#1 Edited by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

Look, I do not like Civil War. Not so much because of the actual story, but because of a truckload of potential the story had, but didn't live up to. I could point fingers at Millar, who by the way are FAR away from being one of my favorite writer, but it is just as much Marvels fault for wanting to move on with the next new big crossover. But that aren't really my problem with Civil War.

I disagree in the way Cap has been written, but I am ready to discus it. I do not like the idea of Tony making a Thor-cyborg/clone, but that is my opinion. again, THAT is not my real problem.

My problem is the New Warriors.

How come no one talks about this? Am I really the only one who notice this HUGH mistake that Millar have made by blowing up the Warriors? Or am I the only one who cares? Can anyone tell me what is wrong with this page?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

First of all, the New Warriors are NOT IDIOTS! They have been in the game for a looong time. The only one of them who are a newbie is Microbe, Night Thrashers foster son. But the other three?

Night Thrasher is kind off a black Batman, who have trained himself the most of his life to fight crime, and spent a ocean of money on his training and tutors. Namorita is the cosine of Namor the FLIPPING Submariner, and a trained Atlantian warrior. And Speedball may not have any training, but he is a funding member of the Warriors, and have been part of the team even longer than Nita and Thrasher.

And how come they follow orders from Speedball? Lets just say, for the sake of the argument, that Speedball is a idiot, why would they follow orders from him? Bout Nita and Thrash have been leaders, so if anyone should run the team, it should be one of them.

And the Warriors have been in situations like this before, and they know better than to just storm a bunch of bad-guys without a proper plan, close to a school with kids. Hell, they have been part of war. They know a thing or two about responsibility.

And finally, THERE ARE NO REALITY SHOW AT THE MOMENT!!! It was cancelled, in New Warriors vol. 3 issue 6. Did Millar do any research at all?

If Civil War needed some irresponsible heroes to screw up, why not make some new? It would make sense with a bunch of random stupid kids, who founded a group on the net, and then made a fatal mistake.

Am I the only one who sees this?

#2 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

And was it really THAT necessary to fridge Speedball?

#3 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

And was it really THAT necessary to fridge Speedball?

He wasn't fridged? He was the only survivor.

#4 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

@innervenom123: Yeah, and then sent to jail, hes mother stops talking to him, becomes Americas most hated man, get beaten up i jail, got shot and then started to were this:

If that isn't a fridge, I dont know what is.

#5 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: I'm pretty sure you don't know what fridge means.

#6 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

@innervenom123: I guess you are right. Apparently, it only counts if it is a woman. But you have to admit that SB get the same treatment.

Women in Refrigerators (WiR) refers to comic book women who have been depowered, raped, murdered and/or had their lives ruined specifically in order to fuel the stories.

But what do you think of my critic of the opening of Civil War? Do I have a point?

#7 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: Typically fridging refers only to dead characters. That definition you posted is broad as hell compared to the one regularly used.

And I wouldn't know. I never read New Warriors.

#8 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4596 posts) - - Show Bio

You make a good point but artist and writers make simple mistakes like this all the time. As I always say it is quite difficult to remember every single detail of every single character... plus retcons come to play... I always see one fan point out one random error that I personally never noticed.

I mean it's not like the writer or artist has unlimited time to do all the research possible to finally start his or her story.

That is just my interpretation of the situation.

( + )

#9 Posted by cameron83 (6499 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: But I still LOVED Civil War,although I didn't catch that inconsistency.

I guess he REALLY f*cked up those guys just for the sake of the story...should've used another team or made up another team. Still...I loved Civil War. But I never caught that...

You make a good point but artist and writers make simple mistakes like this all the time. As I always say it is quite difficult to remember every single detail of every single character... plus retcons come to play... I always see one fan point out one random error that I personally never noticed.

I mean it's not like the writer or artist has unlimited time to do all the research possible to finally start his or her story.

That is just my interpretation of the situation.

( + )

this

#10 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: @yung_ancient_one: Well, I guess you are right Yung Ancient One, but still, if you are going to change a character or teams life like that, a little prereading aren't that much to ask for. My favorite run on the Avengers were the one written by Busiek who clearly made his homework before making the comic. But again, I am sure Millar were busy with the book as a whole... what does (+) mean?

Look, I'm not saying that the way that Millar treated the Warriors make it a bad book, it just... well... I just really like this guys. And I just think that its sad that they weren't important enough for Millar or the readers.

