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Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

I love the Fantastic Four, 616 and 6160 and I love the Future Foundation. Family Dynamic + Crazy Science Adventures = Awesome

Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose

@jointron33: Apparently it's Art Adams and Art Thibert.

Posted by jointron33
Edited by Night Thrasher

@captain13: The Ultimate team was good IMO. But the 616 version is by far superior to me. The growth and inclusion of Franklin and Valeria just adds to the intrigue for me. Plus, no Franklin and no Valeria and no this:

Posted by Captain13

The 616 team just feels very white-bread, vanilla, and antiquated. They're bogged down by too many kids and they seem to old to appeal to the 18-35 male crowd.

That's why the only version of the Fantastic Four that I've enjoyed was the first 18 issues of Ultimate Fantastic Four, an underrated and extremely good set of issues. The characters are younger and more modern. There's interpersonal drama, mystery, interesting pseudo-science, great writing, and great art. No kids. Lots of heart. I hope Josh Trank's reboot draws more from Ultimate Fantastic Four than 616 Fantastic Four.

In fact, the Ultimate Fantastic Four is my favorite superhero team of all time!

Edited by DATNIGGA

@v_scarlotte_rose: If they were to expand. The difference would still lie in what they do as a team. Exploring/Dealing with aliens ect..... part of the problem is though the avengers have expanded in to every category everywhere. be it mutant problems (x men) or extra terrestrial scientific (fantastic 4) and has collectively taken many of the fantastic 4's enemies as well.

this whole thing the avengers are currently dealing with. BIO evolution bombs set off by the alein god ex nihilo that is literally RIGHT up the fantastic 4's alley. but where are they? in space....

whither they expand or remain 4 they just need to be bad ass superhero's again. not just a super family that baby sits a child that doesn't grow up. if superheros aren't doings bad ass things well... things get boring after awhile. and that seems to have happened cause without good villains or a constant purpose a story can't possibly hope to hold up

Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose

@datnigga: I'm very new to the ideas of the Future Foundation(started reading with Fraction/Allred FF), but it seems like it could be a good way of bringing in new characters, like a sort of X-Men Academy/Avengers Academy sort of thing(haven't read either so I could be wrong about how they do things).

What would make the teams different though? I know at the moment that the classic team are in space, and the stand-in team are in New York, so where would be a good place to base another Fantastic team? Maybe Fantastic Four West Coast?

I really don't know much Fantastic Four information having only read less than 20 or so Fantastic Four/FF comics, so I can't really offer many in depth suggestions.

Posted by DATNIGGA

@v_scarlotte_rose: I think they should've used the concept of the Future foundation to open up the possibility of adding new unique characters to the franchise. Namorita a kree another alien maybe teenaged fraklin (with a secondary mutation thats not so overpowered) or something of that nature... making the team more than 4 making them expand to bigger and better things.

The avengers are expanding through out the marvel Universe

the x men are split up again. but all doing interesting things with the return of mutants

and spiderman is superior and is getting his own band of minions soon

everybody is growing and expanding except the Fantastic 4

Posted by Jonny_Anonymous

I love FF, I think they are much more interesting than Avengers

Posted by RustyRoy
Posted by Herokiller12344

Because they suck, why do you think there good villains like Doom and Annihilus moved to other galleries?

Posted by RustyRoy

I like F4 but the reasons they're not popular is because :

  • They don't have a successful movie. The first two movies were pretty bad.
  • They're villains are more interesting them. One needs to be as interesting as their enemies to be likable.
  • Marvel isn't interested in them that much. Every Marvel events revolve around X-Men and Avengers and the F4 are mostly ignored, their villain's are used more in other books than their own book.
Posted by Nova`Prime`

The problem I always had with the F4 was the same problem I have with Star Trek... they always come up with some crazy outlandish psuedo science answer for every problem. Its more like the Reed Richards comic and the other three are background characters.

Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose

@rustyroy: I hadn't even thought about the reboot. It'll be interesting to see if it makes a difference.

Edited by RustyRoy

@v_scarlotte_rose: If the reboot is successful then they'll probably 5-6 books and an event as a bonus.

Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose

Maybe if they had 5-10 different titles they'd be able to match the Avengers and X-Men in popularity. Mighty Four, Uncanny Four, Fantastic Force, etc.

Could happen. There is two Fantastic Fours at the moment after all(sort of).

Posted by MyNameWasDeleted

+1 boring

They also never felt very accessible to me for some reason, almost as if they could never be defeated- who wants to be bothered reading a story with so little struggle and even less payoff... I mean the guy's already got the girl, the only drama was poor old Ben and he always struck me as a grumpy stick in the mud. Basically there was no reason to invest my paper route money, or my time walking up to the 7-11 and 'eyeball sweat' reading it.

Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21

Probably because there are more popular characters like Hulk, Spiderman and Wolverine making the FF an after thought.

They're also more interesting when they're exploring and discovering other places.

Edited by Night Thrasher

@banestrokelobogrundybatarrow: @juliedc: @godtriggerhulk: @datnigga: I will be the first to admit that the FF can be boring in the hands of a writer not ready to handle such a book. I equate the team to the San Antonio Spurs. To a casual fan they don't have the flash and pop of the more popular teams but, in to someone who can appreciate comics/basketball in its purity it something to marvel at (no pun intended). I feel the FF is at its essence a pure adventure book and that's what comics are based on.

Posted by Fuchsia_Nightingale

Lack of any interest from the Big wigs

Posted by GodTriggerHulk
Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose

Honestly the idea of the Fantastic Four is cooler than the characters deserve. A bunch of heroes living together and exploring the Marvel Universe is a cool concept but Reed and Sue suck the energy out of the room with their blandness. They should change the FF's lineup: how about Spider-Man, Wolverine, The Hulk and Dr. Doom. That oughta liven things up!

Replace Dr. Doom with Ghostrider, and it did happen once:

Posted by JulieDC

I want to like them because I like the human torch but the stuff I have read (the story arc where human torch "died") was confusing and all the science talk was boring and eventually it just wore me out. I don't know if it is always like that and would like to read more but I am kind of hesitant to give it another go.

Edited by GodTriggerHulk

Honestly the idea of the Fantastic Four is cooler than the characters deserve. A bunch of heroes living together and exploring the Marvel Universe is a cool concept but Reed and Sue suck the energy out of the room with their blandness. They should change the FF's lineup: how about Spider-Man, Wolverine, The Hulk and Dr. Doom. That oughta liven things up!

Edited by turoksonofstone

No Kirby, No cool Reed in his Lab stories. IMO

Posted by BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow

I only like the thing but I do love the FF

Posted by BaneStrokeLoboGrundyBatArrow

I only like the thing

Edited by DATNIGGA

@night_thrasher: The fantastic 4 Are Iconic no doubt. but whenever I read about them Idk its boring to me some how....

The issues ive liked have been the ones involving certain guest appearances. Like Dr Doom (cause hes a boss) the avengers, x men, spiderman, ect.... they work good in dynamic with another no so much by themselves in my opinion.

by themselves its like...

Human tourch and & thing fight/play with each other while reed is studying/analyzing something and Sue is baby sitting franklin (who's been a incompetent child since the onslaught saga)

so without someone stealing there kid, galactus showing up or them doing something remotely interesting.... they suck most of the time.

I liked hickmans run tho for some reason...

Posted by Night Thrasher

@billy_batson: Because the 1610 universe FF characters are very different from the mainstream versions. For one, they're all younger, Sue was a biochemist, Ben had more contempt for Reed, Doom mutated in the explosion, etc. There are enough differences that one could assume that if given the chance and having to work with 616 continuity that Ellis would tell a vastly different story. Not saying his 1610 version wasn't good, but I wouldn't say that his approach to 616 would be similar.

Edited by Billy Batson

@reignmaker:

Yeah, Hitman is awesome.

@night_thrasher said:

Neither really counts because Morrison did a mini-series and Ellis did 1610 FF. Neither have done 616 FF yet to my knowledge

Don't really see why it doesn't count it being Ultimate FF. Many consider Bendis and Millar as some of the best and important writers for the characters that they wrote for (Spidey and The Ultimates/Avengers).

BB

Posted by Night Thrasher

@night_thrasher said:

@sc said:

Basically I think this book needs Grant Morrison heh heh.

