Zeus(marvel) VS Raiden(MK)

Zeus wins. Epic curbstomp

People are still entertaining Oni Lord, I thought he was long gone after that time I asked him to go feat for feat with me and then he suddenly disappeared.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@isaac_clarke said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@isaac_clarke:

1) The correct answer to who would win out of IF and Zeus if Zeus was taken down a couple notches is IF.

Considering Iron Fist has punched out trains before and can heal from bullet wounds on the spot - Zeus would be at a little disadvantage at say Spiderman level. But regardless Zeus isn't Spiderman - he's a Greek God that drops mountains on monsters for the hell of it.

And yes, IF would take a lot of the MK cast, just like the majority of the people that IF can beat in Marvel, so too could Liu Kang, or Kung Lao, or Subzero. MK fights are judged more by match-ups and skill rather than power and durability. That is the point we are dancing around, and one of the reasons MK threads have trouble; their skill carries no weight.

I agree - Iron Fist can probably demolish most of the Mortal Kombat cast at once given his vast speed and striking power advantage on them; however that isn't at all true in Marvel - way too many beings beyond street level that can handle him. Way too many street levelers can handily send those three packing - so I disagree.

It doesn't help someone like Dare Devil out-skills them. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/daredevil-vs-sub-zero-pre-deadly-alliance/549115/?page=9

2) Off-panel vs On-panel. Just because you aren't as impressed with off-panel/screen feats as you are with on-panel feats, doesn't mean they should be counted any less when looking at the 2 feats objectively. Zeus out punching hulk or Thor and threatening a city wide area, to me isn't more impressive than Shinnok vs Raiden's fight having a global impact off-panel. While it'd be great to see it, it isn't necessary in order to understand the magnitude of the feat.
I guess all those SWEU feats should be discounted too...

The problem is the feat itself isn't at all impressive to begin with - it being off panel and without any real context outside taking a long time isn't at all "wow!" The emphasis you're putting on a lousy feat isn't worth it.

5) I've seen/read those scans, and yes they are impressive, but the problem with them is (see # 1) they only show Zeus's strength. At best in those scans Zeus displays peak street-level speeds (though I don't doubt he can go faster), level 6 durability, and his fighting skill seems on par with his power grid, level 4. Raiden definitely moves much faster than Hulk, has much more skill in combat, and can still hit pretty hard.
Matching up the fighter in terms of skill, speed, power, etc., the fight becomes closer than most will admit. In Raiden, Zeus would find an opponent who can dodge extremely well and counter hit with the best of them.

The Hulk's terms were "less talking" - so Zeus promptly physically beat the tar out of to the point he's left a lasting effect of weakening him for a time. It's tough to argue Raiden moves faster than the Hulk when slow bricks like Shao Kahn consistently give him a very hard time. Sure Raiden can hit hard - just not anywhere close to Hulk hard - even Colossus hard would be too generous given what showings he has.

Doubt it - but again Zeus is Zeus, not some other character with a completely different power set / stats.

You, like most people on CV, are trying to compare apples to oranges, but you either don't know, or don't care, that they are different. The Raiden who lost to the Deadly Alliance wasn't the same Raiden who fought Shinnok before MK1. To say that Raiden, or any of the other Gods, have trouble with mortals is miss-representative of the characters as a whole. MK has rules that are clear and ever present, and they are baked into the characters and canon fully. Just because you don't like/agree/understand the concept, doesn't mean you can/should write the characters off as weak.
I don't think we will ever fully agree on this topic, but for the most part I understand where you are coming from with all your points, and I hope you are understanding my points as well; that is all anyone can really ask.

Then they should go get much better feats - rather than receive some really poor loses to people they are supposedly infinitely more powerful than. I get you're passionate about MK - but they're not sporting much for showings that are particularly impressive compared to even lower end Skyfathers like Zeus.

1) The point was that under the same stipulations, Zeus would fair the same as, if not much worse than, the MK Gods. Feats are feats, I get it, but this continuous harping on the MK characters, and the consistent and constant misrepresentation of them gets old. Fact is pound for pound, MK characters hold their own.

But then again, when MK is involved the conversation goes like this:

MK character 'A' beat MK God 'C'? How? Regardless, MK God 'C' must suck cause MK character 'A' sucks anyway.

MK is deemed the looser before the debate begins.

You think someone like DD outclasses most MK characters? That is up for debate...just like the thread you linked to was/is. In 1v1 combat with an MK character many of the Marvel/DC street-level to low/mid meta-human level fighters get smoked. But most can't admit it to themselves.

2) As I said before, you are entitled to you opinion, but unimpressive that Shinnok held off multiple "Sky-father" level beings? Seems more like you are just closing your ears and eyes and sticking with what you are comfortable with.

