Zeus vs Darkseid

Darkseid, I guess. I see him easily replicating what Zeus did to Hulk, and a whole lot worse. CIN.

Considering that Zeus previously completely laughed of blows from Mjolnir/Thor as well the whole Avengers, Hulk moving (even though not hurting) Zeus isn't a credibly feat at all

More or less yes.

Set was actually trying to enter the dimension, whole, through a statue.

Neptune, severed the statue, greatly harming Set, to a point Set held a grudge against him but could do nothing to retaliate.

Unlike Shuma Gorath, Set however is capable of coming to Earth dimension, as a whole, after all he was born on Earth, and grew in power on Earth.

In comparision, Shuma Gorath, is Chaos Dimension, made manifest, he is simply incapable of comming on Earth, in full, due to that inherent limitation.

Set has come to Earth dimension in full when passed through portals. Happen a bit earlier, when an amped up Set came through to our reality , in full, alongside the power of his alternate reality counterpart through serpent crown.

Lastly if you dislike that feat, Neptune also drowned the entire Mikaboshi army (before his ascension to Chaos King of course) with one move.

@baltoro: You can find images of Odin getting brought to his knees by Thor as well. Odin absolutely has much lower showings than the galaxy busting level people always talk about.

The reason people view Zeus as his equal is because pretty much since he first showed up, the writers have been saying over and over and over and over, without fail, that he is Odin's equal. We all know he doesn't actually have feats like Odin, but at a certain point, I think we can believe that Marvel Editorial has essentially defined him as being equal to Odin. The One Above All doesn't really have a lot of actual feats as well, but we accept that he is meant to be literally omnipotent in the Marvel Universe.

You are heavily exaggerating their power. We see very little of these gods, and, as has been mentioned, by the time Uxas actually does kill them, they had already fought amongst themselves to the point they are lying prone on the ground, completely helpless, actually begging for his assistance. It is not even remotely as if he fought and defeated even one healthy god, let alone several.

FACT: The gods were the creators of ALL HE KNEW.

Yes. You are exaggerating and blowing it out of proportion in extrapolating this to be them having control of their entire reality and everything in it. Uxas was a simple farmer on a primitive world. What he "knew" should almost certainly be similarly primitive.

FACT: Darkseid absorbed the power of more than 10 GODS. Or all of them if you prefer.

Again, we don't know how powerful they really were, and even if we did, they were not at full strength when he did this, so we don't really know what percentage he got from each of them.

Ultimately, this is actually irrelevant. Darkseid is only as powerful as he has shown himself to be. Whatever feats he has after his apotheosis indicate how powerful he is, and indicates how much power he got from them. Uxas killing them in the past only explains how he acquired the power that he has, it doesn't actually tell us how much.

FACT: Destroys a primordial GOD with his OMEGA BEAMS

That god was already dying and had already transferred his power to Highfather. He would have died shortly even if Darkseid hadn't done anything. I don't see how this really means anything.

BY THE WAY. ONE of those (by your calculations) 'featless' and flimsy GODS turns an average farmer into HIGHFATHER.

Yes, the one you just mentioned, who was already dying and gave up his last power to Izaya. Also, yes, Highfather. Why is this in all caps? Does that mean something? What are Highfather's feats? How powerful has he been shown to be?

The creator of all they behold. Their own personal Zeus in that dimesion's pantheon. The main GOD.

And a few pages before it referred to all the other gods as "the great creators and destroyers of all he knew."

See, this is the problem when you try to take a highly mythological account literally. We already have a bit of a contradiction; how can that one skyfather be the creator of all they behold, if we already know that all the other gods were the creators of all that they knew?

Essentially, the only way this works is if you keep in mind that these statements are coming from and regarding very simple, primitive farmers on a simple world, one of whom is a blasphemer, and the other who is highly devout. But neither of them are necessarily sophisticated in their knowledge of the structure of their reality, or even necessarily of the gods themselves.

FACT: The same GOD that Darkseid annihilated with one simple OMEGA BEAM.

You keep repeating yourself, and keep ignoring the context of what was going on.

FACT: Darkseid as a NEW GOD can warp reality at his behest. Hence how he gave birth to Apok. Despite HIGHFATHER's opposition he blinks the world into oblivion.

These are not facts. He is not shown to warp reality. The actual creation of Apokolips is neither shown nor described. He destroyed the old world, but referring it to a "blink" is unsubstantiated. You again put "HIGHFATHER" in all caps as if that should mean something significant. Again, exactly how powerful has Highfather been shown to be?

Oh, he also tanks the explosion.

