#1 Posted by Bucketz (827 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Zoom & Flash beat the entire X-Men?


X-Mansion (Security Off, Duh)

Team 1 Can BFR + Bloodlusted

Team 2 no morals (Not bloodlusted)

No Planet Destroying


#2 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3207 posts) - - Show Bio

This is spite...

#3 Posted by mark5 (1213 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supermanwithatan01 said:
This is spite...
agreed.
#4 Posted by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio
All the X-Men that are on the actual team (No new mutants or X factor) or all Mutants? Just clarifying. 
#5 Posted by mark5 (1213 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wise Son said:
All the X-Men that are on the actual team (No new mutants or X factor) or all Mutants? Just clarifying. 
None really have the reaction time to even remotely stop zoom or flash.
#6 Edited by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio
@mark5 said:

@Wise Son said:

All the X-Men that are on the actual team (No new mutants or X factor) or all Mutants? Just clarifying. 
None really have the reaction time to even remotely stop zoom or flash.
Let's ignore the fact there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of mutants that Zoom and Flash would have to mow down. There are several reality warpers who with a notion could end them. It's just the sheer numbers which would be damning in this situation. 

EDIT: There are mutants who can slow or stop time too.
#7 Edited by mark5 (1213 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wise Son said:

@mark5 said:

@Wise Son said:
All the X-Men that are on the actual team (No new mutants or X factor) or all Mutants? Just clarifying. 
None really have the reaction time to even remotely stop zoom or flash.
Let's ignore the fact there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of mutants that Zoom and Flash would have to mow down. There are several reality warpers who with a notion could end them. It's just the sheer numbers which would be damning in this situation. 
LMAO they will not even have registered the fact that the battle began. DO you know how fast zoom is? He alone could end this, with flash is spite. Check the SS vs Zoom thread to see what i'm saying. He mows them down within picoseconds. 
#8 Posted by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio
@mark5 said:
@Wise Son said:

@mark5 said:

