Zoom vs Silver Surfer and Superman Prime

@CitizenBane said:

Fail.

BB

@Jeronimo said:

Even if Zoom lands a punch on SS, Zoom dies because SS would then immediatly enact a very powerfull area of effect blast that travels at the speed of light outward from SS's body. At which point Zoom would be punching into an energy he has absolutely no control over. That means Zoom has a fraction of a fraction of a second to land as many blows as he could which, by the way, would not kill SS. Then Zoom and the rest of the planet dies. The end.

Wow, that actually seems like something Surfer would use.

@HolySerpent said:

What do mean so what?you brought the flashes. All I'm looking for evidence from you to say zoom can ko someone on prime level. When universal explosion that wipe all life out couldnt do it

This is ridiculous if you honestly think Prime's one big durability feat overrules all the others that say things much, much less damaging than universal destruction can hurt him. Ask Krypto's teeth and Martian Manhunter's fist.

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

Surfer doesn;t even need to "tag" zoom to hurt him.

Then what do you suggest he does? Insult Zoom's mother? Sure.

• Disintegrate him
• use molecule control
• transport him to another universe
• bfr

The list goes on.

Are you serious? How many times does this need to be said?

Every. Single. Thing. Surfer. Can. Do. Requires. Him. To. First. Either. Think. Or. React. Neither. Of. Which. He. Can. Do. Before. Zoom. Strikes.

BUT HOW CAN HE HURT HIM IF HE CAN'T TAG HIM!!!!

.......again, are you serious? Surfer moving out of range is losing.

If surfer sees he's obviously loosing, then i believe he will attack from the air.

If he sees that he's losing, that implies he's already engaged Zoom, and you have presented nothing to indicate he could somehow get away from Zolomon hitting him, since he doesn't react on a level that's good enough for that.

@Petey_is_Spidey:

I created it beacause my bro says zoom could take surfer and prime.

Your bro was right.

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@Jeronimo said:

Even if Zoom lands a punch on SS, Zoom dies because SS would then immediatly enact a very powerfull area of effect blast that travels at the speed of light outward from SS's body. At which point Zoom would be punching into an energy he has absolutely no control over. That means Zoom has a fraction of a fraction of a second to land as many blows as he could which, by the way, would not kill SS. Then Zoom and the rest of the planet dies. The end.

Wow, that actually seems like something Surfer would use.

It's been pointed out several times that Surfer cannot react fast enough to do anything of the sort. So are you arguing that Surfer should win because of things Surfer has actually done that indicate he could react to win, or are you arguing that Surfer should win because you think he should win and nothing more?

@CitizenBane said:

@HolySerpent said:

What do mean so what?you brought the flashes. All I'm looking for evidence from you to say zoom can ko someone on prime level. When universal explosion that wipe all life out couldnt do it

This is ridiculous if you honestly think Prime's one big durability feat overrules all the others that say things much, much less damaging than universal destruction can hurt him. Ask Krypto's teeth and Martian Manhunter's fist.

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

Surfer doesn;t even need to "tag" zoom to hurt him.

Then what do you suggest he does? Insult Zoom's mother? Sure.

• Disintegrate him
• use molecule control
• transport him to another universe
• bfr

The list goes on.

Are you serious? How many times does this need to be said?

Every. Single. Thing. Surfer. Can. Do. Requires. Him. To. First. Either. Think. Or. React. Neither. Of. Which. He. Can. Do. Before. Zoom. Strikes.

BUT HOW CAN HE HURT HIM IF HE CAN'T TAG HIM!!!!

.......again, are you serious? Surfer moving out of range is losing.

If surfer sees he's obviously loosing, then i believe he will attack from the air.

If he sees that he's losing, that implies he's already engaged Zoom, and you have presented nothing to indicate he could somehow get away from Zolomon hitting him, since he doesn't react on a level that's good enough for that.

Or, since zoom has already engaged in physical contact, he can then just phase through all his hits, since he then realizes he's faster.

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@HolySerpent said:

What do mean so what?you brought the flashes. All I'm looking for evidence from you to say zoom can ko someone on prime level. When universal explosion that wipe all life out couldnt do it

This is ridiculous if you honestly think Prime's one big durability feat overrules all the others that say things much, much less damaging than universal destruction can hurt him. Ask Krypto's teeth and Martian Manhunter's fist.

