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Edited by Gambit474

Hold on- what if a character has been gay for a long time and been repressing it, even to themself? Trying hard to be who they thought they were expected to be? Would anyone -COULD anyone possibly object to someone coming out? I know people do object (everyone I knew tossed me out of their lives when I came out as bisexual AND transgendered, but that was like 16 years ago and times have -hopefully- changed). Can we get past calling it a gimmick if someone, be they real or fictional, reveals something about themselves that you are totally unaware of?

No because a majority of the time none of these characters showed that they were in the closet at all. I find it hard to believe that half of the characters that are gay are gay just because they're gay or gay because they're trying to appeal to a targeted audience on purpose or forcing it. There's gay heroes yeah..But don't go changing characters who were straight before into gays. That I have a extremely large problem with because it breaks something that should be incredibly important with a character...Continuity. If they want a gay character so bad then make a new one since that's the thing about characters or groups like the lantern corps..There's not a single defining individual. Like with Spider-man there's been multiple people who've had the spider-man mantle..They could easily make a new one and have it be gay. Also not Cats people don't need to get over it..They're entitled to their opinion and are allowed to voice it. If you don't like it then it's you who needs to get over it

Edited by Jayc1324

I feel like 9/10 times it's a gimmick but it depends on how it is presented. If you are reminded about it every moment or it seems to take away from the story then it is not okay.

Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude

@mynamewasdeleted: Ya know? The true reason I've been raging against the New 52 for all the changes they've made? Alan Scott being gay, the needless destroying of a universe, everything, is that I am going through a very rough spot in my life right now. Over the course of the past couple of years the dog I've had since I was 16(I'm 23) and raised from a puppy was stolen, my little sister has been diagnosed with leg cancer, my apartment was set on fire thanks to the idiocy of one of my neighbors and I've been forced to move into a crappy apartment as it was all I could afford after having to replace my computer and all my clothes, I've been forced to drive a ridiculously small and cramped car because it's the only one I can afford, and last year the girl I've been dating for the past five years overdosed on painkillers.

However when all that horrible stuff started happening, I still had the familiarity of both Marvel and DC. Everything was the same, I could just read a new comic and let the troubles of my life slip away. Then the New 52 happened and disrupted that. I thought that my comics would be the one safe place in my life where nothing would change, nothing as drastic as what was going on in my life would happen. Well big shocker, because everything I went through with those characters, everything I KNEW about those characters, all the money I spent over the years, all gone down the drain and meaningless. Just like how my life has been for the past few years so you'll forgive me if the New 52 and nearly everything they do causes me to become enraged. Yes, enraged.

It's gotten the point I become ecstatically happy when I hear that just one thing is like it was before the New 52. Bizarro, my favorite DC villain, has been confirmed to be coming back.

Lemme show you something.

This sums up just about everything that DC did to their universe with the New 52.

Bat-Mite being gone and being referred to as a "silly character with no place in a dark show" is really fitting for the New 52. After all they got rid of Mr. Myxzptlk and replaced him with a 3 headed, four armed, devil tailed demon from the 5th Dimension who wants to make peoples lives as painful as possible before killing them. Mxy? He was a villain sure, but he was a FUN villain!!!! He had all that power, actually one of if not the most powerful beings in the DCU and he just liked to have fun with Superman!! He loved to yank his chain!!! That was his whole purpose, and when they added in him becoming psychotically obsessed with him due to how many times Supes defeated him it got even better!!! Like in that Superman TAS episode where he first appeared

"Gotta beat Superman, gotta beat Superman, gotta beat Superman, GOT TO BEAT SUPERMAN!!!"

Time for fun villains? Gone. I mean yeah they're bringing back Bizarro, who is supposed to be a fun villain with his backwards speak and such, but there won't be a Bizarro World and he probably won't speak in Bizarro speak.

Do you see the point I'm trying to make here? DC just...... failed me. I shouldn't just have to settle with Marvel. While I greatly enjoy Marvel, the priciple of the matter is that I should be able to open a DC book and see Superman in this costume

Open a book called Earth 2 or any book that involes the Justice Society of America and see THIS exact team.

I should be able to buy a Teen Titans comic where I do not feel depressed reading it because I know that this is supposed to be the first team of them, and THIS team never existed and logically can never have existed thanks to the idiotic "Superheroes have only been around for 5 years" thing!!!!!!

And finally I shouldn't have to turn to out of continuity books just to get a DC universe that feels like the old one I knew and loved!!!!!!!

Edited by MyNameWasDeleted

Hold on- what if a character has been gay for a long time and been repressing it, even to themself? Trying hard to be who they thought they were expected to be? Would anyone -COULD anyone possibly object to someone coming out? I know people do object (everyone I knew tossed me out of their lives when I came out as bisexual AND transgendered, but that was like 16 years ago and times have -hopefully- changed). Can we get past calling it a gimmick if someone, be they real or fictional, reveals something about themselves that you are totally unaware of?

