#1 Posted by The Lobster (1507 posts) - - Show Bio

 

A big thing in X-men comics was when Beast left Utopia after finding out about X-force, now obviously there were other things that factored into his departure from Utopia. For one Scott left him to be tortured by Dark Beast and Norman Osborn in order to keep Utopia a secret. So Beast and Cyclops have had their differences. X-force was simply the last straw. Beast left Utopia and went off to do his own thing. 
 
Then Wolverine and Cyclops went their separate ways in Schism, Wolverine called Beast up and told him that he left Scott and is starting his own X-men. Beast joined up and supported him and helped him created the Jean Grey School for Higher Learning. The big problem is that after Scott disbanded X-force, Wolverine created a new X-force consisting of Psylocke, Fantomex, Deadpool, and Archangel. They killed a child, an old man, and a bunch of other people. Then Archangel went crazy and tried to destroy the entire world. 
 
Wolverine recently just told Beast and Kitty Pryde that he's leader of X-Force and that X-force will continue to be active. They will "make sure none of the bad guys show up on their school's doorstep" he also uses the term, "On-call campus police." While Beast didn't seem to be happy with it, he still remains to be a part of Wolverine's side and continues to teach at the school. 
 
So here's the big question.....Is Beast a Hypocrite? 
 
Is it fair of him to criticize and leave Scott for creating X-force, but stay with Wolverine who created his own team of killers? 

 
Well one of the main differences between how Cyclops dealt with X-force and how Wolverine dealt with X-force was Scott tried to keep it as secret as possible. He only let people know about it if they found out about it for themselves. Wolverine however is being a lot more upfront with it. Wolverine has practically just stated that there is going to be "No secrets" between him and Beast. Although if X-force is going to be kept secret from the students still remains to be seen. Although judging by the preview for Wolverine and the X-men #4 we might find out about that or not. 
 
I know that if I was dating someone for a long time I'd rather have my partner come up to me and say "Yes I cheat on you, I'm sorry", then find out they were cheating on me on my own. This situation is kinda like that. Although there is one thing wrong with that analogy, when someone cheats on someone and admits to it you expect they're telling you because they learned from their mistakes and want to make amends. Wolverine isn't telling Beast he's sorry and that he's ending X-force, he's telling him "I'm not keeping any secrets from you, but I'm still going to go out and kill people." So it's kinda like being in a "Yes I cheated on you, and I'm still going to do it" relationship, in which case any person would say "Then I'm done." Beast isn't doing that.....so does that still make him a hypocrite? 
 
What do you guys think, is Beast a Hypocrite or do you think he's justified for criticizing Scott and not Wolverine.
#2 Posted by Galathanos (44 posts) - - Show Bio

Everyone is a hypocrite about something but as much as I'm starting to dislike the sanctimonious douche currently known as Beast I don't think he's in the wrong about this. Sure he's tolerating Wolverine doing something he didn't tolerate Scott doing but he's not required to hold everyone to the same universal standard in everything what you or I will take from someone without repercussions depends on our expectations and Beast expectations of Wolverine are rightfully lower than those he holds for Scott.

#3 Edited by BlackArmor (6137 posts) - - Show Bio

Good blog It is a interesting question but I think Hanks only a hypocrite if he kills someone himself

#4 Posted by War Killer (20129 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always liked Wolverine more than Cyclops, so it really doesn't bother me if Beast is a hypocrite or not.

I haven't read the issue though, but can anyone tell me what happened between Kitty and AoA Nightcrawler...doesn't look pretty from that one panel... O_O

#5 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32999 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine is one of the biggest pricks I have seen in comics so I'm biased when it comes to this topic 

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#6 Posted by MrMiracle77 (1659 posts) - - Show Bio

I keep seeing the word hypocrite thrown around as though it were some sort of ongoing practice or philosophy.  If an individual lies once, does that make them perpetually a liar?  While their words may then be more suspect afterwards, it certainly doesn't mean they are incapable of telling the truth.  Beast's individual act may be hypocritical, but that doesn't mean he is going to spend the rest of his comic-book days constantly saying one thing and then doing another.
 
