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#1 Posted by Wizardboy (53 posts) - - Show Bio

Race

#2 Posted by Chaos Prime (10842 posts) - - Show Bio

Please!!!

#3 Posted by The Man of Yesteryear (5502 posts) - - Show Bio

This must be a trick question, the answer is Flash.

#4 Posted by The Average Bear (2071 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Man of Yesteryear said:

This must be a trick question, the answer is Flash.

What makes you say that?

#5 Posted by Saren (25332 posts) - - Show Bio

This was sort of resolved in Blitz, Wally and Hunter covered the same distance in the same amount of time, only Wally needed the speed of three other Speed Force users to reach Zoom's level.

Moderator
#6 Edited by Billy Batson (57799 posts) - - Show Bio

Read comics.
BB

#7 Posted by Illuminatus (9497 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom.

#8 Posted by Wizardboy (53 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom wins: He is capable of running at extraordinary speeds much greater than average human speeds and even that of the finest human athletes. He can also punch his opponent many times in less than a second, like he did to Wonder Woman's sister. He moved so fast that even when Wally West took both of the other Flashes' (Barry and Jay's) speed and his perceptions are moving faster, Hunter Zolomon was still just a blur to Wally.

#9 Posted by Enemybird (3149 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wizardboy said:

Race

Zoom is much faster than flash.. this is spite thread

#10 Posted by The Average Bear (2071 posts) - - Show Bio

@Enemybird said:

@Wizardboy said:

Race

Zoom is much faster than flash.. this is spite thread

Technically not "faster" because Zoom manipulates his time field but he is able to "move" faster than Flash. So, agreed.

#11 Posted by Enemybird (3149 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Average Bear said:

@Enemybird said:

@Wizardboy said:

Race

Zoom is much faster than flash.. this is spite thread

Technically not "faster" because Zoom manipulates his time field but he is able to "move" faster than Flash. So, agreed.

Why isn't he "technically faster" in your mind?

#12 Posted by 80sBaby (1343 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wizardboy: FYI, Zoom doesn't "run" fast at all, actually. He "skips" through time. But yeah, Zolomon takes this easily.

#13 Posted by nickthedevil (11662 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahahaha... Zooooom

#14 Posted by TDK_1997 (14474 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom

#15 Posted by CaptainRodgers (1656 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wizardboy said:

Zoom wins: He is capable of running at extraordinary speeds much greater than average human speeds and even that of the finest human athletes. He can also punch his opponent many times in less than a second, like he did to Wonder Woman's sister. He moved so fast that even when Wally West took both of the other Flashes' (Barry and Jay's) speed and his perceptions are moving faster, Hunter Zolomon was still just a blur to Wally.

Well obviously but as if that's relevant when we're speaking about Zoom and Flash.

#16 Posted by Iju (102 posts) - - Show Bio

zoom...

#17 Posted by nickzambuto (13052 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wizardboy said:

Zoom wins: He is capable of running at extraordinary speeds much greater than average human speeds and even that of the finest human athletes.

Online
#18 Posted by Om4zd (920 posts) - - Show Bio

OP needs to specify which versions of Flash and Zoom these are. Barry is, at the moment or pre 52 the fastest Flash due to the time he spent in the speed force. Hunter Zolomon is fastest Zoom since he slows down time and stuff. Sorry I'm not really a speedster fan.

#19 Posted by nickthedevil (11662 posts) - - Show Bio

@Om4zd said:

OP needs to specify which versions of Flash and Zoom these are. Barry is, at the moment or pre 52 the fastest Flash due to the time he spent in the speed force. Hunter Zolomon is fastest Zoom since he slows down time and stuff. Sorry I'm not really a speedster fan.

Usually when someone says just Zoom, it's Hunter Zolomon.

Professor Zoom doesn't go by just Zoom.

And (before he died) Professor zoom was the fastest. he gained Time manipulation powers with many more uses than just speeding up his own time.