Edited by Nerx
Depends on the writer

The same with the current race-lifting phenomenon

Edited by theTimeStreamer

gimmick. same with different color characters.

Posted by XImpossibruX

Huh i just learned Midnighter is gay...

Edited by lykopis

I can appreciate having a beloved character change so much -- origins being eradicated, etc -- but the homosexuality aspect is not a big deal. At all. With or without supposed gimmickry, it just so happens that Alan Scott, a veteran Green Lantern is gay.

It's boring to continuously bring it up -- that aspect of the character. It's great reading along this discussion and having it be understand it's only a part of the problem, but this thread got my attention because of its title.

If they issued the first book with the newly revamped Alan Scott with sparkly rainbows on its cover, I would have thought it was awesome. Gimmicks are to help sell products and so, if it helped sell then awesome. More gimmicks the better. Weighing in on a person's sexual orientation doesn't make any sense -- at all.

Edited by Aiden Cross

Depends, if it's done right i think it's great, if it feels forced.. Never mind.

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@killemall said:

I am gonna be honest i am not a big fan of the whole homosexuality in comics specially in reboots, not that i have problem with people being homosexual (its there choice and no one should have a damn say on how they choose to live their life).

I feel a change in sexuality, or comments on homosexuality should only be touched upon if it does anything to the plot. Sure if the plot of the story is about it, go for it, its a perfectly good topic, but just giving a line or so comment on it, or randomly changing a well know character like say Alan Scott into gay, for no conceivable reason for story purpose, i am against.

The only way I'd be okay with it is if it was done tastefully. Like if there was no advertising of it, no announcements, and it wasn't revealed in the first issue!!! Keep it ambiguous, let us grow to like this new version of the character, then after say a few months let the cat out of the closet so to speak.

Now keep in mind, this is an "If it MUST be done" scenario. Even if they kept everything about Alan Scott the same except for the fact he was gay, I wouldn't be fully okay with it because that's still not the character I know.

Let's take a look at this for those who might try and bash me for that last comment. Alan Scott has been around for 73 years nearly as long as Superman. He is the FIRST Green Lantern, he is the most powerful Green Lantern, he was the key element in the creation of the entire concept of the Green Lantern Corps. However thanks to DC's little change none of that matters anymore because now people will ONLY associate him as being "Gay Green Lantern". People will not see him in his classic costume on the cover of a comic and say

"He's a Green Lantern? What's his deal?"

Thereby getting curious, and looking him up and discovering the original Justice Society and reading the adventures of the world's FIRST superhero team and one of the greatest, if not THE greatest, team in comics.

You see what the decision to make him gay was about don't you? Don't ANY of you? It wasn't for sales. It wasn't even for the gay community! I realize the sinister reason behind it!!! It was to make sure no one new to comics EVER learns of the old universe. It's to make sure that there's no big back lash from the new fans so they won't have to undo the New 52!!!!

Posted by Killemall

I am gonna be honest i am not a big fan of the whole homosexuality in comics specially in reboots, not that i have problem with people being homosexual (its there choice and no one should have a damn say on how they choose to live their life).

I feel a change in sexuality, or comments on homosexuality should only be touched upon if it does anything to the plot. Sure if the plot of the story is about it, go for it, its a perfectly good topic, but just giving a line or so comment on it, or randomly changing a well know character like say Alan Scott into gay, for no conceivable reason for story purpose, i am against.

Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude

@blkson said:

@smart_dork_dude: Can I ask why are you bringing this up now? I mean, this was a huge topic-- like back in Nov of 2012. There was a huge media fiasco to go with it, lots of articles and treads, even the NY Times. Did you just start reading the series? Just curious. I understand your frustration, you're a fan of the character but, what prompt you to bring this up now?

My friend loaned me his copies of Earth 2 so far to read in an attempt to convince me I need to "let go of the past" and see that these "new and hip" versions of characters I knew and loved aren't that bad. However letting go if the past entails forgetting that any previous version existed in order for me to stomach the tripe that is Earth 2. Don't even get me started on what they did to Grundy!!!

Posted by Catsnlynne

Other than having had a boyfriend, what has Alan Scott done that is gay? People need to get over it. I happen to like Alan Scott being gay.

Posted by blkson

@smart_dork_dude: Can I ask why are you bringing this up now? I mean, this was a huge topic-- like back in Nov of 2012. There was a huge media fiasco to go with it, lots of articles and treads, even the NY Times. Did you just start reading the series? Just curious. I understand your frustration, you're a fan of the character but, what prompt you to bring this up now?