@Wise Son said:
All the X-Men that are on the actual team (No new mutants or X factor) or all Mutants? Just clarifying. 
None really have the reaction time to even remotely stop zoom or flash.
Let's ignore the fact there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of mutants that Zoom and Flash would have to mow down. There are several reality warpers who with a notion could end them. It's just the sheer numbers which would be damning in this situation. 
LMAO they will not even have registered the fact that the battle began. DO you know how fast zoom is? He alone could end this, with flash is spite. Check the SS vs Zoom thread to see what i'm saying. He mows them down within picoseconds. 
Whatever. Really don't care either way. Just presenting a little evidence as Devil's advocate. 
#9 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (3207 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wise Son said:
@mark5 said:
@Wise Son said:
All the X-Men that are on the actual team (No new mutants or X factor) or all Mutants? Just clarifying. 
None really have the reaction time to even remotely stop zoom or flash.
Let's ignore the fact there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of mutants that Zoom and Flash would have to mow down. There are several reality warpers who with a notion could end them. It's just the sheer numbers which would be damning in this situation. 
Ha if we did that we'd also have to ignore the fact that Zoom and Flash can circle the earth 12 times in 1 second, hit at least as hard as Superman, They wont be able to touch Zoom, Flash is immune to telepathy via speeding up thoughts AND protection by the speed force, Flash could Speed Steal, add it to his own (like he'd need to), Infinite Mass Punch, control over his own molecules, control over Kinetic Energy (which is literally in almost EVERYthing in the universe including Ions) and well the list goes on. Zoom snaps his fingers and it causes sonic booms that seem like earthquakes... This fight is over before it started. No one can move 1/3 as fast as either of these characters, and both have Picosecond reaction time. And EEEEVVVVEEEENNN if Wally and Zoom chill after defeating your hundreds or thousands of useless mutants, allowing a reality warper to warp reality, The first sight of trouble they'd KO them, Wally can travel through time, dimensions, and space. He can move through different planes of existence and reality. Lol The Flash or Zoom win. If you Make Wally the Flash and have him being the only Flash active (not barry, jay, or bart) then with what he could draw from the SF, both he and Zoom could solo.
#10 Posted by mark5 (1213 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supermanwithatan01 said:
@Wise Son said:
@mark5 said:
@Wise Son said:
All the X-Men that are on the actual team (No new mutants or X factor) or all Mutants? Just clarifying. 
None really have the reaction time to even remotely stop zoom or flash.
Let's ignore the fact there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of mutants that Zoom and Flash would have to mow down. There are several reality warpers who with a notion could end them. It's just the sheer numbers which would be damning in this situation. 
Ha if we did that we'd also have to ignore the fact that Zoom and Flash can circle the earth 12 times in 1 second, hit at least as hard as Superman, They wont be able to touch Zoom, Flash is immune to telepathy via speeding up thoughts AND protection by the speed force, Flash could Speed Steal, add it to his own (like he'd need to), Infinite Mass Punch, control over his own molecules, control over Kinetic Energy (which is literally in almost EVERYthing in the universe including Ions) and well the list goes on. Zoom snaps his fingers and it causes sonic booms that seem like earthquakes... This fight is over before it started. No one can move 1/3 as fast as either of these characters, and both have Picosecond reaction time. And EEEEVVVVEEEENNN if Wally and Zoom chill after defeating your hundreds or thousands of useless mutants, allowing a reality warper to warp reality, The first sight of trouble they'd KO them, Wally can travel through time, dimensions, and space. He can move through different planes of existence and reality. Lol The Flash or Zoom win. If you Make Wally the Flash and have him being the only Flash active (not barry, jay, or bart) then with what he could draw from the SF, both he and Zoom could solo.
They actually circles the earth several dozen times and the ENTIRE fight took only 1 second. 
#11 Posted by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio
@Supermanwithatan01 said:
@Wise Son said:
@mark5 said:
@Wise Son said:
All the X-Men that are on the actual team (No new mutants or X factor) or all Mutants? Just clarifying. 
None really have the reaction time to even remotely stop zoom or flash.
Let's ignore the fact there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of mutants that Zoom and Flash would have to mow down. There are several reality warpers who with a notion could end them. It's just the sheer numbers which would be damning in this situation. 
Ha if we did that we'd also have to ignore the fact that Zoom and Flash can circle the earth 12 times in 1 second, hit at least as hard as Superman, They wont be able to touch Zoom, Flash is immune to telepathy via speeding up thoughts AND protection by the speed force, Flash could Speed Steal, add it to his own (like he'd need to), Infinite Mass Punch, control over his own molecules, control over Kinetic Energy (which is literally in almost EVERYthing in the universe including Ions) and well the list goes on. Zoom snaps his fingers and it causes sonic booms that seem like earthquakes... This fight is over before it started. No one can move 1/3 as fast as either of these characters, and both have Picosecond reaction time. And EEEEVVVVEEEENNN if Wally and Zoom chill after defeating your hundreds or thousands of useless mutants, allowing a reality warper to warp reality, The first sight of trouble they'd KO them, Wally can travel through time, dimensions, and space. He can move through different planes of existence and reality. Lol The Flash or Zoom win. If you Make Wally the Flash and have him being the only Flash active (not barry, jay, or bart) then with what he could draw from the SF, both he and Zoom could solo.
Stating again. I really don't care. This was a bullshit thread so I gave a bullshit answer. 'Nuff said. 
#12 Posted by TDK_1997 (13663 posts) - - Show Bio

They can't stop Zoom and Flash

#13 Posted by BMEZY (1201 posts) - - Show Bio

aww.. no takers at all??? anyone? i'm going to bump this B-U-M-P

#14 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men. Hope with powers of Kiden Nixon,Velocidad, Transonic, Cannonball = Jesus she tanking people.

#15 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (5913 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom solos. (Unless Pheonix force is involved.)

#16 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Zoom solos. (Unless Pheonix force is involved.)

