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Posted by guillermogutierrez

Nice List you can Mencion



Leo Roa





Lone Wolf and Cub

Edited by Liberty

Shouldn't Bone, Tom Strong, Hellboy and Lara Croft be on here as well? Still a dope list.

Tom Strong, Hellboy and Lara Croft do not have enough 'self titled' issues. (see guidelines above" I counted Bone under the first rule. Thanks, BTW.

Posted by johnny_blaze

Shouldn't Bone, Tom Strong, Hellboy and Lara Croft be on here as well? Still a dope list.

Posted by MannEffest

Wow… Dude this is probably the most involved thread I've seen, props to all you do!!

Posted by ReVamp

The Amount of Work you put into this... Mindblowing.

Posted by difficlus

Another great list liberty! 
Thank you...

Posted by deadpool1109

I recommend checking up on the Phantom's publications by Indian publishers. You'll find a lot more on the ghost who walks.

Posted by jumpstart55

Sweet list. 
Very interesting lol.

Posted by Wurl124

Nice list.  I applaud the hard work. 

Posted by ArtisticNeedham

I read this, but can you give me a summary of it.
I agree that its important to know what came before, right now I am reading Amazing Spider-Man by Stan Lee and John Romita (read from Amazing Spider-Man #1 by Lee and Dikto and now up to ASM #46 I think it is.  Thank you Marvel Master Works) as well as MMW's Captain America vol. 1, the Avengers vol. 1, the X-Men vol. 1, and Fantastic Four volumes 1-4 (just shy of the intro of the Inhumans, Silver Surfer and Galactus... MUST get vol. 5)
I have also tried my best to read other important books like Crisis on Infinite Earth, Squadron Supreme, Year One, Dark Knight Returns, and so on.
If you really want a great history of comics check out History Chanel's Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked.  Go to a place that rents its, or sells it, or shows it, and rent it, or buy it, and watch it!
Its great, it covers comics from almost the beginning.
I learned in a class that it started with drawings in a magazine sold to the poorer public, And it started as a single drawing (like a political drawing), then (according to a Jack Kirby interview on youtube) you add a few panels to that and you get a comic strip.  Then pulbishers started noticing that those sold enough that they could make money buy selling collections of comic strips (like a best of your favorite comic strip in a cheap paper magazine form).  Then after some time a company created their very own original character for one of those cheap paper magazines.  And that led to superheroes and funny comics, and that lead to us today.
The DVD also covers the rise and fall (WWII), then rise and fall again (Comics on Trial), and then the rise and fall yet again (Collectors in the 90s), of comics over the years.
I have also watched, if you guys want to check these out too, The Amazing Story of Superman, Marvel's Guide to New York (shows real spots around New York used by Marvel, added with shots of real people acting like Superheroes, and comic shots to compare them the real buildings to), the Psychology of Batman, and the Psychology of Superman and Batman.
Something I have noticed by reading these old issues is how amazing some of the character we find mundane today were treated, like the Vulture.  Not sure if it was just Stan but they acted as though no one had dreamed a man could fly.  Some characters are even considered so mundane today that they need retooling and added powers to them.
I also read a few pages of a Ditko bio, and it talks about how his following the teachings of Ayn Rand effected Spider-Man comics and maybe even his leaving Spider-man.

Posted by Silkcuts

You missed Cerebus.  The longest running indie book at 300.

Posted by Liberty
@jrh7925:    Yes, I counted it but I will go back and double check.   I have those books and read them myself.
Posted by jrh7925

Awesome list! Very comprehensive, and an interesting objective way to gauge characters.
If you don't mind me being a bit nitpicky, I'd like to point out more issues for Turok: When Valiant bought the Gold Key properties, they relaunched Turok. He had a 48-issue run with them.

Posted by Duo_forbidden

*Whistles*  Man this is one hell of a list. I can tell you work extremely hard on this. Great job!

Posted by Shadowsnake89

This is a great list. I never some of the older characters would have had that many issues in one run.

