Zoro vs Sasuke

Lol... It was just a counter argument for even considering Amaterasu... i still believe its a decent fight.

@ghostravage: i really hope kilemon(bad bad spelling) does teach him how to cut fire :) or to do the creating fire thing...

...but if he does, then sanji AND zoro will be avle to make fire w/out DF and ace's fruit will look like fodder.

@cooldes: @ghostravage: While we are putting our hopes out there, i hope Luffy says "Screw the rule" and eats aces Devil fruit anyways.

anywho, decent fight, but im giving it to zoro due to monster durability.

@funsiized: ehh....

I kinda want sanji to eat the mera mera... his hells memories and diable jambe would be uber amped and he'd have logia intang and he would FINALLY have a projectile attack. And him making fire out of thin air would finally make some friggin sense.

Edit: also, eating 2 devil fruit insta kills you. And we need luffy to be alive so he can be pirate king :D

@cooldes: He does have a Ranged attack, Spectre friole(?) if I'm not mistaken.

Eating two devil fruits killing you has not been confirmed, the only time we heard of this was from Jabura back at enies lobby, and his explanation seemed like an old sailors tale, rather than an actual explanation. Something along the lines of "The devils in the Fruits fight, and the result of the fight tears your body apart." Totally Ludicrous

also, i would hate for another straw hat to get a DF. Enforces the Sterotype and idea that you need one to succeed in the New World. I would much rather things stay as they are......well maybe Nami get a weather Fruit, but that's about it.

Zoro lolstomps. He would just blitz him.

Sasuke uses susanoo yo block any attack then amaterasus , GG

Proof of Zoro Speed being> Sasuke's ?

@nefarious: how? Sasuke had sound speed reactions pre shippuden.

Well from your arguement, you say Haku isspiritual energy, Chakra definition taken from Naruto is as follows

"Chakra (チャクラ, chakura) is essential to even the most basic technique; it is the moulding of the physical energy (身体エネルギー, shintai enerugī) present in every cell of the body and the spiritual energy (精神エネルギー, seishin enerugī) gained from exercise and experience."

It seems logical that Genutsu works. Whether you consider it to be the physical force present in your body AKA energy, which all of us have a certain enegy that allows us to move muscles, or spiritual energy, where both these people have. You are assuming it won't work, clarify why you think it won't.

@thatguywithheadphones:

yeah @light47 has LOTS of zoro speed scans and vids.

lol still having problems with the callout

Saskue ftw. While Zorro can cut through susanoo with precise cuts it will not be enough to take Saskue down. Saskue's black flames will burn through zorro's flesh, regular fire burns Zorro what makes you think black flames which has over come regular fire won't.

@cable_extreme: You just said the reason. Chakra is part physical. Haki is 100% immaterial making it a completely different. And as the other user I spoke with on this page said, Haki isn't even really energy, it's a sense which the makes the two absolutely unrelateable.

Zoro's speed feats can be seen in this battle http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/zoro-vs-killer-bee-1494358/

Not really, i'm just really lazy, and apparently that works too.

@light47

No, acording to Naruto wiki, Chakra is defned as all physcal energy inside the body, as well as spiritual. So by that definition, the energy his body uses is is susceptable to Genjustzu.

@cable_extreme: Your assuming that the people of One Piece have some other kind of chi or something. But the thing is, even if they do, the chakra network used in the Narutoverse is a whole other animal than what people are said to have normally. So even if genjutsu could work, the caster would probably have to learn how to manipulate it through the network all over again. But this is a fight so there no time for that.

If it works, it works. All they need is a physical energy driving the body, such as electrical signals traveling from the brain. Or some sort of spiritual energy. His opponent has both. You are assuming he would have to learn to manipulate it all over again.

Karin surviving amaterasu was mostly lolshonen. The same way the massive lightening attack of gedo mazo didn't kill any ninja. Or it maybe because of her weird chakra, which zoro doesn't have, nor does he have samurai armor.. Also, sasuke extinguished the flames for her. He isn't going to do that for zoro, unless I missed something. And sasuke was practically a n00b when he used it, he can control them better now..

And as for fire cutting, amaterasu isn't normal fire, it's a fire that eats fire.. I don't think either zoro or kilemon would cut something on that level, the best op world had was ace/explosions..