Or maybe we should just whip out the 'H' shaped branding iron and start pressing foreheads?

#7 Posted by Dernman (14957 posts) - - Show Bio

Ya he is a hypocrite. He basically treats Cyclopse as the devil now but give Wolverine a free pass.

#8 Posted by yumyumbubblegum (618 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Lobster said:

For one Scott left him to be tortured by Dark Beast and Norman Osborn in order to keep Utopia a secret.

I honestly don't remember this panning out the way you described it. From what I understand, Scott had Emma infiltrate the Cabal under the rouse that she had her own agenda for mutant kind, separate from Cyclops. In doing so she was able to locate the whereabouts of Hank and rescue him from the clutches of Dark Beast. So I wouldn't say that Scott left Hank to be tortured by Dark Beast per se (he wasn't directly involved with the rescue, but I think he did orchestrate it).

I think what drove Hank over the edge was the fact that the X-men were no longer just a school for young mutants, but rather, a second incarnation of Genosha. At heart, Hank has always been a teacher.

#9 Posted by The Lobster (1507 posts) - - Show Bio
@War Killer said:

I've always liked Wolverine more than Cyclops, so it really doesn't bother me if Beast is a hypocrite or not.

I haven't read the issue though, but can anyone tell me what happened between Kitty and AoA Nightcrawler...doesn't look pretty from that one panel... O_O

Basically the AoA Nightcrawler stays in the 616 so he hunt down those that killed his alleys. Kitty see him and hugs him thinking he's the 616 Kurt and he yells at her telling her he's not the Kurt she knows. I get the feeling that AoA Nightcrawler is a little uncomfortable in the 616, but who wouldn't be if they were in his situation.
#10 Posted by War Killer (20129 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Lobster said:

@War Killer said:

I've always liked Wolverine more than Cyclops, so it really doesn't bother me if Beast is a hypocrite or not.

I haven't read the issue though, but can anyone tell me what happened between Kitty and AoA Nightcrawler...doesn't look pretty from that one panel... O_O

Basically the AoA Nightcrawler stays in the 616 so he hunt down those that killed his alleys. Kitty see him and hugs him thinking he's the 616 Kurt and he yells at her telling her he's not the Kurt she knows. I get the feeling that AoA Nightcrawler is a little uncomfortable in the 616, but who wouldn't be if they were in his situation.

Ah okay, that makes more sense. Explains why he's so hostile in that image towards her.

#11 Posted by MatKrenz (1233 posts) - - Show Bio

One of the big differences between the two X-Force teams is that X-23 was on the team and she was just a teen wich probably pissed Beast right off and this version of the team are all adults who don't have a problem with killing and putting that on their minds so Beast might not be offended.

#12 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: I'm not sure what to label Hank, however, I don't think that it's fair to hold Scott and Logan at different standards. I recognize that he thought highly of Scott, however, to just outright blast Scott over Nightcrawlers death, X-Force taking too long to rescue, not wanting to own up to letting his scientific research fall into the wrong hands, aiding Agent Brand in firing cannon with the power of a sun into a ghostbox where others resided, and whatever mess he's got going on with Secret Avengers; I just don't think too highly of ol' Hank as of late. I really hope that he has his own bull thrown back in his face.

#13 Posted by Dernman (14957 posts) - - Show Bio

@One_Eye: So do I he acted so smug and self righteous that time he showed up to pick up people to bring to the school. He even said he didn't need to show up he was ony there to throw it in his face. I found it very childish.

#14 Posted by One_Eye (783 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dernman: Yeah, I just couldn't care less about the character and really want to see him called out on his b/s.