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

Surfer doesn;t even need to "tag" zoom to hurt him.

Then what do you suggest he does? Insult Zoom's mother? Sure.

• Disintegrate him
• use molecule control
• transport him to another universe
• bfr

The list goes on.

Are you serious? How many times does this need to be said?

Every. Single. Thing. Surfer. Can. Do. Requires. Him. To. First. Either. Think. Or. React. Neither. Of. Which. He. Can. Do. Before. Zoom. Strikes.

BUT HOW CAN HE HURT HIM IF HE CAN'T TAG HIM!!!!

.......again, are you serious? Surfer moving out of range is losing.

If surfer sees he's obviously loosing, then i believe he will attack from the air.

If he sees that he's losing, that implies he's already engaged Zoom, and you have presented nothing to indicate he could somehow get away from Zolomon hitting him, since he doesn't react on a level that's good enough for that.

Or, since zoom has already engaged in physical contact, he can then just phase through all his hits, since he then realizes he's faster.

I swear, it's like talking to a brick wall.......if you think he can phase through his hits, that implies he can react to the blitz. He cannot. That is the whole point.

And this is essentially the Zoom vs Silver Surfer thread all over again. Let's just hope this thread does not last for over a hundred pages, as that one did.

Citizenbane: I don't why you brought up krypto hurting him. When that when he was Superboy prime at that time and even then that dog didn't do much.

@HolySerpent said:

Citizenbane: I don't why you brought up krypto hurting him. When that when he was Superboy prime at that time and even then that dog didn't do much.

Still did more than the universe blowing up. Plenty of things have hurt Superman Prime as well, all of which weren't as destructive as the universe blowing up.

@CitizenBane: Zoom cannot physically destroy SS's body. He dies of old age trying.

Plus, Zoom dies of his own powers. He can effect time around him but his body is somehow separated from this effect. That means his body ages at a normal at a normal rate in its time pocket. So what to us might seem a minute could be years to Zoom. So the more Zoom uses his powers, the more he ages relative to those around him. In the end, Zoom's own powers help with Zoom's demise.

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@HolySerpent said:

What do mean so what?you brought the flashes. All I'm looking for evidence from you to say zoom can ko someone on prime level. When universal explosion that wipe all life out couldnt do it

This is ridiculous if you honestly think Prime's one big durability feat overrules all the others that say things much, much less damaging than universal destruction can hurt him. Ask Krypto's teeth and Martian Manhunter's fist.

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

Surfer doesn;t even need to "tag" zoom to hurt him.

Then what do you suggest he does? Insult Zoom's mother? Sure.

• Disintegrate him
• use molecule control
• transport him to another universe
• bfr

The list goes on.

Are you serious? How many times does this need to be said?

Every. Single. Thing. Surfer. Can. Do. Requires. Him. To. First. Either. Think. Or. React. Neither. Of. Which. He. Can. Do. Before. Zoom. Strikes.

BUT HOW CAN HE HURT HIM IF HE CAN'T TAG HIM!!!!

.......again, are you serious? Surfer moving out of range is losing.

If surfer sees he's obviously loosing, then i believe he will attack from the air.

If he sees that he's losing, that implies he's already engaged Zoom, and you have presented nothing to indicate he could somehow get away from Zolomon hitting him, since he doesn't react on a level that's good enough for that.

Or, since zoom has already engaged in physical contact, he can then just phase through all his hits, since he then realizes he's faster.

I swear, it's like talking to a brick wall.......if you think he can phase through his hits, that implies he can react to the blitz. He cannot. That is the whole point.

Ok, when you're getting hit by someone much faster than you, your brain is telling you to "GET OUT OF THERE. GET OUT OF THERE." So eveen though he is getting blitz, his brain is still in function to make any decision, but not his physical body.

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Surfer, I could say he solos.

lol, no.
BB

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Surfer, I could say he solos.

lol, no.
BB

lol, yes. DC

Nope.
BB

@Jeronimo said:

@CitizenBane: Zoom cannot physically destroy SS's body. He dies of old age trying.