#20 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (2791 posts) - - Show Bio

READ SOME COMICS!!!!!!!!!!

#21 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Average Bear said:

"move"

"Move?"

#22 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom

#23 Posted by Wardemon32 (4109 posts) - - Show Bio

Wtf, is wrong with you guys? If Flash was trying to it's over for them

#24 Posted by beatboks1 (7004 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 why bump a spite thread. Flash always tries against Zoom, while Zoom only toys with him and Flash never wins. no matter how much speed force Wally or any Flash take on how much speed they absorb Zoom can just make time that much slower to his time. READ SOME COMICS

#25 Posted by Killemall (18323 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32 said:

Wtf, is wrong with you guys? If Flash was trying to it's over for them

For them? Flash is racing Zoom one person no them here mate so either you are getting Zoom (Hunter Zolomon) mixed up with Prof Zoom (Edward Thwane) or Kid Zoom , you do not know who Zoom is (and i think its the former you might be getting confused with characters)

Flash Volume 2 Issue 199, Wally West couldnt even see Zoom let alone match his speed. And two speed force users (Bart and Jay) lend him their speed and Zoom still appeared as blurr to him and was still leagues and bound faster than Flash because he still managed to beat him up with absolute ease and was easily blitzing him.

Next Issue, Volume 2 Issue 200 Jessy Quick come along and gives Wally West her entire speed using the speed mantra and then they race (Zoom tries to kill his wife while flash trying to save her), and that finally where Zoom and Flash were equally matched.

So unless its Wally with a massive speed amp , i.e. speed of jay, Bart and Jessy, he's significantly slower than Zolomon.

#26 Posted by Wardemon32 (4109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: For them was obviously a mistake. I know the difference between Zoom and Professor Zoom. I know for a FACT that Flash can beat Zoom. Flash at full power is no competition because of the fact that Flash has no speed limit. So if Flash was going all out at his CURRENT power Zoom would lose, because, no matter how much Zoom slows time down Flash will keep accelerating. But, if you have an argument with that what about the Speed Force. Flash is connected to the speed force and can not be removed. And the fact that the speed force is Time and Space Flash will win. No matter how much Zoom slows down time.

#27 Posted by Floopay (8644 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Average Bear said:

@Enemybird said:

@Wizardboy said:

Race

Zoom is much faster than flash.. this is spite thread

Technically not "faster" because Zoom manipulates his time field but he is able to "move" faster than Flash. So, agreed.

You know, everytime I hear this explanation it bothers me. I know that's his power, and that's how the writers wrote his powers...but....I just don't think they understand how time works when approaching high speeds of that caliber.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#28 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

Zoom.
#29 Posted by Killemall (18323 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32 said:

@Killemall: For them was obviously a mistake. I know the difference between Zoom and Professor Zoom. I know for a FACT that Flash can beat Zoom. Flash at full power is no competition because of the fact that Flash has no speed limit. So if Flash was going all out at his CURRENT power Zoom would lose, because, no matter how much Zoom slows time down Flash will keep accelerating. But, if you have an argument with that what about the Speed Force. Flash is connected to the speed force and can not be removed. And the fact that the speed force is Time and Space Flash will win. No matter how much Zoom slows down time.

What are you talking about?

Based on what can Flash beat Zoom, that certainly did not happen in blitz or any other time they have met.

Current? As in new 52? Because Wally West was at his best power level while facing Zoom and got blitz repeatedly.

Flash tried and failed in comics, so unless you have anything to show as a proof i dont agree at all.

Flash is connected to the speedforce, can manipulate SOME of it, his control of speedforce is not absolute has never been. So i dont see how thats a win.

#30 Posted by beatboks1 (7004 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32 said:

@Killemall: For them was obviously a mistake. I know the difference between Zoom and Professor Zoom. I know for a FACT that Flash can beat Zoom. Flash at full power is no competition because of the fact that Flash has no speed limit. So if Flash was going all out at his CURRENT power Zoom would lose, because, no matter how much Zoom slows time down Flash will keep accelerating. But, if you have an argument with that what about the Speed Force. Flash is connected to the speed force and can not be removed. And the fact that the speed force is Time and Space Flash will win. No matter how much Zoom slows down time.