Posted by Violet-Eyed Dragon

i love the list ive never seen one in which more effort went in.  
i want to make a few corrections but dont be insulted i just wanted to let you know.  :)
Deadpool has had 4 ongoing solo series:  "Deadpool," "Deadpool V2," "Deadpool V3," "Merc with a Mouth."   Hes also had a bunch of minis and one-shots plus three team-up series.  
Spider-men has had 8 ongoing solo series:  "Amazing Spider-Man," "Sensational Spider-Man," "Spectacular Spider-Man," "Sensational Spider-Man V2," Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man," "Untold Tales of Spider-Man," "Ultimate Spider-Man," "Marvel Adventures Spider-Man," and a newspaper comic.  and im not counting the webs.  
but great job :)

Posted by Illyana Rasputin

Great List!

Posted by Liberty
@Wise Son: I agree with a lot of what you said.  Superman is a little cliche today but it wasn't always that way. The Spirit was a bigger surprise to me being second.  I never thought he would be so high on the list.
Posted by Wise Son
@Liberty: I commented on a crap load of your list I figured why not do the one yo asked me to do. Let me get this out of the way first, the effort put in this is just short of Spartan. And we all know about those Spartans. Props man as this took a good deal of research. Liberty, you're a man among boys when it comes to being a contributer. Now onto the list. Fist pumpage was going on upon finding Spawn, Nick Fury, Sgt. Rock (whom I own the majority of his longest run) and Black Panther in the top 50.  
There are a few ranking issues I have here just from personal preference though it can be validated by facts if need be. I know you based it off of self titled comics and what not but I'd change a few things if we were talking about who the greatest out of these were. To start of to comic book hell with Steel, I hate his character, he's like what happens when affirmative action goes bad. And don't get me started on Archie. Supes shouldn't be anywhere near the top. He's a symbol and all that good stuff but he's become so cliche'd and he's just bleh. Hulk, Spectre, and Moon Knight would be higher up going off of everyone listed.  Kudos for including Shadowman but honestly what the heck is Aquaman's appeal? I mean seriously? He seems to be one of the most misplaced, at least people can argue for Supes as the face of comics. 
Posted by cbishop

Yeah, I read the rules, but I kind of think it's skewing the numbers to not include Amazing, Web of, and Spectacular, when "Spider-Man" is a much newer series than all of those.  I could see not including Marvel Tales, which was reprints anyway (although I think an argument could be made about how long said reprint sold, because it was Spidey), or not including something like "Spider-Man: Mutant Agenda," or "Spider-Man: India" (or whatever the comic was that showed Spidey as a guy from India). 
I mean, if the criteria is "self titled only," then does "The Batman" one-shot from Tangent count as a Batman self-title?  It was being related to the Bruce Wayne Batman that sold that comic, because fans wanted to see how this alternate version would compare.  Does that count? 
Still a cool list though. :)

Posted by batmanary

Phantom is actually quite popular internationally, in Australia, Scandinavia, and India, for example