He survived. We have absolutely no indication of what condition he was in afterwards or how difficult it was for him. The issue says there was darkness and silence for "an age," and we don't see Darkseid again until Apokolips has already been created.

FACT: Destroys the impenetrable Fortress of Solitude with a simple OMEGA blast ALL THE WAY FROM APOKOLIPS. Right after he literally SNIFFS it out.

That is also not a fact. We do not know with any kind of certainty where Darkseid was when he fired the Omega Beams. The Fortress of Solitude is also obviously not impenetrable.

FACT: DARKSEID destroys worlds and their heroes effortlessly out of pure sport. Prying open portals into other realities WITH HIS BARE HANDS.

It is not a fact that it is effortless; the issue does not state that anywhere. That is your own insertion.

I don't know why people like to bring up the instance where he fought the heroes from earth prime in a poor attempt to low rank Darkseid when in fact it's a huge notch for the JLA and how powerful they are (individually and as a team) that they were able to survive an onslaught from a NEW GOD that has destroyed every other world and their heroes that he has gone up against. Even then the best they could do was BFR back to APOK.

People bring it up because that's the only really solid fight we have for him that involves other characters whose power levels we actually know something about.

You don't have to agree with any interpretation. There is none to be had. There is nothing to be interpreted in anything.

THOSE ARE ALL FACTS. They all happened whether you want to accept it or not.

This is just not true. You yourself are liberally making many interpretations on Darkseid's behalf just from his Villain's Month issue.

Yes. Darkseid is a bonnefide threat to the omniverse on his lonesome. And he is indeed a NEW GOD.

You absolutely did not show or argue anything that would show him to be an omniversal threat.

And you keep typing the term "NEW GOD" in all caps as well, again, as if it means something. It doesn't. Darkseid is only as powerful as he is. Whether he's an old god, new god, or some other sort of god doesn't matter. Orion is also a New God. So is Desaad. New Gods are all over the place in power level, so the term itself isn't especially telling in that regard.

@blazinghell:

I realised everything you wrote was a load of crap after you described Darkseid as a threat to the Omniverse.

Someone like MJJ or HoM Wanda can be described as an Omniversal threat, but Darkseid is nowhere near that level.

I never understood why people use word Skyfather like it's some lvl of power.

Zeus wins.

I feel as if Odin and Thor although great characters, they get to much attention, and I would like for marvel to make Zeus and Hercules a bit more powerful to match the Norse gods, as Zeus in powerful is currently only looking around high herald level or transcendent level.

Zeus doesn't have many feats :/ though it is repeated he is equal to Odin and even Dormmamu

@eternityx: actually technically he is an omniversal threat as DC is only 52 universes and in the scan below we can see it being called an omniverse

@mikep12:

So? That definitely still doesn't show Darkseid as being omniversal.

@eternityx: Kind of does due to DC laws your using marvels definition this is DC's

@mikep12: just because it says "omniversal threat" doesnt mean anything, hes not shown anything that makes him close to omniversal, Mad jim jaspers was described as omniversal, that doesnt make it true.

@glubgluby: it does for DC since anyone in DC who can destroy a universe can be considered omniversal as DC is only 52 universes so technically yeah it does in DC

@blazinghell:

i agree but i doubt very many others will. DC and Marvel are different universes but people use the same logic to define characters of both.

@sog7dc: Yeah I find people have a tendency to just use marvel logic when it comes to battles

exactly. they dnt take into account things like....say apollo was tired and weakened after a fight with diana and hel......you think any old farmer of earth could kill them and take their power? but since darkseid hasnt gone around eating blackholes he gets no respect.

Like i said we are reading the same comics but you are interpreting with a bias intent to overblow Darkseid capabilities.

Darkseid never even fought a single Old God at their full power he only stole their power when they were almost dying including the god he killed using the omega beam.

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Lets see, first Darkseid wishpers into Old Gods ears and make them fight each other.

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Old gods were down on the ground, unable to move, asking for prayer and were so desperate that they were going to give Darkseid anything in return for it.

Darkseid steals their power by killing them with a spear kind of thing that he used for farming, shows us how depowered those gods were, even if we assume the gods were so powerful.

If ever in doubt the farming spear was shown earlier in panel here.

And when he was farming

So Darkseid is literally killing Old Gods, in their condition, when he has no power of any sort so to speak with farming tool, and you expect us to interpret it as a great feat and how all powerful the gods where?

Because someone with no powers with a farmin sphere can kill extremely powerful gods??

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Then there is the instance of him using OB to kill another old god

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The god was already powerless, going to die, as he says right on panel.

