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#1 Posted by Hulkstrongerthan1 (1041 posts) - - Show Bio

Who will win

#2 Posted by capall (8278 posts) - - Show Bio

ZEUS
#3 Posted by MKMarvelDCfan4life (256 posts) - - Show Bio

ZEUS

#4 Posted by Om4zd (918 posts) - - Show Bio

ZEUS

#5 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (1421 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus wins here.. no doubt.

#6 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus.

#7 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3520 posts) - - Show Bio

ZEUS

#8 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

i'll go against the grain...Raiden

#9 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (1421 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayfournines said:

i'll go against the grain...Raiden

I doubt Raiden would be able to tank a single hit from Zeus.

#10 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

@RudeBomberBoy01 said:

@Jayfournines said:

i'll go against the grain...Raiden

I doubt Raiden would be able to tank a single hit from Zeus.

I doubt Zeus would be able to hit Raiden and his....falalalalalalaaaah!!!!! thing where he screams like a cracked out she male on Jerry Springer

#11 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2485 posts) - - Show Bio
Lol! I'll go against the grain too... Raiden ftw!
#12 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Truly, it depends on the incarnation of Raiden.

Moderator
#13 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (1421 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayfournines:

Lol now I know you're joking. Zeus K.Os Raiden with one punch.

#14 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

@RudeBomberBoy01 said:

@Jayfournines:

Lol now I know you're joking. Zeus K.Os Raiden with one punch.

lol

#15 Posted by ShootingNova (13319 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Truly, it depends on the incarnation of Raiden.

Indeed it does.

But non-Elder God Raiden gets crushed.

Online
#16 Posted by FourthDeity (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus solos all of MK.

#17 Posted by XImpossibruX (5030 posts) - - Show Bio

@FourthDeity said:

Zeus solos all of MK.

#18 Posted by ShootingNova (13319 posts) - - Show Bio

@FourthDeity said:

Zeus solos all of MK.

I thought there were omnipotents in MK?

Online
#19 Posted by BlueComet (1037 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@FourthDeity said:

Zeus solos all of MK.

I thought there were omnipotents in MK?

Not that anyone knows of and of course Zeus wins....duh

#20 Posted by ShootingNova (13319 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueComet: Ask @onilordasmodeus:

Online
#21 Posted by goodguy24 (704 posts) - - Show Bio

Raiden Stomps Zeus................real hard.

#22 Posted by ShootingNova (13319 posts) - - Show Bio

@goodguy24 said:

Raiden Stomps Zeus................real hard.

Uhh...... what? You mean Elder God Raiden? And not his more "mortal-like" form? Because that form dies to Zeus.

Online
#23 Posted by emad_ishtiaque (338 posts) - - Show Bio

@capall said:

ZEUS

@MKMarvelDCfan4life said:

ZEUS

@Om4zd said:

ZEUS

@RudeBomberBoy01 said:

Zeus wins here.. no doubt.

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

Zeus.

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

ZEUS

This

#24 Posted by FourthDeity (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@FourthDeity said:

Zeus solos all of MK.

I thought there were omnipotents in MK?

Really? like who? Even then all the knowledge couldn't help you against someone like Zeus.. He's on a level no one in MK has even seen before

#25 Posted by ShootingNova (13319 posts) - - Show Bio

@FourthDeity: I know that, but I thought there were omnipotents. Omnipotent beings crush Zeus instantly.

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#26 Posted by Bane_of_sith (2701 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus drops a deuce on Raiden

#27 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3520 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bane_of_sith Comment of the year.

#28 Posted by FourthDeity (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@FourthDeity: I know that, but I thought there were omnipotents. Omnipotent beings crush Zeus instantly.

My bad I was thinking of omniscience when I wrote that. Whos omnipotent though?The OP never stated a battleground so I assumed it was neutral battle grounds.

#29 Posted by ShootingNova (13319 posts) - - Show Bio

@FourthDeity: These.... guys. I'm not an expert, ask the guy I told people to ask in the last page.

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#30 Posted by MKMarvelDCfan4life (256 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus is a god who fights dangerous superhumans while Raiden is a god who has trouble dealing with mortals.

#31 Posted by TheSuperHuman (856 posts) - - Show Bio

Um, Zeus, easily.

#32 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@FourthDeity said:

Zeus solos all of MK.

I thought there were omnipotents in MK?