Posted by Liberty
@Jetshade: When you use that one comparison I would agree.  After all I never said that this was a perfect solution but I do think it is more accurate than you are giveing it credit for.  It is the most researched list on the vine I have seen that is for sure.  I like your idea but I am not convinced it would make the list more accurate than the one I did.  That said I will look into it.  Who knows.  I am glad we can agree to disagree.  After all I hate when someone votes no and you are left wondering why.  Fear not however Hulk will be moving up quickly as I am sure Spider-man will as well.  I just don't think he would be in the top three using your method either.  That said he would be higher than he is now.
Edited by Jetshade
I can see that you are really married to your concept and criteria here and we're just going to have to agree to disagree.
I'll simply ask you this: Do you truly, honestly believe that a character like Warlord, who has only been around since 1975 and has seldom appeared since 1989, is a "greater hero of all time" than Spider-Man, a character who has arguably been the most popular and best-selling superhero since 1962 and whose titles are still going strong? Or that Warlord should be ranked 77 spots higher than the Hulk, another of Marvel's most popular characters since 1962 and whose titles are still going strong? Do you honestly believe that? Would anyone (other than a few die-hard Warlord fans or unreasonable Spider-Man/Hulk haters) honestly believe that? No? Then something about your criteria is flawed. This is not a conclusion based on my opinion, but simple common sense based on obvious real world evidence. 
As for you asking me how to create a more unbiased list, easy: Include just the longest-running self-titles with adjectives in them. Amazing Spider-Man, Incredible Hulk, Conan the Barbarian. Throw out the other self-titles that were running concurrently (Spectacular Spider-Man, etc). Give it a shot and I think you would make a far more accurate list. It certainly wouldn't have absurdities like Warlord being ranked higher than Spider-Man and Hulk.   
Posted by Liberty
@Jetshade:  No hard feelings at all.  I like to see other opinions.  I do however disagree with you.  I would challenge you to tell me a different way to have an unbiased list that determines who the greatest characters of all time. 
As to your other point of this list being unfair.  I couldn't agree disagree more. You should realize that comicvine was not my only source.  As I stated above.  I had bought three different price guides and used them as well.  Iron man's and Thor's books were collectively listed as self titled books.  Sometimes a book is produced as one thing but anything can appear on the cover.  It would be impossible to see every issue and judge them that way.  
A prime example of this would be Project Superpowers.  It is called Project Superpowers but, the cover of that book simply has a Z on it.  Another example would be Action Comics.  It is produced as Action Comics but the cover will say things like Superman in Action Comics and so on.  If you look on the inside cover of a comic it lists what the book is actually called.  In over words what you see on the cover is not always how the book was published.  If there is a biased conspiracy than it is bigger than me.  =]    
In summation I would point out again that it would be impossible to see and open every cover to see what it is called.  I have to rely on research tools in order to make this list and I think over all it is really accurate as a historical list.  I think we are just going to have to disagree with each other on it.  Everything you have stated about Spider-man not being higher on the list is more based on opinion.  I would challenge you again.  How would you to tell me a different way to have an unbiased list that determines who the greatest characters of all times.   Not just since 1962.
Posted by Jetshade
@Liberty: I understand what you're trying to say and do here, and if you rationalized your list as "let's see how comic book characters rank in terms of number of self-titled books published if we throw out all of their titles with adjectives in them," I have no problem with it. It becomes an interesting bit of trivia where, as you say, certain popular characters get screwed. 
But my problem is when you say this ranking method is meant to objectively determine who are "the greatest heroes of all time." I'm sorry, but when the flagship character of the top-selling comic book publisher comes in at #35 (Spider-Man) and another of their most popular characters comes in at #111 (Hulk), I think it says a lot more about your criteria being flawed than it does about the popularity of those characters. It becomes, like I said, more of a list about semantics (in this case, discriminating against adjectives in titles) rather than about who the greatest heroes of all time really are. 
It also seems to me that you are not even consistent in applying your criteria, since Thor's longest-running title went as "The Mighty" Thor for quite some time, while Iron Man's longest-running title was called "The Invincible" Iron Man for most of its run. It is true that here on Comic Vine the titles only come up as Thor and Iron Man, but Comic Vine is not 100% correct about everything. The real evidence is on the actual covers of the issues -- nearly all of them say "Mighty Thor" and "Invincible Iron Man." So why do those get counted while "Amazing," "Spectacular," "Web of" Spider-Man and "Incredible" Hulk get thrown out? Where do you draw the line? Once again, this becomes more of a debate about semantics than it does about true popularity and which character really has the most self-titled issues. 
So I still maintain that your rule about throwing out self-titles with adjectives in them, at least in terms of determining the "greatest heroes of all time" in a fair and objective manner, is fatally flawed. No hard feelings I hope. :) 

Posted by Liberty
@Jetshade:   Thank you fro your comment.  Just for the record in case their was confusion.  I did not make this list with any preconceived ideas of leaving anyone out or inflating anyone's numbers.  Spider-man is a much a surprise to me as were many of these characters like, The Spirit, John Constantine, Lone Ranger and all the Riverdale characters.  I wanted to make a list that was completely unbiased and this was the best I could come up with.  
Two other things I think you missed are.  I counted Peter Parker: Spider-Man.  It has his complete name in the title.  The other thing is this is a historical list.  Spider-man has only been around since 1962.  Batman, Superman the Spirit and the majority of the top ten have been around since the late 1930's and early 1940's.  There were Superhero comics for about 25 years before Spider-man was created.  Not only that but Superhero Comics existed for only about 70 years.  That is about 40% of the history of comics with no Spidy.  If I counted all of Spider-man's "Web of", "Spectacular" and "Amazing"  I would have done two other things.  I would have counted several runs that were going at the same time.  That would make the list less historically accrate as Spidey has only existed for less than 40m years.  I also would have to do the same thing for characters like Superman and Batman as well as characters like Captain Marvel (Billy) and Conan etc.  
This list is meant to rate the heroes who are the most popular over a historical period of time without using personal opinion.  I think it comes real close.  If I did it the way you suggest I think the list would be tilted to modern characters who have been subject to mass production and over saturation.  I really am glad you posted your thoughts.  I will also agree with you that some characters got screwed like Spidey.  The worst is Captain Marvel (Billy Batson)  He was screwed over litigation based on his name.  I hope this explained it better.  What do you think?
Thanks,  Liberty.
Posted by Jetshade