5) Hulk's terms were Mortal Combat, where yeah...he lost. And it isn't hard at all to see that Raiden fights at a speed higher than Hulk. Flight, teleportation, moves and strikes like lightning; Raiden is MUCH faster than Hulk, but yeah, you are right, the question is whether or not Raiden could hit Zeus hard enough. That IDK, but I do know he'll hit him...A LOT.

...they should go get much better feats - rather than receive some really poor loses to people they are supposedly infinitely more powerful than.

Lol! Ok. Even after I pointed it out in my previous post, which you quoted, you still decide to negate the context in which said losses occurred and then pass it off as a consistent bar of their ability. I guess that is fine...up until it happens to a Marvel or DC scan.

Let me post a scan of Hulk being taken down by Cap or SM; or the Avengers (which Zeus took out) being beaten by Taskmaster. "Low showing, context, PIS"; that is all you'll hear. Context is everything, it even says that in the Battle forum's sticky-ed rules. But yeah...whatever, I entered this debate with full knowledge on what I was going to have to deal with.

Can you name me one character outside of the Elder Gods and Primary Gods that would smoke Daredevil.

@isaac_clarke: Well then, who's the being above the Elder Gods and is he truly omnipotent?

@nick_hero22: Taven

@onilordasmodeus said:

@nick_hero22: Taven

Without time manipulation Daredevil would defeat him, but if Taven has all of his abilities he would win (He's a Demi-God)

@ShootingNova said:

@isaac_clarke: Well then, who's the being above the Elder Gods and is he truly omnipotent?

The closest thing to a God in MK from my perspective is the guy the Elder Gods created the realms from.

@onilordasmodeus said:

1) The point was that under the same stipulations, Zeus would fair the same as, if not much worse than, the MK Gods. Feats are feats, I get it, but this continuous harping on the MK characters, and the consistent and constant misrepresentation of them gets old. Fact is pound for pound, MK characters hold their own.
But then again, when MK is involved the conversation goes like this:
MK character 'A' beat MK God 'C'? How? Regardless, MK God 'C' must suck cause MK character 'A' sucks anyway.
MK is deemed the looser before the debate begins.
You think someone like DD outclasses most MK characters? That is up for debate...just like the thread you linked to was/is. In 1v1 combat with an MK character many of the Marvel/DC street-level to low/mid meta-human level fighters get smoked. But most can't admit it to themselves.

These "same stipulations" aren't something that exists for said character. This whole concept of "what if Zeus wasn't Zeus" doesn't matter here or particular prove any points that are relevant to this thread. If Mortal Kombat characters had better feats - this constant opinion you insist is the case that they lose as soon as the thread is created wouldn't be an issue.

Too generic of a claim for me to agree with.

2) As I said before, you are entitled to you opinion, but unimpressive that Shinnok held off multiple "Sky-father" level beings? Seems more like you are just closing your ears and eyes and sticking with what you are comfortable with.

A vague reference Raiden makes about an off panel fight between him and Shinnok that wiped out an ancient civilization and threatened Earth isn't impressive. Especially given the showings of "Skyfathers" more or less fighting a portion of themselves causing complete galactic chaos (Odin vs Infinity). If Odin alone is putting up a more impressive showing against himself - what does that say about the 'Skyfather' level beings in MK?

It's not a particular issue of it just being off screen / off panel here either. Take Star Wars as you referenced - something is actually happening on that page most of the time, rather than reference vague happenings of the past. That's kind of important - context, information that tells us the actual details of what happened that flesh out the feat to make it more than just something Raiden said.

5) Hulk's terms were Mortal Combat, where yeah...he lost. And it isn't hard at all to see that Raiden fights at a speed higher than Hulk. Flight, teleportation, moves and strikes like lightning; Raiden is MUCH faster than Hulk, but yeah, you are right, the question is whether or not Raiden could hit Zeus hard enough. That IDK, but I do know he'll hit him...A LOT.

All that and a slow brick like Shao Kahn can sludge hammer consistently down. Raiden sporting Night Crawler BAMF! teleportation speed - instead it itself isn't particular fast. Neither is his flight or his "moves and strikes like lightning." Just saying he is "much" faster than the Hulk - when people arguably slower than the Hulk can consistently pound on him doesn't really help him in a debate.

He can zap Zeus or punch Zeus all day - honestly without something more tangible to say he could do anything worthwhile to Zeus it's going to be a fight where Zeus sits there confused at this tiny gnat attempting to hurt him. The reason this guy is a skyfather is his superiority to many of these other gods behind him.