The Elder Gods have nothing for showings really to bank on.

#33 Posted by Bo88gdan (4374 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus 

#34 Posted by ShootingNova (13319 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke said:

@ShootingNova said:

@FourthDeity said:

Zeus solos all of MK.

I thought there were omnipotents in MK?

The Elder Gods have nothing for showings really to bank on.

Right, so TOAA has no combat feats, I guess he can't beat Spider-Man.

And I thought there was something above the Elder Gods?

Online
#35 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@Deranged Midget said:

Truly, it depends on the incarnation of Raiden.

Indeed it does.

But non-Elder God Raiden gets crushed.

Without a doubt, yes, but Elder God Raiden stands a far better chance than people assume.

Moderator
#36 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2485 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Yes, he does.

How good of a fighter is Zeus anyway?

Just going off Zeus's power grid, EG Raiden would wipe the floor with him (in terms of skill and speed), and regular Raiden would be able to hold his own. The only scan I've seen of Zeus is him laying out the hulk, so there is no question of how strong Zeus is but how fast is he, how skilled, and how much punishment can he take?

#37 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@Deranged Midget: Yes, he does.

How good of a fighter is Zeus anyway?

Just going off Zeus's power grid, EG Raiden would wipe the floor with him (in terms of skill and speed), and regular Raiden would be able to hold his own. The only scan I've seen of Zeus is him laying out the hulk, so there is no question of how strong Zeus is but how fast is he, how skilled, and how much punishment can he take?

Zeus has little to no fighting skill feats, simply demonstrations of pure power such as casually smacking off the Avengers, Thor, and most recently, destroying the Hulk.

He's basically the equivalent to Odin.

Moderator
#38 Posted by justleader (1708 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus wins

#39 Posted by Nefarious (17625 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus stomps.

#40 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

Right, so TOAA has no combat feats, I guess he can't beat Spider-Man.

And I thought there was something above the Elder Gods?

The problem you have an Elder God with combat feats; Shinnok. They haven't done anything to put themselves at a level omnipotence - it's easy for them to look like the top dogs with next to no competition (and when that shows up - it's always a bit of a panic in MK).

#41 Posted by omegablast452 (2425 posts) - - Show Bio

Raiden just because.

#42 Edited by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Zeus would solo the whole Mortal Kombat universe.

#43 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2485 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: There is nothing "above" the EGs, the One Being is their equal, it could go either way. The One being is above a single EG though.

I love that ending.

@isaac_clarke said:

@ShootingNova said:

Right, so TOAA has no combat feats, I guess he can't beat Spider-Man.

And I thought there was something above the Elder Gods?

The problem you have an Elder God with combat feats; Shinnok. They haven't done anything to put themselves at a level omnipotence - it's easy for them to look like the top dogs with next to no competition (and when that shows up - it's always a bit of a panic in MK).

1) Shinnok literally rewrote the Netherrealm; he tore down the old one and rebuilt it at his whim with just his magical influence. He did that without his amulet, and in various games they say that only by Shinnok's will can people even existent in the Netherrealm.

2) Shinnok's first fight with Raiden, who was not an EG at the time, wiped out a civilization and almost destroyed the earth. Full power Raiden on Earth couldn't stand up to him, not to mention all the other Elemental Gods of the planet.

3) Shinnok and his forces assaulted the Heavens and killed a lot (most) of the gods (which led to Raiden's ascension). He did that without his Amulet also.

When Shinnok fought Raiden the first time, Raiden didn't/couldn't beat him. The way Raiden won was through the EGs intervention after Raiden stripped Shinnok of his Amulet. Shinnok with his Amulet could stand up to the EGs (all of them) and stop their power, while fighting all the Gods of Earth. But most of the feats that Shinnok has accomplished he did without his amulet and therefore was in a "weaker" state. But even in that state he could pretty much do whatever he wanted. When he fought in MK4, he was mortal due to the MK rules (or PIS). I Really can't wait for MK10 just so they can expand on that story too.

But yeah...Raiden.

EG Raiden is as strong as Shinnok is with his Amulet, but EG Raiden is formless and really only exists outside the realms. As soon as any of the EGs enter "existence" they automatically become weaker (that is just how it is). That was the reason for Shinnok's Amulet in the first place; with it he is/was able to access his true power.