Liberty, you are a great contributor to CV and I commend you for creating another interesting, well-researched, well-written, and comprehensive list. You deserve serious kudos for your efforts. 
However, like IrishX, I have a MAJOR problem with your uncompromising reasoning about restricting the title to only the character's name in order to qualify -- relegating one of comicdom's biggest and most enduring superstars, Spider-Man, to only #35 on the list (behind such luminaries as Betty Cooper, nothing against her) when he clearly should be in the top 3. I have read your explanation several times now, and I still don't agree with it and think it is unreasonable. 
It should not matter if SPIDER-MAN is preceded by (in much smaller letters) "Amazing," "Web of," or "Peter Parker, the Spectacular." You disqualify it because you claim the character shouldn't need the adjective in order to sell the book. I say hogwash. The book sells because it is about Spider-Man and the name SPIDER-MAN sells the book, period. Not the adjective. This is a fatal flaw in your argument that makes your list more about semantics than it is about true popularity and content. Sorry to sound like I'm coming down on you so hard since I really respect your contributions, but I really feel the need to make this point.       

Posted by caesarsghost
good work deserves recognition.  
And yeah, I had no idea that Jugghead was so popular or that his line lasted so long. Huh. Learn something new all the time I guess.  
But yeah, apart from some justifiable anomalies (Jugghead beating out Spidey) the list makes logical sense and looks about how you would expect it to.  
and my personal favorite nabs the #1 spot. Man that feels good.
Posted by Liberty
@The Angry Comic Book Critic:   I couldn't agree with you more actually.  It was not by choice that he was ranked so high.  What I'd like to know is who buys the Jughead Comic.  I didn't even know it existed until I researched it.
@caesarsghost: Thank you very much that was a real nice complement.
Posted by caesarsghost

this is a terrific list.  
I especially appreciated the transhistorical approach, taking into account not only current titles but looking at the whole of comics history. That is what makes this Best List on the Vine, as my man Silkcuts pointed out earlier.
Posted by The Angry Comic Book Critic

This looks like it was as hard to make as pulling teeth really good effort man but there's just one small problem in this list.....Jug head beats spider-man I know it's your list and all but still just something about a guy who eats hamburgers all day and has a paper crown topping Ol' Webhead just doesn't sit right with me

Posted by NightFang
@Jotham said:
" Good job, man. Great list. "
Posted by Mr.Q
@Liberty said:
" @Mr.Q:   You don't know how true that is I literally stayed up after my kids went to bed.
can't be good for your health. or your mind. I know a thing or two about sleep deprivation. don't sleep much than I can't think. can't process what is going on around me. its what I imagine going insane must be like. wouldn't wish it on anyone. now sleep soldier. sleep.
Posted by Liberty
@Mr.Q:   You don't know how true that is I literally stayed up after my kids went to bed.
@haydenclaireheroes: Thank you.
Posted by haydenclaireheroes

You can see you put a lot of work on the list with a description on every character and even a huge description on the top. I hope you do more of these. 

Posted by Mr.Q
so... when do you sleep? between these thoughts. I appreciate all of the mind numbing work that went into this. I do. you are both an entertainer and an educator. can't say I recognize all of these entries, but I suppose that would be the point. thanks for the out standing work and info. now please. take a nap. it was well earned.
Posted by B'Town

I'm sure my eyes glazed over when I saw Stuperman in the #1 postion.  But once I got past that I have to say it is a pretty good list.