Try actually reading a comic will you. Flash very much DOES have a speed limit. If he goes too fast he enters the speed force and is never seen again. there is and always has been a very distinct line he cannot cross. Each time that's happened it has been the seeming death of that Flash. Now if he has to BFR himself to be faster than Zoom, that is hardly a win.

The fact that the speed force is NOT time and space at all but a source of energy generated by Barry Allen is yet another example of your delusion. The fact is Zoom can alter his own as well as others relative rates of time. He can speed himself up compared to time and others down. If he makes it so that a million years for Flash pass by in what he thinks of as a nano second than it wont matter how fast Flash can get.Flash's speed is still relative to his time. IF he runs 5 million km's in a nano second it still takes him a nano second to run it. That would be a nano second (for him) out of a million years, so for zoom it would be a billionth (or much less) of a nano second. Speed is irreverent to time manipulators. Speed is Distance traveled divided by the time of travel. the time is constant, the speed is what varies. Someone who can make the time not constant and affect the thing that measures a fast speed is always greater than the speed.

#31 Posted by beatboks1 (7004 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32: said:

Theoretically Flash should be able to win. He can also occupy every space in the universe at the same moment. On top of that, he inexplicably has full control over himself. His reaction time increases with his speedExample, there's a count down for a race and none of them can use their power or powerup before the race starts. If Zoom slows down time and Flash couldn't increase his perception of time Zoom wins. Only scenario zoom will win. If Zoom doesn't use his powers before the count down he automatically loses. Why?, Zoom is a normal human being that can only slow down time. He really doesn't have super speed at all. His Brain isn't fact and reaction time. So once the count goes down and they both start the race Zoom wouldn't have the reaction time to set his powers. So even if he can stop time he would lose. Because, he doesn't have the reaction time. He can also occupy every space in the universe at the same moment. On top of that, he inexplicably has full control over himself. His reaction time increases with his speed. The Speed Force is the last barrier. With Speed comes time. Flash can run at any speed. "Someone who can make the time not constant and affect the thing that measures a fast speed is always greater than the speed" This isn't the case if he runs at any speed.

Haha and with this statement you show how clueless you are..

1. Zooms abilities don't "turn off" the Flashes always look slow to him.

2.if they did and the instant the race started he altered their relative rates of time (which would be instant) he'd still be faster sooner than. The instant the race begins Flash might be near the finish line but Zoom only has to alter relative time enough that he's still there first.

There is NO scenario in which someone only with the power of speed (even if that speed was limitless times infinite) can be faster than someone with the power to alter the flow of time. The fact is speed is still limited by the quotient of time, something that is under the control of the time manipulator. Speed is governed by time which to speed is a constant. If time is governed by something else that thing ultimately controls speed .

#32 Posted by Jezer (3097 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32 said:

@Killemall: For them was obviously a mistake. I know the difference between Zoom and Professor Zoom. I know for a FACT that Flash can beat Zoom. Flash at full power is no competition because of the fact that Flash has no speed limit. So if Flash was going all out at his CURRENT power Zoom would lose, because, no matter how much Zoom slows time down Flash will keep accelerating. But, if you have an argument with that what about the Speed Force. Flash is connected to the speed force and can not be removed. And the fact that the speed force is Time and Space Flash will win. No matter how much Zoom slows down time.

Why make a post if you don't know very much about the character you're talking about?

#33 Posted by Shisho_The_Fist (126 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32 said:

@Killemall: For them was obviously a mistake. I know the difference between Zoom and Professor Zoom. I know for a FACT that Flash can beat Zoom. Flash at full power is no competition because of the fact that Flash has no speed limit. So if Flash was going all out at his CURRENT power Zoom would lose, because, no matter how much Zoom slows time down Flash will keep accelerating. But, if you have an argument with that what about the Speed Force. Flash is connected to the speed force and can not be removed. And the fact that the speed force is Time and Space Flash will win. No matter how much Zoom slows down time.