#15 Posted by luckydomino1 (491 posts) - - Show Bio

the differance between the two is scott sent them out to kill people the new xforce is only their to protect the school from threats lets say the us goverment sends people to invade and destroy the school then the xforce steps in and takes them out

#16 Posted by tchalla3000 (56 posts) - - Show Bio

He is a hypocrite. Beast was mad at Scott not only for not saving him fast enough from Dark Beast, but because Scott authorized killing. That's why he left the team. Now Wolverine tells him the X-force is still around and he stays. Plus, Beast did kill a lot of people in the secret avengers.

#17 Posted by Outside_85 (8676 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say no, partially because of the background, since the X-Force was considered an abomination by nearly everyone on Utopia as well (was one of the reasons X-23 left) because it and its agenda was kept secret despite all the people involved. Hank probably appreciates that Logan at least informs him that the X-Force remains active rather than notify him after its closed down (which is kinda like telling people of an approaching car after its hit you.)

#18 Posted by krspaceT (1473 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's a point, maybe the marvel comics are just so overloaded with 50+ years of continuity (I skip over pre Stan Lee time because Marvel barely touches that era outside Cap and Namor's branch of their world), that in order to have interesting stories they have to mess up characters.

Perhaps they should think like DC and reset. You fans complain so much

#19 Posted by SC (12961 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't consider him a hypocrite. To only look at the similarities of a situation and not the differences would be an error in reasoning. So becomes a question if the differences between scenarios seem valid enough as far as Beast actions and attitudes to hence justify them. Now its important to remember that other characters have their own reasoning and justification behind things and inconsistencies in actions and attitudes. I mean Cyclops used to be extremely opposed to killing enemies (like never ever ever never) because at the time he would have seen that as justifying all the anti-mutant sentiment and that Magneto's approach was making things worse, but it really was just a numbers game. Mutant population wasn't low enough and maybe also the character grew up and or gained new views. Wolverine as well, he almost killed Rachel for killing Selene and Selene went on to kill and kill and then Wolverine was the first and most eager to dig his claws into Wanda and Hope as well as being pretty intolerant to those who didn't. Then again Wolverine is old. Really old people, like 120 years old people tend to have that chip on their shoulder about doing what they say but not what they do.  
 
So anyway Beast. One just has to look at the differences between the two incarnations of X-Force and even Secret Avengers to determine if Beast is a hypocrite. The secrecy of one and to who, as well as the inclusion of X-23, as well as things like authority and accountability all adds up. Has Wolverine, Cap A used any non X-Force/Secret Avengers members to accomplish X-Force mission goals? Did any of them die? Plus we can't ignore that this is comics. Fiction. Writers try to force tension sometimes. I could have imagined Cyclops actually informing the senior X-Men of X-Forces existence when he formed it, but then that wouldn't have become a plot point later. Anyway, I think too highly of Beast or Cyclops or Storm to consider them hypocrites as far as X-Force and X-Men killing goes. Wolverine I like thinking of a hypocrite because I view it as an endearing part of the character.               

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#20 Posted by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

Beast can go away. His anti-Cyclops vendetta has gone on for far too long.

#21 Posted by MadRooster81 (182 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you answered this at the beginning of the blog. When Beast left Scott, X-Force was the last strew of an already scorned relationship. With Wolverine, there isn't any bad blood yet and as long as he isn't apart of and it's not causing a problem to the student at the school, I'm thinking he is letting this one go.

#22 Edited by John Valentine (16307 posts) - - Show Bio

@MadRooster81 said:

I think you answered this at the beginning of the blog. When Beast left Scott, X-Force was the last strew of an already scorned relationship. With Wolverine, there isn't any bad blood yet and as long as he isn't apart of and it's not causing a problem to the student at the school, I'm thinking he is letting this one go.

Beast helped design devices that were able to send X-Force to the future.

X-Force saved Beast from H.A.M.M.E.R. incarceration and torture.

X-Force stopped the spread of a new Legacy virus, saved two young mutants (Hellion and Surge) and stopped Selene.

Moreover, they were lead by Wolverine. No one was forced to be on the team by Scott or Wolverine.