Posted by JCJQLB

This an interesting list!

Posted by Amegashita

  Where is Billy?  I'm going to have to come back after I compile all my information, I will not accept Freddy being on a list and not being lower than Billy. 
  Great list though... but having Billy Batson on there would make it Awesome.

Posted by Primmaster64


Posted by Liberty
@Jotham:   Thank you very much.
@aztek the lost: Only you would notice my mistake after I worked so hard =].  I added him and corrected the list.  thank you.  
As for the name thing.  I explained it in the description of the list and in an earlier post.  You may not have noticed because I re-wrote the whole thing after your first comment.  
The thing is  titles like Conan the Barbarian,  are the same as Superman:  The Man of Steel, Firestorm the Nuclear man and  Batman the Dark Knight. The title has to be the character's name and only their name. The word "The" is alright as are titles like Captain, Mr, Dr. and King are fine as well.  This brings me to another mistake I made I will add the King Conan and Conan the King.  55 more issues.  I worked my butt off on this and you are making me feel like I didn't do enough.  I'm just joking by the way I am really glad for your input I just hope you don't find any more mistakes at the same time =].   

Lastly, as for Conan the Cimmerian.  I don't count it for the same reason I didn't count Barbarian.  Cimmerian is what he is not his name.  The title has to be just his name.  I can't think of a real comparison but to give you an idea I wouldn't count Superman the Kryptonian, Red Skull the German or Aquaman the Atlantian.    Does this help?  Let me know your thoughts.
Posted by Jotham

Good job, man. Great list.

Posted by aztek_the_lost

also, maybe I just missed him on your list but Shade the Changing Man had 78 through 8 issues from DC and 70 from Vertigo

Posted by aztek_the_lost

why don't comics like Conan the Barbarian, Conan the King and Conan the Cimmerian count? I mean they are still his name aren't they, he has been known as those things

Posted by Silkcuts

BEST LIST ON THE VINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Love this list!
John Constantine sits at #15 :D 
On more year he is tied with Blackhawk and I think he deserves the tie breaker because of the OGN's are 10 issues worth of stories, just the two of them.
Posted by Liberty
@Loki9876:   8 days at about 4 hours a day.  How sad is that?  Thanks for voting.  
Posted by Loki9876

god list you had a lot of work with that list

Posted by IrishX
It's a good list. I certainly can appreciate trying to help people learn about characters they may not know about.
Posted by Liberty
@IrishX:   I understand and agree with you in part.  Amazing Spider-man is how he got his start.  It is like Action Comics with Superman.  Also, look at Sgt Rock.  his series was called Our Army at War and yet it was a Sgt. Rock comic. The thing is 99% of the time the adjective gets droped and that didn't happen very fast for Spider-man and Hulk.  
Don't forget the other reasons though because they are just as important and that is.  I wanted to show a list of durability and marketability in a historical context.  Take characters like like Blackhawk.  Historically he was every bit as popular as a character like Hulk and maybe even Spider-man.  He had his own movie series and theme song.  As well as radio shows and so on.  He was huge for decades but he is largely forgotten now.  He also had comics that I didn't count.  
What happens with self titled books is they are almost always published one at a time.  For example  you are not likely to have a book like Superman and another book with the same name or a book called Clark Kent.  So in other-words instead of counts four series that are being produed for the 1990's I am only counting one series for the 1990's.  You can also look at the series and divide by 12 and see what their impact was.  Anyone with 120 books or more has been huge for AT LEAST a decade.  This give you a good idea of their impact.  It is not perfect but I am a big historian and counting the self titled books shows books in their historical perspective a little better.  
btw You never said if you liked the list or not.
Posted by IrishX
It's a bummer anytime a list get's a no recommendation.. lol. I know I value the one list I've made pretty highly. 
I understand that you want to make something different than just an appearance list. I guess I just looked at it more in the way of single character series.  Basically no team, one-shot, or any guest appearances in other characters books. Of course it's your list and you can do it anyway you wish.
Gotta disagree on the point about eventually not needing something before the name. Amazing has been with Spidey so long and is such a part of him that I just don't see it going anywhere. He may be the exception to this though.
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