@beatboks1 said:

@Wardemon32: said:

Theoretically Flash should be able to win. He can also occupy every space in the universe at the same moment. On top of that, he inexplicably has full control over himself. His reaction time increases with his speedExample, there's a count down for a race and none of them can use their power or powerup before the race starts. If Zoom slows down time and Flash couldn't increase his perception of time Zoom wins. Only scenario zoom will win. If Zoom doesn't use his powers before the count down he automatically loses. Why?, Zoom is a normal human being that can only slow down time. He really doesn't have super speed at all. His Brain isn't fact and reaction time. So once the count goes down and they both start the race Zoom wouldn't have the reaction time to set his powers. So even if he can stop time he would lose. Because, he doesn't have the reaction time. He can also occupy every space in the universe at the same moment. On top of that, he inexplicably has full control over himself. His reaction time increases with his speed. The Speed Force is the last barrier. With Speed comes time. Flash can run at any speed. "Someone who can make the time not constant and affect the thing that measures a fast speed is always greater than the speed" This isn't the case if he runs at any speed.

No No No and No

#34 Posted by XiiX (7479 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom.

#35 Posted by beatboks1 (7004 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32 said:

But no matter how much he slows time down. If someone has infinite speed you can't really slow down because, they'll just keep going faster.

See here's the problem. Flash doesn't have "infinite speed". I already stated he has a limit or there would be no fear of him getting sucked into the speed force if he goes to fast.

@beatboks1 said:


Try actually reading a comic will you. Flash very much DOES have a speed limit. If he goes too fast he enters the speed force and is never seen again. there is and always has been a very distinct line he cannot cross. Each time that's happened it has been the seeming death of that Flash. Now if he has to BFR himself to be faster than Zoom, that is hardly a win.

SHOULD I SLOW D O W N S OOOOO Y O U C A N K E E E E P U P

The fact is since speed is determined by time the only way you can have limitless speed is to control time.

In other words the only on in this thread with LIMITLESS / INFINITE speed is ZOOM

#36 Posted by nickthedevil (11662 posts) - - Show Bio

uh.... what?

#37 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom has "speed" through major time manipulator.

Flash has minor (seconds) time travel through speed.

Zoom has a clear advantage.

And not only that, but Zoom was created specifically to give Flash a hard time. So it really only begs to reason.

#38 Posted by nickthedevil (11662 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

Zoom has "speed" through major time manipulator.

Flash has minor (seconds) time travel through speed.

Zoom has a clear advantage.

And not only that, but Zoom was created specifically to give Flash a hard time. So it really only begs to reason.

Eh, I know this is beside the point, but it irks me sometimes...

1. Zoom isn't a time manipulator, he is just in a different time line, alternating between two.

2) He was actually accidental. or did you mean writers created him? Sorry, I'm tired...

#39 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

@greenteaforme said:

Zoom has "speed" through major time manipulator.

Flash has minor (seconds) time travel through speed.

Zoom has a clear advantage.

And not only that, but Zoom was created specifically to give Flash a hard time. So it really only begs to reason.

Eh, I know this is beside the point, but it irks me sometimes...

1. Zoom isn't a time manipulator, he is just in a different time line, alternating between two.

2) He was actually accidental. or did you mean writers created him? Sorry, I'm tired...

It was my understanding that he altered his personal time, and time relative to himself.

And I meant the writers created Zoom specifically to hassle Flash, so he'd obviously have "speeds" on a level to be able to do so.

#40 Posted by beatboks1 (7004 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wardemon32: said

But, Zoom doesn't have "Speed". He manipulates time. With INFINITE speed no matter how much you manipulate time the speed is infinite so it will always get to it's destination in Zero seconds

Which since Flash doesn't have "infinite speed is completely and utterly irrelevant. Zooms ability gives him the ability to have a lot closer to infinite speed than anything that any Flash ever could.