Scott disbanded the team after Second `Coming when the threats he had assembled X-Force to eliminate had been dealt with.

Wolverine then went behind everyone's backs and started a new team, yet Beast doesn't get pissed off when he finds out? What about when he finds out that Wolverine's new team shot a kid in the head? It's a reflection of Beast's unfounded dislike of Scott and nothing more.

Beast's a hypocrite, plain and simple.

#23 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, and it has damned him for me some, but he is still one of my favorite X-Men and hopefully over time he see's he has double standards.

#24 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by Bo88gdan (4397 posts) - - Show Bio

Beast is not a Hypocrite

#26 Edited by Guardian3712 (21 posts) - - Show Bio

Remember when ALL the X-Men had disagreements but still acted as a team and cared about each other? Seems like a long time ago. (Maybe Uncanny X-Men issues #1-20? haha, nah, just kidding)

#27 Edited by w0nd (3265 posts) - - Show Bio

he's a complete hypocrite...a sanctimonious one at that.

#28 Posted by Aiden Cross (15562 posts) - - Show Bio

He's still among my favourite x-men though i don't agree with all his choices.

#29 Posted by joshmightbe (24876 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering how many times the xmen have screwed Beast over they're just lucky he hasn't tirned villain on them. He discovered the cure for the legacy virus and no one thanked him, he was an original Xman amd was never even considered for a leadership role, he's given more for the sake of mutants than most other xmen combined and still they s**t on him so no he isnt a hypocrite the xmen are just ungrateful pricks who did everything in their power to turn him against them and then had the nerve to be pissed when he finally desided hed had enough of their crap

#30 Posted by lykopis (10752 posts) - - Show Bio

All the X-Men are hypocrites. All the Avengers are hypocrites. There. That about covers it.

#31 Edited by JackRock (63 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering how many times the xmen have screwed Beast over they're just lucky he hasn't tirned villain on them. He discovered the cure for the legacy virus and no one thanked him, he was an original Xman amd was never even considered for a leadership role, he's given more for the sake of mutants than most other xmen combined and still they s**t on him so no he isnt a hypocrite the xmen are just ungrateful pricks who did everything in their power to turn him against them and then had the nerve to be pissed when he finally desided hed had enough of their crap

Love this
and all are hypocrites

#32 Edited by frogdog (3246 posts) - - Show Bio

Beast ain't a hypocrite, he's just wolverine cheerleader.

#33 Posted by bigtewell (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@matkrenz: thats a good point plus wolverines team are all people who chose to kill and will do it no matter what so at least they are doing it to help the school. but wolverine beast cap and havok are all getting on my nerves lately treating cyclops as the devil and being pupets for shield

#34 Edited by OmegaHans (206 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigtewell: Cyclops is nothing but a mutant jihadist. To hell with him.

#35 Posted by Lion_Heart22 (446 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops and Beast are my two favorite X-Men. I recognize the characters I love would never do the things they are doing in current continuity, but I tend to see it Cyke's way. I think it's apparent that Marvel tried really hard to make Cyclops into a bad guy, the whole Schism and AVX was very forced. Suddenly, Wolverine who has killed thousands of innocents alongside thousands of bad guys and has groomed several young women into becoming ruthless killers, now has a problem with teens training to fight, which is, you know the original concept of X-Men.

And suddenly, though everyone forgives Jean for what she did while possessed, it's OK to turn Cyclops into an evil overlord, despite the fact that everything turned out the way he said it would, despite the fact that he did more to help the world before becoming Dark Phoenix than any of the Avengers.

So yeah, Beast demonizing Cyke for something, while he condones Wolverine for that very same thing, is hypocrisy, and it just shows how Marvels wants everyone to know Wolverine is in the right, killer or saint, whatever he chooses is the right thing to do.

#36 Posted by Dayvid3 (807 posts) - - Show Bio

hypocrite

#37 Posted by Farkam (4875 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

All the X-Men are hypocrites. All the Avengers are hypocrites. There. That about covers it.

This.