Plus, Zoom dies of his own powers. He can effect time around him but his body is somehow separated from this effect. That means his body ages at a normal at a normal rate in its time pocket. So what to us might seem a minute could be years to Zoom. So the more Zoom uses his powers, the more he ages relative to those around him. In the end, Zoom's own powers help with Zoom's demise.

Props on your facts.

There's no showings that Zoom would age fast even if he should.
BB

Nice to see people are back to applying their own unsubstantiated, conjectural extrapolations to Zoom's powers instead of simply interpreting them as is shown in the comics. Of course, that would require that people have actually read the comics to know what his powers are, and therein lies the problem.

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@HolySerpent said:

What do mean so what?you brought the flashes. All I'm looking for evidence from you to say zoom can ko someone on prime level. When universal explosion that wipe all life out couldnt do it

This is ridiculous if you honestly think Prime's one big durability feat overrules all the others that say things much, much less damaging than universal destruction can hurt him. Ask Krypto's teeth and Martian Manhunter's fist.

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

Surfer doesn;t even need to "tag" zoom to hurt him.

Then what do you suggest he does? Insult Zoom's mother? Sure.

• Disintegrate him
• use molecule control
• transport him to another universe
• bfr

The list goes on.

Are you serious? How many times does this need to be said?

Every. Single. Thing. Surfer. Can. Do. Requires. Him. To. First. Either. Think. Or. React. Neither. Of. Which. He. Can. Do. Before. Zoom. Strikes.

BUT HOW CAN HE HURT HIM IF HE CAN'T TAG HIM!!!!

.......again, are you serious? Surfer moving out of range is losing.

If surfer sees he's obviously loosing, then i believe he will attack from the air.

If he sees that he's losing, that implies he's already engaged Zoom, and you have presented nothing to indicate he could somehow get away from Zolomon hitting him, since he doesn't react on a level that's good enough for that.

Or, since zoom has already engaged in physical contact, he can then just phase through all his hits, since he then realizes he's faster.

I swear, it's like talking to a brick wall.......if you think he can phase through his hits, that implies he can react to the blitz. He cannot. That is the whole point.

Ok, when you're getting hit by someone much faster than you, your brain is telling you to "GET OUT OF THERE. GET OUT OF THERE." So eveen though he is getting blitz, his brain is still in function to make any decision, but not his physical body.

Ehrm, no. Your brain is supposed to react as fast as you can perceive things, and Surfer has never reacted that fast. It's the same thing, over and over again.

@Jeronimo said:

@CitizenBane: Zoom cannot physically destroy SS's body. He dies of old age trying.

Plus, Zoom dies of his own powers. He can effect time around him but his body is somehow separated from this effect. That means his body ages at a normal at a normal rate in its time pocket. So what to us might seem a minute could be years to Zoom. So the more Zoom uses his powers, the more he ages relative to those around him. In the end, Zoom's own powers help with Zoom's demise.

Zoom's powers do not work like that. All time manipulators are not the same. Velocidad's powers are the only ones that work like that. Zoom's powers do not. Inertia's did not for the time that he had them. Kiden Nixon's did not. Zoom does not need to destroy SS's body. Thanos killed him without needing to do so.

Tell me what has hurt superman prime when he only fought 4 characters. Mxy , monarch, a monitor , and forerunner

@Silver2467 said:

Nice to see people are back to applying their own unsubstantiated, conjectural extrapolations to Zoom's powers instead of simply interpreting them as is shown in the comics. Of course, that would require that people have actually read the comics to know what his powers are, and therein lies the problem.

True dat.

@HolySerpent said:

Tell me what has hurt superman prime when he only fought 4 characters. Mxy , monarch, a monitor , and forerunner

Ion's attacks hurt him. Bart Allen's attacks hurt him. Monarch's attacks hurt him (the ones before the universe blew up).

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@Jeronimo said:

@CitizenBane: Zoom cannot physically destroy SS's body. He dies of old age trying.

Plus, Zoom dies of his own powers. He can effect time around him but his body is somehow separated from this effect. That means his body ages at a normal at a normal rate in its time pocket. So what to us might seem a minute could be years to Zoom. So the more Zoom uses his powers, the more he ages relative to those around him. In the end, Zoom's own powers help with Zoom's demise.

Props on your facts.

They aren't even close to being facts.