Dark Raiden is just Raiden with no regard for any type of life, human or otherwise. It's him using his power to its fullest extent and just wanting to preserve the Earth's existence. The only real example of Raiden's EG power is at the end of MKA when he got the essence of Blaze...

He was strong enough to destroy planets.

Omnipotence isn't that you can destroy everyone/everything, it's just that you can do what ever you want...like God. There are a hand full of omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient beings in MK.

#44 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

1) Shinnok literally rewrote the Netherrealm; he tore down the old one and rebuilt it at his whim with just his magical influence. He did that without his amulet, and in various games they say that only by Shinnok's will can people even existent in the Netherrealm.

Your point? Anyone being sent packing by Johnny Cage or Lui Kang isn't going to beat Zeus.

2) Shinnok's first fight with Raiden, who was not an EG at the time, wiped out a civilization and almost destroyed the earth. Full power Raiden on Earth couldn't stand up to him, not to mention all the other Elemental Gods of the planet.

Heard this one before too - which isn't entirely that impressive compared to who he's fighting here.

3) Shinnok and his forces assaulted the Heavens and killed a lot (most) of the gods (which led to Raiden's ascension). He did that without his Amulet also.

This feat doesn't give anyone anything to work with.

When Shinnok fought Raiden the first time, Raiden didn't/couldn't beat him. The way Raiden won was through the EGs intervention after Raiden stripped Shinnok of his Amulet. Shinnok with his Amulet could stand up to the EGs (all of them) and stop their power, while fighting all the Gods of Earth. But most of the feats that Shinnok has accomplished he did without his amulet and therefore was in a "weaker" state. But even in that state he could pretty much do whatever he wanted. When he fought in MK4, he was mortal due to the MK rules (or PIS). I Really can't wait for MK10 just so they can expand on that story too.

Okay.

But yeah...Raiden.
EG Raiden is as strong as Shinnok is with his Amulet, but EG Raiden is formless and really only exists outside the realms. As soon as any of the EGs enter "existence" they automatically become weaker (that is just how it is). That was the reason for Shinnok's Amulet in the first place; with it he is/was able to access his true power.
Dark Raiden is just Raiden with no regard for any type of life, human or otherwise. It's him using his power to its fullest extent and just wanting to preserve the Earth's existence. The only real example of Raiden's EG power is at the end of MKA when he got the essence of Blaze...

Not sure why we're touching on Raiden - similarly he isn't that powerful compared to the thunder-gods in Marvel.

He was strong enough to destroy planets.

Which is a feat the Hulk can accomplish - and Zeus beats the tar out of him.

Omnipotence isn't that you can destroy everyone/everything, it's just that you can do what ever you want...like God. There are a hand full of omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient beings in MK.

No one said that - Omnipotence can more or less simply refer to the top dog of all of your creation. : /

Then they wouldn't be omnipotent if someone else is omnipotent.

#45 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2485 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

1) Shinnok literally rewrote the Netherrealm; he tore down the old one and rebuilt it at his whim with just his magical influence. He did that without his amulet, and in various games they say that only by Shinnok's will can people even existent in the Netherrealm.

1) Your point? Anyone being sent packing by Johnny Cage or Lui Kang isn't going to beat Zeus.

2) Shinnok's first fight with Raiden, who was not an EG at the time, wiped out a civilization and almost destroyed the earth. Full power Raiden on Earth couldn't stand up to him, not to mention all the other Elemental Gods of the planet.

2) Heard this one before too - which isn't entirely that impressive compared to who he's fighting here.

3) Shinnok and his forces assaulted the Heavens and killed a lot (most) of the gods (which led to Raiden's ascension). He did that without his Amulet also.

3)This feat doesn't give anyone anything to work with.

When Shinnok fought Raiden the first time, Raiden didn't/couldn't beat him. The way Raiden won was through the EGs intervention after Raiden stripped Shinnok of his Amulet. Shinnok with his Amulet could stand up to the EGs (all of them) and stop their power, while fighting all the Gods of Earth. But most of the feats that Shinnok has accomplished he did without his amulet and therefore was in a "weaker" state. But even in that state he could pretty much do whatever he wanted. When he fought in MK4, he was mortal due to the MK rules (or PIS). I Really can't wait for MK10 just so they can expand on that story too.

Okay.

