Log in or sign up to comment
54 Comments
  • 54 results
  • 1
  • 2
Posted by guttridgeb

I wasn't a fan of how that interaction played out, hopefully it'll be somewhat redeemed with the mind control thing...

Posted by PowerWoman

The problem is new 52 lois is not good ,She even jealous of Superman's performance

Posted by PowerWoman

so,even DC want to "lois/superman"come back,I dont think this would be a good idea,unless DC change LOIS

Posted by RazzaTazz

How interesting would it be that instead of Wonder Woman Superman had developed feelings for someone outside of his usually pattern. A black woman? A gay man? That would show a lot of development and a writer willing to challenge themselves. As this comic illustrates there is virtually no difference between Lois and Diana in appearance and so as far as appearances go they have swapped out a superpowered twin for the non superpowered one.

Moderator
Edited by PowerWoman

@razzatazz: gay man?!hell...do you want to see some like batman/superman or lex/superman....?I know why a lot people say batman is superman best wife

Posted by RazzaTazz

@powerwoman: There is really no reason for Superman to be attracted to women, except by how he was raised culturally in Smallville. Humans and Kryptonians are different species of people. It would be like if a chimpanzee was attracted to an orangutan, it just doesn't work. So by associating with Wonder Woman because of her loneliness over her powers, he is just as likely to identify with Captain Marvel or Orion and to start a romantic relationship with them.

Moderator
Posted by FadeToBlackBolt

Worst storyline romance DC has ever done.

Posted by PowerWoman

@razzatazz: OMG!!!I dont want to see superman was a gay!!!!!NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by PowerWoman

@razzatazz:And if use your logic,superman even cannot be a gay,he would be monogony man or something,but I think nobody like this,I'm sure.nobody love a monogony of superman or gay of superman

Edited by RazzaTazz

@powerwoman: Superman is not human though, he takes on the male role only because of how he is written. Imagine if you saw an alien and found them highly attractive and then were told actually by their culture that that makes you gay. Wouldn't that be kind of weird? It is basically the same thing with Superman, from a logical standpoint there is not really much stopping him from being gay at all, at least how we define it.

Moderator
Posted by PowerWoman

@razzatazz: I dont think most people like gay..not attack(sorry,if you are a gay)just basic social are not gay.at least most people not gay,also I dont think superman fans like superman was a gay,is not funny,your point just making me sick.sorry,bro,but I dont like your point,at least I dont like superman was a gay

Posted by RazzaTazz

@powerwoman: I am not saying that Superman would be gay, I am saying it is an arbitrary distinction based on how we perceive gender, and in the case of an alien, it really is quite arbitrary. Except in some "What if?" or other speculative fictional stories it is not even proven that "male" Kryptonians can mate with human females, and this hasn't really been shown since the silver age if it has. In this case it might be that "male Kryptonians are incompatible with all humans, and then what makes them gay? In the case that homosexuality implies sexual interest then there is really none even there if the characters are not genetically capable of producing offspring with the other species anyway.

Also I am not gay, but I am also not a bro.

Moderator
Posted by PowerWoman

@razzatazz: Sorry.I just hate "superman was a gay" idea

I'm more like superman was a "man" ,of course,wonder woman should be his best wife

Posted by RazzaTazz
Moderator
Posted by PowerWoman

@razzatazz: LOl...for god name,hope DC never make superman became a gay

Posted by RazzaTazz

@powerwoman: I think you are missing the point. First of all they never will, but from a technical standpoint there is nothing to make the character actually really male in the first place (unless they choose to establish this.) It could be that as far as Kryptonian culture goes that Superman already is gay by Krypton's standards. There is not enough of a back story here to tell otherwise, but maybe on Krypton there are worse insinuations of a Kryptonian that dates aliens as opposed to dating others of the same (Kryptonian) gender. This all goes back to this being a horrible idea and based in nothing but conjecture and fantasy. There is certainly not enough adequate writing behind the concept to make it work.

Moderator
Posted by Delphic

@razzatazz I read the comic last night, and I was disgusted. I was not so much disgusted over the the portrayal of Diana as I was over Superman and his friends. The fact that Lodbell decided it would be a good idea to depict Lois in a Wonder Woman costume as a means of showing Clark wasn't over Lois was very cheap, and hurt the character on levels unimaginable. Superman is becoming more and more dislikable as the series goes on.

As far as Wonder Woman, this hurt her character on the form of that she was used as an object pretty much for a cheap gushy moment. It was a pathetic display for all the characters presented in this issue.