#41 Posted by nickthedevil (11662 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

@nickthedevil said:

@greenteaforme said:

Zoom has "speed" through major time manipulator.

Flash has minor (seconds) time travel through speed.

Zoom has a clear advantage.

And not only that, but Zoom was created specifically to give Flash a hard time. So it really only begs to reason.

Eh, I know this is beside the point, but it irks me sometimes...

1. Zoom isn't a time manipulator, he is just in a different time line, alternating between two.

2) He was actually accidental. or did you mean writers created him? Sorry, I'm tired...

It was my understanding that he altered his personal time, and time relative to himself.

And I meant the writers created Zoom specifically to hassle Flash, so he'd obviously have "speeds" on a level to be able to do so.

Nah, even in certain scans, Zoom states he can't control or temper his speed. in blitz, when he first meets linda west atop their penthouse.

#42 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

@greenteaforme said:

@nickthedevil said:

@greenteaforme said:

Zoom has "speed" through major time manipulator.

Flash has minor (seconds) time travel through speed.

Zoom has a clear advantage.

And not only that, but Zoom was created specifically to give Flash a hard time. So it really only begs to reason.

Eh, I know this is beside the point, but it irks me sometimes...

1. Zoom isn't a time manipulator, he is just in a different time line, alternating between two.

2) He was actually accidental. or did you mean writers created him? Sorry, I'm tired...

It was my understanding that he altered his personal time, and time relative to himself.

And I meant the writers created Zoom specifically to hassle Flash, so he'd obviously have "speeds" on a level to be able to do so.

Nah, even in certain scans, Zoom states he can't control or temper his speed. in blitz, when he first meets linda west atop their penthouse.

...what?

#43 Posted by nickthedevil (11662 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

@nickthedevil said:

@greenteaforme said:

@nickthedevil said:

@greenteaforme said:

Zoom has "speed" through major time manipulator.

Flash has minor (seconds) time travel through speed.

Zoom has a clear advantage.

And not only that, but Zoom was created specifically to give Flash a hard time. So it really only begs to reason.

Eh, I know this is beside the point, but it irks me sometimes...

1. Zoom isn't a time manipulator, he is just in a different time line, alternating between two.

2) He was actually accidental. or did you mean writers created him? Sorry, I'm tired...

It was my understanding that he altered his personal time, and time relative to himself.

And I meant the writers created Zoom specifically to hassle Flash, so he'd obviously have "speeds" on a level to be able to do so.

Nah, even in certain scans, Zoom states he can't control or temper his speed. in blitz, when he first meets linda west atop their penthouse.

...what?

Forget it, i'm tired right now.

#44 Posted by Killemall (18323 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

Nah, even in certain scans, Zoom states he can't control or temper his speed. in blitz, when he first meets linda west atop their penthouse.

Zoom refers to his powers as speed though. Flash Volume 2 Issue 197, when Zolomon first discovered his ability he referred to it as superspeed.

Flash volume 2 Issue 198, Zolomon was outright stated to be the fastest man alive.

In Flash Volume 2 Issue 199, while talking with Linda, Zoom stated his powers as speed "speed, hard to adjust perception"..

there are of course other instances.

So despite how his powers work, its generally regarded as being speed (although i have to agree there are time when he has said he pops in and out of time lines)

I think thats what nick is talking about.

Should you wish to see scans let me know.

#45 Posted by spawn_123 (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom

#46 Posted by nickthedevil (11662 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@nickthedevil said:

Nah, even in certain scans, Zoom states he can't control or temper his speed. in blitz, when he first meets linda west atop their penthouse.

Zoom refers to his powers as speed though. Flash Volume 2 Issue 197, when Zolomon first discovered his ability he referred to it as superspeed.