But yeah...Raiden.
EG Raiden is as strong as Shinnok is with his Amulet, but EG Raiden is formless and really only exists outside the realms. As soon as any of the EGs enter "existence" they automatically become weaker (that is just how it is). That was the reason for Shinnok's Amulet in the first place; with it he is/was able to access his true power.
Dark Raiden is just Raiden with no regard for any type of life, human or otherwise. It's him using his power to its fullest extent and just wanting to preserve the Earth's existence. The only real example of Raiden's EG power is at the end of MKA when he got the essence of Blaze...

4) Not sure why we're touching on Raiden - similarly he isn't that powerful compared to the thunder-gods in Marvel.

He was strong enough to destroy planets.

5) Which is a feat the Hulk can accomplish - and Zeus beats the tar out of him.

Omnipotence isn't that you can destroy everyone/everything, it's just that you can do what ever you want...like God. There are a hand full of omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient beings in MK.

6) No one said that - Omnipotence can more or less simply refer to the top dog of all of your creation. : /

Then they wouldn't be omnipotent if someone else is omnipotent.

1) Johnny fought Shinnok's Clone. Shinnok at that time was still locked in the Netherrealm. The Shinnok clone was nothing compared to real Shinnok as showcased in his MKA ending. With Blaze's essence (power to create a God) he became as strong as the true Shinnok.

But any way, who would win? H2h, no super strength or durability, no god-like power; Zeus is essentially brought down to mid to high meta-human range...MK style. Iron Fist vs Zeus? Who wins?

2) That is your opinion, but you can't dispute the facts. It always seems to comeback to the fact that MK character 'A' hasn't, or "can't", beat Marvel/DC character 'B', therefore MK is sh!t. If it had been Shinnok (with his Amulet) beat immortal versions of Thor (without hammer), Red Tornado, Iceman, Human Torch, and [enter God-like Earth user here], all while nullifying Odin, Zeus, and every other Sky-father's intervention into the fight, then you'd respect it. That is just the harsh reality of MK's treatment.

3) This feat is just to show that Shinnok, and by extension Raiden, do/can fight on a whole different level than what is shown in the games. The Gods of MK are beyond human/meta-human levels shown in the games.

4) Raiden is much more powerful than your giving him credit. Catching/carrying planes, warping reality, the potential to destroy planets (plural), Raiden looks passed most Marvel/DC characters, and can hold his own against most of the Marvel/DC higher-ups.

5) Zeus beat the tar out of WB Hulk? Really??

6) That was my point. You original comment:

The problem you have an Elder God with combat feats; Shinnok. They haven't done anything to put themselves at a level omnipotence - it's easy for them to look like the top dogs with next to no competition (and when that shows up - it's always a bit of a panic in MK).

Shinnok, Raiden, and the others don't just look-like top dogs, they are top dogs. They are the True Immortal Gods of MK, and have proven such. Just because there are more transcendent characters in Marvel/DC, doesn't mean they are better. And just because Zeus put down a less-than WB Hulk doesn't mean he could do the same thing to Raiden, or EG Raiden, or even Shinnok at their peaks.

#46 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

1) Johnny fought Shinnok's Clone. Shinnok at that time was still locked in the Netherrealm. The Shinnok clone was nothing compared to real Shinnok as showcased in his MKA ending. With Blaze's essence (power to create a God) he became as strong as the true Shinnok.

I'll take your word on it - though clones are generally a cheap way to divert away from said character losing to someone.

But any way, who would win? H2h, no super strength or durability, no god-like power; Zeus is essentially brought down to mid to high meta-human range...MK style. Iron Fist vs Zeus? Who wins?

The problem is that isn't Zues in that case. And Iron Fist would roll over most of the MK cast to be honest.

2) That is your opinion, but you can't dispute the facts. It always seems to comeback to the fact that MK character 'A' hasn't, or "can't", beat Marvel/DC character 'B', therefore MK is sh!t. If it had been Shinnok (with his Amulet) beat immortal versions of Thor (without hammer), Red Tornado, Iceman, Human Torch, and [enter God-like Earth user here], all while nullifying Odin, Zeus, and every other Sky-father's intervention into the fight, then you'd respect it. That is just the harsh reality of MK's treatment.

Wiping out a civilization and almost 'destroying' the Earth off panel / screen isn't something particular "Wow." Especially when comparing it to someone that easily rolls Thor and the Hulk over without breaking much a sweat in fights.

3) This feat is just to show that Shinnok, and by extension Raiden, do/can fight on a whole different level than what is shown in the games. The Gods of MK are beyond human/meta-human levels shown in the games.

