Silver Surfer X-Man Rachel, Jean, Cassandra Nova, Professor X, Emma Frost (depends on who hits first - though Superman might have high resistanc, since I believe J'onn put in mental defenses). I'm lumping these guys together. Iceman Apocalypse Ghost Rider Dr. Strange (pre-depowering) Havok (sun-dipped. Actually, in theory, he might beat him without that. I'll explain if the time comes) Magneto Thor (depending)
Not counting high Cosmic beings.
Now watch a bunch of people say Sentry, Gladiator, and Hyperion. Just watch.
"Silver Surfer X-Man Rachel, Jean, Cassandra Nova, Professor X, Emma Frost (depends on who hits first - though Superman might have high resistanc, since I believe J'onn put in mental defenses). I'm lumping these guys together.Iceman Apocalypse Ghost Rider Dr. Strange (pre-depowering) Havok (sun-dipped. Actually, in theory, he might beat him without that. I'll explain if the time comes) Magneto Thor (depending) Not counting high Cosmic beings. Now watch a bunch of people say Sentry, Gladiator, and Hyperion. Just watch. "
these guys are too slow but Iceman might stalemate him, he will destroy Magneto and Apocalypse with speed. Superman makes Quicsilver slow and Superman has the strength of Thor
" Silver Surfer X-Man Rachel, Jean, Cassandra Nova, Professor X, Emma Frost (depends on who hits first - though Superman might have high resistanc, since I believe J'onn put in mental defenses). I'm lumping these guys together.Iceman Apocalypse Ghost Rider Dr. Strange (pre-depowering) Havok (sun-dipped. Actually, in theory, he might beat him without that. I'll explain if the time comes) Magneto Thor (depending) Not counting high Cosmic beings. Now watch a bunch of people say Sentry, Gladiator, and Hyperion. Just watch. "
Explain the bolded one please, especially Havok...
1. Superman has no way of keeping Ghost Rider down. Ghost Rider, however, can strike at Kal-El's soul. 2. Already explained Magneto and Apocalypse. 3. Now Havok is an interesting one. As far as I can tell, it's who hits first and whether Havok would even think about it. If we remove CIS and he actually uses his powers, he might be able to drain Superman of yellow solar rays, which is Havok's primary power in the first place. No yellow sun light, no powers for Supes.
" @JediXMan: magento shield has no chance to stop superman an iceman what is he going to do ? "
I think it depends on what powerlevel Magneto is at.
@Metatron_Da_Don said:
" @JediXMan said:
" Havok (sun-dipped. Actually, in theory, he might beat him without that. I'll explain if the time comes) "
How? Havok absorbs a cache of ambient Kryptonite radiation? o.O Please explain? "
I already explained in a post above:
@JediXMan said:
" 3. Now Havok is an interesting one. As far as I can tell, it's who hits first and whether Havok would even think about it. If we remove CIS and he actually uses his powers, he might be able to drain Superman of yellow solar rays, which is Havok's primary power in the first place. No yellow sun light, no powers for Supes. "
@JediXMan: 1. Ok, but doesnt the penance stare only work on evil souls? 2. Nothing Magneto or Superman can throw at Superman will hurt him. Magneto's reaction speed is nowhere close to Supermans either. As far as Magneto's shields go, im sure Superman can break through them.....but then again I dont really know how powerful they are. Magneto may also be able to shut down the electromagnetic impulses in Superman's brain....but idk 3. So Havok's main power is to absorb solar energy? Since when? Has he ever drained anybody? Superman has been shown to recharge under the sun very quickly so unless Havok can block the radiation from entering Superman I dont see draining being much of a problem. Also are Havok's physical atrributes increased when he absorbs sun radiation?
@JediXMan: ? give an example of what power level i don't read x-men much,so i want to know the scale of his shield an two is he shield not made from magnetic force
1. Depends. I believe it also works if you have something to feel guilty for, but I'm not sure. 2. I'm not completely sure if it would work, honestly. 3. Yes. Sun-dipped refers to when he's had the power of a sun. He's done it at least two times, and one of those times was when he drained one of Vulcan's men who was a living sun. He showed the ability to beat the crap out of Vulcan twice after absorbing a massive amount of energy, something Black Bolt wasn't even capable of - and Vulcan simply gestured to beat Havok prior to his absorbing that much energy.
