Chthon and Cyttorak has been described as all-powerful within their realms.. Dormammu is powerful within his, but still not yet on that level.. Zom has good feats but generally rather lack-luster..
1. Chthon - the Elder God and Primal Devil himself, Chthon has been described as the Great Shadow that creeps behind the feet of God.. he is perhaps the most feared being by all of Earth's mystics and religious sectors as they would go to all possible extents just to prevent his influence.. Eternity himself likened him to a cancer, that if left uncheck, all of reality will fall before him in a blink of a eye and it took the combined effort of Oshtur, Set and Gaea to banish him and prevent him from corrupting the very fabric of magic itself.. the Vishanti created the seat of the Sorcerer Supreme to battle his threats and Gaea, Mother to all Godly Pantheons has erected magical barriers to prevent him from returning.. Chthon possesses unimaginably vast mystic powers, so vast in-fact that it is the very reason that prevents him from leaving his realm for no inter-dimensional rift is big enough to contain his full essence.. the true testament to his powers so far was when Wanda Maximoff, the Scarlet Witch (whom he blessed with a fraction of his powers when she was born, a power known as Chaos Magic) destroyed and re-created reality itself.. she casted her spell over billions upon billions of souls, world and dimensions.. permanently shifting all possible futures of the entire Marvel Omniverse, a feat nearly unprecedented even by cosmic entities..
2. Cyttorak - a mystical being worshiped as both a deity and a demon, he is responsible and the source of power for the titanic Juggernaut.. he is said to possess vast mystical powers and most sorcerers invoke and seek his aid.. he is also capable of created new life-forms, as he once created elves simply so he could have somebody to worship and adore him..
3. Zom - a demonic creature with vast mystical powers dwarfing those of any sorcerer such as Doctor Strange and Umar but apparently weaker that most abstract entities such as the Living Tribunal..
4. Dormammu - the lord of the Dark Dimension.. being composed of pure mystical energy, he apparently possess more raw power than any sorcerer.. but sadly at-most, he can be considered only equal to that of Odin or Zeus, Godheads of Earth's Pantheons..
Has Cytorrak ever even been seen outside the Crimson Cosmos?
Yes, during War of the Seven Spheres. He also entered his tenticles into the subspaces of the multiverse to grab Galactus' ship.
Scans.
You've seen this scan before, don't deny it.
I thought it all happened in his realm. Now, how does it change anything for this thread? Cyttorak isn't in his domain in this thread, so he can't do it here.
Has Cytorrak ever even been seen outside the Crimson Cosmos?
Yes, during War of the Seven Spheres. He also entered his tenticles into the subspaces of the multiverse to grab Galactus' ship.
Scans.
You've seen this scan before, don't deny it.
I thought it all happened in his realm. Now, how does it change anything for this thread? Cyttorak isn't in his domain in this thread, so he can't do it here.
That's not in his realm. He entered through the multiverse to divert Strange from helping Galactus in his mission just so that he can test Dr. Strange and the Juggernaut of being worthy to spread his fame across their lesser spheres. This was during and between the Infinity and Seven Sphere War.
That's not in his realm. He entered through the multiverse to divert Strange from helping Galactus in his mission just so that he can test Dr. Strange and the Juggernaut of being worthy to spread his fame across their lesser spheres. This was during and between the Infinity and Seven Sphere War.
Ergo he affected Universe, from his own realm. Here he isn't present in his realm, so this feat doesn't count.
4,090 views only 16 posts and only 1 scan(0 working scans) I think it's safe to say that not a lot of users know a lot about these characters or have a lot of feats or scans to back it up, especially since most of these characters have never actually came into direct contact with each other so it pretty much all has to be done through power scaling.