Lol! Ok. Even after I pointed it out in my previous post, which you quoted, you still decide to negate the context in which said losses occurredand then pass it off as a consistent bar of their ability.I guess that is fine...up until it happens to a Marvel or DC scan.
Let me post a scan of Hulk being taken down by Cap or SM; or the Avengers (which Zeus took out) being beaten by Taskmaster. "Low showing, context, PIS"; that is all you'll hear. Context is everything, it even says that in the Battle forum's sticky-ed rules. But yeah...whatever, I entered this debate with full knowledge on what I was going to have to deal with.

Maybe that full knowledge could start bringing up showings that are actually going to give someone like Shinnok a win on someone like Zeus - rather than this constant reference to how victimized Mortal Kombat characters are on these forums; because I really couldn't care less.

@isaac_clarke: I meant the One Being.

@ShootingNova said:

@isaac_clarke: I meant the One Being.

Yeah I completely misread what you said. I thought it was a question, sorry about that.

@isaac_clarke: It's cool.

@isaac_clarke said:

@ShootingNova said:

@isaac_clarke: Well then, who's the being above the Elder Gods and is he truly omnipotent?

The closest thing to a God in MK from my perspective is the guy the Elder Gods created the realms from.

@onilordasmodeus said:

1) The point was that under the same stipulations, Zeus would fair the same as, if not much worse than, the MK Gods. Feats are feats, I get it, but this continuous harping on the MK characters, and the consistent and constant misrepresentation of them gets old. Fact is pound for pound, MK characters hold their own.
But then again, when MK is involved the conversation goes like this:
MK character 'A' beat MK God 'C'? How? Regardless, MK God 'C' must suck cause MK character 'A' sucks anyway.
MK is deemed the looser before the debate begins.
You think someone like DD outclasses most MK characters? That is up for debate...just like the thread you linked to was/is. In 1v1 combat with an MK character many of the Marvel/DC street-level to low/mid meta-human level fighters get smoked. But most can't admit it to themselves.

These "same stipulations" aren't something that exists for said character. This whole concept of "what if Zeus wasn't Zeus" doesn't matter here or particular prove any points that are relevant to this thread. If Mortal Kombat characters had better feats - this constant opinion you insist is the case that they lose as soon as the thread is created wouldn't be an issue.

Too generic of a claim for me to agree with.

2) As I said before, you are entitled to you opinion, but unimpressive that Shinnok held off multiple "Sky-father" level beings? Seems more like you are just closing your ears and eyes and sticking with what you are comfortable with.

A vague reference Raiden makes about an off panel fight between him and Shinnok that wiped out an ancient civilization and threatened Earth isn't impressive. Especially given the showings of "Skyfathers" more or less fighting a portion of themselves causing complete galactic chaos (Odin vs Infinity). If Odin alone is putting up a more impressive showing against himself - what does that say about the 'Skyfather' level beings in MK?

It's not a particular issue of it just being off screen / off panel here either. Take Star Wars as you referenced - something is actually happening on that page most of the time, rather than reference vague happenings of the past. That's kind of important - context, information that tells us the actual details of what happened that flesh out the feat to make it more than just something Raiden said.

5) Hulk's terms were Mortal Combat, where yeah...he lost. And it isn't hard at all to see that Raiden fights at a speed higher than Hulk. Flight, teleportation, moves and strikes like lightning; Raiden is MUCH faster than Hulk, but yeah, you are right, the question is whether or not Raiden could hit Zeus hard enough. That IDK, but I do know he'll hit him...A LOT.

All that and a slow brick like Shao Kahn can sludge hammer consistently down. Raiden sporting Night Crawler BAMF! teleportation speed - instead it itself isn't particular fast. Neither is his flight or his "moves and strikes like lightning." Just saying he is "much" faster than the Hulk - when people arguably slower than the Hulk can consistently pound on him doesn't really help him in a debate.

He can zap Zeus or punch Zeus all day - honestly without something more tangible to say he could do anything worthwhile to Zeus it's going to be a fight where Zeus sits there confused at this tiny gnat attempting to hurt him. The reason this guy is a skyfather is his superiority to many of these other gods behind him.

Lol! Ok. Even after I pointed it out in my previous post, which you quoted, you still decide to negate the context in which said losses occurred and then pass it off as a consistent bar of their ability. I guess that is fine...up until it happens to a Marvel or DC scan.
Let me post a scan of Hulk being taken down by Cap or SM; or the Avengers (which Zeus took out) being beaten by Taskmaster. "Low showing, context, PIS"; that is all you'll hear. Context is everything, it even says that in the Battle forum's sticky-ed rules. But yeah...whatever, I entered this debate with full knowledge on what I was going to have to deal with.