Okay.

4) Raiden is much more powerful than your giving him credit. Catching/carrying planes, warping reality, the potential to destroy planets (plural), Raiden looks passed most Marvel/DC characters, and can hold his own against most of the Marvel/DC higher-ups.

A lot of this stuff isn't that impressive compared to who Shinnok is fighting here. And I have to say given the slew of Nigh-Omnipotent beings - that isn't remotely true.

5) Zeus beat the tar out of WB Hulk? Really??
6) That was my point. You original comment:
Shinnok, Raiden, and the others don't just look-like top dogs, they are top dogs. They are the True Immortal Gods of MK, and have proven such.

I don't see how this conflicts with what I said. A Shark looks good next a Salmon in terms of presence and power - then you start adding whales or Batman with shark repellent and they just don't look as big.

Just because there are more transcendent characters in Marvel/DC, doesn't mean they are better. And just because Zeus put down a less-than WB Hulk doesn't mean he could do the same thing to Raiden, or EG Raiden, or even Shinnok at their peaks.

I'd heavily disagree with the latter - the only saving point these folks have is Zeus is a moron. But fighting against a bunch of gods that keep having issues with mortals at hand to hand doesn't sound too difficult for him.

#47 Edited by MKMarvelDCfan4life (256 posts) - - Show Bio

If Zeus was in MK universe, he can save Earthrealm with a blink of his eyes. While if Raiden was in Marvel Universe, he would be like a bug that gets crushed by any mortal.

#48 Posted by onilordasmodeus (2485 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke:

1) The correct answer to who would win out of IF and Zeus if Zeus was taken down a couple notches is IF. And yes, IF would take a lot of the MK cast, just like the majority of the people that IF can beat in Marvel, so too could Liu Kang, or Kung Lao, or Subzero. MK fights are judged more by match-ups and skill rather than power and durability. That is the point we are dancing around, and one of the reasons MK threads have trouble; their skill carries no weight.

2) Off-panel vs On-panel. Just because you aren't as impressed with off-panel/screen feats as you are with on-panel feats, doesn't mean they should be counted any less when looking at the 2 feats objectively. Zeus out punching hulk or Thor and threatening a city wide area, to me isn't more impressive than Shinnok vs Raiden's fight having a global impact off-panel. While it'd be great to see it, it isn't necessary in order to understand the magnitude of the feat.

I guess all those SWEU feats should be discounted too...

5) I've seen/read those scans, and yes they are impressive, but the problem with them is (see # 1) they only show Zeus's strength. At best in those scans Zeus displays peak street-level speeds (though I don't doubt he can go faster), level 6 durability, and his fighting skill seems on par with his power grid, level 4. Raiden definitely moves much faster than Hulk, has much more skill in combat, and can still hit pretty hard.

Matching up the fighter in terms of skill, speed, power, etc., the fight becomes closer than most will admit. In Raiden, Zeus would find an opponent who can dodge extremely well and counter hit with the best of them.

6)

I'd heavily disagree with the latter - the only saving point these folks have is Zeus is a moron. But fighting against a bunch of gods that keep having issues with mortals at hand to hand doesn't sound too difficult for him.

You, like most people on CV, are trying to compare apples to oranges, but you either don't know, or don't care, that they are different. The Raiden who lost to the Deadly Alliance wasn't the same Raiden who fought Shinnok before MK1. To say that Raiden, or any of the other Gods, have trouble with mortals is miss-representative of the characters as a whole. MK has rules that are clear and ever present, and they are baked into the characters and canon fully. Just because you don't like/agree/understand the concept, doesn't mean you can/should write the characters off as weak.

I don't think we will ever fully agree on this topic, but for the most part I understand where you are coming from with all your points, and I hope you are understanding my points as well; that is all anyone can really ask.

#49 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

@onilordasmodeus said:

@isaac_clarke:

1) The correct answer to who would win out of IF and Zeus if Zeus was taken down a couple notches is IF.

Considering Iron Fist has punched out trains before and can heal from bullet wounds on the spot - Zeus would be at a little disadvantage at say Spiderman level. But regardless Zeus isn't Spiderman - he's a Greek God that drops mountains on monsters for the hell of it.

