just me nitpicking for fun. I enjoy the discussion though.

P.s deaf god id hate a broody superman. I was worried he might have been with Nolans involvement.

Posted by joshmightbe

@necroziel: Let them deal with it in the sequels, also its very in character for Superman to hold in his emotions. He's all about putting on a brave face even if he's falling apart. Or maybe he just reacts different to death than you, everyone does. Some people just go numb, some people even crack jokes others just don't want others to even know how they feel so really there was no need to add an extra 20 minutes to the movie just to watch Superman be sad about something.

Posted by Veshark

@veshark said:

@symbiotic

As I said before, the thought never occurred to me, I think you were just expecting something more from that comment. But to me, it was purely metaphorical - a symbol for Kal-El's freedom from the old dying Krypton, and a chance to forge his own destiny. As for Zod being able to fly, I think that was another factor that added to Clark finally choosing to kill him. He realized that this was a man who would not back down, a soldier who was trained to kill and fight. Whereas Clark is still fairly inexperienced at this point.

I can definitely understand that, I would probably be more aware of it if there was a child present.

I think that the atmosphere isn't necessarily what affects Superman. The weak gravity of Earth grants him flight, and the yellow sun radiation grants him strength, speed, x-ray vision, and heat vision. But Zod's ship was simulating the atmosphere of Krypton, and it took Clark a while to adjust to it (which was why he got knocked out). I assume that the ship is shielded from the yellow sun that he needs (it does fly to space, so that would make sense). I'd have to rewatch the film to get a definitive explanation.

I get that about the birth and it being metaphorical. I just think they could have skipped the birth scene and lose virtually nothing from the story.

I think that is what they were going for with Zod's reveal of his ability to fly, but I just didn't feel it when I watched the movie. Also, while I have no personal experience, isn't it funny how easy they make it look in movies to snap someones neck. Having grappled before and found it difficult to move someone's head when they don't want you to, I imagine it is pretty difficult to snap someones neck. Superman seemed to be unable to even turn Zod's head to protect the family from his heat vision and yet he can snap Zod's neck.

Everyone is freaking out about Superman killing Zod, or pointing out that Superman II basically ended with Zod et al dying. I will say that I don't think Superman had to kill Zod. Maybe he could consult with Jor El about how to make a prison that blocked the sun and simulated the atmosphere of Krypton so Zod would basically be depowered. If he does have to kill Zod then I would have preferred a more ambiguous death (like superman 2 falling into the bottomless pit). At least it wasn't a bloody death though.

I personally thought it was a good way to start the movie. A little awkward perhaps, but it does establish some thematic significance.

I'm no neck-turning expert, but perhaps it's harder to move a head when your hands haven't built momentum? One quick snap of the neck requires a lot of force and momentum on your hands' part, while simply moving it doesn't, making it harder to achieve. I don't know, I'm just theorizing at this stage, but overall it's a minor nit-pick that doesn't bother me.

Well you have to take the context into account. First, with the world engine destroyed and his entire army cast back into the Phantom Zone, Zod has lost all purpose to live. The sole reason for his existence was to ensure that Krypton lived on, and with that goal lost, he basically fell into a suicidal rampage. Remember him saying that he'll kill everyone? He basically realized that he had lost this war, and he wanted to go out fighting (calling back to Faora's comment about a good death being it's own reward). So now he's even more dangerous, and we see his final battle with Clark completely decimating Metropolis.

There's obvious destruction and collateral casualties everywhere, and this fight is probably like Clark's third in his entire life. And keep in mind he's never fought on this scale of combat before, while Zod's been a warrior his entire life. So at the moment that Zod nearly kills the family, Clark sees that family and finally realizes that not only are people dying, but that Zod cannot be subdued. That if he keeps trying to defeat Zod without killing him, more and more innocent civilians would die. Realizing that he cannot beat Zod fast enough, and that prolonging the fight will only lead to more deaths, Clark finally kills Zod. It's a painful moment for him, and we see his immediate regret after killing the last other member of his race (save for the P-Zone ones) - I thought it was done very well.

Edited by Ciriel

There are many reasons why I do not like this movie. I did not like the characters; they were very bland. There was no purpose for half of them. Flashbacks can be out of order, but I did not like how this movie handled them specifically. I did not get a good feel of character development. I'm feeling rather blah about everything but the action, and one extra aspect that I like about it. I like the concept that his powers are like a schizophrenia for him until he learns to control them. Blah blah blah. I could go on, but there is little purpose. In a crowd of people who preach about their opinion, they ignore yours unless it is: "Start the slow clap. MoS is the greatest thing ever because...it is!"

Posted by symbiotic

@veshark said:

There's obvious destruction and collateral casualties everywhere, and this fight is probably like Clark's third in his entire life. And keep in mind he's never fought on this scale of combat before, while Zod's been a warrior his entire life. So at the moment that Zod nearly kills the family, Clark sees that family and finally realizes that not only are people dying, but that Zod cannot be subdued. That if he keeps trying to defeat Zod without killing him, more and more innocent civilians would die. Realizing that he cannot beat Zod fast enough, and that prolonging the fight will only lead to more deaths, Clark finally kills Zod. It's a painful moment for him, and we see his immediate regret after killing the last other member of his race (save for the P-Zone ones) - I thought it was done very well.

I like that explaination. It's not just about the family, but about the lives that would likely be lost if Superman wastes any more time trying to figure out how to stop Zod without killing him.

The destruction of metropolis didn't bother me when I watched the movie, but maybe poeple would have handled it better if they had mentioned that the city had already been mostly evacuated due to the alien threat. On the other hand that would have removed some of the incentive for superman to end the fight before more people got hurt or killed.

Posted by Veshark

@symbiotic

Yeah, I didn't think much of it during the movie (caught up in the spectacle, I guess), but I would've liked at least some attempts by Supes to draw the fight away, or at least of him trying to save innocent civilians. The Avengers illustrated this very well in their New York battle, with Cap, Widow, and Hawkeye saving lives and ordering the cops to organize evacuations, while IM tried to quarantine and keep the battle contained. But as for him killing Zod, that's the way I interpret Superman's PoV during that scene. It was an act of desperation, and Cavill definitely pulled it off.

Posted by Perezite

@ciriel said:

There are many reasons why I don not like this movie. I did not like the characters; they were very bland. There was no purpose for half of them. Flashbacks can be out of order, but I did not like how this movie handled them specifically. I did not get a good feel of character development. I'm feeling rather blah about everything but the action, and one extra aspect that I like about it. I like the concept that his powers are like a schizophrenia for him until he learns to control them. Blah blah blah. I could go on, but there is little purpose. In a crowd of people who preach about their opinion, they ignore yours unless it is: "Start the slow clap. MoS is the greatest thing ever because...it is!"

Hey. How dare you point out the flaws of democracy and Western Civilization! That's my job!

Posted by Ciriel

@perezite said:

Hey. How dare you point out the flaws of democracy and Western Civilization! That's my job!

Lol, very nice.

Posted by ThanoStomp

I liked the movie and agree with most of the points made. However, I swear after the Jor-El vs. Zod Henchmen fight I heard Jor-El mutter, "You just got Bay'd bitches."

I hate, hate, hate that quick-cutting action scene crap. I swear there must have been 20 cuts in a 15 second scene. There was more throughout the movie, but that scene was the worst. Its cheap and lacks the imagination to do it in a way that is visually appealing.