Zoom solo's dealing with Hope who already (in my scenario) has the powers of two Zooms (Kiden and Velocidad)? No

#17 Posted by chiq (1766 posts) - - Show Bio

legion. maybe hope in the future

#18 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

legion. maybe hope in the future

There are a couple of X-men who can tangle with the speedsters. I just went with a little bit more reserved way of dealing with the two

#19 Posted by Illuminatus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@daak1212 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Zoom solos. (Unless Pheonix force is involved.)

Zoom solo's dealing with Hope who already (in my scenario) has the powers of two Zooms (Kiden and Velocidad)? No

Neither are on the level of Zoom or any Flash, besides maybe Jay Garrick.

#20 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Zoom solos. (Unless Pheonix force is involved.)

Zoom solo's dealing with Hope who already (in my scenario) has the powers of two Zooms (Kiden and Velocidad)? No

Neither are on the level of Zoom or any Flash, besides maybe Jay Garrick.

Speed wise? Who cares, the Kiden and Velocidad thing was only used to offset Zoom's time control.

#21 Posted by Illuminatus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@daak1212 said:

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Zoom solos. (Unless Pheonix force is involved.)

Zoom solo's dealing with Hope who already (in my scenario) has the powers of two Zooms (Kiden and Velocidad)? No

Neither are on the level of Zoom or any Flash, besides maybe Jay Garrick.

Speed wise? Who cares, the Kiden and Velocidad thing was only used to offset Zoom's time control.

And what's stopping Flash from stealing every X-Men members' collective speed? Doing so would render them human statues, and those statues would easily be destroyed by a hit from Zoom.

#22 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

Zoom solos. (Unless Pheonix force is involved.)

Zoom solo's dealing with Hope who already (in my scenario) has the powers of two Zooms (Kiden and Velocidad)? No

Neither are on the level of Zoom or any Flash, besides maybe Jay Garrick.

Speed wise? Who cares, the Kiden and Velocidad thing was only used to offset Zoom's time control.

And what's stopping Flash from stealing every X-Men members' collective speed? Doing so would render them human statues, and those statues would easily be destroyed by a hit from Zoom.

So when there time flux mode what makes you think that Flash can hang? Even with all of the flashes Zoom was still a blur. I might have said it wrong, I dont mean offset I mean able to hang with his speed.

#23 Posted by Illuminatus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@daak1212 said:

So when there time flux mode what makes you think that Flash can hang? Even with all of the flashes Zoom was still a blur. I might have said it wrong, I dont mean offset I mean able to hang with his speed.

I'm confused by this statement. Would you mind clarifying it?

#24 Posted by Needlebay (1916 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Flash.

#25 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio

Xavier can dead stop the both of them with a thought.

#26 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

So when there time flux mode what makes you think that Flash can hang? Even with all of the flashes Zoom was still a blur. I might have said it wrong, I dont mean offset I mean able to hang with his speed.

I'm confused by this statement. Would you mind clarifying it?

Yeah no problem trust me I know I can be confusing lol

Okay Zoom would slow down time right? Well witht he powers of Kiden and Velocidad Hope should be able to hang with his time manipulation because of her own personal time manipulation. Now being as now they both are now on the same plane of speed or time or w/e. Hope should be able to beat Zoom. Now The Flash/Zoom thing, I said this because if Hope can now keep up with Zoom (Something that Flash cant do even with all of the other Flash's speed remember how Zoom was still a blur to him?) how would Flash tangle with Hope. Not to mention her witht he time or whatever the Zoom power is called + Cannonballs personal protective shield should equal her completly mowing over Flash.

Do you get it now? I suck at spelling and trying to explain things on the internet.

#27 Posted by Illuminatus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio
@daak1212 said: 

Okay Zoom would slow down time right? Well witht he powers of Kiden and Velocidad Hope should be able to hang with his time manipulation because of her own personal time manipulation. Now being as now they both are now on the same plane of speed or time or w/e. Hope should be able to beat Zoom. Now The Flash/Zoom thing, I said this because if Hope can now keep up with Zoom (Something that Flash cant do even with all of the other Flash's speed remember how Zoom was still a blur to him?) how would Flash tangle with Hope. Not to mention her witht he time or whatever the Zoom power is called + Cannonballs personal protective shield should equal her completly mowing over Flash.