Flash volume 2 Issue 198, Zolomon was outright stated to be the fastest man alive.

In Flash Volume 2 Issue 199, while talking with Linda, Zoom stated his powers as speed "speed, hard to adjust perception"..

there are of course other instances.

So despite how his powers work, its generally regarded as being speed (although i have to agree there are time when he has said he pops in and out of time lines)

I think thats what nick is talking about.

Should you wish to see scans let me know.

yeah, speed by definition, is how much ditance can be covered in a certain amount of time. So yes, Zoom has speed.

I got my own scans, thanks XD

#47 Posted by Jezer (3097 posts) - - Show Bio

Just gonna dump this here(as it's related to the thread and I see no point in it being private messaged to me instead of being in the thread...)

@Jezer said:

@Wardemon32 said:

@Killemall: For them was obviously a mistake. I know the difference between Zoom and Professor Zoom. I know for a FACT that Flash can beat Zoom. Flash at full power is no competition because of the fact that Flash has no speed limit. So if Flash was going all out at his CURRENT power Zoom would lose, because, no matter how much Zoom slows time down Flash will keep accelerating. But, if you have an argument with that what about the Speed Force. Flash is connected to the speed force and can not be removed. And the fact that the speed force is Time and Space Flash will win. No matter how much Zoom slows down time.

Why make a post if you don't know very much about the character you're talking about?

@Wardemon32 said:

What are you talking about?

@Jezer said:

I'm talking about the fact that you don't know much about Zoom's character.

For example, "No matter how much Zoom slows down time." Zoom doesn't slow down time.

@Wardemon32 said:

What are you talking about? Zoom Manipulates time so that everything is slowed down to him. The fact that he can manipulate time is slowing it down.

@Jezer said:

Zoom doesn't manipulate time. Like I said, you should learn how his power's work before posting about Flash "beating" him.

Zoom manipulates how fast his personal timeline moves through time. The slower his personal timeline is moving, the slower he's experiencing time. If he stops his personal timeline, as it was when he first got his power, from his perspective he's effectively stopped time.

Seriously though, it makes you look bad when you make grossly factually incorrect comments about a comic book character.

@Wardemon32 said:

He can't stop time. I've never seen him stop time all together rather than slow it in his perspective. If he can't stop it all together he loses because. With INFINITE speed no matter how much you manipulate time the speed is infinite so it will always get to it's destination in Zero seconds. And even if wouldn't zoom have to ACTIVE those powers. Because if he freezes time before they start then that wouldn't count. If this was the case he would get stomped by Metron. That would be a good fight is Zoom could freeze time

@Jezer said:

See, you're wrong. he CAN stop time. When he first got his powers, time was stopped. He had to learn how to to get time moving. That was the default position of his powers without him learning how to use it to make himself move more in line with everyonelse going through time.

Everytime Zoom's going slow, he's making himself go slow by activating his powers - because he's defaultly faster than everyone. So, in a battle, we put him in his default position of being faster than everyone.

I'm too lazy to dig up the scans. There's like millions of Zoom threads where the user Zoom posted scans of how his power works, how he can use his power, ect. Just search through them.

@Wardemon32 said:

You saying Zoom freezes time doesn't even count. If Flash doesn't move that isn't considered a race. That would be freezing time. Freezing time in a race and slowing it down is two TOTALLY different things. Now if Zoom doesn't freeze time Flash simply wins. Hence the would RACE. Freezing time doesn't count at all

@Jezer said:

Lmao.

No, because Zoom could make it so that his personal timeline is just barely moving through time. Effectively, the Flash would still be a statue, but time would still - insignficantly - be moving. I dont know why you think Zoom has to freeze time to win, Flash needs to build up to his top speeds. No matter how little time it takes for FLash to do so, Zoom could manipulate his personal timeline to the point that he's won the race at the moment Flash has just achieved his top speed.