Silver Surfer - Yes he could. X-Man - Maybe because of him having mental attacks but besides that Supes owns him. Supes can break reality and absorb different forms of enegry. X-man is enegry. Supes will beat him. Rachel, Jean, Cassandra Nova, Professor X, Emma Frost (depends on who hits first - though Superman might have high resistanc, since I believe J'onn put in mental defenses). I'm lumping these guys together. Supes moves faster than the speed of thought. And if Supes wanted 2 could just destory the earth along with all the them. Supes has resisted TP......but it does work. IF you loop them together then yeah you maybe right. Iceman - NO WAY NO HOW Apocalypse - Been done in forms he loses. IF Supes lets him or if Supes is holding back MMMMMMMAAAAAYYYYYYBBBBBBBBEEEEEE Ghost Rider - I dont think so....pendant stare wont hurt Supes because his soul is pure. Speed of light, plus insane strength should be enough. Dr. Strange (pre-depowering) - Magic can work....yes but Supes has resisted it. If Strange plans it out and attacks him from over a distance yeah maybe. Face to face battle no way. Supes can destory the planet strange will be screwed. Havok (sun-dipped. Actually, in theory, he might beat him without that. I'll explain if the time comes) Havok loses Magneto - Yeah no way he is beating Supes Thor (depending) - Yeah he could.
" @JediXMan: ? give an example of what power level i don't read x-men much,so i want to know the scale of his shield an two is he shield not made from magnetic force "
He's been known to manipulate the Earth's gravity, such as switching the north and south poles. As for his shields, I'm having difficulty finding an example at the moment.
" Silver Surfer - Yes he could. X-Man - Maybe because of him having mental attacks but besides that Supes owns him. Supes can break reality and absorb different forms of enegry. X-man is enegry. Supes will beat him. Rachel, Jean, Cassandra Nova, Professor X, Emma Frost (depends on who hits first - though Superman might have high resistanc, since I believe J'onn put in mental defenses). I'm lumping these guys together. Supes moves faster than the speed of thought. And if Supes wanted 2 could just destory the earth along with all the them. Supes has resisted TP......but it does work. IF you loop them together then yeah you maybe right. Iceman - NO WAY NO HOW Apocalypse - Been done in forms he loses. IF Supes lets him or if Supes is holding back MMMMMMMAAAAAYYYYYYBBBBBBBBEEEEEE Ghost Rider - I dont think so....pendant stare wont hurt Supes because his soul is pure. Speed of light, plus insane strength should be enough. Dr. Strange (pre-depowering) - Magic can work....yes but Supes has resisted it. If Strange plans it out and attacks him from over a distance yeah maybe. Face to face battle no way. Supes can destory the planet strange will be screwed. Havok (sun-dipped. Actually, in theory, he might beat him without that. I'll explain if the time comes) Havok loses Magneto - Yeah no way he is beating Supes Thor (depending) -Yeah he could. " No he cant
@supermandefender: X-Man - Maybe because of him having mental attacks but besides that Supes owns him. Supes can break reality and absorb different forms of enegry. X-man is enegry. Supes will beat him. X-Man is pure psionic energy Supes has no way of hurting him Iceman - NO WAY NO HOW. Eventually yeah Iceman would win Ghost Rider - I dont think so....pendant stare wont hurt Supes because his soul is pure. Speed of light, plus insane strength should be enough. Nope I'm sure there is stuff that Supes has done that his Penance Stare could hurt him with Strength means nothing against GR, since he is immune to physical attacks
Xavier kills if he has time to enter his head, but I think Superman would rush him befre he plays mind games. Thanos would take it, with time to prepare he could amp his shields which are already strong enough to block Galactus...Thanos evolution in writing is he grows tougher all the time, he's going to be Skyfather soon and didn't get deflated or watered down like Darkseid or Marevl didn't get depowered like the crisisis of infinite earths. Thor - its a good debate but I think Superman wins with speed and Thor depends on the hammer too much. Super can shoot energy and fly without a weapon
@JediXMan: Ok, but how how much are his physical capabilities increased i dont know much about Black Bolt or Vulcan but I dont think they are anywhere close to Superman's level physically. And as I said before, draining doesnt work that well on Superman, as he is constantly absorbing sun radiation and can recharge almost instantly
10? Ok: The weakest about which I can think now: 1.Gladiator 2..Ghost Rider 3.Iceman 4.Xavier (see Ronan) 5.Ronan (yes, he could, what doesn't mean he will in normal battle) 6.Quasar 7.Stardust 8.Thor 9.Nova PRime 10.BRB
Nate Grey -maybe Classic Dr. Strange -yes Thanos no Professor X- no Beta Ray Bill-no Odin-yes
"
"
Thor - yes, he drain BRB - yes see above. X-Man - yes, Superman can't touch him, while X-Man can turn his mind off. Thanos - see X-Man Prof X- Yes, but in certain circumstances.