Maybe that full knowledge could start bringing up showings that are actually going to give someone like Shinnok a win on someone like Zeus - rather than this constant reference to how victimized Mortal Kombat characters are on these forums; because I really couldn't care less.

1) The "stipulations" I was talking about, while they don't exist in Marvel, are clear in MK and put context around why things are the way they are. Looking at MK and Marvel objectively, you can clearly see that while many Marvel character out class MK in terms of strength and durability, MK outclass many Marvel characters in terms of cunning, skill, and fighting ability. The fact that this this true, adds to the match-up.

2) You are referring only to the MK4 intro when Raiden was speaking. I am taking into account the MK: Mythologies story, that intro, the video intro of MKM, various MK bios, and the comic. The whole story, while still semi-vague, isn't just coming from that one source.

5) Sorry, Kahn is faster than the Hulk as well, and is much more versatile. Your view of MK characters is too limited. Kahn doesn't just employ punches, kicks, and hammer blows. When Kahn fights he has full range of his magic attacks which consist of TK, energy shields, and energy drains. Besides those Kahn can propel himself forward, like in the games, and has the strength to break a man with one punch. While his physical strength is far below Hulk's, his fighting ability and intellect is much higher, and all together he is a very powerful opponent.

From all that I gather from you, you don't see Raiden or Shinnok as a God (though they clearly are), and you compare them to gnats because...well because. Seems the debate was over before we began as you mind was made up.

Without the intervention of the Elder Gods, this is what happens. And that is without his amulet.

Gallery

Take note of the crater that was made by Fujin's fall, and realize that the creatures he was fighing are apparitions made from Shinnok's power. Shinnok created and sustains an entire race through his power.

The context in which he was beaten is very important.

I should add as well that the only reason I harp on the extrainious stipulations of the MKU so much is because most, if not all, people who write off MK, do it by saying Marvel/DC God 'A' can do everything MK God 'A' can do. Clearly that is not the case.

@FourthDeity said:

Zeus solos all of MK.

this

@onilordasmodeus said:

I should add as well that the only reason I harp on the extrainious stipulations of the MKU so much is because most, if not all, people who write off MK, do it by saying Marvel/DC God 'A' can do everything MK God 'A' can do. Clearly that is not the case.While definitive proof that Raiden could cave in Hulk's chest does not exist, there for he can't, when the shoe is on the other foot and a Marvel God is put up against say Liu Kang in fair and even Mortal Kombat, many Marvel/DC Gods (even Zeus), would fail.I'm looking at you Liu vs Superman/Superboy thread. Lol!This is very relevant to threads like this as the combatants bring in all their expereinces and feats into every fight. Pound for pound, fighters like Raiden or Shao Kahn can hold their own in every level of combat, low to high, by out thinking, out performing, out fighting and/or out musculing their opponents.

What in the hell? Are you aware that most gods in Marvel have physical stats that exceed majority of all characters along with having special traits and magical abilities as well. WOW

Liu Kang would be one-shotted by most high-end street levelers let alone a god.

Is this Elder God Raiden or Mortal version of Raiden?

If its mortal version then its definitly a mismatch in Zeuses favor.

If its Elder God version of Raiden then not sure....

@othus, no.

@fourth, nope. Once Zeus hits the Gods, he'll have trouble and the Elder Gods would kill Zeus or merely banish him back to wherever...

For this topic it's, Simple, Normal Raiden would most likely lose most likely, struggle against Zeus but would be interesting given what Raiden can do and the fact that he holds back a lot, but you figure normal "mortal form" Raiden would struggle.

Elder God Raiden however would destroy Zeus...period. LOL@ someone saying LK gets oneshotted by street levelers..no and what relevance does this have to this topic exactly? *sigh* these same topics always attract the same people, people who know MK and those who don't.

BTW, actually yeah... EG Raiden HAS to demote himself to mortal form because he's too godly powerful...but technically could just destroy whoever he wanted in that form. So NOT the same character as normal Raiden. Not even close..

So all those people few pages ago saying "there's no omnipotents on Zeus's level" WRONG! The Elder Gods ARE God of MKU and are omnipotent, and meaning the EG Raiden would destroy Zeus. As for this argument about Shinnok, that someone mentioned...first of all, Shinnok=Fallen Elder God and thus NOT an Elder God, he was demoted and de-powered by the Elder Gods years ago when they learned he was trying to betray and overthrow them, he failed...

Then he tried to take Earthrealm and failed again as Raiden defeated him in a war that raged for centuries, with Raiden defeating him and banishing him to Netherrealm...in the process Raiden's actions to defend Earthrealm from Shinnok winded up killing billions of people as he plunged the Earth into Centuries of Darkness...

@Vaeternus said:

@othus, no.

Simple, Normal Raiden would most likely lose to Zeus.