Furthermore, a race is not tied to whether each person moves. The race is a race as soon as they're lined up and something starts it. If we were at the Olympics, and the referee shot the pistol to start the match, and neither of us moved - time would still be running and the race would have begun regardless. Lol, if I race someone and it starts, and I don't leave the starting line - I can't just be like "hey ref, I didn't move. Race doesn't count. Srs." Lol.

You're kinda wrong on all counts here. You're thoroughly wrong.

@Wardemon32 said:

It's a difference between not being able to move at all and choosing not to move so that's Olympic reference was totally wrong lol. "personal timeline is just barely moving through time". No matter how much you slow down time you CAN NEVER beat infinite. It is impossible. You don't have a top speed when you speed is infinite. And the speed force is the last barrier in DC universe. He can break all barriers including the time barrier. His speed is so immeasurable that he has moved and reacted by the attosecond (an attosecond is one quintillionth of a second. To put this in perspective, one attosecond is to one second, what one second is to the age of the universe.), and has even reacted and calculated by the zeptosecond (Which is one trillionth of one billionth of one second.) and has other feats of speed that are immeasurable. His ability to alter his own perception of time is so great, that if he wishes, the tick between a second can pass for millions of years. He can even push this ability to the point, that to him, it's as if the Universe is standing still. It does not truly stand still, it is his own perception of time that seems to stand still, and his body automatically adjusts to his perception, hence, the slower he views the world, the faster his body moves through time/space to adjust to his perception. Kinda like zoom. The difference is Flash has it limitless, while Zoom just keeps slowing down time. Yea, he can do it as much as he wants but, that would really effect Flash's movement in actuality because, his speed is LIMITLESS He can even all together, break time through the time and dimension barrier, to truly be beyond time/space. So the faster he is the higher his perception is.

Yea, I understand that Zoom can further make " If he makes it so that a million years for Flash pass by in what he thinks of as a nano second than it wont matter how fast Flash can get.Flash's speed is still relative to his time" But, this would only account for Flash not being able to run at any speed. But, since he can that takes that out of account, because, Flash will just keep getting faster, as Zoom alters time itself. The fact that Flash can be everywhere at the same time means that he can get to point A to point B in Zero seconds. While Zoom slows it down there will still be a time frame within that gap that Zoom is slowing down time.

But, Keep in mind this is a theory of what Flash can do. In actuality the comic is going to put Zoom over Flash sometimes because, that's the whole point of Zoom. To make Flash become a better hero. Now if what I said was used in the comic against Zoom would cross out the whole purpose of Zoom. Then the fans will get mad. Just like how Wally is being crossed out. I have a feeling this conversation isn't going to get anywhere because, you'll just disagree with what each other say because, it's all in how you see how these two characters use their powers. Like how you would see a comic and be like "Why didn't he do this that...... " It won't make any sense you replying back much so you shouldn't even do it. This may be my last comment because i'm getting tired of this. Maybe another debate on different characters some other time.

@Jezer said:

It's a difference between not being able to move at all and choosing not to move so that's Olympic reference was totally wrong lol."

Wrong. All you said was, "If Flash doesn't move that isn't considered a race." Making it dependent on his movement, regardless of intentions. Concerning what you originally said, they're is no difference. Don't just change your story just because I've disproven your theory on what makes a race a race. lol

"No matter how much you slow down time you CAN NEVER beat infinite. It is impossible. You don't have a top speed when you speed is infinite."

I don't think you conceptually understand what you're talking about. Flash having infinite speed means that time is moving infinitely slowier and slowier or time has completely stopped. Velocity=Distance/Time Therefore, to have infinite speed, Time would have to be constantly getting smaller. Like .00000000000000000 and adding more 0's. The top speed there is is no time, where you go to any distance in 0 amount of time. Which Zoom can do. But, Zoom can also make time crawl infinitely small, which is the same as infinite speed on FLashe's end.

You honestly don't know what you're talking about. lol

Regardless, I'm not sure Flash even has infinite speed.

