Raven vs Jean Grey

A Mystic and A Mutant?

This is a tough one... I would have to go with Raven on this one. I know her level of mysticism is at par capable of  total world destruction

Why are they fighting? They should be having a pillow fight... or maybe just kissing? :]

I think im gonna have to go with Raven.  I mean, she could just like send jean to another dimension couldn't she?

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I think im gonna have to go with Raven.  I mean, she could just like send jean to another dimension couldn't she?

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"divingfalcon713 said:

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I think im gonna have to go with Raven.  I mean, she could just like send jean to another dimension couldn't she?

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Not before Jean turned her brain into a milkshake.This is the Phoenix were talking about..a reality manipulator which translates into "I can do what ever the f#ck I want".
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"Vance Astro said:

"divingfalcon713 said:

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I think im gonna have to go with Raven.  I mean, she could just like send jean to another dimension couldn't she?

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Not before Jean turned her brain into a milkshake.This is the Phoenix were talking about..a reality manipulator which translates into "I can do what ever the f#ck I want".
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In my original post I said that jean grey dosenot have the pheonix."

"Why are they fighting? They should be having a pillow fight... or maybe just kissing? :]"

"erik said:

"Why are they fighting? They should be having a pillow fight... or maybe just kissing? :]"

You need to stop subscribing to lesbian magazines. 
"

I'm taking Jean Grey's side on this. She's still a pretty powerful telepath that could screw up Raven's mind pretty danged good. I'm sure Raven would give her hell though, it would be close.

There is absolutely no contest between the two, Phoenix would crush Raven, the only similarity it seems to me is that they both take the shape of birds. CURBSTOMP

Which version of Raven?We talking pre Trigon escape,  just the evil of Trigon's influence, golden body, white cloak, Blood revived, what? Girls gone through enough deaths and transformations...

"Which version of Raven?We talking pre Trigon escape,  just the evil of Trigon's influence, golden body, white cloak, Blood revived, what? Girl's gone through enough deaths and transformations...
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"erik said:

"Why are they fighting? They should be having a pillow fight... or maybe just kissing? :]"

You need to stop subscribing to lesbian magazines. 
"

Anyone else.

Well looking at in a serious manner, I really think this would go to Jean. First of all, she has way more experience, secondly I understand that Raven has to be careful of her emotions. This is something that Jean can exploit. In addition, Jean's powers work at the speed of HER thought, which i can imagine is much faster than a normal humans.

raven absolutly

"raven absolutly"

Soul self, baby.

80s Raven packed some major power.

There's nothing Jean can throw at it that can knock it down and Jean really really doesn't want to get in Raven's head.

"Soul self, baby.

80s Raven packed some major power.

There's nothing Jean can throw at it that can knock it down and Jean really really doesn't want to get in Raven's head.
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She's immune insomuch that he dad is ridiculously evil and she's generally screwed up in the head.  Her soul self is a manifestation of the part of her that is her father.  When Kid Flash touched it for too long, it made him hate Raven and almost killed him to boot.

Jean is not a particularly strong telepath and I imagine entering Raven's head will have more or less the same effect on Jean as if she was held in Raven's soul self for too long.  Bad idea.

Jean isn't a strong telepath? I'm sorry you are seriously mistaken. Her abilities rival Xavier. It has been said that her abilities may even surpass his. Where did you get your info that she isn't a powerful telepath? She can turn Emma's brain into jelly and Emma is a powerful telepath. That ability of Raven's doesn't do much good if her brain is altered to think she is a football qb for the Raiders.

Her abilities rival Xavier?  No, they really don't.
Xavier is a much more powerful telepath than Jean.  Emma is about the same.

And even Xavier is on the low end of telepaths.  I mean, when you compare him to Moondragon or Manchester Black or Doctor Psycho or even Exodus, he's a chump.  And there are tons of telepaths and magicians that can completely block out Xavier without even trying and Jean is weaker than him. 

And that doesn't even take into account that Jean has been mind controled herself several times in the past and goes crazy on a dime.  She flat out doesn't have the mental fortitude to take a peak inside Raven's head and try to mess with it.

Xavier is still called the most powerful telepath. I don't think you even read X-men comics. Where are you getting your reference material, wikipedia? Jean doesn't have the mental fortitude? Again an ill informed statement. Jean is one of the few people in her universe that has the will and "mental fortitude" to handle the phoenix force. Emma tried and was nearly consumed by it. And you say Jean was controlled several times, tell me all of them. I very much doubt that there are as many as you make out to be unless you are speaking of the 60's. Lets just take into account Jean's telekinesis then. Jean could slice and dice Raven into so many pizzas. Jean is one of the most powerful mutants in her universe. Raven is just really skilled in the use of magic. She isn't even that universes most powerful magic weilder. I think you should research the X-men before you just throw a Raven win out there. I mean you really lost as soon as you tried to claim Emma as on Jean's level. Emma is a level 9 telepath, Xavier is most certainly not, neither is Jean.

"Xavier is still called the most powerful telepath."

Except as said in the opening post, Jean does not have the Phoenix.

TK and TP only, it would seem.

I agree that if she had her Phoenix powers, she'd make short work of Raven.

"Except as said in the opening post, Jean does not have the Phoenix.

TK and TP only, it would seem.