Honestly I was going to make this a series of blogs and my next two were going to be "Why Grant Morrison should write Fantastic Four" and "Why Warren Ellis should write Fantastic Four". Dude you mindraped me!

Well both of them already wrote the Fantastic Four. Not for very long, though.

BB

Neither really counts because Morrison did a mini-series and Ellis did 1610 FF. Neither have done 616 FF yet to my knowledge

Posted by Reignmaker

@night_thrasher said:

@sc said:

Basically I think this book needs Grant Morrison heh heh.

Honestly I was going to make this a series of blogs and my next two were going to be "Why Grant Morrison should write Fantastic Four" and "Why Warren Ellis should write Fantastic Four". Dude you mindraped me!

Well both of them already wrote the Fantastic Four. Not for very long, though.

BB

I respect that avatar.

Posted by Billy Batson

@sc said:

Basically I think this book needs Grant Morrison heh heh.

Honestly I was going to make this a series of blogs and my next two were going to be "Why Grant Morrison should write Fantastic Four" and "Why Warren Ellis should write Fantastic Four". Dude you mindraped me!

Well both of them already wrote the Fantastic Four. Not for very long, though.

BB

Posted by Hazlenaut

A good intro one is needed. The 2000 version underwhelms me compared to the two intros from the 90s. I like them peppy which right now Marvel isn't at the time. Are they out overly dark drama yet? I liked the moment when Thing went to France during the Civil War as he was fun.

Posted by mrdecepticonleader

Mephisto isn't really a Fantastic Four villain.He first appeared as a foe to Silver Surfer,then later Thor and he has really become a major foe of Ghost Rider.I really wouldn't consider him a major FF 4 villain.

Also I think Dr Doom works better as a foe to other characters as well.I think he has outgrown the Fantastic Four,certainly in terms of popularity.

@sc said:

Fantastic Four suffers a lot from competition, and really this is something that a lot of various historic comic book teams and characters have had to deal with, but a lot of Marvel and DC characters succeed and sell by either being relatable to fans (as opposed to being realistic) or by tapping into certain wish fulfillment fantasies and power trips for fans. Earlier on this was okay as Fantastic Four offered things other books couldn't touch, many things you mention in your blog (which was superbly written by the way) but now days those things aren't exclusive to Fantastic Four anymore. Many modern indy comic books have better hard science and better fantasy science than Fantastic Four. Planetary I found did Fantastic Four better than modern day Fantastic Four. Hickman did pretty good, especially in comparison to other modern writers but even his stories I found disappointing. Fans basically have alternatives as far as comic science. I similar problem exists with characters like Superman who use to do better comic sales wise when he was the only flying powerhouse character with his name on a cover.

Oh and the villain point is a great one, except not only do so many other comic series in Marvel get to use the villains who appeared in Fantastic Four first, but arguably some comic book series utilize such villains even better than Fantastic Four do. I tend to enjoy the Celestials in Thor more (and to be fair they appeared there before FF) but even Galactus I tend to prefer in mini series or series with Surfer as main star or Thor again, or Avengers. Anyway just that they appear so many places dilutes their draw as far as FF.

I basically think there are a lot of ways to make Fantastic Four successful, but get the combination wrong and the book will suffer and that balance is a lot trickier to get right than say Justice League, X-Men or Hulk. I think Fantastic Four basically does best when its a team of explorers who happen to be family exploring the nooks, crannies, corners of the Marvel Universe - introducing us to cool and strange concepts, realities, characters. Except whoever is the writer needs to do that better than any other book out there does. Basically I think this book needs Grant Morrison heh heh.

Now that is a good idea.

Posted by Jorgevy

@jorgevy: @lvenger: Sarcasm folks

hahaha awesome gif, loved that movie and that actress

o another note, night trasher, if that was sarcasm you utterly failed. first, its hard to translate well into the internet. second, it made no sense. that's why I even assumed you were being serious

the only reason adults watched and it was a sucess was because it's a movie. okay, there were other reasons but mainly because it was a movie. an animated movie, which adults already recognize as art and great flicks to watch in family and even by yourself and which have adult humor and themes present even if their aimed at kids

so that's EXTREMELLY different from a comic book

just like

@night_thrasher said:

@reignmaker: @fodigg: @jorgevy: Exactly!....Which was the exact reason why The Incredibles was a huge flop! And no adult will ever watch it!