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@akbogert: @juliedc:

I am more or less resigned to accepting it as currently I don't have much choice. I just wish they had done a better job with doing this if they HAD to do it. Like I said, make a story arc of it thus allowing for a transition period for both character and fan. But not he was gay from the get-go in the New 52

Edited by Extremis

Ugh this shit again? Alan's gay now. Get over it. What's wrong with him being super gay? May be the most gay man in comics. He loves penis.... Probably lots of it if he could have it. God bless Alan Scott, so that he may get more penises. And far be it from me to stop what God clearly wants for Alan.

Seriously, who effing cares. Alan Scott sucks anyway - if ya know what I mean ;)

Being a green lantern never looked so fabulous.

Posted by akbogert

There are definitely great, non gimmicky uses of homosexuality in comics. That's not even open for discussion: not all gay characters were made gay as an attention grab. I don't even think most were made as an attention grab. Some, particularly as of late, seem to have been thrown into the spotlight as a gimmick, but there's a line between gimmick and honest desire to showcase something you are doing, and I think that line is not always so clear.

Changing the orientation (or really any clearly-established trait) of a character is just terrible to me, though. That's not a matter of orientation or representation. Make a new character, and respect the old ones. Don't screw with someone that already has a history and a fanbase.

Posted by AweSam

@smart_dork_dude: Or just not do it at all. It's not necessary to just go around changing characters sexual orientations. They could easily just introduce a new character who happens to be gay instead of takong Alan and putting a giant sign over his head. It just doesn't suit him. I loved Alan Scott, but now I can't really get into him again. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for gay rights and I have nothing against them. My closest friend is gay. I just find it... gross watching two men kiss and get intimate. That's purely because I'm only attracted to women (and Hei from Darker than Black).

Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose

@smart_dork_dude: What if they did a flashback arc that showed him coming out? Would that help? Or has it been established that he always knew he was gay?

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@smart_dork_dude said:
@v_scarlotte_rose said:

Batwoman's actually a different character. It was established that they both existed in the main continuity, so it's not that they changed a characters sexuality.

And that just adds to my point that creating a new character is the best way to go.

Maybe creating new characters who have familiar names and concepts is the best way. Like, if they had introduced a new Green Lantern who was gay instead of Simon Baz(or just made him gay), Green Lanterns are a popular enough franchise that people would take a look, but there wouldn't be as much outcry as it was a new character who was gay from the start.

Exactly. As I told shadowx, Alan Scott being gay, actually the way DC handled the decision, is small on the list of complaints when it comes to the character. They stripped him of everything that made him who he was and then added him being gay to the mix.

Now what I would have LIKED to see if they were going to make him gay is simply have him discover he's actually gay. Do it over the course of one or two story arc byway of making it a subplot. It add character depth because we would see Alan coming to grips with it and it would give his old fans a means of transition because we would be going through this with him. THAT is how they should have handled it from the start instead of "Oh yeah, he's gay" right off the bat because that is laziness in it's purest form and shows that the entire change was a marketing ploy

Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude

@shadowx said:

@smart_dork_dude: alright thanks for clearing that up. So if you got everything else ( revamped origin, cape, lantern ,etc) but he was gay would be okay.

And yeah I know Bunker is gay.

Okay? Well it would take some getting used to, but in the long run I could honestly say it wouldn't bother me. I wouldn't be insulted by it like am right now I can tell you that much because as of right now unless DC does something to make me believe that these changes to not just Alan Scott but the entirety of the DC universe were necessary then the only comic I'm buying from them is anything Superman related(I refuse to let them beat me when it comes to Superman no matter how much I despise his new completely pointless armor!)

And really the thing that hurts me the most with Earth 2 is that it ruined my favorite team in comics

Posted by JulieDC

@smart_dork_dude: I agree and diversity is not bad but it should never come at the expense of other characters and their histories. Changing a character's race, sex, orientation or whatever is gimmicky and doesn't really address the problem. Some people will say those types of changes does not change the character, but I think it does. I think it would speak volumes for the companies if they would actually invest in diverse characters with their own histories and identities rather than just change something and say its "diversity" and "edgy". Its either laziness or pure sales gimmicks but it is not diversity.

Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose


@v_scarlotte_rose said:

Batwoman's actually a different character. It was established that they both existed in the main continuity, so it's not that they changed a characters sexuality.

And that just adds to my point that creating a new character is the best way to go.

Maybe creating new characters who have familiar names and concepts is the best way. Like, if they had introduced a new Green Lantern who was gay instead of Simon Baz(or just made him gay), Green Lanterns are a popular enough franchise that people would take a look, but there wouldn't be as much outcry as it was a new character who was gay from the start.

Posted by ShadowX

@smart_dork_dude: alright thanks for clearing that up. So if you got everything else ( revamped origin, cape, lantern ,etc) but he was gay would be okay.