I agree that if she had her Phoenix powers, she'd make short work of Raven.
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Lol. Have you read X-men Legacy? Xavier easily held his own against Exodus after having his own brain shot. His mind was shattered. Whenever they announce Xavier, they call him the the most powerful telepath. If you read the comics, you would know that. I have just as many years under my belt and I at least read the recent ones. Xavier has never been concidered a low telepath. NEVER. He would easily dust Emma without much thought. The simple fact that you would state that tells me you don't read X-men. I don't read Titans so, admittedly I don't know the full scope of Raven's powers. This very site states that one of her powers is magic. Now I do not know if she currently uses magic, but I am aware of when she did she wasn't the best. I do however, know X-men and you clearly don't.

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Lol. Have you read X-men Legacy? Xavier easily held his own against Exodus after having his own brain shot. His mind was shattered. Whenever they announce Xavier, they call him the the most powerful telepath. If you read the comics, you would know that. I have just as many years under my belt and I at least read the recent ones. Xavier has never been concidered a low telepath. NEVER. He would easily dust Emma without much thought. The simple fact that you would state that tells me you don't read X-men. I don't read Titans so, admittedly I don't know the full scope of Raven's powers. This very site states that one of her powers is magic. Now I do not know if she currently uses magic, but I am aware of when she did she wasn't the best. I do however, know X-men and you clearly don't.

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Lol where did you get me calling you a moron? I think it is silly that you gathered that from any one of my posts. If someone even distracts Moondragon, her powers fail. That being said, it is not impossible for Xavier to crush her. Lol Manchester is a DC character. If you want to compare the abilities of Xavier against Manchester, start a thread for it. I am aware of Doctor Psycho and I don't think that Xavier is gonna loose that one either. Jean would still liquify Raven's brain before she could use any of her current abilities. Jean has the power of thought.

@ zoom & erik

xavier is considered to be the most powerful telepath in marvel earth only. anywhere beyond earth he is considered not as powerful a telepath. so if it comes to the entire marvel comics xavier is like the 10th through 20th most powerful.

ego is a more powerful telepath than xavier. he's so powerful he can talk to the planets! xavier can not talk to planets.

"if someone even distracts Moondragon, her powers fail. That being said, it is not impossible for Xavier to crush her. Lol Manchester is a DC character. If you want to compare the abilities of Xavier against Manchester, start a thread for it. I am aware of Doctor Psycho and I don't think that Xavier is gonna loose that one either. Jean would still liquify Raven's brain before she could use any of her current abilities. Jean has the power of thought."

No Xavier does not have trouble controlling just one person. On two occasions that come to mind right away, he stopped riots without breaking a sweat.

Lol. Wow I allowed myself get distracted from the actual arguement. Jean destroys Raven. Lets use examples of when Raven smoked scary teles in her universe, by herself and we can build from there.

About as often as Jean has smoked people who are practically possessed by demons with soul selfs....not very often.

Ok Zoom. Tell me how Raven would use her abilities on Jean without getting completely shut down. What is to stop Jean from dropping a something really heavy on Raven or running a tele-blade right through Raven's midsection?

Soul self.

I wish I had the scans but one of it's main things is blocking bullets, flying rubble, etc.

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How do people always seem to make curbstomps 2 pages.

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"Vance Astro said:

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How do people always seem to make curbstomps 2 pages.

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I have no idea.

Magic
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This battle is retarded raven wins

"brainiac 1.0 said:

"Vance Astro said:

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How do people always seem to make curbstomps 2 pages.

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I have no idea.

Magic
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Ok. Brainiac 1.0. If you tell me I am wrong, I will admit defeat because I respect your opinion. I am putting my fate in your hands."

"erik said:

"Xavier is still called the most powerful telepath."

By who?  Xavier doesn't have half the ability of Manchester Black or Doctor Psycho.  He has trouble controling more than one mind at once.  Exodus can block Xavier's attacks while beating the hell out of the Avengers.  Moondragon and Enchantress have flat out made it where he couldn't read their thoughts or the thoughts of anyone on their respective teams.

Xavier is in the bottom 25% of comic book telepaths easily.  Jean is even lower.

And for your information, I've read X-Men comics for 16 years.

And for your information, Raven doesn't use magic at all and since you didn't know that, you obviously lack the capacity to judge this fight with any degree of accuracy.
Edit: Let me rephrase that last bit.  Raven doesn't wield magic.  She isn't a mage.  Her powers are magical in origin.  She uses magic like Captain Marvel uses magic.
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raven cause jean grey would just die without the phoenix

I'm pretty sure that Xavier has controlled like an entire planet or something on that level?

"Zoom said:

"erik said:

"Xavier is still called the most powerful telepath."

By who?  Xavier doesn't have half the ability of Manchester Black or Doctor Psycho.  He has trouble controling more than one mind at once.  Exodus can block Xavier's attacks while beating the hell out of the Avengers.  Moondragon and Enchantress have flat out made it where he couldn't read their thoughts or the thoughts of anyone on their respective teams.

Xavier is in the bottom 25% of comic book telepaths easily.  Jean is even lower.

And for your information, I've read X-Men comics for 16 years.

And for your information, Raven doesn't use magic at all and since you didn't know that, you obviously lack the capacity to judge this fight with any degree of accuracy.
Edit: Let me rephrase that last bit.  Raven doesn't wield magic.  She isn't a mage.  Her powers are magical in origin.  She uses magic like Captain Marvel uses magic.
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Dude yes Xavier does he lobomized Magneto, and Magnetos helmet is TP proof, he turned him into a vegtable in seconds, also Xavier power is what mostly made up Onslaught, so hes a top tier on tp powers alone and jeans powers rival his, she held that entire ship together when it was attacked by the phoenix. 
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Well i was wrong i am not afraid to admit when im wrong, i remembered incorrectly. But still Xaiver is a top tier on Tp alone and jean rivals him. Jean wins

"This battle is retarded raven wins
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