Gandalf the Grey vs Severus Snape

Round 1: Movie versions.

Round 2: Book versions.

Battle ends in death, no prep.

Battle takes place in Middle Earth.

Who wins?

1)Snape

2)Gendalf stomps

@D3athstroke said:

1)Snape

2)Gendalf stomps

Have any reasons?

Snape wins both round. Using book Gandalf isn't going to do any better. His magic was vague at best, and seem to be rather passive in nature. Snape in the book didn't need to mutter spells like in the movie. A simple thought would suffice in invoking the spell.

@MasterJohn said:

@D3athstroke said:

1)Snape

2)Gendalf stomps

Have any reasons?

Movie Gendalf had low showings his magical skills where pathetic he was weak and on top of that he was mortal Human

In books he was Maiar not Human and had way better feats

Gandalf solo's Hogwarts..

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

Gandalf solo's Hogwarts..

Book version probably can.

Oh come on. Both versions of Gandalf took down a Balrog an ancient Demon created by Morgoth (Arda's version of the Devil). He curbstomps HIDEOUSLY! There is nothing in HP verse that comes close to the power or evil of a Balrog. That feat alone is far more impressive than anything anyone in HP ever did simple as.

@Sethlol said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

Gandalf solo's Hogwarts..

Book version probably can.

Agreed.

@SSJLozza said:

Oh come on. Both versions of Gandalf took down a Balrog an ancient Demon created by Morgoth (Arda's version of the Devil). He curbstomps HIDEOUSLY! There is nothing in HP verse that comes close to the power or evil of a Balrog. That feat alone is far more impressive than anything anyone in HP ever did simple as.

Snape can cast killing curses and dark magic, you can not give me a clear explination on what type of Magic Gandalf uses.

Plus, a killing curse can finish him. Avada kedavra.

We all know the wizard of the white council stomps.both versions. before snape can even cast a spell, he just turns his wand into ash.

@ghostrider fan1 said:

We all know the wizard of the white council stomps.both versions. before snape can even cast a spell, he just turns his wand into ash.

He couldn't do that. He only did that when he kicked Saruman from the wizard council.

@MasterJohn: I really don't see how AK is going to kill someone in the same tier as Sauron.

@ghostrider fan1: yeah but it's Gandalf the Grey. He still stomps imo just specifying.

@MasterJohn: why couldnt he do that? sure, he did it to Saruman when he was the white, someone who is of the same kind as him, but not a human before he became the white?

Magic may not be the same but there is no reason that Gandalf shield spell wouldn't protect himself from Snape's magic.

As for Gandalf lightning against the Goblins as he did in the hobbit I am unsure if Snape can dodge them all, or cancel them. Harry Potter is pretty clear that magic can be blocked by Magic but some of Gandalf's spells although weak don't specifically target someone.

This is like putting a fencer against a giant with a large tree for a weapon. Two different styles don't actually make for a really even fight.

@ghostrider fan1 said:

@MasterJohn: why couldnt he do that? sure, he did it to Saruman when he was the white, someone who is of the same kind as him, but not a human before he became the white?

Saruman was apart of the ORDER. Gandalf was kicking him out of the order.

"'I did not give you leave to go,' said Gandalf sternly. 'I have not finished. You have become a fool, Saruman, and yet pitiable. You might still have turned away from folly and evil, and have been of service. But you choose to stay and gnaw the ends of your old plots. Stay then! But I warn you: you will not easily come out again. Not unless the dark hands of the East stretch out to take you, Saruman!' he cried, and his voice grew in power and authority. 'Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council.' He raised his hand, and spoke slowly in a clear cold voice. 'Saruman, your staff is broken.' There was a crack, and the staff split asunder in Saruman's hand, and the head of it fell down at Gandalf's feet. 'Go!' said Gandalf. With a cry Saruman fell back and crawled away." - Lord of the Rings; The Two Towers.

I've made my point.

@MasterJohn said:

@ghostrider fan1 said:

@MasterJohn: why couldnt he do that? sure, he did it to Saruman when he was the white, someone who is of the same kind as him, but not a human before he became the white?

Saruman was apart of the ORDER. Gandalf was kicking him out of the order.