@cable_extreme: No, genjutsu manipulates charka through the chakra network, specifically the portion that spans over the brain. However, this chakra network is unique to the Narutoverse in many ways so you can hardly say that someone can just up and guide chakra through it since the layout isn't the same. When you look at the specifics behind how the technique is done the whole, "anybody can fall for genjutsu" assumption kinda falls apart.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Most One Piece vs Naruto fights end in "What is chakra anyway?" Debates, which is why the OP should say whether or not genjutsu is effective right away.

Well, your whole statement was in fact an assumption. Unless you provide an instance where Genjustu doesn't work as you say, it will be an assumption. The fact is, by the definition of Chakra in Naruto, it says energy that drives the body. It is an extremely broad interpretation for that reason.

There's too many variables; who strikes first, would sasuke go head on or keep his distance, can zoro keep up with sasukes tricks, amatseru would be fatal, etc. I'm leaning towards sasuke now but I got be convinced either way.

Fire is Fire... So what it its fire... Its still fire... That doesn't take out anything i've said, and Zoro's durability> any ninja... God... Zoro even took a damage bubble Kuma gave him... After that he was almost crippled, but that didn't stop him, he made his hardest training right after with Mihawk with hundreds and hundreds of swordmen monkeys who at the very least were almost his equals in that moment.

It's a decent fight, and i consider Amaterasu a non-factor...

@ghostravage: accidentally deleted the message :(

I know xD

@cable_extreme: The composition of chakra wasn't my main point. I said it the chakra network or the system that carries it throughout the body. The one in Naruto is really unique so the caster would have to learn how to guide the chakra through. Because remember, genjutsu isn't just magically mind controlling people. It's taking control of the targets chakra flow and reworking it through the section of the network that spans the brain. And like I said, its a different network so someone can't just up and control it without learning the layout first.

So what is the proof or evidence for that assumption?

Zoro would have to break through Susano'o (while being attacked by it) to be able to get to Sasuke. Once Amaterasu kicks in it's game over (and seeing how sasuke has, and will, surround himself in amaterasu as a defense mech it's gonna be even harder to touch him). Genjutsu/ninjutsu rape from afar should take care of zoro (LOL to the guy who said genjutsu only works on chakra; bad argument). And if that's not enough then Zoro would have to dodge Kirin...good luck.

I'll give this one to sasuke, not in a stomp tho.

@cable_extreme: lol, my proof is that this is what they said in the series and what has been shown countless times. These are not assumptions. These are FACTS. Look it up on the wiki if you want. The only assumption is that genjutsu works on people without Narutoverse chakra networks

Provide an example from the series, youtube clip, or something then. And it is not an assumption that Genjutsu would work on people outside the Narutoverse. Reason being is how broad chakra in that universe is defined. I told you why, I also provided a source that agreed with my claim.

@cable_extreme: Even if Chakra and Haki were the same, what's to say Haki can't block Chakra attacks?

I never said haki couldn't

@cable_extreme:

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra_Pathway_System

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Genjutsu

So now that you can see the actual definitions of Chakra Network and Genjutsu, this should make more sense.

The Narutoverse chakra network is a real, physical system that goes through a ninja's body. No such thing has ever been physically found in real life or the One Pieceverse. So aside from the fact that this one functions almost completely different from what ours is said to, it is 100% actually there and not just represented in spirit meaning that it is a dangerous assumption that Genjutsu will work exactly the same on it when it's unclear if it can even be accessed like this.

Thanks for the links, I read both of them, and you are correct.

@cable_extreme: No problem and nice debating with you :)

Sasuke wins without genjutsu

zoro and Sasuke are around the same speed, susanoo blocks most of Zoro's attacks, Sasuke's fire justsu will atleast distract zoro. His lightning enhanced shurikens (like when he and itachi fought) wont be dodged easily and will cut zoro on most parts of his body and go straight through (lightbing enhanced), he can get on his hawk, and spam attacks at Zoro or shoot at the air and do Kirin (which zoro cant dodge) , Susanoo arrows will not be dodged either, not even kakashi could react to them, or danzo, a guy with like 8 sharingans active while being shot at. Amaterasu at his eyes which he wont expect or at anywhere on his body, undodgeable chidori senbon spams. Giant summons etc. All in all, a good fight, but sasuke will win, he even has a bijuu sized susanoo with legs now and can coat his weapons in amaterasu and make a dome of amaterasu around zoro.