Online
Edited by Press Oblivion

@razzatazz said:

How interesting would it be that instead of Wonder Woman Superman had developed feelings for someone outside of his usually pattern. A black woman? A gay man? That would show a lot of development and a writer willing to challenge themselves. As this comic illustrates there is virtually no difference between Lois and Diana in appearance and so as far as appearances go they have swapped out a superpowered twin for the non superpowered one.

@razzatazz said:

@powerwoman: There is really no reason for Superman to be attracted to women, except by how he was raised culturally in Smallville. Humans and Kryptonians are different species of people. It would be like if a chimpanzee was attracted to an orangutan, it just doesn't work. So by associating with Wonder Woman because of her loneliness over her powers, he is just as likely to identify with Captain Marvel or Orion and to start a romantic relationship with them.

LOL . . .this is great stuff! While there is plenty of creative merit to what you're proposing here, character development doesn't solely rest on their sexual orientation, nor does good writing. Everything that you're suggesting for Superman can just as easily be applied to any other character in any other comic with a predominantly heterosexual history.

The point that you're trying to make about Lois and Diana having no physical difference in the comic is more the stylistic execution of the illustrator rather than an intentional aspect of the written story. If Lois had brown hair and a slightly heavier build, Clark's hallucination would still have played out the same way. (Just me speculating though, perhaps it was intentional) Jim Lee draws the same faces on all of his characters too, as do other artists so when Rocafort draws Firestar you won't see a great deal of difference from her aesthetic to that of Wonder Woman or Lois.

As far as there being a disservice to any of the characters involved in this issue, I guess we can chalk that up to personal interpretation. It's no secret that you have been against the Wonder Woman & Superman paring from the beginning and it's easy to take what's been done with the relationship and see only the negative aspects of it (especially since it hasn't been very well done). You know that I'm on the other side of that fence as I have been a proponent for this relationship. This story is no different as I feel the sole purpose of this portion of the story is to further delve in to Clark's emotional bank about Lois and set up a triangle that establishes a humanity within these characters that anyone who's ever had a relationship might understand.

What's past is past and while most people will be very opinionated about their taste for the n52, but opinion aside, this is a new era for all of these characters and it's a time for new developments that may be slightly askew from what's come before. While the execution of these new ideas and directions may not be handled the way that we had hoped, or as well as we would like, it doesn't constitute a true disservice to the character or characters.

Posted by PowerWoman
Edited by Press Oblivion

@razzatazz said:

Lois shows up to the door to meet Diana (and by the way, they know that Diana is Wonder Woman, so how do they not figure out that Clark Kent is Superman?)

No one knows that she's Wonder Woman.

Edited by PowerWoman

@press_oblivion: IS mean superman like"lois/wonder woman" not "Diana/wonder woman"...?

Posted by Deranged Midget

Eh, that issue wasn't bad in terms of trying to progress Clark and Diana's relationship. In my honest opinion though, I'd much rather see Clark without a love interest for a while.

Moderator
Edited by RazzaTazz

@press_oblivion: Even worse then, they know that she is an Amazon princess but can't figure out that she is Wonder Woman:

Moderator
Edited by Press Oblivion

@razzatazz: Jimmy is hitting on Diana here. His statement is tantamount to saying baby or sweetie or darling. It's a clever quip between the writer and the audience after having introduced Diana as Diana Prince to everyone. The entire cast of characters is completely oblivious to the idea that she's Wonder Woman or an Amazon. They don't know anything.

I think others would agree.

Edited by darkman61288

@razzatazz: That an attempt at flirting by Jimmy, but you are right her disguise is terrible. Clark at lest presents himself differently when he is Clark then went he is Superman. But, Diana there is no difference between her as Diana Prince and her as Wonder Woman. At first yeah, you would not get that she is WW but as time goes by you would realizes that she is. And the point of the image of Lois in a WW costume is that if Lois had powers, he would date her in a heartbeat. In fact he would pick Lois over Diana if she had powers. The reason he didn't tell Lois his feelings for Lois is that she could get hurt by this enemies.

Edited by w0nd

@razzatazz said:

@powerwoman: There is really no reason for Superman to be attracted to women, except by how he was raised culturally in Smallville. Humans and Kryptonians are different species of people. It would be like if a chimpanzee was attracted to an orangutan, it just doesn't work. So by associating with Wonder Woman because of her loneliness over her powers, he is just as likely to identify with Captain Marvel or Orion and to start a romantic relationship with them.