@HolySerpent said:

Tell me what has hurt superman prime when he only fought 4 characters. Mxy , monarch, a monitor , and forerunner

Ion, Hal Jordan,Bart Allen,Martian Manhunter, Superman,Monarch and Powergirl. He is overrated people put him on Odin level and we know that is a bunch of crap.

Sodam Yat and Bart or any flash fought him when he was Superboy prime. Superman prime was after he absorbed a guardians energy. Zoom can't beat monarch with killing himself in the process

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

Surfer, I could say he solos.

lol, no.
BB

lol, yes. DC

Nope.
BB

Zoom FTW

@Dark Cloud™:

Great argument. Exactly how is Surfer going to "solo"?
BB

@Dark Cloud™:

Great argument. Exactly how is Surfer going to "solo"?
BB

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Dark Cloud™:

Great argument. Exactly how is Surfer going to "solo"?
BB

Same to you. Morals off, Surfer is a very dangerous being. When he realizes he's losing, that's to say Zoom gets a few shots in, Surfer simply uses the Power Cosmic to boost himself beyond anything Zoom can handle. =)

Using the Power Cosmic......implies he can react before Zoom KTFO's him. He cannot.

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Dark Cloud™:

Great argument. Exactly how is Surfer going to "solo"?
BB

Same to you. Morals off, Surfer is a very dangerous being. When he realizes he's losing, that's to say Zoom gets a few shots in, Surfer simply uses the Power Cosmic to boost himself beyond anything Zoom can handle. =)

Using the Power Cosmic......implies he can react before Zoom KTFO's him. He cannot.

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Dark Cloud™:

Great argument. Exactly how is Surfer going to "solo"?
BB

Same to you. Morals off, Surfer is a very dangerous being. When he realizes he's losing, that's to say Zoom gets a few shots in, Surfer simply uses the Power Cosmic to boost himself beyond anything Zoom can handle. =)

Using the Power Cosmic......implies he can react before Zoom KTFO's him. He cannot.

Which implies Zoom can knock Surfer the f*** out. He cannot.

Yeah, he can. He can beat the crap out of Superman and Wonder Woman with morals on, there is no reason he wouldn't destroy Surfer with morals off, given that he'd be moving even faster and striking even harder. Zoom does a Thanos and kills Norrin.

Yay, a quote pyramid.
BB

@CitizenBane said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Dark Cloud™:

Great argument. Exactly how is Surfer going to "solo"?
BB

Same to you. Morals off, Surfer is a very dangerous being. When he realizes he's losing, that's to say Zoom gets a few shots in, Surfer simply uses the Power Cosmic to boost himself beyond anything Zoom can handle. =)

Using the Power Cosmic......implies he can react before Zoom KTFO's him. He cannot.

Which implies Zoom can knock Surfer the f*** out. He cannot.

Yeah, he can. He can beat the crap out of Superman and Wonder Woman with morals on, there is no reason he wouldn't destroy Surfer with morals off, given that he'd be moving even faster and striking even harder. Zoom does a Thanos and kills Norrin.

@Billy Batson said:

Yay, a quote pyramid.
BB

pretty isn't it lol

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Dark Cloud™:

Great argument. Exactly how is Surfer going to "solo"?
BB

Same to you. Morals off, Surfer is a very dangerous being. When he realizes he's losing, that's to say Zoom gets a few shots in, Surfer simply uses the Power Cosmic to boost himself beyond anything Zoom can handle. =)

Using the Power Cosmic......implies he can react before Zoom KTFO's him. He cannot.

Which implies Zoom can knock Surfer the f*** out. He cannot.

Yeah, he can. He can beat the crap out of Superman and Wonder Woman with morals on, there is no reason he wouldn't destroy Surfer with morals off, given that he'd be moving even faster and striking even harder. Zoom does a Thanos and kills Norrin.

Beating the Crap out of Supes,WW and Bats holding back imagine bloodlusted oh that would be nothing nice.

Off- topic Sinestro corps Wars was great.

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Dark Cloud™:

Great argument. Exactly how is Surfer going to "solo"?
BB

Same to you. Morals off, Surfer is a very dangerous being. When he realizes he's losing, that's to say Zoom gets a few shots in, Surfer simply uses the Power Cosmic to boost himself beyond anything Zoom can handle. =)

Using the Power Cosmic......implies he can react before Zoom KTFO's him. He cannot.