Elder God Raiden would destroy Zeus...

Based on?

@RudeBomberBoy01 said:

Based on the fact that you can't kill a Elder God and they literally created everything in MKU eons ago besides that Elder God Raiden is million times more powerful then normal Raiden, example of how powerful the Elder Gods are though they created every realm from the One Being's conscience many years ago...They are the God of MKU, but people on here don't know this because they don't know much about MK or are often stuck in "comic book fanboy mode".

That besides normal Raiden defeated Shinnok(who is a fallen Elder God but obviously not on par with an EG) being demoted for trying to overtake them years ago...Raiden defeated and banished Shinnok years ago while killing billions, putting Earth into Centuries of Darkness literally as his MK 4 intro states. As for the Elder Gods being just how powerful, they're ominipotent...the only threat to them ever was One Being years ago who they defeated, then made each realm from it's body & conscience...The One Being was going to take over the entire MKU, but Elder Gods prevented it...defeated it and thus created the realms of MKU we all know from it's body.

Yeah I'm not gonna bother with this one, I don't think there's anyone in here that can say anything I haven't already seen from that mkf40 guy or however you spell his name.

Sorry to bother you.

Zeus barely engages in fights he sits on mount olympus knocking back food all day hes boring and dull. Raiden is always in the midst of action
  

IZZR, just want to point out you know that's a parody right? ^ lol technically Raiden could sit back but chooses to get involved, he can't fight technically unless he's challenged and in his Elder omnipotent form, he doesn't fight at all or doesn't have to I should say.

@RudeBomberBoy01 said:

Yeah I'm not gonna bother with this one, I don't think there's anyone in here that can say anything I haven't already seen from that mkf40 guy or however you spell his name.

Sorry to bother you.

I am MKF30(different name) lol but I tend to avoid these topics now days, because of reasons like this(people bump them to start wars) I however am not the only person on here who follows MK(thank god) omin, lordraiden, terminator, lanternprime, bloodgod, etc are a few others who do so I've noticed.

There are people who think the EG Raiden and normal Raiden are the same character...so when I read that I just don't even want to bother.

Don't get me wrong, I follow comics too. More so DC then Marvel but am familiar, there are just people on here who see "video game vs. comic character" and always vote comic character without even being aware of what the opposition can do.

@Vaeternus:

I know there's a big difference between the different Raidens, but I just don't see him beating a high Sky father.

There are some video game characters who could give Sentry level characters a good fight.... Asura is an example.

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Vaeternus: I figured you were still here somewhere. didn't realize this was you though. One of these days we've gotta get a few MK9 matches in. Or are you a PSN guy...

Hey what's up man? I'm a Xbox guy, you play on PSN or Xbox? Yeah, I lurk around still lol. @RudeBomberBoy01 said:

@Vaeternus:

I know there's a big difference between the different Raidens, but I just don't see him beating a high Sky father.

There are some video game characters who could give Sentry level characters a good fight.... Asura is an example.

That's why I wanted to point out that they're two entirely different characters because of their ranks. The Normal Raiden would most likely struggle and lose, however the Elder God Raiden is equal to the other Elder Gods who created the entire MKU eons ago...I doubt even a Sky father can take on a God of another Universe that's never been defeated. They defeated the One Being who compromised all known reality yet the Elder Gods defeated it...and created the worlds/realms in MK out of it's body...that's pretty damn powerful if you ask me lol.

In Video Games, yeah I'd say Elder Gods, Asura, Bayonetta to name a few off hand are up there in terms of power. Problem that some people have are "feats" but while they don't have as many as comic characters, their feats are just as impressive if not more so such as EG's and Asura's namely. Bayonetta was more or less a powerful goddess like character. Usually with video games it's either human like characters with some powers, or uber godly characters.

@Vaeternus: Agreed 100%

Thats what I was saying the mortal raiden would probably lose, but the elder god version of Raiden.. I aint to sure about... Elder Gods and like Gods almost, they cant die or get hurt or anything. they're spiritual beings and cannot be seen...

@TERMINATORXX said:

@Vaeternus: Agreed 100%

Thats what I was saying the mortal raiden would probably lose, but the elder god version of Raiden.. I aint to sure about... Elder Gods and like Gods almost, they cant die or get hurt or anything. they're spiritual beings and cannot be seen...

Exactly! They ARE the God of MKU, created everything, defeated the One Being(which is more or less the Devil of MKU if you think about it) having a dark influence on everything...they just don't want to get involved half the time or don't need to lol. They're more neutral Godly, powerful, omnipotent deities but can take any shape or form they choose. Your original post raises a good point.

@Hulkstrongerthan1 said:

Who will win

Of course. Of course.