Kryptonians are pretty much people from earth but better, they look the same outward, heck they have cats, dogs, horses, monkeys, it's insane really its just "super earth". So yes he can be attracted to a female for her outward appearance, I have never been attracted to a woman because of her uterus or her DNA. He is attracted to her because her physical appearance and probably her attitude.

On a side note him being gay sounds crazy but I thought the same thing about Colossus in ultimate Xmen and then it became trivial.

Posted by Press Oblivion

@press_oblivion: IS mean superman like"lois/wonder woman" not "Diana/wonder woman"...?

It means that he has feelings for Lois even though he's seeing Diana. Lobdel has been pressing this point since issue 13. I hope it leads to the strengthening of the Souperman & Wonder Woman realationship but I feel that it will lead to the dismantling of it in the long run. Lobdel has shown Superman to have been dismissive of Wonder Woman in the past, during H'El on Earth and she seemed disappointed by his action. Things may unravel before they have a chance to solidify.

As the thematic content of Superhero Comics have changed over the years, so has Superman. Superman spent around 50 years dodging Lois and friends never revealing his hero identity to them. Lois was never really into Clark, she dreamed the impossible and wanted to be with Superman, never considering that Superman & Clark were one and the same. . . . Lois and Superman were never meant to be together just as Diana & Steve would never be together until the world didn't need a Wonder Woman any longer.

These human / super human relationships were never meant to be more than the tension of a possible romance and nothing else because the heroes duty was the greater priority. There is also the age old problem of said hero's enemies using their loved ones as leverage against the hero.

Posted by RazzaTazz

@delphic: Yes pretty weak indeed. I am not sure how fans read this every month. Even the beginning was stunted and cliched. It makes me happy that I didnt read whatever cliffhanger there was in issue 18.

Moderator
Edited by RazzaTazz

@press_oblivion: OK even if so, she looks like Wonder Woman, argues with being called princess to which (which most people would find peculiar for how she disagreed with it) and she is surrounded by people who routinely investigate the truth and try to look through peoples' stories.

As to your other comments about liking this romance but not its execution, the lack of execution is because of reasons identified at the beginning of the relationship. The reason it feels so weird, awkward and clunky is because that is all that it could be between these two. The motivation for being together set this relationship up for failure.

Moderator
Posted by Press Oblivion

@delphic: @razzatazz: I think you two are really reading way too much into this. Just my opinion.

@delphic said:

@razzatazz I read the comic last night, and I was disgusted. I was not so much disgusted over the the portrayal of Diana as I was over Superman and his friends. The fact that Lodbell decided it would be a good idea to depict Lois in a Wonder Woman costume as a means of showing Clark wasn't over Lois was very cheap, and hurt the character on levels unimaginable. Superman is becoming more and more dislikable as the series goes on.

As far as Wonder Woman, this hurt her character on the form of that she was used as an object pretty much for a cheap gushy moment. It was a pathetic display for all the characters presented in this issue.

What would you have done differently? Either in this issue or the series as a whole?

@delphic: Yes pretty weak indeed. I am not sure how fans read this every month.

There really aren't too many other places to get Superman stories. Just like I'm not too happy with the Wonder Woman title but there's no other place to get Wonder Woman stories.

Posted by Delphic

@delphic: Yes pretty weak indeed. I am not sure how fans read this every month. Even the beginning was stunted and cliched. It makes me happy that I didn't read whatever cliffhanger there was in issue 18.

The beginning was a farce, and in my opinion its an obvious sign that Lodbell is not even trying.

@press_oblivion: At first I wanted to believe that the Wonder Woman/Superman relationship would work, but so far nothing has been done with it that hasn't felt forced. What I would have done differently is I would have had Superman not even bother with another woman and focus more on being Superman and Clark Kent. Life is not all about whose panties you are sniffing, but so far that seems to be what the direction of Superman's main title is all about.

Online
Edited by darkman61288

@delphic: This is a clip from a recent interview with Geoff Johns on Buzzfeed. Notice he says when not if.

Any chance of Wonder Woman and Superman making it through this story arc with their relationship intact?

GJ: I think the bigger question is will you see any of these characters make it through. The thing about Wonder Woman and Superman is when their relationship ends, it's going to end badly. There is no good way for this one to end. And then there's other concerns. When those two start acting out together, people get nervous. Not because they don't think they're heroes, but because they have such incredible power, and who could stop those two?

Now want to know will one of those two be killed off?