Well CHthon is arguably the most powerful of the Elder Gods and ELder demons he's brothers and sisters with, and his Brother Set is a confirmed multiversal entity, and his sister Gaea is confirmed the oldest living being in the multiverse, and is far more powerful than Dormammu, but I agree most of what Chthon has is mainly off statements that he should be far more powerful. Also WHen Chthon had possession over quicksilver which wasn't anywhere near all of his power, he was able to forcibly banish asgard from the earth and stop any of the asgardians from travelling back there including Odinforce Thor and loki, which is something Dormammu should not be able to do. ZOm has only a handful of appearances and not that many feats either, Dormammu has the most feats but is arguably the weakest. Also you said Chthon and Cytorrak were too high on my list and then put Cytorrak in exactly the same position.....
@youmessinwithme: Well CHthon is arguably the most powerful of the Elder Gods and ELder demons he's brothers and sisters with, and his Brother Set is a confirmed multiversal entity, and his sister Gaea is confirmed the oldest living being in the multiverse, and is far more powerful than Dormammu, but I agree most of what Chthon has is mainly off statements that he should be far more powerful. Also WHen Chthon had possession over quicksilver which wasn't anywhere near all of his power, he was able to forcibly banish asgard from the earth and stop any of the asgardians from travelling back there including Odinforce Thor and loki, which is something Dormammu should not be able to do. ZOm has only a handful of appearances and not that many feats either, Dormammu has the most feats but is arguably the weakest. Also you said Chthon and Cytorrak were too high on my list and then put Cytorrak in exactly the same position.....
I don't know why Gaea would be more powerful than Dormammu when she lost to a weakened Dormmy and had to resort to Clea and Stephen's power to escape from him. They're as much as multiversal as beings like Slorith and Giraud, who lost to the Dread One in the past. Why Dormammu should not be able to do that? All of the beings in Asgard are not as powerful as him, and Dormmy has far better feats then doing that. Tyrant only has a few appearances and achievements, but this doesn't speak of his power and Zom is the same thing. He's far more consistent than Chthon and has the feats/hype to suggest so. I said that list it's probably the most accurate, but this is only related to your one if I'm truly going to be sincere. Cyttorak like all the characters here is difficult to gauge and might be or not in the second place depending on the circumstances.
Well CHthon is arguably the most powerful of the Elder Gods and ELder demons he's brothers and sisters with, and his Brother Set is a confirmed multiversal entity, and his sister Gaea is confirmed the oldest living being in the multiverse, and is far more powerful than Dormammu, but I agree most of what Chthon has is mainly off statements that he should be far more powerful. Also WHen Chthon had possession over quicksilver which wasn't anywhere near all of his power, he was able to forcibly banish asgard from the earth and stop any of the asgardians from travelling back there including Odinforce Thor and loki, which is something Dormammu should not be able to do. ZOm has only a handful of appearances and not that many feats either, Dormammu has the most feats but is arguably the weakest. Also you said Chthon and Cytorrak were too high on my list and then put Cytorrak in exactly the same position.....
Chthon's rank as an Elder God is higher than the other character's, but he has no feats none of them couldn't have done easily.
he was able to forcibly banish asgard from the earth and stop any of the asgardians from travelling back
He forced a replicant of Asgardback. Which was small enough to float on top of a field in Broxton. It's not that impressive of a feat. Dormammu should definitely be able to do the same
Gaea is confirmed the oldest living being in the multiverse, and is far more powerful than Dormammu
Dormammu has imprisoned Gaea in the past
Zom has only a handful of appearances and not that many feats either
The feats he does have involve being too powerful for Eternity and Classic Dr. Strange to put down, with only the Living Tribunal being able to beat him. How come his limited showings are weighed less than Chthon's, whose best showing involved him just hassling the people of Earth with plagues? Zom has far and away the best feats of anyone here, regardless of quantity.
Dormammu has the most feats but is arguably the weakest
Dormammu's feats involve him creating beings like Satannish from his own will, as well as going up against Eternity, Elder Gods, and Classic Dr. Strange on a regular basis. How does that equate him being the weakest here?
If you were ranking purely on cosmic hierarchy then I could understand why you would put Chthon as #1 because he's an Elder God, but if this is by feats he has the worst showings here.