Which implies Zoom can knock Surfer the f*** out. He cannot.

Yeah, he can. He can beat the crap out of Superman and Wonder Woman with morals on, there is no reason he wouldn't destroy Surfer with morals off, given that he'd be moving even faster and striking even harder. Zoom does a Thanos and kills Norrin.

As a hypothetical battle, this is based on opinion. If Zoom is so powerful that he can land shots on Surfer BEFORE Surfer reacts (implying that Zoom is faster), there's nothing proving Surfer couldn't instantly dematerialize Zoom BEFORE Zoom attacks (implying that Surfer is faster). Beating the crap out of Superman and Wonder Woman isn't an uncommon feat, Surfer would do the same. Thanos beat Surfer, cool. Surfer has beat Thanos. Surfer has beat the Champion of the Universe.

To be fair - Deadpool has beaten the Champion of the Universe ...

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@Billy Batson said:

@Dark Cloud™:

Great argument. Exactly how is Surfer going to "solo"?
BB

Same to you. Morals off, Surfer is a very dangerous being. When he realizes he's losing, that's to say Zoom gets a few shots in, Surfer simply uses the Power Cosmic to boost himself beyond anything Zoom can handle. =)

Using the Power Cosmic......implies he can react before Zoom KTFO's him. He cannot.

Which implies Zoom can knock Surfer the f*** out. He cannot.

Yeah, he can. He can beat the crap out of Superman and Wonder Woman with morals on, there is no reason he wouldn't destroy Surfer with morals off, given that he'd be moving even faster and striking even harder. Zoom does a Thanos and kills Norrin.

As a hypothetical battle, this is based on opinion. If Zoom is so powerful that he can land shots on Surfer BEFORE Surfer reacts (implying that Zoom is faster), there's nothing proving Surfer couldn't instantly dematerialize Zoom BEFORE Zoom attacks (implying that Surfer is faster). Beating the crap out of Superman and Wonder Woman isn't an uncommon feat, Surfer would do the same. Thanos beat Surfer, cool. Surfer has beat Thanos. Surfer has beat the Champion of the Universe.

What? Surfer cannot dematerialize Zoom because he'd have to react faster than Zoom could hit him. He cannot. That much is indisputable. Moving faster than a highly amped Flash doing his best could is far from common. It never happens. Surfer beat Champion? Cool. So did She-Hulk.

What? Surfer cannot dematerialize Zoom because he'd have to react faster than Zoom could hit him. He cannot. That much is indisputable. Moving faster than a highly amped Flash doing his best could is far from common. It never happens. Surfer beat Champion? Cool. So did She-Hulk.

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

What? Surfer cannot dematerialize Zoom because he'd have to react faster than Zoom could hit him. He cannot. That much is indisputable. Moving faster than a highly amped Flash doing his best could is far from common. It never happens. Surfer beat Champion? Cool. So did She-Hulk.

Sure he can. Considering morals are off, Surfer may have gone into the battle with his Cosmic Awareness working into overdrive. That right there gives him the ability to perceive whatever energy Zoom is using to manipulate time around himself (which I assume is temporal). Thus, Surfer could easily warp that energy (using another form of energy) or cut Zoom off from the source. Would Zoom know Surfer was doing that? How would Zoom react to that?

Going into the battle with something already turned on implies he had time to do so (however inconsequential the time period may be) before the battle started. That constitutes prep, and there is no mention of that in this situation. The rest of your post is just assumptions drawn from a faulty foundation, so I doubt it needs to be addressed. Zoom doesn't need to react to anything.

Going into the battle with something already turned on implies he had time to do so (however inconsequential the time period may be) before the battle started. That constitutes prep, and there is no mention of that in this situation. The rest of your post is just assumptions drawn from a faulty foundation, so I doubt it needs to be addressed. Zoom doesn't need to react to anything.

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

Going into the battle with something already turned on implies he had time to do so (however inconsequential the time period may be) before the battle started. That constitutes prep, and there is no mention of that in this situation. The rest of your post is just assumptions drawn from a faulty foundation, so I doubt it needs to be addressed. Zoom doesn't need to react to anything.