Posted by Press Oblivion

@press_oblivion: OK even if so, she looks like Wonder Woman, argues with being called princess to which (which most people would find peculiar for how she disagreed with it) and she is surrounded by people who routinely investigate the truth and try to look through peoples' stories.

Yeah that's totally plausible and well within reason but it's not the case here. Jimmy Olsen has been written as a talented dullard from the beginning of this whole n52 mess and isn't that keen to deduce that Clark is dating a Superhero. He was trying to appeal to her by sweetly, yet laughably, playing on her name. While you perceive that she looks like Wonder Woman, the characters see a 6 foot tall supermodel in a business casual suit.

As to your other comments about liking this romance but not its execution, the lack of execution is because of reasons identified at the beginning of the relationship. The reason it feels so weird, awkward and clunky is because that is all that it could be between these two. The motivation for being together set this relationship up for failure.

That isn't all that it could be between these two. You're saying this as if it's fact, more specifically it's your perception of Wonder Woman & Superman and you're closed to the notion that it could be good. There are many who share your view and that's all well and good but but to state it so definitively the way you have is not fair and undermines creative potential.

The only fact here is that it's written poorly at every opportunity and perhaps it's fair to say what you've said about their relationship starting out wrong, leading to its eventual failure but there hasn't been one point since it's inception to expound on any character traits that would make them exceptional together, either. It's a recurring subplot in 2 comics that come out once a month.

Posted by Delphic

@darkman61288: I don't think anyone will really die, but we'll probably have another one of those story-arcs like we did after the OMAC project where the trinity goes their separate ways for a while.

Online
Posted by Press Oblivion

@delphic said:

@press_oblivion: At first I wanted to believe that the Wonder Woman/Superman relationship would work, but so far nothing has been done with it that hasn't felt forced. What I would have done differently is I would have had Superman not even bother with another woman and focus more on being Superman and Clark Kent. Life is not all about whose panties you are sniffing, but so far that seems to be what the direction of Superman's main title is all about.

I agree, I would have liked to see Superman without that love angle for a little bit and if it was to be Wonder Woman, I would have much preferred a slow build up. As I've said elsewhere I would have like to see this done in about 5 or more years and really treat this like something sincere.

@darkman61288 said:

@delphic: Now want to know will one of those two be killed off?

LOL. Highly unlikely. Even if it were like that, it's wouldn't last for long.

Edited by RazzaTazz

@press_oblivion: I am pretty open minded, I tried to be open to the idea of the two of them, it is just being horribly executed.

Moderator
Posted by RazzaTazz

@press_oblivion: I can't speak conclusively because I have only read the one issue, but it seems very much like the secondary characters in this series are two dimensional props.

Moderator
Edited by Press Oblivion

@press_oblivion: I am pretty open minded, I tried to be open to the idea of the two of them, it is just being horribly executed.

I can't argue with you there. It breaks my heart to see something that I have been waiting for, so long, be bobbled and fumbled so badly . . . perhaps they should have never done it at all . . .

@press_oblivion: I can't speak conclusively because I have only read the one issue, but it seems very much like the secondary characters in this series are two dimensional props.

That's fair. True the book isn't stellar reading and the characterizations could and should be fuller but we have what we have. Once upon a time Superman had 5 monthly titles to explore characters and threats in greater depth I don't foresee that happening again any time soon.

Edited by SandMan_

@razzatazz: Well...This had potential and now they just shoved it down the toiler. So much for ''New'' 52.

Posted by RazzaTazz

@press_oblivion: I am merely suggesting that as it is so bad, that maybe it was never meant to be good. Maybe it can't be ... have you read Wonder Woman #226? I thought that was an excellent representation of the two of them. Or For Tomorrow. What they have now makes no sense.

Moderator
Edited by Dernman

If I misread a point then forgive me I just skimmed.

New 52 Superman and Lois have been shown to have had had a kid before the timeline was altered in Superboy. The genes were incompatible but unless they went some kind of artificial procedure and there is no suggestion that they did they had to had to have mated. If they did go artificial I think with their science they would have picked up on the fact the genes were not compatible.

As far as the Lois wearing the WW costume I don't see it the way you suggested at all. It was more of Hector Hammond manipulation causing a hallucination and manifestation of his feeling for the two woman.