@onilordasmodeus said:

1) The "stipulations" I was talking about, while they don't exist in Marvel, are clear in MK and put context around why things are the way they are. Looking at MK and Marvel objectively, you can clearly see that while many Marvel character out class MK in terms of strength and durability, MK outclass many Marvel characters in terms of cunning, skill, and fighting ability. The fact that this this true, adds to the match-up.

We're not just talking strength and durability; speed, intelligence, fighting skill and even how to be a God for example. I wouldn't have a clue how this adds up to a match up between Raiden and Zeus - who still one shots him and likely could take on most of their universe without breaking a sweat.

2) You are referring only to the MK4 intro when Raiden was speaking. I am taking into account the MK: Mythologies story, that intro, the video intro of MKM, various MK bios, and the comic. The whole story, while still semi-vague, isn't just coming from that one source.

That is still a major flaw within bringing said feat that lacks context. But at least you're doing a lot better than MKF30 would ever do here.

5) Sorry, Kahn is faster than the Hulk as well, and is much more versatile. Your view of MK characters is too limited. Kahn doesn't just employ punches, kicks, and hammer blows. When Kahn fights he has full range of his magic attacks which consist of TK, energy shields, and energy drains. Besides those Kahn can propel himself forward, like in the games, and has the strength to break a man with one punch. While his physical strength is far below Hulk's, his fighting ability and intellect is much higher, and all together he is a very powerful opponent.

But what makes Shao Kahn any faster than the Hulk? From everything posted I've seen here on Vine - he is very much the definition of slow brute. Even the Hulk has more zany showings where he can leap into fighter jets or get those hands on guys like Wolverine and Spiderman. I'm not particular sure I'd say Shao Kahn has a particular intellect advantage on anything but Savage Hulk.

From all that I gather from you, you don't see Raiden or Shinnok as a God (though they clearly are), and you compare them to gnats because...well because. Seems the debate was over before we began as you mind was made up.

That actually isn't the case: Gods come in all shapes and sizes. But just because two beings are gods doesn't mean they're equal - it's just that most (if not all) of these gods in MK can be dropped by a hammer toss from Thor. No idea what these videos are supposed to prove, as Shinnok isn't doing anything particular impressive in either.

Without the intervention of the Elder Gods, this is what happens. And that is without his amulet. Take note of the crater that was made by Fujin's fall, and realize that the creatures he was fighing are apparitions made from Shinnok's power. Shinnok created and sustains an entire race through his power.The context in which he was beaten is very important.

You're acting like this feat is worthwhile compared to deities in Marvel. Loki can empower individuals with fantastic abilities and the reason humanity even exists is because how easy it was for the gods to create to begin with - without some sort of constant dependence from any of them to exist.

@onilordasmodeus said:

I should add as well that the only reason I harp on the extrainious stipulations of the MKU so much is because most, if not all, people who write off MK, do it by saying Marvel/DC God 'A' can do everything MK God 'A' can do. Clearly that is not the case.

Except thus far that is the case in a lot of these threads. I'd understand you meant Ares or Volstagg (which either would still win this fight) as they have a slightly more limited power set defined by their physical stats / weapons - but Skyfathers can pretty much accomplish what these gods can do.

While definitive proof that Raiden could cave in Hulk's chest does not exist, there for he can't, when the shoe is on the other foot and a Marvel God is put up against say Liu Kang in fair and even Mortal Kombat, many Marvel/DC Gods (even Zeus), would fail.I'm looking at you Liu vs Superman/Superboy thread. Lol!

So in order to make it fair - you'd have to de-godify said gods?

This is very relevant to threads like this as the combatants bring inalltheir expereinces and feats into every fight. Pound for pound, fighters like Raiden or Shao Kahn can hold their own in every level of combat, low to high, by out thinking, out performing, out fightingand/or out musculing their opponents.

Okay.

@Vaeternus said:

I doubt even a Sky father can take on a God of another Universe that's never been defeated.

Can't debate that logic.

They defeated the One Being who compromised all known reality yet the Elder Gods defeated it...and created the worlds/realms in MK out of it's body...that's pretty damn powerful if you ask me lol

Odin and his brothers say hi.

In Video Games, yeah I'd say Elder Gods, Asura, Bayonetta to name a few off hand are up there in terms of power. Problem that some people have are "feats" but while they don't have as many as comic characters, their feats are just as impressive if not more so such as EG's and Asura's namely. Bayonetta was more or less a powerful goddess like character. Usually with video games it's either human like characters with some powers, or uber godly characters.