@HolySerpent said:
" @Zaiyan: superman is a alien and xavier has a hard time reading aliens minds "
His greates feat is with allien-minds.
To all people here: The question is who could kill Superman.
People like Iceman would win in some situations, but not in all. The same with Xavier, Gladiator, Ghost Rider or Ronan.
" @Zaiyan: superman is a alien and xavier has a hard time reading aliens minds "
Tell that to the billions of Skrulls that Xavier mindlinked and threw at Galactus. Or any of the Shi'ar who he communicate with accross galaxies.
Only ten? I'm tempted to give 50. Just off the top of my head, not including abstracts or galactic entities... Adam Warlock Silver Surfer Quasar Thor Jean Grey Photon/Pulsar Genis-Vel Phyla Vel (probably) X-man (he has multiversal manipulation feats with his tp, and exists as psionic energy, Supes can't do anything here) Cable at full power Stryfe Jaimie Braddock Mad Jim Jaspers Proteus Legion Magician Hyperstorm Gambit (with New Son level powers) Stardust Nova Prime Ghost Rider (doesn't need a penance stare) Dr Strange Hope Summers Mr M Molecule Man Sentry Thanos Iceman (Supes has no attacks that can hurt him, at best he could stalemate) The Collective Armageddon Man Alpha the Omega Mutant Elixir Vulcan Karima Shapandar (probably) Dr. Doom, Reed Richards, Magneto,Forge, Apocalypse with even a little prep. (Mags might be able to even without prep. Magneto's shields have withstood Galactus and the Phoenix, they can take Supes a few times. And with his energy manipulation, it's entirely possible he could trap Supes in a metal sheath, drain his Yellow sun radiation (part of the electromagnetic spectrum remember), and prevent him from absorbing new radiation.)
There are more. I may add more later as I think of them.
@hydrabob: . X-man is enegry. Supes will beat him. X-Man is pure psionic energy Supes has no way of hurting him. IF he is a form of Energy then Supes can Absorb it....or he can just drop the guy off in a blackhole using FTL speeds? Supes has broken/tore reality itself and you dont think he can manage find a way to hurt psionic enegry? . Eventually yeah Iceman would win NO ICEMAN WILL NOT! NEVER! Nope I'm sure there is stuff that Supes has done that his Penance Stare could hurt him with Strength means nothing against GR, since he is immune to physical attacks Yes he is....he can just heal. If Superman can defeat or defy death I dont think Ghost rider is that much of a issue.
" @hydrabob: . X-man is enegry. Supes will beat him. X-Man is pure psionic energy Supes has no way of hurting him. IF he is a form of Energy then Supes can Absorb it....or he can just drop the guy off in a blackhole using FTL speeds? Supes has broken/tore reality itself and you dont think he can manage find a way to hurt psionic enegry? . Eventually yeah Iceman would win NO ICEMAN WILL NOT! NEVER! Nope I'm sure there is stuff that Supes has done that his Penance Stare could hurt him with Strength means nothing against GR, since he is immune to physical attacks Yes he is....he can just heal. If Superman can defeat or defy death I dont think Ghost rider is that much of a issue.