Lois wearing WW costume was an easy way for the writers to combine the two characters. The costume also represents WW superhero side and the things he might appreciation because of it. Like he doesn't have to worry about protection her as much because she has powers equal to his, the fact that she like not many others can understand and share the position who being who they are (biggest and most powerful beings/symbols). I could go on but I'm lazy and exhausted my interest in the point I was trying to make. I think how the costume looked wasn't even a factor in why Lois in the costume.

Also everyone was being manipulated to act in a very twisted version of themselves by Hector Hammoned so you can't put to much stock in the way they were acting as an accurate representation of the characters.

But like I said I just skimmed this article so..........

Posted by RazzaTazz

@dernman: So Hector Hammond was also responsible for the bad writing?

Moderator
Edited by Dernman

@dernman: So Hector Hammond was also responsible for the bad writing?

I would not defend Lobdell as a writer. I have my own problems with him myself. I'm just disagreeing with what was being represented in the comic from what I got from skimming your blog. One of those things being Lobdell has Hector give everyone the mind mickey and what the costume represented.

Posted by RazzaTazz

@dernman: You are making excuses and I am being overly critical, there is not really a middle ground here. Better to agree to disagree.

Moderator
Posted by deaditegonzo

Everything @press_oblivion said. He literally has this down pact.

But to show im reasonable, I will say, if Diana and Clark split up, fine i'll be upset because of how much of an opportunity was thrown down the toilet, but it wont be any huge loss as there have really only been 3 instances of this relationship shown: 1) Supes getting Diana a Secret Identity 2) Their date in Justice League and 3) This issue which is the only one that even tried.

But, as @press_oblivion said, while his feelings for Lois and his being torn over which one he truly wants could STRENGTHEN and improve Clark and Diana's relationship, I think this is going to be used to unravel it. The only thing I hope is that Superman gets FAR AWAY from Lois, as someone else said, she needs to be changed, and for two, ITS POINTLESS, BORING, and MAKES THEM SPLITTING UP SEEM LIKE A WASTE OF OUR TIME. Seriously, I was severely against them being "divorced", but once it happened, I moved forward, "Ok, well what can we do with this?" It appears DCs answer was to set Superman continuity back 80 years. I was stoked when Wonder Woman was shown to be his new SO and it was even called the new Status Quo, they could actually make for interesting stories, and WW and Supes are actually a good pairing, but then, whether due to fan complaints or just bad writers, its already in the trash and it never left the back burner.

As long as Supes dates somebody else other than Lois, i'll be happy. Id be ok with LL being killed off entirely, to really start a new chapter.

Posted by RazzaTazz

@deaditegonzo: Sure, but you seem like a Superman fan, not a Wonder Woman fan.

Moderator
Edited by deaditegonzo

@razzatazz said:

@deaditegonzo: Sure, but you seem like a Superman fan, not a Wonder Woman fan.

They are probably my favourite male and female characters actually. But I will say the version of Wonder Woman you enjoy is VERY important here. I hate the Azarello Wonder Woman, I love the more Comic Book-y, superheroine Wonder Woman. I never thought Id say something like this, but I prefer Justice League Wonder Woman to her self-titled.

But seriously, DC has totally dropped the ball on this relationship. Its absolutely shameful. Id say Superman #19 is one of the few books that doesnt exactly fall into that category, as it has the potential, but like anything else in comics it needs an arc. Since DC doesnt seem interested in doing anything with it (maybe it was a huge scam to sell more copies of the announcement issue, and then build up anticipation amongst angry fans to sell more of the break-up issue), I really just want Superman to move onto other relationships far from Lois. Same for Wonder Woman, if she got with Steve Trevor, who seems completely undesirable in the New 52 IMO, it would be pretty lame. I hope she dates around too. Thats actually what I want overall, is for both of them to grow, and develop, and learn more about relationships, and then find eachother again when matured. Ending in a "Kingdom Come-esque" mature, heroic, and romantic relationship.

Posted by Dernman

@dernman: You are making excuses and I am being overly critical, there is not really a middle ground here. Better to agree to disagree.

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree but I fail to see how I'm making excuses. The Hector manipulation of characters at the party is factual and the costume scene is what I was thinking while reading long before I ever saw your blog. I didn't skim your blog as overly critical just not an accurate interpretation of what was going on which I believe we are agreeing to disagree. Which is an good way to leave it.

I have my own problems with him as a writer.

He's terrible with dialogue.

His varied distinction between characters over his books is lacking.

I also don't like or agree with his interpretation/presentation of characters more often then not.

Posted by Mercy_

Can't say I'm surprised.

Moderator
  • 54 results
  • 1
  • 2