I believe that Zoro can out speed, Sasuke. This can go either way, but one thing for sure is, that if Sasuke tries to use his sword to fight Zoro he will get instantly cut as he is unware of Zoros abilities to cut thick steel and more.

Here is a video of his speed. You can see how fast they slice and how powerful those slices are from both. Pre time skip. I also don't think Sasuke has the strength to hold him back unless he uses Susano. One other thing Ryuuma attacks first and Zoro retaliates before Ryuuma hits him, just shows how fast he can be.

Nice!

But it doesnt solve any other things sasuke can do that i listed

I think that genjutsu would affect zoro because genjutsu affects the life force in the person. No matter what anime or show you are in, you always have life force. But i think zoro would WIN because zoro can close his eyes and attack sasuke with observation haki, and then sasuke cant use genjutsu on zoro unless he learns the forbidden jutsu izanami and loses his vision. And im also pretty sure that zoro can dodge amaterasu with his haki. and if zoro really tried, he could cut susano. SO IM BETTING ON ZORO!

@zorotheswordsman: nah son, you need chakra to be affected

stated by jiraiya and kakashi

actually, this is how it works
true that chakra= physical+spiritual energy

ki=spiritual+physical energy

reishi=spiritual energy

haki=spiritual energy

so, it can be assumed or concluded that genjutsu will work in one piece, BUT, just not completely itll work kind of half, like when itachi put orochimaru in a genjutsu

orochimaru could still see itachi enough to talk to/about him, but he was obviously under a genjustu

so it would just work like that in one piece and bleach

BUT, THE ARGUMENT OF GENJUSTU IS POINTLESS ANYWAY BECAUSE ZORO'S HAKI OF PERCEPTION/PREMONITION IS DESIGNED TO SEE/SENSE WHERE AN ENEMY IS AND WHAT THEY WILL DO NEXT, BUILT TO FIGHT ENEMIES YOU CANT SEE

and zoro's arament hakiwill prevent him from being burned

comparison stats go as folows:

strength

zoro>sasuke

speed

zoro<=sasuke

stamina

zoro>sasuke

durability

zoro>sasuke

technique

zoro<=sasuke

evasiveness

zoro<sasuke

chakra/haki

zoro<=sasuke

experience

zoro>sasuke

if you have a different opinion on the stats comparison post your own

but in a fight, i'd give this one to zoro, but very close

@strongarm

Chakra IS life force. ki, chi and haki are all different names for it. You ALWAYS HAVE life force unless ur dead.

@leelee

I agree with you

@zorotheswordsman: Every work of fiction has a different system, it is not all the same.

... Haki is a sense, like sight, smell, or touch. Chakra is not. Chakra is a balance physical energy mixed with spiritual energy, and sometimes some nature energy thrown it. Its the difference between light and sight, energy vs senses.

Now than, while he might have a life force, he isn't capable of mixing it with physical energy, and thus doesn't have Chakra. However, even if he did, Genjutsu also relies on the Chakra coils that run through the brain, which is an anatomical feature that is only found in the Naruto universe. Being completely fair, Sasuke wouldn't be able to use Genjutsu, and Zoro would have full access to Haki's capabilities.

However, considering this is a neutral universe, where all characters can use their powers, none of that matters. Genjutsu can be used. So, this is a classic power vs versatility battle. Despite what people think though, Amaterasu and Susanoo don't guarantee any sort of success. They might be useful tools, but Susanoo has been broken, and Amaterasu has been endured, and Zoro has a knack for breaking and enduring. Zoro has shown strength beyond more or less any Naruto character, and can almost certainly power through him like the Raikage did. Genjutsu is going to be rendered useless. Genjutsu is easily overcome by senses not usually used, such as Byakugan or the senses of insects, and Haki would undoubtedly fall into this category. Also, large sensory overloads such as chile smell or pain has been known to break people free from genjutsu, and going by the fact that Sasuke is one bloodlusted mofo which Zoro can see through his senses, he would most likely break free of it immediately.

Zoro wins this 8/10