Well, now you're talking about something that was marketed for a different audience. How well do you think "Incredibles: the comic book!" would do in today's market?

yah, I wonder how good Incredible the comic book would sell if there was no movie.

familly only sells

AND I ALREADY SAID IT, in the screens. because people can actually see and feel the empathy and it's the most desirable form of media for an actual family. they can sit in the couch and watch it on tv or on the blu ray or whatever, or they can go all on a sunday morning to the cinema and watch the movie all together.

so yeah family sells, ON THE SCREEN.

it certainly doesnt sell in a media that is not only very demographic specific, but also extremlly prejudiced by adults in general

Edited by Kawowoi

I personaly am not a fan of fantastic 4, they don't have the spark that Avengers have.

Posted by tupiaz

@tupiaz: The family structure is not what it was 30 years ago. To start with is the addition of Valeria. Franklin has been aged, deaged nonexistent, nonpowered, overpowered, omnipotent, etc since. Alicia Masters used to be a huge part of the book which she isn't any more. We've added several new characters from different corners of the Marvel universe including Dragon Man and Moloids to the supporting cast. And we've moved from the Baxter Building, to Four Freedoms Plaza, to a warehouse on the harbor and back to the Baxter Building. I would say there have been more changes in Fantastic Four during the past 30 years then there have been in Batman, Wolverine, Superman or Justice League.

Franklin is still a kid he is what 10-12 years old? He hasn't made it into adulthood. Batman has by the way changed much since the 80's before Miller took over. The whole reboot changed him to a much darker character. Also wolverine is perhaps one of the characters that changed very little even though he got his adamantium skeleton removed got wild got it back. His back story both how he got his adamantium skeleton and how he was raisedHow old he was ect. The family structure is still the same whatever they live in a warehouse or in the Baxter building. The Thing and Human Touch is still the wild once and Susan and Richards are the parents for the whole family. Let Franklin become teenager and let that change things. Let The Thing and Johnny settle down a little. Let them some how change age instead of being the same since they got release let there be some character evolution.

Posted by knighthood

Boring?!? I can't believe so many people are hating on the 4.

Posted by RustyRoy

Their biggest problem is that they're villains are far more awesome than them.

Posted by Night Thrasher

@tupiaz: The family structure is not what it was 30 years ago. To start with is the addition of Valeria. Franklin has been aged, deaged nonexistent, nonpowered, overpowered, omnipotent, etc since. Alicia Masters used to be a huge part of the book which she isn't any more. We've added several new characters from different corners of the Marvel universe including Dragon Man and Moloids to the supporting cast. And we've moved from the Baxter Building, to Four Freedoms Plaza, to a warehouse on the harbor and back to the Baxter Building. I would say there have been more changes in Fantastic Four during the past 30 years then there have been in Batman, Wolverine, Superman or Justice League.

Posted by tupiaz

@tupiaz: No, it's actually speculation. Your opinion is actually you speculating. By saying "since I haven't read that much FF since John Byrne run I'm not sure the series status is still the same", you were actually stating that you are speculating. I would say that if you read some more recent stuff and still felt that way then it would be something else entirely.

I think that the book has changed significantly since the Byrne run and the Byrne run in itself was a run of significant changes. Which is to say that if the book changed completely from the Byrne run to the original status quo, then it has changed significantly.

But it is stil an opinion. If it is based on speculation (i would rather say limited knowledge). That my opinion is based on speculation or limited knowledge dosen't make my opinion less of an opinion. You can claim that it is less valid but that is an another question. But it is still these subjects that keeps me from the book. It still seems like the same family structure that it was 30 years ago.

Edited by Night Thrasher

@tupiaz: No, it's actually speculation. Your opinion is actually you speculating. By saying "since I haven't read that much FF since John Byrne run I'm not sure the series status is still the same", you were actually stating that you are speculating. I would say that if you read some more recent stuff and still felt that way then it would be something else entirely.