They weren't earth mightiest heroes, but just a bunch of guys who wanted to help if they could. That was what the reality show were about. Night Thrasher, who used to be richer than god, couldn't afford to keep the team running and offered it to a TV-channel as a way to get funds.

But nobody cares, so... that's it.

#11 Posted by UltimateJonathan (107 posts) - - Show Bio

Millar did not do his research on the new warriors. Also remember kids, killing teenage superheroes as a means to kick off a storyline is kewl!!!

#12 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultimatejonathan: And sadly, that is NOT even on the top ten over messed up things comic-book writers do wean they write:)

#13 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4596 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: I understand, really I do. Believe me, if I was in your shoes it would be disappointing for me as well. It is just the sad reality that artist and writers don't always do their research for whatever reason they may have.

SIDEBAR:

To not make the long story... so long... it's my logo... I use it a lot. I have even developed a meaning for it, which is to be Positive or the acronym P.L.U.S. which I'm always adding more meanings. Why? There was a certain time when I needed a logo to let everyone know it was me who was texting them.

It worked... very well.

( + )

#14 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

@yung_ancient_one: Thank you for understanding. Have you tried something similar?

Maybe I should get a logo too:)

#15 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4596 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: Forgive me, I don't think I fully grasp your question. ( + )

#16 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

@yung_ancient_one: Having a person or a team you liked brutally fridged as fuel to a story. W2

#17 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7561 posts) - - Show Bio

It seemed like an interesting Idea but it just got a bit to complicated and convoluted.

#18 Edited by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah, the inciting incident was pretty much throwing the New Warriors under the bus and then everyone conveniently blaming them instead of Nitro. It was a weak incentive and could've been handled better.

Killing off the NW didn't mean much to most fans unfamiliar with them anyway, so why do it? If there's a clear villain to blame in Nitro, doesn't that kill the stakes right there? Why involve the villain? They should've had a clearer case of negligence by a big-name hero set things off.

#19 Edited by PowerHerc (80707 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2:

Your criticisms of the Civil War story have a lot of merit.

The New Warriors were terribly written out of character. The Thor-clone was, imo, an unnecessary attempt to do what DC did when they made a Superman-clone (the Cyborg-Superman) and should not have been a product of anyone calling himself/herself a hero.

What I agree about with you the most is how quickly Marvel shoved aside the events of Civil War, especially what should've been massive, sweeping and long-lasting repercussions and ramifications. Marvel did just ignore most of the fall-out, practically returning everthing to the status quo, and quickly moved on to the next crossover event. Thus was "Civil War" made largely irrelevant. It's a shame.

#20 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4596 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2: I can't say that I have to be honest. I am trying to think of something or some time where I felt so disappointed in a direction the creative team was taking a franchise or having a favorite team "fridged" but I can't.

I'm sure I have at some point but I currently cannot recall. I usually try to keep an open mind about everything these days, and there are just SO MANY books/series/stories I want to read that I can't really dwell on one thing.

I didn't like the Venom "look" Mac was rocking, I don't like what they did to Toxin, I wish Anti-Venom was still here instead, I dislike finding out who RULK is,...

WAIT I just remembered. I dislike that the Secret Warriors series ended and they replaced it (IMHO) with the Secret Avengers. I was a fairly big fan of the idea of Super Hero Spies that were all Brand New Characters and now.... we have established characters playing spies.

Still, again, I just let it go. There are so many books I want to read that I'm glad that some of my favorite series ended. Sometimes I wish Agent Venom or Scarlet Spider would end so I could read something else. haha... I'll stop now XP

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#22 Edited by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

I forgot to mention that I have another problem with Civil War: How come Reed Richards supported the act?

#23 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

And why the heck would Cap work with the Punisher? DUDE!

#24 Edited by MaccyD (3401 posts) - - Show Bio

@waezi2 said:

I forgot to mention that I have another problem with Civil War: How come Reed Richards supported the act?

Was actually going to mention that:

First off, they came up with a shoddy excuse about how Reed's uncle tried to go against the government and died, which influenced Reed. They then realized that this was badly out of character for Reed and made up that he apparently came up with a maths formula that proved the world would go into chaos/end/crazy etc if the registration act wasn't passed or something like that.

#25 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd: Apparently, Reed Richards sucks at math. It happened anyway.

#26 Posted by waezi2 (6609 posts) - - Show Bio

Did anyone read the second New Warriors series? I haven't. Is it not-horrible?