Here's the issue with lopping the Elder Gods with Asura and Bayonetta - these characters have actual feats to pull from. Otherwise you wouldn't be referring the creation of the realms as their big power showing over and over. Like a Goddess? She was a Witch; it's not like the final punt she gave said God is something she even did under her own power to begin with (and it's great flies through a greatly disproportional solar system). Doesn't help that it was questionable if they would even survive re-entry into Earth's atmosphere.

@Vaeternus:

Lol normal Raiden would NOT struggle against Zeus. Zeus simply punches him and off goes Raidens' head.

EG Raiden on the other hand..... has 0 feats to contend with someone of Zeus' calibre.

Just because you're a god from one media doesn't mean you can take on another god from another media. Thor would most likely defeat the Zeus from the God of War games.

Bayonetta and Asura both have feats that allows people to debate and come to conclusion with, EG Raiden... apart from being a 'god' does not have any feats.

Zeus shouldn't have much trouble wining.

@Isaac

Actually, Omni and I discuss MK a lot. That's right that logic can't be argued, because well one is simply on a higher plane then the other.

What's Odin have to do with this battle exactly?

Actually, so do the Elder Gods if anything greater feats given what they've done, but if you choose to ignore that, feel free. I expect it from certain users to be honest. Either way it doesn't matter and are irrelevant. Again, Elder Gods creating every WORLD in MKU after defeating the One Being years ago which is the Devil of MK. Yeah, pretty big feat. If you're referring to the Elder Gods surviving the Earth's atmosphere that's the funniest thing I've heard so far. Yeah, and also the fact that oh I don't know they've never been defeated? I suggest you look at the MKU power chart on here seriously..

@ Rude bomber, actually EG Raiden would annihilate Zeus and you're just rinsing and repeating what Isaac said. First off all that's wrong the EG DO have feats....again creating their universe is a feat as well as being able to resurrect people among anything they want really. They can take any shape or form and create the other Gods in the series as well as the realms. So you don't need 100 feats and Bayonetta and Asura have feats but if anything the EG feats surpass theirs given what they've done long before MK tournament existed...

@Vaeternus:

lolwut? I never knew the other guy replied before me, I replied to your reply from page 4.

Again, sorry to bother you, you win.

I don't care about winning or losing, all I care about honestly is making people aware of MK knowledge...

Obviously this is a comic book site so I expect people to vote Zeus by default. I've learned a while ago in the Superman/Hulk topics that these are all popularity contests most of the time lol.

Zeus spite

Not spite

@Vaeternus said:

Actually, Omni and I discuss MK a lot. That's right that logic can't be argued, because well one is simply on a higher plane then the other.

The main issue is it wasn't something based on anything outside the notion of said beings who had to band together to defeat one being are now suddenly unbeatable to other gods from outside said cosmos because they don't actually fight - leaving the dirty work to someone else to save their rears from being toppled off the top of the food chain.

What's Odin have to do with this battle exactly?

Was pointing out how Odin and his brothers did it better. And hey since you're big on claims and not so much actual showings - Zeus is Odin's peer in power apparently and Odin at this time is sporting the power of his brothers to boot!

Actually, so do the Elder Gods if anything greater feats given what they've done, but if you choose to ignore that, feel free. I expect it from certain users to be honest. Either way it doesn't matter and are irrelevant. Again, Elder Gods creating every WORLD in MKU after defeating the One Being years ago which is the Devil of MK. Yeah, pretty big feat.

Well I'd love to see one of them outside Shinnok in a fight or at least Shinnok display anything close to the level of power say Asura was sporting in his narrative. How many worlds are in the MKU? You act like calling it the Devil means something - generally the Devil himself is a small fry compared the the omnipotent deity that punked him out to begin with - and really said being isn't remotely similar to the Devil to begin with.

If you're referring to the Elder Gods surviving the Earth's atmosphere that's the funniest thing I've heard so far.

I was referring to Bayonetta potentially kicking the bucket on atmospheric re-entry.

Yeah, and also the fact that oh I don't know they've never been defeated? I suggest you look at the MKU power chart on here seriously..

You aren't going to convince anyone with that argument - it's completely shallow.

@ Rude bomber, actually EG Raiden would annihilate Zeus and you're just rinsing and repeating what Isaac said. First off all that's wrong the EG DO have feats....again creating their universe is a feat as well as being able to resurrect people among anything they want really. They can take any shape or form and create the other Gods in the series as well as the realms. So you don't need 100 feats and Bayonetta and Asura have feats but if anything the EG feats surpass theirs given what they've done long before MK tournament existed...

Yeah the guy without feats to his name totally annihilates Zeus somehow. Yeah because the Elder Gods can hit hard enough to obliterate planet sized opponents or bench continental sized fingers.

Simple concept. A creator that doesn't have any feats that can destroy his own creation at a whim is still weaker than a Destroyer who can do just that with said creations.

