What most people don't understand is that speed of DBZ characters isn't the same as the speed of marvel or DC characters.
When Marvel/DC characters are flying, the longer they fly the faster they'll go, until they reach their top speed, for which it usually takes them at least few seconds,
When DBZ characters are flying, they reach their top speed almost instantly, and then they are losing it the longer they fly.
Take a look at those scans, Goku started flying extremely fast, but he couldn't hold that same speed for to long
With Superman for example is opposite, the longer he fly the faster he goes, until he reaches his top speed.
I think it is obvious, that early DBZ characters can react and fight at light speed, however they can't cross long distances.
my theory:
The speed of DBZ char.=energy/distance
so if a character has energy 100, and the distance is 50, his speed will be 2. But if distance is 2 his speed will be 50.
Ofc we cannot use this formula to precisely calculate their speed, it just show the principles on which their speed works.
There are still lots of other things we should include in this equation, like stamina, and rate at which they recover their energy.
ABOUT LONG DISTANCE TRAVEL (1 000 000km) :
Goku after his training with King Kai traveled for 27-28 hours (Edit: It was less then 2 days, probably 27 or 28h) from one end of Snake way to the other. Snake way was 1 000 000 km long which means, Goku at PL 5000 can fly around mach 30.
This is the only certain data that we have.
After that he powered up from 5000 to over 8000, and used KKx3, therefore he should be faster then mach 68 (30+30x3=120)
after his training under 100G he was obviously much faster in his base form then he was while using KKx3 during saiyan saga, so he should be faster then mach 120 without KK, and with KKx20 he should be more then 2520 x faster then sound, much more. "(68+68x20=1428)
After that there is no valid feat from which we could measure their speed, so it is mostly up to personal opinion.
, but there are few feats which are going in favor of my theory
For example Buu is in same speed category as SSJ3, and he destroyed several hundreds of planets in few years, and most likely he was aiming only for a life containing planets.
Planets are revolving around stars, usually no more then 10 planets around one star, and stars are light years distant from each other (closest star to our sun is 4.3 light years away)
So he would have to go FTL to achieve this feat.
Further more
(Light circles earths equator 7.48 times in one second, Gotenks did 5 circles, but much bigger then equator). Gotenks was only full powered SSJ here.
Some of you like to say that he was flying for 29 minutes, because he separated when he came to Buu. But even this was explained on the next page where he said how he took a nap while he was waiting for Piccolo.
Second argument is that it took him almost 1 minute to get to Buu, but Piccolo said that 1 minute just approximately, since he didn’t have a watch. Besides it is not like he must fly at his full speed all the time.
So let me hear your opinion, and what are you basing it on, this would be mine
I think Goku could travel the snake way with average speed of:
Goku PL 5000 30x faster then sound
Goku SSJ 799 000 x faster then sound
Gohan SSJ2 around 20 x Faster then light
Goku SSJ3 around 2 000x faster then light
you could find some of mine older posts with different numbers, but that is because back then I thought Goku SSJ1 had PL 15 000 000, and I thought it took goku 2 days to finish the snake road. (Goku SSJ PL 150 000 000, snake road 27-28h)
Reaction time, combat and short distance travel speed?
Long distance travel speed of DBZ characters from the beginning of DBZ is only super sonic, however..
..what about their reaction time, combat and short distance travel speed? DBZ characters fighting speed has always been better then their travel speed, but is it possible that they were faster then lightning even at the beginning of DBZ ?
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EDITING...
Here I'll list the feats which shows how they were able to strike dodge and react faster then sound during the DB.
Sub sonic
Goku Krillin yamcha at the beginning of DB had fair amount of super speed but still they were probably slower then sound
IMO Mach 1 – Mach 100
After the training with master Roshi Goku gains massive power up.
First scan Goku trows Giran far in the sky, it would have to move your hands extremely fast to do that, probably faster then sound.
Second scan Krillin kicked that guy and send him flying threw wall. Force= mass x speed and krillin had around 30 kg. I am pretty sure that kick must have been faster then sound to produce so much force.
3th and 4th scans Goku moving so fast that he creates after images
5th Scan Goku reacting and deflecting bullets.