Doubting that it needs to be addressed is doubting one's own ability to answer them. And... wow, that last sentence has be laughing.

I don't need to answer them because they assume Surfer has prep time. He does not, and thus they're utterly irrelevant to the discussion. If Surfer cannot employ your strategy, there is nothing for Zoom to react to. Laugh away if it helps.

Silver Surfer vs Zoom: round 2
BB

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

Going into the battle with something already turned on implies he had time to do so (however inconsequential the time period may be) before the battle started. That constitutes prep, and there is no mention of that in this situation. The rest of your post is just assumptions drawn from a faulty foundation, so I doubt it needs to be addressed. Zoom doesn't need to react to anything.

Doubting that it needs to be addressed is doubting one's own ability to answer them. And... wow, that last sentence has be laughing.

I don't need to answer them because they assume Surfer has prep time. He does not, and thus they're utterly irrelevant to the discussion. If Surfer cannot employ your strategy, there is nothing for Zoom to react to. Laugh away if it helps.

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

Going into the battle with something already turned on implies he had time to do so (however inconsequential the time period may be) before the battle started. That constitutes prep, and there is no mention of that in this situation. The rest of your post is just assumptions drawn from a faulty foundation, so I doubt it needs to be addressed. Zoom doesn't need to react to anything.

Doubting that it needs to be addressed is doubting one's own ability to answer them. And... wow, that last sentence has be laughing.

I don't need to answer them because they assume Surfer has prep time. He does not, and thus they're utterly irrelevant to the discussion. If Surfer cannot employ your strategy, there is nothing for Zoom to react to. Laugh away if it helps.

You should answer them, because I asked them as a hypothetical situation. Not answering them is showing me that you can't answer them, which is understandable, either way. Also, having something already turned on in battle before entering battle doesn't prove a character has prep time, but I get that context. Because if that were true, and by you claiming Zoom has nothing to react to, you're implying that Zoom is either manipulating his time to be faster, or manipulating his time to be slower, which is the same as entering the battle with an ability turned on (therefore, implying he has prep time -- in your own words). I'll continue to laugh.

A hypothetical situation that is impossible under the current set of rules. Whether I can answer them or not is utterly irrelevant. What's more relevant is whether you can conceive of a situation where Surfer wins that's not disqualified due to the constraints of the match. Evidently, you can't. Surfer's cosmic awareness is not on by default, at least not at the levels to pull off what you're describing. Zoom's time manipulation is always on, by default. They're not the same thing. Continue laughing, it's about the only thing you're doing right at the moment.

A hypothetical situation that is impossible under the current set of rules. Whether I can answer them or not is utterly irrelevant. What's more relevant is whether you can conceive of a situation where Surfer wins that's not disqualified due to the constraints of the match. Evidently, you can't. Surfer's cosmic awareness is not on by default, at least not at the levels to pull off what you're describing. Zoom's time manipulation is always on, by default. They're not the same thing. Continue laughing, it's about the only thing you're doing right at the moment.

@CitizenBane said:

@HolySerpent said:

Tell me what has hurt superman prime when he only fought 4 characters. Mxy , monarch, a monitor , and forerunner

Ion's attacks hurt him. Bart Allen's attacks hurt him. Monarch's attacks hurt him (the ones before the universe blew up).

@Petey_is_Spidey said:

@Jeronimo said:

@CitizenBane: Zoom cannot physically destroy SS's body. He dies of old age trying.

Plus, Zoom dies of his own powers. He can effect time around him but his body is somehow separated from this effect. That means his body ages at a normal at a normal rate in its time pocket. So what to us might seem a minute could be years to Zoom. So the more Zoom uses his powers, the more he ages relative to those around him. In the end, Zoom's own powers help with Zoom's demise.

Props on your facts.

They aren't even close to being facts.

Sarcasm

@Dark Cloud™ said:

@CitizenBane said:

A hypothetical situation that is impossible under the current set of rules. Whether I can answer them or not is utterly irrelevant. What's more relevant is whether you can conceive of a situation where Surfer wins that's not disqualified due to the constraints of the match. Evidently, you can't. Surfer's cosmic awareness is not on by default, at least not at the levels to pull off what you're describing. Zoom's time manipulation is always on, by default. They're not the same thing. Continue laughing, it's about the only thing you're doing right at the moment.