@youmessinwithme: Well CHthon is arguably the most powerful of the Elder Gods and ELder demons he's brothers and sisters with, and his Brother Set is a confirmed multiversal entity, and his sister Gaea is confirmed the oldest living being in the multiverse, and is far more powerful than Dormammu, but I agree most of what Chthon has is mainly off statements that he should be far more powerful. Also WHen Chthon had possession over quicksilver which wasn't anywhere near all of his power, he was able to forcibly banish asgard from the earth and stop any of the asgardians from travelling back there including Odinforce Thor and loki, which is something Dormammu should not be able to do. ZOm has only a handful of appearances and not that many feats either, Dormammu has the most feats but is arguably the weakest. Also you said Chthon and Cytorrak were too high on my list and then put Cytorrak in exactly the same position.....
I don't know why Gaea would be more powerful than Dormammu when she lost to a weakened Dormmy and had to resort to Clea and Stephen's power to escape from him. They're as much as multiversal as beings like Slorith and Giraud, who lost to the Dread One in the past. Why Dormammu should not be able to do that? All of the beings in Asgard are not as powerful as him, and Dormmy has far better feats then doing that. Tyrant only has a few appearances and achievements, but this doesn't speak of his power and Zom is the same thing. He's far more consistent than Chthon and has the feats/hype to suggest so. I said that list it's probably the most accurate, but this is only related to your one if I'm truly going to be sincere. Cyttorak like all the characters here is difficult to gauge and might be or not in the second place depending on the circumstances.
Umm Dormammu captured her to steal her power which brought him to an entirely different level, once she got free she banished him pretty much without effort too my knowledge he was not weakened. Also no Set is actually multiversal and is so large a whole universe exists inside him. Feats for Dormammu that put him above that?? has been compared to Odin in the past as equals. Has been compared to Loki by Odin in the past, has lost to Loki, has fought Thor with aid from his sister Umar and didn't nearly outmatch Thor as much as Chton's brother Set did. Nothing their suggests he can banish skyfather's and their kingdoms at will, and keep them from coming back, especially at only a fraction of his powers.
Well CHthon is arguably the most powerful of the Elder Gods and ELder demons he's brothers and sisters with, and his Brother Set is a confirmed multiversal entity, and his sister Gaea is confirmed the oldest living being in the multiverse, and is far more powerful than Dormammu, but I agree most of what Chthon has is mainly off statements that he should be far more powerful. Also WHen Chthon had possession over quicksilver which wasn't anywhere near all of his power, he was able to forcibly banish asgard from the earth and stop any of the asgardians from travelling back there including Odinforce Thor and loki, which is something Dormammu should not be able to do. ZOm has only a handful of appearances and not that many feats either, Dormammu has the most feats but is arguably the weakest. Also you said Chthon and Cytorrak were too high on my list and then put Cytorrak in exactly the same position.....
Chthon's rank as an Elder God is higher than the other character's, but he has no feats none of them couldn't have done easily.
he was able to forcibly banish asgard from the earth and stop any of the asgardians from travelling back
He forced a replicant of Asgardback. Which was small enough to float on top of a field in Broxton. It's not that impressive of a feat. Dormammu should definitely be able to do the same
Gaea is confirmed the oldest living being in the multiverse, and is far more powerful than Dormammu
Dormammu has imprisoned Gaea in the past
Zom has only a handful of appearances and not that many feats either
The feats he does have involve being too powerful for Eternity and Classic Dr. Strange to put down, with only the Living Tribunal being able to beat him. How come his limited showings are weighed less than Chthon's, whose best showing involved him just hassling the people of Earth with plagues? Zom has far and away the best feats of anyone here, regardless of quantity.
Dormammu has the most feats but is arguably the weakest
Dormammu's feats involve him creating beings like Satannish from his own will, as well as going up against Eternity, Elder Gods, and Classic Dr. Strange on a regular basis. How does that equate him being the weakest here?
If you were ranking purely on cosmic hierarchy then I could understand why you would put Chthon as #1 because he's an Elder God, but if this is by feats he has the worst showings here.