Zoom manipulates his personal timestream. I seriously doubt Hope will be able to combat Zoom before she is killed by him. 
#28 Posted by Needlebay (1916 posts) - - Show Bio

Xavier wouldn't even come close. Flash think faaar faster than most people and have far greater reaction time. Read latest Flash.

#29 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

Okay Zoom would slow down time right? Well witht he powers of Kiden and Velocidad Hope should be able to hang with his time manipulation because of her own personal time manipulation. Now being as now they both are now on the same plane of speed or time or w/e. Hope should be able to beat Zoom. Now The Flash/Zoom thing, I said this because if Hope can now keep up with Zoom (Something that Flash cant do even with all of the other Flash's speed remember how Zoom was still a blur to him?) how would Flash tangle with Hope. Not to mention her witht he time or whatever the Zoom power is called + Cannonballs personal protective shield should equal her completly mowing over Flash.

Zoom manipulates his personal timestream. I seriously doubt Hope will be able to combat Zoom before she is killed by him.

Okay personal timestream thank you.

Hope with the powers of both Kiden and Veloc can do the same thing, infact they are just rip offs of him. If she wants to get kinky (0.o) she can use the speed of Quicksilver while manipulating the personal timestream giving her almost a faux absoulte speed. Actually I think Hope might not die also from average punches if she does have all of the mutants abilities.

#30 Posted by Illuminatus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio
@daak1212 said:

Hope with the powers of both Kiden and Veloc can do the same thing, infact they are just rip offs of him. If she wants to get kinky (0.o) she can use the speed of Quicksilver while manipulating the personal timestream giving her almost a faux absoulte speed. Actually I think Hope might not die also from average punches if she does have all of the mutants abilities.

No, she wouldn't be able to match Zoom. Zoom has been a blur to Wally when he was jacked up on multiple speedster's speeds. Seriously, having a member of the Flash family here only makes this a further stomp.
#31 Posted by Needlebay (1916 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men have NO prayer, if these guys are going all out.

#32 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay said:

Xavier wouldn't even come close. Flash think faaar faster than most people and have far greater reaction time. Read latest Flash.

I heard about that! I thought he been had that power (infact he did) I thought it was now just him making guesses with it now?

#33 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

Hope with the powers of both Kiden and Veloc can do the same thing, infact they are just rip offs of him. If she wants to get kinky (0.o) she can use the speed of Quicksilver while manipulating the personal timestream giving her almost a faux absoulte speed. Actually I think Hope might not die also from average punches if she does have all of the mutants abilities.

No, she wouldn't be able to match Zoom. Zoom has been a blur to Wally when he was jacked up on multiple speedster's speeds. Seriously, having a member of the Flash family here only makes this a further stomp.

They both have personal time manipulation. Plus Hope is now has the ability of Quicksilver. She's a blur to him now.

#34 Posted by Illuminatus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio
@daak1212 said:

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

Hope with the powers of both Kiden and Veloc can do the same thing, infact they are just rip offs of him. If she wants to get kinky (0.o) she can use the speed of Quicksilver while manipulating the personal timestream giving her almost a faux absoulte speed. Actually I think Hope might not die also from average punches if she does have all of the mutants abilities.

No, she wouldn't be able to match Zoom. Zoom has been a blur to Wally when he was jacked up on multiple speedster's speeds. Seriously, having a member of the Flash family here only makes this a further stomp.

They both have personal time manipulation. Plus Hope is now has the ability of Quicksilver. She's a blur to him now.

You're acting like Quicksilver is some ridiculously fast speedster who's powers are of actual use here. They're not. Any Flash would scoff at Pietro, same with Zoom.
#35 Posted by CODYSF (2047 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL the Flash team curve stomp the X-Men this is not funny.

#36 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

Hope with the powers of both Kiden and Veloc can do the same thing, infact they are just rip offs of him. If she wants to get kinky (0.o) she can use the speed of Quicksilver while manipulating the personal timestream giving her almost a faux absoulte speed. Actually I think Hope might not die also from average punches if she does have all of the mutants abilities.