And yes, IF would take a lot of the MK cast, just like the majority of the people that IF can beat in Marvel, so too could Liu Kang, or Kung Lao, or Subzero. MK fights are judged more by match-ups and skill rather than power and durability. That is the point we are dancing around, and one of the reasons MK threads have trouble; their skill carries no weight.

I agree - Iron Fist can probably demolish most of the Mortal Kombat cast at once given his vast speed and striking power advantage on them; however that isn't at all true in Marvel - way too many beings beyond street level that can handle him. Way too many street levelers can handily send those three packing - so I disagree.

It doesn't help someone like Dare Devil out-skills them. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/daredevil-vs-sub-zero-pre-deadly-alliance/549115/?page=9

2) Off-panel vs On-panel. Just because you aren't as impressed with off-panel/screen feats as you are with on-panel feats, doesn't mean they should be counted any less when looking at the 2 feats objectively. Zeus out punching hulk or Thor and threatening a city wide area, to me isn't more impressive than Shinnok vs Raiden's fight having a global impact off-panel. While it'd be great to see it, it isn't necessary in order to understand the magnitude of the feat.
I guess all those SWEU feats should be discounted too...

The problem is the feat itself isn't at all impressive to begin with - it being off panel and without any real context outside taking a long time isn't at all "wow!" The emphasis you're putting on a lousy feat isn't worth it.

5) I've seen/read those scans, and yes they are impressive, but the problem with them is (see # 1) they only show Zeus's strength. At best in those scans Zeus displays peak street-level speeds (though I don't doubt he can go faster), level 6 durability, and his fighting skill seems on par with his power grid, level 4. Raiden definitely moves much faster than Hulk, has much more skill in combat, and can still hit pretty hard.
Matching up the fighter in terms of skill, speed, power, etc., the fight becomes closer than most will admit. In Raiden, Zeus would find an opponent who can dodge extremely well and counter hit with the best of them.

The Hulk's terms were "less talking" - so Zeus promptly physically beat the tar out of to the point he's left a lasting effect of weakening him for a time. It's tough to argue Raiden moves faster than the Hulk when slow bricks like Shao Kahn consistently give him a very hard time. Sure Raiden can hit hard - just not anywhere close to Hulk hard - even Colossus hard would be too generous given what showings he has.

Doubt it - but again Zeus is Zeus, not some other character with a completely different power set / stats.

You, like most people on CV, are trying to compare apples to oranges, but you either don't know, or don't care, that they are different. The Raiden who lost to the Deadly Alliance wasn't the same Raiden who fought Shinnok before MK1. To say that Raiden, or any of the other Gods, have trouble with mortals is miss-representative of the characters as a whole. MK has rules that are clear and ever present, and they are baked into the characters and canon fully. Just because you don't like/agree/understand the concept, doesn't mean you can/should write the characters off as weak.
I don't think we will ever fully agree on this topic, but for the most part I understand where you are coming from with all your points, and I hope you are understanding my points as well; that is all anyone can really ask.

Then they should go get much better feats - rather than receive some really poor loses to people they are supposedly infinitely more powerful than. I get you're passionate about MK - but they're not sporting much for showings that are particularly impressive compared to even lower end Skyfathers like Zeus.

#50 Edited by onilordasmodeus (2485 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke said:

@onilordasmodeus said:

@isaac_clarke:

1) The correct answer to who would win out of IF and Zeus if Zeus was taken down a couple notches is IF.

Considering Iron Fist has punched out trains before and can heal from bullet wounds on the spot - Zeus would be at a little disadvantage at say Spiderman level. But regardless Zeus isn't Spiderman - he's a Greek God that drops mountains on monsters for the hell of it.

And yes, IF would take a lot of the MK cast, just like the majority of the people that IF can beat in Marvel, so too could Liu Kang, or Kung Lao, or Subzero. MK fights are judged more by match-ups and skill rather than power and durability. That is the point we are dancing around, and one of the reasons MK threads have trouble; their skill carries no weight.

I agree - Iron Fist can probably demolish most of the Mortal Kombat cast at once given his vast speed and striking power advantage on them; however that isn't at all true in Marvel - way too many beings beyond street level that can handle him. Way too many street levelers can handily send those three packing - so I disagree.