6th 7th and 8th scan are most important. Namu, who is much slower then Roshi and Goku who is slower then Roshi were have both jumped miles in the air in matter of seconds. He would have to move much faster then sound to reach this hight. When you jump, you go much faster at first and then you slow down, it looks like to me his average speed at this jump was at least few hundred meters per second, but his top speed at the beginning of jump must have been much higher. Also the speed at which he moved his legs must have been massively faster then sound.
9th scan. Bora trows Goku and Yajirobe above clouds for which you would have to move your hand faster then sound.
10th scan Goku creating many after images.
11th scan Goku dodging bullets head on.
IMO approximately Mach 100 – Mach 1 000
Roshi, Tao, Goku(after training with Karin)
Scan 1 Goku faster then a dragon ball.
Scan 2 he punched through metal robot. you must be moving much faster then sound to do that.
Scans 3 and 4 Tao Pai Pai rips a stone pillar then toss in the air, and after that he jumps on stone pillar, proving he is faster then a pillar.
Stone pillar was thrown so fast it was flying for 30 minutes.
This proves Tao can move his arm and body massively faster then sound.
Scan 5 He repeated the feat.
Scan 6 and 7 he throws Bora in the air hundreds of meters with mere gesture of hand.
Scan 8 show how Goku after training with Karin became faster then Tao.
Scans 9-13 Krillin and Roshi had a whole fight scene in 1 second.
keep in mind few thing: 1. Krillin who is much slower was still able to fallow his movements, indicating that Roshi still wasn't serious. Once he got serious he KOed Krillin easily. and 2. Krillins fall took at least 0.5 seconds, which means fight excluding fall was shorter then 0.5 seconds.
Scan 14 Roshi creating many after images.
Scan 15 After being shot at, Roshi was able to turn around and catch 9 bullets.
Scan 16 Roshi moved his hand so fast it created a wind so strong it blowed away a 70-80kg heavy superhuman and smashed him into a wall.
To do this you have to be able to move your hand much faster then sound.
IMO approximately Mach 1 000 – Mach 10 000
Tien Goku 22th budokai Tamborine
Scans 1 and 2 Goku jumped and in no time he was this high.
Scans 3 and 4 Goku punched Krilling and everyone except Tien thought he just scared him.
Scans 5 and 6 are most important. Goku was able to move so fast he became invisible even for master Roshi whose speed feats you can see above. Goku was so fast that not even master Roshi, who can easily see bullets was able to see him. Speed of bullet is around 1200-1500 m/s ("Ballistics. The World Book Encyclopedia. New York: World Book, 1998.") , and bullet is approximately 1000+ times smaller then Goku, which makes it 1000+ times harder to see.
Scan 7 he did it again.
Scan 8 he creates many after images
Scan 9 cool punching feat from Tien
IMO approximately Mach 10 000 – Mach 200 000
King Piccolo, Goku (after drinking sacred water) Krillin (23th budokai) Tien (23th budokai).
After he drank that mystic water he become faster or as fast as young king Piccolo Doimao, who is incomparably faster then old one.
This shows how much faster Goku became after drinking sacred water
Faster then lightning (0.3x speed of light)
Mr Popo Kami Goku Piccolo
But even after drinking water and beating king Piccolo, Goku was still so slow that he couldn't even see mr. Popo. Mr Popo stated how he can move faster then lightning, and he was training goku so he could do the same. So is it possible that mr. Popo was actually faster then lightning? lets take a look at some other feats
Master roshi and Piccolo showed us how fast their energy beams are.
Piccolo destroyed moon in matter of seconds, and roshi did the same, it only took him few seconds more.
This proves how at this point their beams were faster then lightning, possible even light speed fast.
Raditz dodged a beam which was called light of dead, and he started to move after the beam was only few meters away from him.
We have seen Piccolo destroying a moon in matter of seconds, now we see here Raditz dodging an attack from piccolo which is called LIGHT of dead. I would say it is high possibility that that attack was at light speed, and raditz dodged it, after it was only few meters away from him.
If that attack really is light speed that would mean Raditz can move near the light speed.
The beam was 2-3m away from him before he started to move, and he moved 20-30 cm, which puts him at minimum 0.1xlight speed.
Goku running away from a beam
From this scan you can clearly see how Raditz is almost as fast as Gokus beam.