"'I did not give you leave to go,' said Gandalf sternly. 'I have not finished. You have become a fool, Saruman, and yet pitiable. You might still have turned away from folly and evil, and have been of service. But you choose to stay and gnaw the ends of your old plots. Stay then! But I warn you: you will not easily come out again. Not unless the dark hands of the East stretch out to take you, Saruman!' he cried, and his voice grew in power and authority. 'Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council.' He raised his hand, and spoke slowly in a clear cold voice. 'Saruman, your staff is broken.' There was a crack, and the staff split asunder in Saruman's hand, and the head of it fell down at Gandalf's feet. 'Go!' said Gandalf. With a cry Saruman fell back and crawled away." - Lord of the Rings; The Two Towers.

I've made my point.

Why does this mean that a wizard of Gandalfs standing couldn't destroy Snapes wand? I mean in HP you have your wand SNAPPED no magic involved if you get expelled from Hogwarts, and wizards do not possess superhuman strength in this verse so I'm guessing their wands are quite fragile. This is a horrible mismatch bro, a better match up would be Dumbledore vs Gandalf and Gandalf still wins!

@Quartermaim said:

This is like putting a fencer against a giant with a large tree for a weapon. Two different styles don't actually make for a really even fight.

lol

@SSJLozza Why does this mean that a wizard of Gandalfs standing couldn't destroy Snapes wand? I mean in HP you have your wand SNAPPED no magic involved if you get expelled from Hogwarts, and wizards do not possess superhuman strength in this verse so I'm guessing their wands are quite fragile. This is a horrible mismatch bro, a better match up would be Dumbledore vs Gandalf and Gandalf still wins!

I'm saying he can't say "Snape, your wand is broken". Because there's no evidence he can. He only was able to say that because he was booting Saruman from the council, nothing canon can say otherwise.

Plus, you can't give me 1 power except featless fire, of what Gandalf can do to Snape or Dumbledore.

Isn't the killing curse supposed to be unstoppable?

It's stoppable with a well timed counter spell

Yet, no one can give me feats and names of what spells Gandalf can cast.

@MasterJohn: Gandalf can summon elemental forces such as fire and lightning. Also you haven't said how a guy who can beat a Balrog will lose to an emo teacher except for avada kadavra which as I say won't hurt an Istari imo, we have no way of knowing but we never see it cast on any being superior to humans a baby survived it cos his mum loved him I mean c'mon Gandalf has considerable durability he fell through a mountain and survived fighting for days afterwards! There are no creatures or villains as strong or evil as the ones that Gandalf can and has destroyed. Do you really think Snape could beat an ancient demon of Morgoth?

i say gandalf stomps but it is true he has few feats.

@Bane_of_sith said:

It's stoppable with a well timed counter spell

It's not. "It's not pleasent. It has no counter-curse." blah blah by moody.

Yet harry managed to avoid it by expelliarmus a lot of times. So yes.

Then again the spell can be stopped by letting it hit material objects..

So I see no reason how it could cause a problem to Gandalf's shield which stopped Balrog's blow.. Even if he did, if harry can dodge, so can Gandalf, assuming it'll actually hurt someone of his standing.

Gandalf.

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@Bane_of_sith said:

It's stoppable with a well timed counter spell

It's not. "It's not pleasent. It has no counter-curse." blah blah by moody.

Yet harry managed to avoid it by expelliarmus a lot of times. So yes.

Then again the spell can be stopped by letting it hit material objects..

So I see no reason how it could cause a problem to Gandalf's shield which stopped Balrog's blow.. Even if he did, if harry can dodge, so can Gandalf, assuming it'll actually hurt someone of his standing.

GANDALF HAS FEW FEATS.

Show me GANDALF's magical abilities. The only one I can think of is lightning, that's all. Nothing else. Gandalf has few feats.WHAT CAN GANDALF DO HERE?

@MasterJohn: You know, The one above all has even less feats than Gandalf. Feats aren't always the right way to measure a character.

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@MasterJohn: You know, The one above all has even less feats than Gandalf. Feats aren't always the right way to measure a character.

Here on the battles forum, we measure battles by FEATS.

What FEATS has gandalf displayed that he can DO?

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

Snape wins both round. Using book Gandalf isn't going to do any better. His magic was vague at best, and seem to be rather passive in nature. Snape in the book didn't need to mutter spells like in the movie. A simple thought would suffice in invoking the spell.

This.

@MasterJohn said:

@PrinceAragorn1 said:

@MasterJohn: You know, The one above all has even less feats than Gandalf. Feats aren't always the right way to measure a character.

Here on the battles forum, we measure battles by FEATS.

What FEATS has gandalf displayed that he can DO?