No, she wouldn't be able to match Zoom. Zoom has been a blur to Wally when he was jacked up on multiple speedster's speeds. Seriously, having a member of the Flash family here only makes this a further stomp.

They both have personal time manipulation. Plus Hope is now has the ability of Quicksilver. She's a blur to him now.

You're acting like Quicksilver is some ridiculously fast speedster who's powers are of actual use here. They're not. Any Flash would scoff at Pietro, same with Zoom.

Damn okay Im not making it clear. Okay Kiden Nixon and Velocidad have the same powers as Zoom. Okay so Hope now has there powers. Now with those powers she can now keep up with Zoom. So pretty much those two will be fast as all hell to everybody else except each other because of the personal time stream manipulation. Now if Hope now has the powers of quicksilver+time stream manipulation she DEFINITELY to fast for anybody including Zoom because they are both on the same timestream except she now has Quicksilver's powers. After she caps him she now can cap Flash. See?

#37 Edited by Illuminatus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio
@daak1212 said:

Damn okay Im not making it clear. Okay Kiden Nixon and Velocidad have the same powers as Zoom. 

No, they don't. They're all different from Zoom's, and pale in comparison. 
 
@daak1212 said:

Okay so Hope now has there powers. Now with those powers she can now keep up with Zoom.

She'll already be dead or dying. Most likely dead. Zoom has no problem with slaughtering the X-Men because he's not here trying to make them "better" heroes. Flash could do the same. 
 
@daak1212 said:

 So pretty much those two will be fast as all hell to everybody else except each other because of the personal time stream manipulation. Now if Hope now has the powers of quicksilver+time stream manipulation she DEFINITELY to fast for anybody including Zoom because they are both on the same timestream except she now has Quicksilver's powers. After she caps him she now can cap Flash. See?

I can play this game too. Flash lends some speed to Zoom, and steals all of Hope's. Hope is now completely useless and is just another target for Zoom.
#38 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

Damn okay Im not making it clear. Okay Kiden Nixon and Velocidad have the same powers as Zoom.

No, they don't. They're all different from Zoom's, and pale in comparison.

@daak1212 said:

Okay so Hope now has there powers. Now with those powers she can now keep up with Zoom.

She'll already be dead or dying. Most likely dead. Zoom has no problem with slaughtering the X-Men because he's not here trying to make them "better" heroes. Flash could do the same.

@daak1212 said:

So pretty much those two will be fast as all hell to everybody else except each other because of the personal time stream manipulation. Now if Hope now has the powers of quicksilver+time stream manipulation she DEFINITELY to fast for anybody including Zoom because they are both on the same timestream except she now has Quicksilver's powers. After she caps him she now can cap Flash. See?

I can play this game too. Flash lends some speed to Zoom, and steals all of Hope's. Hope is now completely useless and is just another target for Zoom.

Oh crap I forgot he could lend speed, im not trying to troll so dont perceive me as some dick. Kiden and Velocidad both have the same powers it's true accept it. In fact they even tested Velocidad out to see if he really was a speedster and they found out no, he just slows down the time near him making him fast something like Zoom. Kiden also has the same ability with her "No-Time" she even said that should could spend months in "No-Time" when really only days have passed. This is reminiscent to Zoom saying he spends entire lifetimes when only a second passed.

Okay so here is a couple ways it plays out. Zoom lets Flash give him speed, okay but with that half of second or second Flash and Zoom are both dead because Hope entered "No-Time" and Velocidad's power making her really really fast and them slow. The next scenario would be that Zoom doesnt let Flash lend him speed so he speeds up his time stream and Hope does the same. They are now both on the same plane meaning they now run like average humans. The Quicksilver thing now comes into play in the form of being as they are on some weird new time stream she still can move faster because of the QS powers even in the time stream. Now after she dispatches of Zoom with whatever (I had her using Cannonballs field plus Quicksilvers speed to just obliterate Zoom) She will still be to fast for Flash remember Flash even with all of the speedsters (Flash family) Zoom was still a blur to him and if Hope is a blur to Zoom then...You see what I mean now?