Supes...body...absorbed...electricity. "
This proves nothing. It's been long established in comics, that solar absorbers can also absorb electricity in less than optimal circumstances. Cyclops once absorbed Storm's lightning and used his ocular blasts to repower an artificial sun. It doesn't in any way imply that they could absorb psionic energy at all, and certainly not sentient psionic energy, which can oppose said absorption. Not to mention that the scan you use is the JLA all shrunken by the Atom and by shrinking and speeding them up, it interfered with their powers. Since everyone else's powers also started coming back at the same approximate time, it doesn't even hold that Supes did absorb electricity in that instance. His powers may have just come back like everybody else's. Even if Supes were a top notch energy manipulator, he wouldn't just be able to absorb Nate, who is just plain out of his league. By lightyears. Nate was measure in powerlevel to be equal to Dark Phoenix, and he's had even higher showings since then. If you think Supes can take Dark Phoenix, then there's no point even trying to debate you since you'd be delusional. X-man is a guy who kills people, then brings them back to life, just to defeat them again. He defeats gods, destroys planets, and using tp alone, searches the infite expanse of the multiverse, locates the fractured pieces of a soul and reassembles them. TP is one of Supe's weaknesses, and Nate is easily the one of the most powerful telepaths in comics, short of the Presence or TOAA. Add in his TK, which is also unmatched, and the fact that Supes can't physically hurt him in any way. Supes can't even physically touch him unless Nate allows it. X-man stomps him. This is one of the worst ones to try and argue against.
As far as Bobby. He may or may not be able to hurt Supes. Prolonged exposure to absolute zero should hurt Superman, but I digress. Whether Bobby can or can't hurt Supes, Superman cannot hurt Bobby. He also can exist without a body. The best Supes can do is a stalemate, while Bobby may be able to hurt him...freezing him from the inside out, boosting himself physically to Supes level, etc...
Ghost Rider has hurt Superman level beings before, but again, pure physical attacks won't work against GR. If Supes has no attacks that can harm him, but Ghostie has attacks that can harm Supes, how does Superman win again?
@JediXMan: well i don't wanna join in on the large list of people attacking you but i have to agree on a few points
1. superman has the purest soul that i know of, he has no evil for Ghost rider's stare to torment, also in the recent wolverine series, a possessed Logan took down two ghost riders with relative ease, if wolverine can take two down, supes can DEFINITELY take one
2. although ice man is an omega mutant, there's nothing he can do to keep supes down, superman regularly goes through space, that's below zero temps, and flies through suns, elemental attacks rarely work on him,while supes could just use heat vision (which can melt steel) to take out ice man from afar
3. lastly magneto has the best shot, and he COULD win, if he goes all out and extract the metals from supe's body, however as much as it pains me to say this...*sigh* superman could speed blitz him ( I HATE using speed blitz as a way to win) as well as penetrate most force fields magneto creates
I agree with all your statements....Except i think its iffy if magneto can extract metals out of superman himself. He maybe able to I dunno and i dont wanna say your wrong because I dunno Magnetos powers maybe able to get thru Supermans defenses but my thoughts are going back to Supermans defenses. Superman has a invisible skin tight forcefield thats surounds his body...this helps prevent transmutation and other crazy effects...it may also hold back magneto but hey i dunno like i said before....everything else u say i agree with 100%.
bag_o_x_men: You have a point about it not proving that Superman is capable of absorbing psionic enegry but it does proof that Superman does absorb different forms of enegry and they all have some sort of effect on him whether it empowers him or depowers or makes him become the badboy like red kryptonite radiation.
Radiation is just a form of enegry.....which Supermans body absorbs. Superman cant help this 90% of the time, his body just does it on its own. This is why he falls weak to Green kryptonite or absorbs too much red sunlight which depowers him. Superman has absorbed heat from rocks, straight out of rampage, mageddon (which was anti-sunlight), even magical enegries....and SBP absorbed GL's enegries which aged him and gave him wicked powers as Superman Prime. Considering these I cant see why Superman wouldnt be capable of absorbing another form of enegry....as long as it is a form of enegry Superman should be able to absorb it? But i cant be 100% about positive about psionics. So you have a point.