I think that the book has changed significantly since the Byrne run and the Byrne run in itself was a run of significant changes. Which is to say that if the book changed completely from the Byrne run to the original status quo, then it has changed significantly.

Edited by tupiaz

@night_thrasher said:

@tupiaz: It seems to me that you going more on speculation than actually opinion. The Lee/Kirby run had very few "character building" issues and were mostly action driven. The latest Hickman run was a continuation of the original Lee/Kirby run with action on a grand scope. The family aspect of the book is a big part but that doesn't mean they sit around eating waffles all day instead of doing things. If Bruce Wayne is still younger than 50 after about 75 years of publication then Franklin doesn't have to be a teenager or Johnny Storm doesn't have to start a family. Besides any publication were This happens shouldn't ever be considered boring

No it is my opinion however since I haven't read that much FF since John Byrne run I'm not sure the series status is still the same. However keeping the status quo in the family (that mean with supporting characters) that isn┬Ęt happening anything new. Most other series have some change in their relationship. And yeah the thing has been out and Johnny Storm has been dead. However it seems like the series haven't updated much.

Edited by Night Thrasher

@tupiaz: It seems to me that you going more on speculation than actually opinion. The Lee/Kirby run had very few "character building" issues and were mostly action driven. The latest Hickman run was a continuation of the original Lee/Kirby run with action on a grand scope. The family aspect of the book is a big part but that doesn't mean they sit around eating waffles all day instead of doing things. If Bruce Wayne is still younger than 50 after about 75 years of publication then Franklin doesn't have to be a teenager or Johnny Storm doesn't have to start a family. Besides any publication were This happens shouldn't ever be considered boring

Edited by Reignmaker

@night_thrasher said:

@reignmaker: The point was that family oriented does not automatically limit sells. The Incredibles was an awesome movie that kids enjoyed as well as adults. The fact is that the movie has incredible crossover with the comics demographic. The same people who would call Fantastic Four boring would watch The Incredibles at about a 80% ratio. The fact that The Incredibles was based on The Fantastic Four model makes it even more ironic.

Yes, I agree with you that many comic fans liked The Incredibles (even though I recognize your ratio is a guesstimate). But I still think you're comparing apples to oranges. We're talking about why the Fantastic Four comic book isn't as popular as other hero books. Show me a family friendly comic book that's a bestseller, and your argument will be stronger. People don't want to read an Incredibles comic book in their spare time. It would do just as bad as FF, if not worse.

We're not just talking about right now either, since the '80s readers have been purchasing darker comics with more edgy themes. These books make up most of the current market. I don't agree with the majority's taste, but that's the reality. Family friendly, bubble-filled adventures don't sell as well the current comic book market. And the numbers have backed that up. If family books did do well, DC and Marvel would be pumping out more. They're not. They're making more mutant and batman comics.

Posted by tupiaz

The turn off point is that it is a family and nothing much seems to have happen (I have only read some Stan Lee and Byrne stories). However it is about time that Franklin becomes a teenager (or how old did he become when his age was altered?). Maybe have some family problems about this. The family picture and status should have change by now. You should also let Johnny Storm grove up and start his own family (as far as I know it has been tried but never fully done).

Posted by Night Thrasher

@reignmaker: The point was that family oriented does not automatically limit sells. The Incredibles was an awesome movie that kids enjoyed as well as adults. The fact is that the movie has incredible crossover with the comics demographic. The same people who would call Fantastic Four boring would watch The Incredibles at about a 80% ratio. The fact that The Incredibles was based on The Fantastic Four model makes it even more ironic.

Posted by Reignmaker

@reignmaker: @fodigg: @jorgevy: Exactly!....Which was the exact reason why The Incredibles was a huge flop! And no adult will ever watch it!

Well, now you're talking about something that was marketed for a different audience. How well do you think "Incredibles: the comic book!" would do in today's market?

Edited by fodigg

@night_thrasher said:

@reignmaker: @fodigg: @jorgevy: Exactly!....Which was the exact reason why The Incredibles was a huge flop! And no adult will ever watch it!

god, that was such a great movie.

Edit: and I get your point but I think that's the exception more than the rule, at least in comics. I'd love for it to be done better, but it hasn't been.

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