It doesn't help someone like Dare Devil out-skills them. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/daredevil-vs-sub-zero-pre-deadly-alliance/549115/?page=9

2) Off-panel vs On-panel. Just because you aren't as impressed with off-panel/screen feats as you are with on-panel feats, doesn't mean they should be counted any less when looking at the 2 feats objectively. Zeus out punching hulk or Thor and threatening a city wide area, to me isn't more impressive than Shinnok vs Raiden's fight having a global impact off-panel. While it'd be great to see it, it isn't necessary in order to understand the magnitude of the feat.
I guess all those SWEU feats should be discounted too...

The problem is the feat itself isn't at all impressive to begin with - it being off panel and without any real context outside taking a long time isn't at all "wow!" The emphasis you're putting on a lousy feat isn't worth it.

5) I've seen/read those scans, and yes they are impressive, but the problem with them is (see # 1) they only show Zeus's strength. At best in those scans Zeus displays peak street-level speeds (though I don't doubt he can go faster), level 6 durability, and his fighting skill seems on par with his power grid, level 4. Raiden definitely moves much faster than Hulk, has much more skill in combat, and can still hit pretty hard.
Matching up the fighter in terms of skill, speed, power, etc., the fight becomes closer than most will admit. In Raiden, Zeus would find an opponent who can dodge extremely well and counter hit with the best of them.

The Hulk's terms were "less talking" - so Zeus promptly physically beat the tar out of to the point he's left a lasting effect of weakening him for a time. It's tough to argue Raiden moves faster than the Hulk when slow bricks like Shao Kahn consistently give him a very hard time. Sure Raiden can hit hard - just not anywhere close to Hulk hard - even Colossus hard would be too generous given what showings he has.

Doubt it - but again Zeus is Zeus, not some other character with a completely different power set / stats.

You, like most people on CV, are trying to compare apples to oranges, but you either don't know, or don't care, that they are different. The Raiden who lost to the Deadly Alliance wasn't the same Raiden who fought Shinnok before MK1. To say that Raiden, or any of the other Gods, have trouble with mortals is miss-representative of the characters as a whole. MK has rules that are clear and ever present, and they are baked into the characters and canon fully. Just because you don't like/agree/understand the concept, doesn't mean you can/should write the characters off as weak.
I don't think we will ever fully agree on this topic, but for the most part I understand where you are coming from with all your points, and I hope you are understanding my points as well; that is all anyone can really ask.

Then they should go get much better feats - rather than receive some really poor loses to people they are supposedly infinitely more powerful than. I get you're passionate about MK - but they're not sporting much for showings that are particularly impressive compared to even lower end Skyfathers like Zeus.

1) The point was that under the same stipulations, Zeus would fair the same as, if not much worse than, the MK Gods. Feats are feats, I get it, but this continuous harping on the MK characters, and the consistent and constant misrepresentation of them gets old. Fact is pound for pound, MK characters hold their own.

But then again, when MK is involved the conversation goes like this:

MK character 'A' beat MK God 'C'? How? Regardless, MK God 'C' must suck cause MK character 'A' sucks anyway.

MK is deemed the looser before the debate begins.

You think someone like DD outclasses most MK characters? That is up for debate...just like the thread you linked to was/is. In 1v1 combat with an MK character many of the Marvel/DC street-level to low/mid meta-human level fighters get smoked. But most can't admit it to themselves.

2) As I said before, you are entitled to you opinion, but unimpressive that Shinnok held off multiple "Sky-father" level beings? Seems more like you are just closing your ears and eyes and sticking with what you are comfortable with.

5) Hulk's terms were Mortal Combat, where yeah...he lost. And it isn't hard at all to see that Raiden fights at a speed higher than Hulk. Flight, teleportation, moves and strikes like lightning; Raiden is MUCH faster than Hulk, but yeah, you are right, the question is whether or not Raiden could hit Zeus hard enough. That IDK, but I do know he'll hit him...A LOT.

...they should go get much better feats - rather than receive some really poor loses to people they are supposedly infinitely more powerful than.

Lol! Ok. Even after I pointed it out in my previous post, which you quoted, you still decide to negate the context in which said losses occurred and then pass it off as a consistent bar of their ability. I guess that is fine...up until it happens to a Marvel or DC scan.

Let me post a scan of Hulk being taken down by Cap or SM; or the Avengers (which Zeus took out) being beaten by Taskmaster. "Low showing, context, PIS"; that is all you'll hear. Context is everything, it even says that in the Battle forum's sticky-ed rules. But yeah...whatever, I entered this debate with full knowledge on what I was going to have to deal with.