The Elder Gods of MK have shown some capacity of creation. Don't forget that each of the realms they've created pretty much only consists of a planet. Not exactly the best creation feat out there considering it took a combined effort from all of them to even create the Kamidogu to shatter the One Being, presumably with prep as well to do so.

Feats that a single Elder God has in an actual fight comparable to Odin, Zeus, or even Thor in terms of being able to harm a Skyfather-level being? None. Baseless assumptions are not going anywhere.

Actually, the realms were created from the One Being's essense(not a planet ^) the One Being they defeated eons ago and is more or less the devil of MKU. It's influence is dark, controlling and evil among everyone in the MKU.

Of course being Video Game characters they'll have less feats, but again Elder Gods=God of MKU and creation of everything, not losing to Zeus here who is far from God level in MU much less top 5 powerful character in MU.

@Isaac, No more like the Elder Gods just don't feel like being bothered half the time because they show no "bias" but if they feel the need to get involved they will take care of business...yes, they are unbeatable because they've uhh never been beaten... Ah, so in other words I'm right and you're bringing up Odin randomly(and btw doing it better that's relative) until Odin creates worlds literally and realms as well as the power to destroy them and defeat the Devil of Marvel Universe at least for a while, talk to me.

And again, Shinnok IS NOT an Elder God...he's a FALLEN Elder God, and thus does NOT have their power....I don't get why this is such a difficult concept to understand? You think Shinnok=Elder God still, he's not....in fact Raiden defeated him and banished him in MK4's intro years ago. So obviously if normal Raiden did such, Shinnok isn't anywhere near an Elder God being as how an Elder God could easily destroy Raiden, Shinnok etc And yes the Elder Gods are as powerful actually probably surpass Asura given how they created the entire MKU. But again feel free to ignore this...How many worlds/realms about 8 if you count ones that aren't talked about, but what relevance does that have? In the entire MKU, you're not higher then Elder Gods...like mentioned before, the only thing to ever challenge them was the One Being years ago which they defeated then came back and they dealt with it by powering up Scorpion, but Shujinko beat him to it...How is the Devil small exactly? lol Too funny.

Well, I was just listing other powerful characters in Bayonetta, I never said she was "the most powerful" but hey at least video games are more realistic with people in space for the most part, and not "magically able to breath" like in Wonder Woman's case...among other characters. Well, then you just admitted that you know you're wrong and don't want to look at the power chart because you're obviously not aware of MK...so you should probably just leave this topic then.

Yeah, guy without feats who is equal to those beings who only created the entire MKU...yeah, you don't need feats when you're that powerful...this is like the classic "Superman One Million vs. Galactus argument" well Galactus has far more feats,therefore he'd win...even though he's going up against someone who would destroy him easily....I love how you're completely ignoring the fact that the Elder Gods CREATED the entire MKU, yet you're questioning them hitting hard? lol you make no sense. They wouldn't have to "hit hard" given their abilities...

Mikaboshi has defeated Zeus and Mikaboshi isn't anywhere near the league of an Elder God.

I'd say Elder God Raiden could take Zeus.

@goodguy24: So you're saying Mikaboshi who is a multiversal being isn't anywhere near an elder god?

@justleader said:

@goodguy24: So you're saying Mikaboshi who is a multiversal being isn't anywhere near an elder god?

Elder Gods are like Spiritual Gods, You can't even touch them, see them or harm them whatsoever. Kinda like Biblical God a little bit, but not as powerful of course, but they're still very powerful Gods and they only one who can kill, beat or depower Elder God Raiden would be an Elder God above his level.

Raiden Banished Shinnok another Elder God under his own powers.

I have to say Elder Raiden stomps Zeus... real hard.

@goodguy24: I know who elder gods are.............but saying that mikaboshi (a multiversal buster) isn't anywhere near the league of an Elder God is very wrong, mikaboshi can solo the MKU easily.

Nope. The Elder Gods=God in MKU...and being as how the Elder Gods are omnipotent, I'd say that's a fair assessment. So yeah, Mikaboshi ain't soloing nothing..the Elder Gods would destroy him too. Again, Elder Gods in MK=God of MKU. They created not only the realms/worlds of MKU but also the Kamidogu which are weapons of the Elder Gods that can grant anyone unspeakable power and warp reality.

@goodguy24 said:

Mikaboshi has defeated Zeus and Mikaboshi isn't anywhere near the league of an Elder God.

I'd say Elder God Raiden could take Zeus.

Good point. Mikaboshi seems very similar to The One being(kind of, not exactly) yet the Elder Gods defeated him eons ago and made the realms from it's body and conscience.

Zeus

This is still up for debate? Jesus..