The next topic id like to discuss is X-Man vs Phoenix.....X-Man beating the Phoenix is PIS. Nate has extremely powerful TP and he didnt beat the phoenix with it but the phoenixs host who surpressed the Phoneix.
And if you listened to me the topic is about killing Superman.....ive already listed X-man as a maybe I just dont feel his chances are better than Silver Surfers which i gave a yes he could and Thors i gave a yes he could. Powerful TP is tricky and no doubt in my mind he could mind control Superman but without any knowledge of how to kill Supes it wouldnt be a for sure kill. So I maybed him off that bases alone. Superman has broke reality before so....this to me would be enough means to actually do harm onto X-man.....plus i dunno if X-man can espace blackholes....if Supes speed blizted him he could drop in a blackhole. Light cannot escape its grab and if he is enegry he is slower than light. Im just thinking factors dont have a heart attack ok?
Iceman wont beat Supes no matter how much you try to conivence me. Iceman wont be able to kill Supes.
Ghost rider wont beat Superman to death either. IF supes is fighting him the possibilities for Superman actually dying against ghost rider are very low. Ghost..rider...will..have...troubles...if...death..itself...has..troubles.
" @JediXMan: well i don't wanna join in on the large list of people attacking you but i have to agree on a few points 1. superman has the purest soul that i know of, he has no evil for Ghost rider's stare to torment, also in the recent wolverine series, a possessed Logan took down two ghost riders with relative ease, if wolverine can take two down, supes can DEFINITELY take one 2. although ice man is an omega mutant, there's nothing he can do to keep supes down, superman regularly goes through space, that's below zero temps, and flies through suns, elemental attacks rarely work on him,while supes could just use heat vision (which can melt steel) to take out ice man from afar 3. lastly magneto has the best shot, and he COULD win, if he goes all out and extract the metals from supe's body, however as much as it pains me to say this...*sigh* superman could speed blitz him ( I HATE using speed blitz as a way to win) as well as penetrate most force fields magneto creates "
1. No one's talking about penance stare. I agree, it wouldn't work. Ghost Rider has many other abilities, i.e. hellfire, magical weapon, magic, taking Supes to hell, etc... The only thing with Ghost Rider is that he wouldn't attack Supes without some wrongdoing, but for argument's sake, if they fough I think Ghost Rider could beat him. 2. Below zero is nowhere near absolute zero. Absolute zero is when all molecular motion, and as a result, all molecular function stops. That could make even Supes dead IMO. And Bobby can amp himself to take Supes physically. He's been way above hundred ton before (as strong as he needs to get in Marvel), and he can get even stronger. Heat vision would do nothing but destroy Bobby's body. That neither stops, nor hurts him. He can survive without a body, and recreate his body from anything, including moisture leached from Superman's body. 3. I don't see Mags taking metals out of Supes. His durability is too high. Magneto's big advantage is radiation manipulation. He can manipulate everything Superman uses to power himself. He could wrap Supes in a metal coffin, and while Supes is fighting to get out, and expending energy I might add, Mags can leach Supermans yellow sun rads, and prevent him from absorbing more. As for Magneto's force fields, they've held up to Galactus and Phoenix. Supes could break them, but not without several full power blows. Mags can deal with him in that time. He can sense Supes through the Earth's EM field, and react fast enough to tag him. He's also fast enough to get his shields up before a speed blitz. Supes rarely goes above lightspeed in atmosphere. Mags has reacted to Northstar at full speed (99% lightspeed) and has astrally kept up with Photon at lightspeed. Mags also has the ability to force someone into the astral, and he could take Supes there.