And yeah I know Bunker is gay.

Edited by Smart_Dork_Dude

@shadowx said:

@smart_dork_dude: very intresting comic. The funny thing about this is that majority of the time when I see people say "lbt characters in comics are a gimmick" it comes from straight people. LGBT individuals like myself see it as simply representation which is still sorely needed. Yes you were able to name a handful of LGBT characters, but thats a tiny percentage compared to heterosexual characters.

Now I understand your concern with a pre established character. However new 52 scott is a new version of that character so in essence it is a new character. Would you have been okay with. Alan Scott if everything else about him was kept the same except he was gay? Who says Obsidian ans Jade won't come back, it is a new universe and they could have a new origin. Or if you follow the thought process that sexuality if fluid prehaps he discovers he is bisexual.

And your logic saying its the same as making a gay character straight is flawed. You see there are already hundreds of straight characters in comics and a handful of lgbt characters. So when you make one of them striaght you are already draining a small pool, meanwhile if you make a striaght charactr, into a character somewhere in the lgbt spectrum you are now adding diversity and adding to the smaller pool.

Its like lets say one kid has 12 cookies and the other kid has three. Too make it fair you give one of the 12 cookies to the kid with 3 cookies, then the kid with 12 cookies demanding that to be fair he should have one of the four cookies the other kid has.

As I said, I WANT more gay characters. I highly believe it is a demographic that deserves just as much attention as African superheroes or Asian superheroes. However such characters should not come into existence at the expense of a marketing ploy to make a character who shares the same name with an established superhero(Green Lantern) and yet put that character in a universe completely removed from the main universe especially when said character never had any connection with the other character of the same name.

It's basically like DC is saying this.

"We have a gay Green Lantern who is in no way affiliated with the Green Lantern, does not draw his power from the same source, and the only thing they have in common is a ring that can glow green and make anything they can imagine"

You see how that looks to someone who is a fan of the character? Also to tell you the truth, my main problem is the fact they completely screwed over his origin!!!! My secondary problem is that they treat the original Green Lantern with so disrespect that they change his origin(I have the same problem with Jay Garrick the original Flash, but having read his original origin story even I can admit it needed a revamp not a complete overhaul!). Seriously he doesn't even have a LANTERN to charge his ring!!!!! He doesn't have a CAPE which was what made Alan Scott even more unique for a character called Green Lantern!!!!! That's not even the tip of the iceberg with my problems with not only Alan Scott but the entire Earth 2 series as a whole!!!!

So you see? I have a LONG list of problems and Alan Scott being gay is actually quite low on the list. It still bothers me to no end about how it was handled with DC announcing it instead of allowing us to find out for ourselves. Like DC thought they needed to "warn" us like we were idiots. Look I can handle change, but only when it's REAL change and not just some marketing ploy for the sake of a demographic when they could have appealed to said demographic with a brand new character!

Also Bunker from the new Teen Titans series is gay.

Batwoman's actually a different character. It was established that they both existed in the main continuity, so it's not that they changed a characters sexuality.

And that just adds to my point that creating a new character is the best way to go.

Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose

Batwoman's actually a different character. It was established that they both existed in the main continuity, so it's not that they changed a characters sexuality.

Posted by ShadowX

@smart_dork_dude: very intresting comic. The funny thing about this is that majority of the time when I see people say "lbt characters in comics are a gimmick" it comes from straight people. LGBT individuals like myself see it as simply representation which is still sorely needed. Yes you were able to name a handful of LGBT characters, but thats a tiny percentage compared to heterosexual characters.

Now I understand your concern with a pre established character. However new 52 scott is a new version of that character so in essence it is a new character. Would you have been okay with. Alan Scott if everything else about him was kept the same except he was gay? Who says Obsidian ans Jade won't come back, it is a new universe and they could have a new origin. Or if you follow the thought process that sexuality if fluid prehaps he discovers he is bisexual.

And your logic saying its the same as making a gay character straight is flawed. You see there are already hundreds of straight characters in comics and a handful of lgbt characters. So when you make one of them striaght you are already draining a small pool, meanwhile if you make a striaght charactr, into a character somewhere in the lgbt spectrum you are now adding diversity and adding to the smaller pool.

Its like lets say one kid has 12 cookies and the other kid has three. Too make it fair you give one of the 12 cookies to the kid with 3 cookies, then the kid with 12 cookies demanding that to be fair he should have one of the four cookies the other kid has.

Posted by russellmania77

Alan Scott was a gimmick or at least bad writing on how they presented it

Edited by i_like_swords

I agree. If you're going to do anything in comics that will impact the characters in a big way, or might be considered controversial, it has to be for the right reasons and not just to spark excitement. You can kind of tell in a comic when something like changing a characters sexual orientation is being forced.

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