The hypothetical situation isn't impossible, as this is a hypothetical battle. The set of rules state morals are off, and my hypothetical situations refers to morals being off, whether Zoom can do certain things when approached from Surfer's point of view. Your refusal to answer my questions because you believe them to be irrelevant, is irrelevant in itself, as I am trying to see where you stand (instead of the stereotypical fanboyish responses that "Zoom is so powerful he can do anything," and, "Zoom doesn't need to react to anything.") So, please do me the favor in answering my questions. And here are a few more. With Zoom's powers always activated, how fast (an actual number, not a guess or estimation) is he calculated at at normal rate? How fast can he manipulate himself to be as well as how slow can he manipulate himself to be? Actually, I'm doing quite a lot of things right; I am breathing right, I am sitting up right, I am reading the time on my clock right...

Oh, sure. Since this is a hypothetical battle, I can also assume that Surfer enters while blustering about being endowed by the Power Cosmic, like he inevitably does, and then gets overrun by Zolomon since he couldn't possibly imagine anyone would even contemplate going up against it. You still haven't answered or refuted my point, presumably because you can't, Surfer does not possess (by default, at least) a level of cosmic awareness necessary to pull off anything along the lines of what you described. To increase them to the levels where he could do so would require at least a certain amount of time, something he isn't going to find in a fight against a bloodlusted Zoom, for obvious reasons. Which leaves only one avenue: he does it before entering the match. Where I come from, we call that prep. Your hypothetical scenario refers to morals being off, sure, and that is the only way it conforms to the OP. There is no prep. Your hypothetical scenario is contingent on Surfer having prep time, no matter how inconsequential that period of time may be. Since there is no prep time here, your scenario is faulty from the start and then all the way through. It cannot happen. For those reasons. Thus there is no way it can even be considered viable, and thus it is irrelevant to this discussion. Why should I answer questions related to an impossible scenario? Your insistence that I answer questions related to an irrelevant scenario tells me that you have nothing else to say, and that you cannot think of a scenario where Surfer wins that doesn't fall under the constraints of the OP. I find it more than a little hilarious that you think I'm claiming "Zoom can do anything" and being fanboyish about it, when your entire argument winds down to "Surfer uses the Power Cosmic to make himself faster than Zoom", "Zoom gets dematerialized before he can react", "Zoom gets his power source removed" and similar arguments along the theme of "Surfer uses the Power Cosmic and wins". That's all your argument is. Surfer wins because he has the Power Cosmic. And since he has the Power Cosmic, he can do anything, right?. I also find it strange that you want to know how fast Zoom is at a normal rate in a match where he's not at a normal rate, and where you're already judging Surfer's performance beyond his normal level. How fast can he manipulate himself to be? Faster than a highly amped Flash (who reacts in pico and atto seconds, a range beyond Surfer's ability to react, judging from his showings) trying his best to stop him could possibly move.

Scan 1-2 The Flash shows Picosecond reaction Page 3 Zoom Moves so fast even Wally cannot see him.

Let's assume that Zoom ko's both SS and SMP with a flurry of punches. Since Zoom cannot actually destroy either foe's bodies, this is what we have. Well, the moment SS regains conciousness, he would emit a very powerfull area of effect blast from his body in all directions. The only thing Zoom would sense would be light eminating from SS's body. That's the only thing Zoom has to react to. And at that point, Zoom could no longer ko SS because he would be punching into a vast energy that would destroy him. Then the Earth, along with Zoom, dies.

Adding SMP is overkill.

@Jeronimo said:

Let's assume that Zoom ko's both SS and SMP with a flurry of punches. Since Zoom cannot actually destroy either foe's bodies, this is what we have. Well, the moment SS regains conciousness, he would emit a very powerfull area of effect blast from his body in all directions. The only thing Zoom would sense would be light eminating from SS's body. That's the only thing Zoom has to react to. And at that point, Zoom could no longer ko SS because he would be punching into a vast energy that would destroy him. Then the Earth, along with Zoom, dies.

Adding SMP is overkill.

Why would he need to destroy Surfer's body? What sense does anything you've said make?