If she really is that desperate she can alter her time and just use Kid Omega's powers and freeze time all together (Kid Omega was THAT strong friggin beast that kid)

#39 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@MagneticShockwave said:

Xavier can dead stop the both of them with a thought.

Before or after he gets one shotted? And Flashes can negate telepathy. Try again.

#40 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dex_Starr said:

@MagneticShockwave said:

Xavier can dead stop the both of them with a thought.

Before or after he gets one shotted? And Flashes can negate telepathy. Try again.

They do? Can I see a scan?

#41 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@daak1212 said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@MagneticShockwave said:

Xavier can dead stop the both of them with a thought.

Before or after he gets one shotted? And Flashes can negate telepathy. Try again.

They do? Can I see a scan?

I have to dig up scans but two instances I can think of are with Prometheus mentioning Wally's brain waves, and Barry in Blackest Night when Black Lantern Martian couldn't attack him telepathically.

#42 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dex_Starr said:

@daak1212 said:

@Dex_Starr said:

@MagneticShockwave said:

Xavier can dead stop the both of them with a thought.

Before or after he gets one shotted? And Flashes can negate telepathy. Try again.

They do? Can I see a scan?

I have to dig up scans but two instances I can think of are with Prometheus mentioning Wally's brain waves, and Barry in Blackest Night when Black Lantern Martian couldn't attack him telepathically.

I was thinking it was something like his brain moves too fast for a telepathic read but that was me speculating. Although DC telepaths are way weaker than Marvel telepaths so is it that he is to much for the aforementioned telepath or is it that they literally have 0% chance of reading Flashes?

#43 Posted by Illuminatus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio
@daak1212 said:

. Although DC telepaths are way weaker than Marvel telepaths 

I can't think of a single 616/1610 telepath that trumps J'onn.
#44 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Illuminatus said:

@daak1212 said:

. Although DC telepaths are way weaker than Marvel telepaths

I can't think of a single 616/1610 telepath that trumps J'onn.

X by far. Infact I think there was a battle concerning Xavier vs J'onn. He's pretty weak in Marvel verse

#45 Posted by Needlebay (1916 posts) - - Show Bio

DC's TP's FAR weaker than Marvel's? Another MYTH! Maxwell Lord just had one of the most powerful TP feats of them all, MM can hang with Xavier, Tangent Superman can hang with X-Man, Starro had control of 9 Galaxies, Captain Comet in his prime could hang with Emma, Saturn Girl could hang with Jean (though, not with the Phoenix force), etc...

#46 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay said:

DC's TP's FAR weaker than Marvel's? Another MYTH! Maxwell Lord just had one of the most powerful TP feats of them all, MM can hang with Xavier, Tangent Superman can hang with X-Man, Starro had control of 9 Galaxies, Captain Comet in his prime could hang with Emma, Saturn Girl could hang with Jean (though, not with the Phoenix force), etc...

So Jon can control a planet when he cant handle Joker or Black Adam. Maxwell Lord is in the medium upper echalon of Marvel Tps. Starro is something completly different.

#47 Posted by MagneticShockwave (1244 posts) - - Show Bio

Xavier hold out a lot too.... 
 
 
PIS 
 
 
The real Xavier potential is Onslaught.

#48 Posted by Needlebay (1916 posts) - - Show Bio

Max just erased the planet of his existence and then placed it back together (with a lot of blood, but under his own power. MM holds back plenty as well.

#49 Posted by daak1212 (7840 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay said:

Max just erased the planet of his existence and then placed it back together (with a lot of blood, but under his own power. MM holds back plenty as well.

Sentry did the same thing I think twice.

MM doesnt hold back alot he just sucks case in point Black Adam and Joker.

#50 Posted by Needlebay (1916 posts) - - Show Bio

MM doesn't suck, he made Joker sane for a bit and probed the entire planet. He stated he holds back a few times.