@supermandefender: I agree Supes absorbs different energies. My real point is that since X-man exists as psionic energy, he will be able to oppose any attempt at using his own energy. Supes certainly may be able to absorb ambient psionic energy based on his energy absorption displayed before, but I doubt he could take X-man's personal energy. X-man Phoenix I wasn't talking about a fight, but an instrumental measurement of his powerlevel. He was stated as having powerlevel matching Dark Phoenix. I'll give you a scan. And that was all before Shaman, and his power upgrades. He's mutiversal and then some. X-man is as fast as Supes, so speed blitz is out, and even if Supes gets him into a black hole Nate's physical body dies, he goes astral and reconstitutes himself outside of it. That's all assuming Nate doesn't just phase. He can be incorporeal as well. And for the record, X-man > Surfer. For Iceman and Ghost Rider, see my arguments above. And I know you're just arguing for your boy. Me too. We're cool. =) I don't usually mean to come accross as quite such a douche as I appear to sometimes. And the Superman/Death thing is moot. Superman has already been established as too important to DC's universe to ever die basically, so that scan doesn't count IMO. I think the OP wanted what it takes to kill him barring that. I also have a pretty lengthy list on page two. I'd welcome your opinions. Here are a couple of scans for X-man for you.
Here he is, as little more than a baby, fresh in this reality, and he recognizes he being tracked astrally and pulls Professor Xavier out, who's every bit the telepath Martian Manhunter is.
Telekinetically embarrassing Abomination. Not a huge feat except for the ease with which Nate manhandles him. He also manipulates him with tp later.
Here he is fighting and defeating three elder gods. Global tk feat. He also mindreads one. That's an impressive tp feat.
And more with the elder gods...
Brings Madelyn Pryor back to life.
These next two, he mindlinks someone with all the multiversal versions of herself.
@bag_o_x_men: Well said your problly right. If Supes is unable to speed blizt the guy then that takes out alot of supes chances here. Very nice scans btw. And yeah me to I might have came off that way and i do alot specially when it comes to Surfer vs Supes debates. I hate it lol! Its hard to tell the haters from the honest opinions sometimes. Appeciate ya opinion. And like I said your problly right i have my doubts that Supes could actually absorb some of X-Mans energy. I bring it up because the topic is about killing Superman and anyone possing Supes weaknesses has a better chance of killing him than guys that do not. X-man does but TP attacks isnt a for sure means that Supes will be dead...his mind be all messed up and if X-Man doesnt know how powerful Supes is he may send him into a sun thinking its going to kill him and it wont. Where as Surfer or Thor they have for sure means of killing Superman.
Also id like to point out something you brought up about Ghost rider. You said this comment if they fough I think Ghost Rider could beat him. I agree. If Batman a ordinary human can find a way to defeat Superman anybody could. Anybody has the potential to win but to kill Superman is a different Story and will they win majority of the times is also a different story....could Iceman, Magneto and Ghost Rider beat Superman.....yeah sure. But would they win best out of 10 I disagree with that....and can they kill Superman.....very very unlikely IMO but you are also entitled to your opinion. U seem cool and i dont view u as a hater lol so ill remember that in future debates ^_^; Id like to add one more thing Doomsday killed Supes but Sunlight brought Superman back from the dead. So even if they find a way to kill him if his body is near yellow sunlight he will just be revived again. It also furthers his powers heals him and is the source of his power all in one.
Nate Grey -maybe Classic Dr. Strange -yes Thanos no Professor X- no Beta Ray Bill-no Odin-yes
"
"
Thor- Yes, Thor would drain him with mjolnir or rearrange his molecules or hit with the God blast/Anti force blast Nate Grey- Yes he is pure energy and Supes can't hit him and his TP or TK would end this quickly Thanos- Don't know alot about Thanos but I just assume he would beat him Professor X- If he got the chance Yes he would mindrape Supes or destroy him in the astral plane BRB- Same as Thor
@supermandefender: You're right. Killing him will be very hard. A single kill counts though, right? Not permanent death, which seems basically impossible. I figure if Ghost Rider dimension dumps Supes into Hell, Superman would eventually run out of energy and Ghostie could kill him. Iceman would be hard pressed to kill him, so I'll concede that. Supes can't kill Bobby, but it's probable that Bobby can't kill him either. My plan for Magneto is actually with prep. It's possible he could without, but like you said, probably not for majority. I think if Mags had a plan in place, he'd have a machine to boost his already considerable power, drain Supes, and then dead. Anyone who can drain his solar radiation, and or prevent Supes from absorbing more, should be able to kill him.
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