I am familiar with the battle threads, thank you.

But for the cases such as these, you cannot say someone is better just because he has higher feats. It can be true, but not always. It's retarded to assume it's true in every case. E.G. there are a huge number of celestials. Not all of them have shown feats. But we assume they're on a high level because of their standing. Just because spiderman lifted cars, and one of the un-named celestials didn't, are you Going to say spiderman>the celestial?

(I Hope you say no.)

@SSJLozza said:

@MasterJohn: Gandalf can summon elemental forces such as fire and lightning.

And fire can be easily deflected/reflected, and Snape would have a spell out before Gandalf can even raise his staff. You saw how quickly he killed Dumbledore.

Also you haven't said how a guy who can beat a Balrog will lose to an emo teacher except for avada kadavra

The balrog was FEATLESS. Completely featless. So in feats, anyone can stomp the Balrog, even Obi Wan Kenobi.

Snape is a master in the dark arts, other then a killing curse (which is faster then Gandalf) he could do this is in multiple other ways, killing curse is the most simpliest though.

which as I say won't hurt an Istari imo

You completely have no proof. The only time Gandalf used his shield was against a featless Balrog, and a featless Fire ball. Avada Kedvra is far from featless.

we have no way of knowing but we never see it cast on any being superior to humans a baby survived it cos his mum loved him I mean c'mon

that first part of your sentence just proves my argument. If we don't know it, or have no way of knowing it, and there's no feats in it, that's a automatic lose. A baby, to my knowledge, did not survive avada kedvra because it wasn't even cast onto a baby! Enlighten me.

m I mean c'mon Gandalf has considerable durability he fell through a mountain and survived fighting for days afterwards

In the book this NEVER happened.

Here's the entire battle of Gandalf vs the Balrog.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this. It doesn't matter what Gandalf did in the movies, because they don't exist in continuity.

"The Balrog reached the bridge. Gandalf stood in the middle of the span, leaning on the staff in his left hand, but in his other hand Glamdring gleamed, cold and white. His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings. It raised the whip, and the thongs whined and cracked. Fire came from its nostrils. But Gandalf stood firm. `You cannot pass,' he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. `I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.' The Balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen, glimmering in the gloom; he seemed small, and altogether alone: grey and bent, like a wizened tree before the onset of a storm. From out of the shadow a red sword leaped flaming. Glamdring glittered white in answer. There was a ringing clash and a stab of white fire. The Balrog fell back and its sword flew up in molten fragments. The wizard swayed on the bridge, stepped back a pace, and then again stood still. 'You cannot pass! ' he said. With a bound the Balrog leaped full upon the bridge. Its whip whirled and hissed. 'He cannot stand alone! ' cried Aragorn suddenly and ran back along the bridge. '_Elendil!_' he shouted. 'I am with you, Gandalf! ' `Gondor! ' cried Boromir and leaped after him. At that moment Gandalf lifted his staff, and crying aloud he smote the bridge before him. The staff broke asunder and fell from his hand. A blinding sheet of white flame sprang up. The bridge cracked. Right at the Balrog's feet it broke, and the stone upon which it stood crashed into the gulf, while the rest remained, poised, quivering like a tongue of rock thrust out into emptiness. With a terrible cry the Balrog fell forward, and its shadow plunged down and vanished. But even as it fell it swung its whip, and the thongs lashed and curled about the wizard's knees, dragging him to the brink. He staggered and fell, grasped vainly at the stone, and slid into the abyss. 'Fly, you fools! ' he cried, and was gone." - Lord of the Rings; Fellowship of the Ring

That is the entire fight with Gandalf and Durin's Bane. At no point is lightning mentioned. In fact the only time Gandalf ever talks about lightning or any kind of storm is in relation to his fight at the battle of the peak, and in his explaination of that battle he doesn't even describe the battle, he describes what a watching bard might write about it.

Plus, in the movie he did NOT fall through the mountain, he was on the Balrog battaling him, the BALROG fell.

There are no creatures or villains as strong or evil as the ones that Gandalf can and has destroyed

I can name plenty of characters in the Star wars, DC, and Marvel universes that Gandalf can't kill. Plus, he has only faced 1 true evil being, the Balrog(which is featless)

So back your arguments up with feats, or they will not count.

@PrinceAragorn1

I am familiar with the battle threads, thank you.