"And the speed force is the last barrier in DC universe. He can break all barriers including the time barrier. His speed is so immeasurable that he has moved and reacted by the attosecond (an attosecond is one quintillionth of a second. To put this in perspective, one attosecond is to one second, what one second is to the age of the universe.), and has even reacted and calculated by the zeptosecond (Which is one trillionth of one billionth of one second.) and has other feats of speed that are immeasurable. His ability to alter his own perception of time is so great, that if he wishes, the tick between a second can pass for millions of years. He can even push this ability to the point, that to him, it's as if the Universe is standing still. It does not truly stand still, it is his own perception of time that seems to stand still, and his body automatically adjusts to his perception, hence, the slower he views the world, the faster his body moves through time/space to adjust to his perception. Kinda like zoom. The difference is Flash has it limitless, while Zoom just keeps slowing down time."

None of what you say here matters - none of the titles and achievements. Flashe's speed is not limitless, which is why he had to steal speed to get to Zoom's level. He wasn't able to build it up. Zoom's speed can be infinite. Flashe's isn't. That's why he loses. Like I've been saying, why don't you read up on the characters before making statements about them?

"But, this would only account for Flash not being able to run at any speed. But, since he can that takes that out of account, because, Flash will just keep getting faster, as Zoom alters time itself. The fact that Flash can be everywhere at the same time means that he can get to point A to point B in Zero seconds. While Zoom slows it down there will still be a time frame within that gap that Zoom is slowing down time."

Not only are you wrong here, but you're being hypocritical. If Flash can get from point A to point B in 0 seconds, then Zoom doesn't get the chance to move - and therefore its not an actual race! Lol. Remember when you said that?

"But, Keep in mind this is a theory of what Flash can do. In actuality the comic is going to put Zoom over Flash sometimes because, that's the whole point of Zoom. To make Flash become a better hero. Now if what I said was used in the comic against Zoom would cross out the whole purpose of Zoom. Then the fans will get mad. Just like how Wally is being crossed out. I have a feeling this conversation isn't going to get anywhere because, you'll just disagree with what each other say because, it's all in how you see how these two characters use their powers."

Yeah...I can tell. In actuality, comic is going to put Zoom over Flash because Flash doesn't actually have infinite speed. ('-' ) And because Flash isn't omnipresent ('-' ) What you said wouldn't be used in comics because Flash simply doesn't have the capabilities you said. Its that simple.

And, wrong on the most important count. You don't judge battle threads by what you creatively and imaginatively think the characters can and should do, based on your own wishful thinking. You judge them based on what they do in character, how they routinely use their powers in comics, and the feats that establish their general and high end capabilities of their powers. You don't just go "Well if Flash does this", you have to also argue that Flash will do that. I'm not disagreeing with you because it's all in how we see the characters using their powers; I'm disagreeing with you because characters have a modus operandi/habits concerning how they act. So, how they are most likely going to act in a battle/race is how they acted in similar battles in comics, taking into account context and PIS.

"It won't make any sense you replying back much so you shouldn't even do it. This may be my last comment because i'm getting tired of this."

What's the difference between me replying back and you doing so? It doesn't make sense for you to say for me not to reply back after failing to do so yourself. And yes, if I were you, I'd be tired of being wrong as well.

#48 Posted by Killemall (18323 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

yeah, speed by definition, is how much ditance can be covered in a certain amount of time. So yes, Zoom has speed.

I got my own scans, thanks XD

I was actually trying to reply greenteaforme , dont know what happened there :p lol

nevermind!

#49 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom.

#50 Posted by Cable_Extreme (8726 posts) - - Show Bio
@80sBaby said:


                    @Wizardboy: FYI, Zoom doesn't "run" fast at all, actually. He "skips" through time. But yeah, Zolomon takes this easily.

                   

               

Speed is determined by Distance/Time. If you see him reach a place faster than flash, he still traveled that distance and was there before flash, so he is indeed faster. Whether or not he precieves time slower when running, time is still the measurement.
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