Take a look at right panel of a first scan, Goku has fired his beam and the beam is around 5-6 m away from the ground. on the next panel you can see the beam is around 0.5 m from the ground and Raditz has moved 4-5 m from the place where he used to be. this proves they are nearly as fast as their beams. on the second scan you can see Raditz is running from a beam, but he can't maintain the speed for to long so he stops and tanks the beam.
Here fat frog stopped the time and you can clearly see how they are nearly as fast as their beams.
So, we have 2 statements that they are faster then lightning, we have 2 feats which proves their beams are faster then lightning, and we have tons of feats which proves how they are nearly as fast as their beams are, so why are there so many people thinking they are not?
Speed of lightning can be up to 0.5x the speed of light, but average is 0.3.
So they could reach light speed even with PL under few thousands, while SSJ Goku (namek saga) had PL 150 000 000.
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/goku-vs-green-lantern/14212/?page=3
About Gokus strength
Since this goku has no strength feats that I am aware of, Ill have to start from General Tao
(strength and durability of indian)
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v13/c005/2.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/dragon-ball-chapter-84-page-5.html
Taos strength
http://manga.bleachexile.com/dragon-ball-chapter-85-page-12.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v08/c002/6.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v08/c002/13.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v08/c006/3.html
http://manga.bleachexile.com/dragon-ball-chapter-87-page-2.html
As you can see Tao was able to trow a pillar heavier than 100 kg miles away
was able to easily beat this Indian who was super human.
he also killed a man with a finger, and other one (who was above peak human) with his tongue.
I would estimate his strength around 5-10 T plz correct me if you think different.
(actually to trow a pillar heavier than 100 kg miles away you have to be even stronger than this, but i want to play on sure this time)
Then after Tower, Goku became stronger than Tao
http://manga.bleachexile.com/dragon-ball-chapter-86.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v08/c010/4.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v08/c008/10.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v08/c011/3.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v08/c012/11.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v08/c012/13.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v10/c002/15.html
So here gokus strength is probably around 6-11 T, plz correct me if you think different.Then he trained for The 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, and become stronger and older
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v10/c006/7.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v11/c007/8.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v10/c007/4.html
Then he got beaten by old Piccolo whose strength couldnt be lower than 9-15 T
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v12/c012/7.html
Than piccolo became young and much stronger
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v13/c009/2.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v14/c003/
He couldn't be weaker than 12-17 T plz correct me if you think different.Than goku drank some magical water and became stronger than Piccolo
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v14/c005/4.html
couldn't be less than 13-18T plz correct me if you think different.
Still mr popo was much stronger than goku, popo couldn't be less than 15-20 T plz correct me if you think different.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v14/c007/8.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v14/c008/4.html
And Kami was much much stronger than booth of themhttp://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v14/c008/11.html
There is no way Kami is weaker than 18-23T plz correct me if you think different.
Than after training with Kami Goku became stronger than he is
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v15/c008/9.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v15/c009/2.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v16/c004/4.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v16/c005/12.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v16/c007/5.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v16/c008/4.html
He couldn't be weaker than 19-24 T plz correct me if you think different.The when DBZ started he was little bit more stronger
but still he was much weaker than raditz who was at least 22-26 T
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v17/c199/13.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v17/c202/10.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v17/c202/5.html
than he trained with King kai and became much much much stronger and fasterRaditz was as strong as Saibamens and krillen and Tien overpowered them witch means now Krillens and tiens strength has became at least 22-26 T . Piccolo was much stronger than they are at least 24-28 T. And Nappa was much stronger than piccolo, so strong that picolo wasnt able to hurt nappa, and nappa KO piccolo with single punch. So there's no way Nappa is weaker than 27-31 T plz correct me if you think different.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v18/c009/5.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v18/c009/6.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v18/c009/10.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c001/4.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c002/13.html
And Goku without using KK was playing with nappahttp://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c009/5.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c009/11.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v19/c010/12.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c233/13.html
So there is simply no way Goku is weaker than 29-33 T plz correct me if you think different.And after using KK his strength was doubled 60-65 T
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/dragon_ball/v20/c231/2.html
And he still have KKx2, KKx3 and KKx4
there is no way goku is weaker than this, he probably is stronger.
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