But for the cases such as these, you cannot say someone is better just because he has higher feats. It can be true, but not always. It's retarded to assume it's true in every case. E.G. there are a huge number of celestials. Not all of them have shown feats. But we assume they're on a high level because of their standing. Just because spiderman lifted cars, and one of the un-named celestials didn't, are you Going to say spiderman>the celestial?

(I Hope you say no.)

If Gandalf has displayed no feats of the thing you said he can do, then it's unfair to say he can do them. You are comparing apples to oranges. I will ask once again, what are the FEATS of Gandalf being able to contend with Snape?

Gandalf Spells and feats:

• Shield (strong enough to block the Balrog's attacks
• Summon Lightning (Into Sword as well as channel it to light things on fire: Goblins, Pine Cones, etc)
• Create Blinding Light
• Telekinesis
• Moving fast enough to block attacks from Legolas and Gimli's attacks
• Heat up Aragorn's sword
• Talk to animals
• Summon animals to his aid
• Counter spells (as he did in Rivendell in the meeting)
• Effect the world around him (in Bilbo's home)
• Fight with Staff and sword at one time
• Pursued Balrog for eight days straight, fought it for two days straight

@MasterJohn You might as well be having a samurai and a swashbuckler fight here. They are both Swordsmen and use swords but fight in entirely different ways.

If Link were in this battle and got hit with the killing curse, even with proper 75% less damage from magic attacks would he be less dead? Or would he actually survive like Harry did? How could we possibly tell?

If you HAVE to have it this way then here is my take. Here is how the fight could go.

Snape has a complement of spells, but there is no indication that they can get past Gandalf's shield spell.

Snape could tag him.

Just as likely Gandalf could blind Snape and then rush in and gut him.

@MasterJohn said:

@PrinceAragorn1

I am familiar with the battle threads, thank you.

But for the cases such as these, you cannot say someone is better just because he has higher feats. It can be true, but not always. It's retarded to assume it's true in every case. E.G. there are a huge number of celestials. Not all of them have shown feats. But we assume they're on a high level because of their standing. Just because spiderman lifted cars, and one of the un-named celestials didn't, are you Going to say spiderman>the celestial?

(I Hope you say no.)

If Gandalf has displayed no feats of the thing you said he can do, then it's unfair to say he can do them. You are comparing apples to oranges. I will ask once again, what are the FEATS of Gandalf being able to contend with Snape?

Which feats did I state exactly?

I'm not comparing apples to oranges or anything. I'm saying unless someone assumes spidey (not just him, hulk, wolverine etc) can beat a celestial because they have some feats, they cannot assume the likes of snape/voldemart beating Angelic beings such as Gandalf. What part of the comparison you found out of the place? If you're saying only feats define a character, you should say that these characters beat a featless celestial. Yes, or no?

@PrinceAragorn1

Which feats did I state exactly?

I'm not comparing apples to oranges or anything. I'm saying unless someone assumes spidey (not just him, hulk, wolverine etc) can beat a celestial because they have some feats, they cannot assume the likes of snape/voldemart beating Angelic beings such as Gandalf. What part of the comparison you found out of the place? If you're saying only feats define a character, you should say that these characters beat a featless celestial. Yes, or no?

Your comparing Gandalf to Spiderman, Hulk, wolverine, etc. Stop it. There is no sign that celestials in DC or Marvel are featless. Galactus is very featful, Silver Surfer is featful, etc. Even if the celestial has 1 feat, they are not featless. On the battle forums we do battles by feats and solely feats. You are going off topic on the celestial thing, because there are no featless celestials.

Plus, the whole thing on Gandalf coming back to life was a feat for ERU, ERU sent him back, Gandalf did NOT send himself back. So I do not consider Gandalf angelic.

Now give me feats on what Gandalf can do to Snape before snape can: Cast illusions upon him. Put a killing curse on him. Penetrate his mind and turn him into a sock puppet or kill him. Just GIVE ME THE FEATS AND I WILL COMPLY. Strawman arguments will not be accepted. Go back on the Celestial thing again, I'l cut you off.

Thank you very much.

@Quartermaim said:

Gandalf Spells and feats:

• Shield (strong enough to block the Balrog's attacks
• Summon Lightning (Into Sword as well as channel it to light things on fire: Goblins, Pine Cones, etc)
• Create Blinding Light
• Telekinesis
• Moving fast enough to block attacks from Legolas and Gimli's attacks
• Heat up Aragorn's sword
• Talk to animals
• Summon animals to his aid
• Counter spells (as he did in Rivendell in the meeting)
• Effect the world around him (in Bilbo's home)
• Fight with Staff and sword at one time
• Pursued Balrog for eight days straight, fought it for two days straight

@MasterJohn You might as well be having a samurai and a swashbuckler fight here. They are both Swordsmen and use swords but fight in entirely different ways.