Okay that is the kingdom of asgard, and it's not so much the fact that he removed the kingdom and all it's super powerful beings to a different dimension, it's that he was able to stop all of them from coming back, something by Dormammu's comparisons with Loki, and Odin he should not be able to do to Odinforce Thor and Loki as well as all the rest of asgard. You can say Dormammu should be able to do that, but I see nothing to back it up. ALso like I said that was done with only a fraction of the Chthon's power.
Could be mistaken but pretty sure He imprisons Gaea to steal her powers which vastly increases his own, and once she's freed she banishes him without any trouble, been a long time though.
Umm Dormammu captured her to steal her power which brought him to an entirely different level, once she got free she banished him pretty much without effort too my knowledge he was not weakened. Also no Set is actually multiversal and is so large a whole universe exists inside him. Feats for Dormammu that put him above that?? has been compared to Odin in the past as equals. Has been compared to Loki by Odin in the past, has lost to Loki, has fought Thor with aid from his sister Umar and didn't nearly outmatch Thor as much as Chton's brother Set did. Nothing their suggests he can banish skyfather's and their kingdoms at will, and keep them from coming back, especially at only a fraction of his powers.
He didn't steal her power nor was amped by it( Even if was then I don't see why this change defeating her previously to that). Gaea got free by Clea's help and had to use all the power from the Earth's beings to banish him and Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme#2 actually covered the whole thing of Dormammu not being fully manifested:
He fought and destroyed Eternity's essence, who was been recently put to be the very Omniverse itself and defeated Slorioth( Who's bigger than universes per LT's own words). I already covered the whole thing about Dormammu and Odin in the past:
I was going to address this before, but I forgot to do that...This statement isn't true, in fact, multiple things put Dormammu above such level:
Let's take Hellcat#02 for example:
Mephisto explicitly states that Dormammu could bring down both Asgard and Olympus as a whole( Since Mephy said that Dormammu could get all their family killed) and while there isn't much reason to listen to the ''Prince of Lies'' himself, I say it's reasonable to listen to Hela and Pluto:
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They were convinced to take part in the plan of freezing Hades to defeat Dormammu, which shows to us that both of them ended up agreeing with Mephisto's statement of how dangerous Dormmy can be. Another thing, this was Dormammu during/around the time of his banishment and exile.
We've been told by Clea during Doctor Strange, Sorcerer Supreme Annual#4 that Dormammu fought against Slorioth; The Trinity of Ashes and Fatalis during The War of the Seven Spheres:
All of them were major players in the war and Dormammu defeated them all since The Dark Dimension was still in his possession after all this:
Why did I mention this?:
The War of the Seven Spheres is referenced numerous times as the biggest and most important mystical event between the greatest mystical entities out there and I haven't seen any ''Skyfathers'' such as Odin and/or Zeus being present, even though they're mystical beings and use magic as their power and don't come at me saying that Odin/Zeus doesn't only use magic to be in there......Dormammu also has access to cosmic powers per his own admission and so have Pura-Shumatra and other beings in the battle.
Moreover, Dormammu's creation( Satannish) is even part of the War too:
Speaking of Satannish...He also proves Dormammu's superiority over someone like Odin. Don't you believe in me?
Let's take a look at Avengers#61, then:
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As you can see above, even one crystal containing a fraction of Satannish's might was enough to overpower both Surtur and Ymir to teleport them and then hit each other. Satannish's power was also used in ''The Spell of the Fire and Ice'' to free the duo from a prison so powerful that they couldn't escape by themselves:
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I've debated many times against other users that such spell is directly connected to the power of the caster, so it's not anyone who can free the two.
Doctor Strange's words let very clear that was thanks to Satannish's might that both were freed and by it can the spell be reversed( This is why Strange looked up for something with the same amount of power used by Satannish to cast the spell):
The SoS even regard Satannish as more powerful and they were the ones responsible for freeing Surtur and Ymir. Like....The SoS basically don't even care/fear them, but they all pee in the presence of Satannish:
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Even go as far to regard Satannish as the most powerful mystic entity( NOTE: Lord Nekron was actually part of the SoS if anyone didn't know):
You can/may argue that Odin is more powerful than them, but I'm not talking about Dormammu to begin with....I'm talking about Satannish, whose power is so laughable below his creator that it's not even funny.