If Link were in this battle and got hit with the killing curse, even with proper 75% less damage from magic attacks would he be less dead? Or would he actually survive like Harry did? How could we possibly tell?

If you HAVE to have it this way then here is my take. Here is how the fight could go.

Snape has a complement of spells, but there is no indication that they can get past Gandalf's shield spell.

Snape could tag him.

Just as likely Gandalf could blind Snape and then rush in and gut him.

Snape can know Gandalf's moves before Gandalf even does them. Plus not all of Snape's spells are visible. Snape can send a psychic spell at Gandalf and turn him into a sock puppet in seconds, unless he has strong telepathy (which I have not seen). Plus, Gandalf must raise his staff in order to do blinding light, Snape does not need to do that for a psychic/telepathic spell. There's no indication that Snape's psychic spells wouldn't get past Gandalf's shield. Show me a feat that their is and I will comply.

@MasterJohn said:

@PrinceAragorn1

Which feats did I state exactly?

I'm not comparing apples to oranges or anything. I'm saying unless someone assumes spidey (not just him, hulk, wolverine etc) can beat a celestial because they have some feats, they cannot assume the likes of snape/voldemart beating Angelic beings such as Gandalf. What part of the comparison you found out of the place? If you're saying only feats define a character, you should say that these characters beat a featless celestial. Yes, or no?

Your comparing Gandalf to Spiderman, Hulk, wolverine, etc. Stop it. There is no sign that celestials in DC or Marvel are featless. Galactus is very featful, Silver Surfer is featful, etc. Even if the celestial has 1 feat, they are not featless. On the battle forums we do battles by feats and solely feats. You are going off topic on the celestial thing, because there are no featless celestials.

Plus, the whole thing on Gandalf coming back to life was a feat for ERU, ERU sent him back, Gandalf did NOT send himself back. So I do not consider Gandalf angelic.

Now give me feats on what Gandalf can do to Snape before snape can: Cast illusions upon him. Put a killing curse on him. Penetrate his mind and turn him into a sock puppet or kill him. Just GIVE ME THE FEATS AND I WILL COMPLY. Strawman arguments will not be accepted. Go back on the Celestial thing again, I'l cut you off.

Thank you very much.

*Facepalm*

I'm not comparing Gandalf to anyone.

I'm trying to show you that feats are not the way for everything. So. Assume that there is a celestial, who has never before appeared in comic, but is surely a celestial, appears. I put him in a debate with spiderman. Whose side will you take? Just answer. I know it's a bit off-topic, but if you co-operate, I can show you what I'm trying to say.

Choose one. Spiderman vs this unknown celestial, let's call him x.

@PrinceAragorn1

*Facepalm*

I'm not comparing Gandalf to anyone.

I'm trying to show you that feats are not the way for everything. So. Assume that there is a celestial, who has never before appeared in comic, but is surely a celestial, appears. I put him in a debate with spiderman. Whose side will you take? Just answer. I know it's a bit off-topic, but if you co-operate, I can show you what I'm trying to say.

Choose one. Spiderman vs this unknown celestial, let's call him x.

Now your making assumptions, going hypothetical, and making more strawmans.

Now give me feats on what Gandalf can do to Snape before snape can: Cast illusions upon him. Put a killing curse on him. Penetrate his mind and turn him into a sock puppet or kill him. Just GIVE ME THE FEATS AND I WILL COMPLY. Strawman arguments will not be accepted. Go back on the Celestial thing again, I'l cut you off. The battle forums base their battles SOLEY OFF OF FEATS. This is a battle based on FEATS. Take it or leave it.

@MasterJohn said:

@PrinceAragorn1

*Facepalm*

I'm not comparing Gandalf to anyone.

I'm trying to show you that feats are not the way for everything. So. Assume that there is a celestial, who has never before appeared in comic, but is surely a celestial, appears. I put him in a debate with spiderman. Whose side will you take? Just answer. I know it's a bit off-topic, but if you co-operate, I can show you what I'm trying to say.

Choose one. Spiderman vs this unknown celestial, let's call him x.

Now your making assumptions, going hypothetical, and making more strawmans.