Dormammu himself was portrayed to be above Surtur with the Twilight Sword during Magik's series.
Surtur got destroyed by Archenemy even while inside of his realm and with the sword, as well his troops.
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While Dormammu was able to hold an entire flank against the same enemy alone during Magik#04:
Surtur also had his troops if you want to say that was because of the Mindless Ones.
Dormammu did more than all the other Lords of the Splinter-Reams together( Even more than Surtur). They had a few powerful beings in there and some were even Hell-Lords and Fear Lords:
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Dormammu's power was also used by Magik to help defeat Archenemy:
And she did:
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Vitchen and Mephisto's power are inconsequent as it's pretty well stabilized to be well below both Magik and Dormammu's one. In the end, Dormmy and Magik were also portrayed as equals during that storyline:
So Dormammu's power had a big part in the defeat of Archenemy, whose power dwarfed all the other Lords of the Splinter-Realms together. Planning to post that quote of Dormammu claiming to be Zeus and Odin's equal won't help either when there's another interpretation ignored by many.
Dormammu never said anything about power and could very well mean status given the events during Thor Annual#9:
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Odin represents order and Dormammu represents chaos, so could very well be status. Heck, Dormammu even made a reference to the so-called ''Lords of Order'' during the same comic:
It's pretty clear where Dormammu stands in power and many Handbooks are misinterpreted as none ever claimed about Odin and Surtur's powers rivaling Dormammu( Just that is unknown where it stands in relation to each other). Many other things are without of context and still users believe in them, like that claim of Dormammu mentioning how Loki's evil powers nearly rivaling it's own.
Which I debunked, btw:
You need to know Steve Englehart's language, which is full of dramatic expressions to understand better what Dormammu said. Reading the story, it's very clear that Dormammu was actually talking about how Loki is as almost as evil as him( His capacity to evil deeds) and not magic or raw power.
The story was clear about who is more powerful than who.
Loki had to wait until Dormammu didn't care about him anymore and just then attacked Dormy while trying to steal the Evil Eye, which lead to a physical assault( I still see Dormammu caring more to merge the dimensions with the Evil Eye than Loki's assault on him.....And Dormy is not using any magic). This all happened in an unknown time frame.
You also forgot to post the pages where Loki's lesser mind couldn't comprehend Dormammu's power:
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And the ignoring the whole thing that happened during Thor#232-234 when Loki only accomplished his feats because of Dormammu's powers(Which wouldn't be possible if they were equal):
Loki himself acknowledge Dormammu's powers as everything:
And his very plan only worked because of this powers:
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This gave Loki a power boost like he never felt before by his own admission. A power boost that enabled him to defeat almost every hero and his brother Thor to a level that the same wondered where Loki gained such power. A power boost that would make him invincible and conquer both Asgard and the Earth.
Did you even read the stories? Loki took months to control a fraction of Dormammu's powers by unknown methods and was going to conquer Marvel Earth(After Loki stomped the heroes) by using a portion of Dormammu's powers. When Loki started losing that powers then Thor was able to defeat him:
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This shows a big gap between them and still don't see a counter to Loki becoming crazy for absorbing Dormammu's powers.
Anyway, Dormammu is a bit more powerful than your everyday skyfathers and many things prove this.
He's never been compared to Odin by Loki(Only that Odin speaks of Dormammu) and neither lost to him( Something I proved in the post above). Umar and Dormammu never fought against Thor together...Only Umar did and was just an illusion during Thor Annual#9. Dormammu one-shotted and killed Thor during Amazing Spider-Man#58, btw. I think defeating beings far more powerful than skyfathers while weakened seems to suggest that Dormammu can indeed to do and it's not like the Dread One has other feats superior than doing this.
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