Now give me feats on what Gandalf can do to Snape before snape can: Cast illusions upon him. Put a killing curse on him. Penetrate his mind and turn him into a sock puppet or kill him. Just GIVE ME THE FEATS AND I WILL COMPLY. Strawman arguments will not be accepted. Go back on the Celestial thing again, I'l cut you off. The battle forums base their battles SOLEY OFF OF FEATS. This is a battle based on FEATS. Take it or leave it.

So you will pick spiderman with feats over an unknown featless celestial? Instead of being stubborn in old ways, try using logic for a change.

Anyway, if you need feats, Gandalf was a part of creation of the world, is stated to be immortal in his full form, considered wisest of Maiar, and objectively, deflected axe from Gimli and arrows from Legolas, whose reactions are said to be "faster than eye can see". He's blocked a blow from Balrog's sword, heated aragorn's sword out of his hands to name a few. Aside from that, he's a skilled fighter, with both sword and staff, shown minor forms of telepathy and has years of experience higher than whole Hogwarts combined. Severus is literally outclassed here, in every way imaginable.

Gandalf has the bigger stick :)

@PrinceAragorn1

Gandalf was a part of creation of the world, is stated to be immortal in his full form

Gandalf is not immortal, give me a in-book reference saying that. He is not immortal.

considered wisest of Maiar

..That's not a feat.

, deflected axe from Gimli and arrows from Legolas, whose reactions are said to be "faster than eye can see"

reference/scan/source please?

He's blocked a blow from Balrog's sword

The balrog is featless. We can't find out how strong the Balrog's sword is because it's FEATLESS.

heated aragorn's sword out of his hands to name a few

Ok, this is a feat.

Aside from that, he's a skilled fighter, with both sword and staff,

How does this stop Snape?

shown minor forms of telepathy and has years of experience higher than whole Hogwarts combined.

What forms of telepathy? Show me it.

Severus is literally outclassed here, in every way imaginable.

I disagree.

2:56, and goodbye Gandalf.

@ShootingNova You are knowledgeable about both universes. Who wins?

Depends on the starting range. If there's sufficient range for Gandalf to strike with Glamdring, there's a chance he could win. But this is Gray. Severus most likely wins, especially if the range is not enough for any sword-based assaults and only spell-casting. Yes, novels as well.

LOL.... why is there any mention of Gandalf being immortal in his Maia form/full form? That's totally irrelevant, because this is him as the Gray.

Furthermore, the TOAA having fewer feats than Gandalf..... seriously? That is the poorest excuse I've seen. TOAA is omnipotent, while Gandalf the Gray here would die from Spider-Man if the range was good enough. Movie version dies from Spider-Man, book version..... has a slightly superior chance, but still falls short of defeating Spider-Man within melee range. Comic Spiderman. But this is totally off-topic now, so don't bother responding to this.

A lot of stuff not relevant to Gandalf the Grey is being said here, too.

@ShootingNova Thank you for taking the time to come to this thread.

@MasterJohn: Technically Gandalf and the other Maiar are a spirit that's taken on a certain guise to present to lesser beings. Sauron did this as well before the fall of Numenor. Likewise the Balrogs are spirits that have taken on a guise of fire. The idea is that their spirits are immortal, regardless of what happens to their bodies, but depending on action their spirits may be denied access to the undying lands (as read when Wormtounge killed Saruman).

Who the wisest is depends on who you ask, since Saruman was for the longest time considered the wisest my most. Only Cirdan seems to have known better and gave Gandalf one of the three elven rings for that reason.

As for deflecting arrows and axes; look up the Two Towers movie when Aragon, Gimli and Legolas are reunited with him in Fangorn. In the book Gandalf just froze them initially before he turned his back on them before doing something similar (though he did set Aragorn sword alight).

Blocking the movie Balrog is still a feat considering how it nearly brought down the roof of the cave with the staircases, so it's sword is unlikely to be any weaker. As for the books, the Balrogs are considered one of the key reasons why Morgoth remained in power for so long since they were his most powerful servants (before he brought forth dragons) and needed to be countered with the greatest of the Elves to beat.

Thing to remember is that despite their power, the Five Wizards didn't come to Middle-Earth to solve it's problems for it, they came to nudge it's inhabitants in the right direction to do it themselves.

@Outside_85: Don't worry about the Two Towers and stuff, because this is Gandalf the Gray, not Gandalf the White.