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And then you are saying he recreated Apokolips and entire dimension, when we dont even know how he did it, and the worlds were already getting destroyed when Old Gods fought.

We also know it took him quite a while to actually re-create Apokolips, however, he did it.

"Silence closed. A deep long silence, wrapped in massive darkness. It was this way for an age"

Compare that to how genuine skyfathers in marvel, willy nilly, bring back their entire realm at whim, you see a very different picture and before you say on they are DC pantheon and dont have to on the same footing as marvel, its a DC Gods vs Marvel God thread, so for this thread they have to be.

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That however is Odin, whose feat are better than Zeus but Odin surely isnt the only one to do so. Thor , with Odin Force, brought back Asgard just as well

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"Where there is Thor, There is Asgard"

And Zeus was pretty clearly shown as King Thor's superior during Marvel : The End (i'll look for the issue if anyone is interested)

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Then you claim he went around taking over Earth, easily? Really when the details of the issue show exact opposite.

First Superman himself is said to be just as powerful as Darkseid.

And when he takes over the world he does so with his army, or did you miss the massive amount of Parademons shown on panel?

Certainly doesnt look anything like it was so easy for him.

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And you are talking about opening portal to other universes as making him what some omniversal threat, Thor and Hulk have both done that, but more relevant so did Neptune, acting on the order of Zues. He open a portal from Hades, a different dimension to Earth, and pull Namor into Hades

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And if in doubt its clearly said on panel that Hades is a whole differnet dimension.

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And your argument , or supposedly proof for Old Gods having control over their reality was the fact that when they fought world started dying? What would you say about Silver Surfer and Thor, when they found entire world was shattered affecting multiple worlds around the vicinity.

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Or skyfathers shaking world with arguments.

"When skyfather shake with rage. The World does likewise"

And they werent even allowed to fight, thats just them having arguments, as they were in Infinite Embassy, where everyone has to come in peace or else Living Tribunal you slap you senseless.

"But everyone agrees on one thing. You come in peace"

"Otherwise the Living Tribunal gets a tad touchy and generally speaking, unless you want your existence privileges revoked, that's a bad idea"

I would have normally chucked the whole shaking world thing as hyperbole, but if you are taking every minor tidbit about Darkseid and Old Gods are genuine, despite them being killed when weaked by a farmer with no power with a farming tool, i suppose i am every bit entitled.

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so yeah no i still think you are over-blowing Darksied, and not considering who he is fighting in the thread.

The End counts?

It evident does, because while the story was later chucked into being non-canon, marvel flipped flopped, because The End has been reference twice in a canon comics and 2 bio, saying while it happened in a different 4321, exactly the same thing happened in 616.

Thats just a case of marvel screwing things up, made even worse by the fact that when Jim Starlin, was originally called for interview, in Newsarama, he clearly used Marvel The End as canon, even explaining he intentionally left is ambigious whether Thanos had died in the end or not, allowing him to now show that Thanos hadnt died.

The whole of Thanos series, from Marvel The End, actually shown Thanos being able to talk and even hold hands with death, as couples, when Death only sort of patched up with Thanos on Marvel The End, once you take that as non-canon, Thanos relationship with Death, which was derived by Starlin based on the same story because impossible to explain.

One of few problems marvel has had, because writer wrote the story with one intention and editor intepreated the story with another.

@killemall: Thanks. The way I heard it the Living Tribunal fanboys complained so they said something "similar" happened in 616.

@mikep12: no that makes him multiversal

PC Darkseid wins, not sure about New-52 and Pre-Crisis Darkseid loses.

@glubgluby: by DC it makes him omniversal stop using marvel logic for a dc character

Zeusie pie wins

@freefa11 said:

@baltoro: You can find images of Odin getting brought to his knees by Thor as well. Odin absolutely has much lower showings than the galaxy busting level people always talk about.

The reason people view Zeus as his equal is because pretty much since he first showed up, the writers have been saying over and over and over and over, without fail, that he is Odin's equal. We all know he doesn't actually have feats like Odin, but at a certain point, I think we can believe that Marvel Editorial has essentially defined him as being equal to Odin. The One Above All doesn't really have a lot of actual feats as well, but we accept that he is meant to be literally omnipotent in the Marvel Universe.

Odin was actually being pummeled with his own power in that scan, then he took said power away with a simple command. There's no way I'm giving Zeus feats based off of Odin. First of all, Zeus didn't earn those feats. Second of all, if he had Odin's feats then he would beat Darkseid. Now if there is anything on-panel saying Zeus can do anything Odin can or to a similar extent then I'd like to see it.

Perhaps Zeus's lack of feats tells a story. Zeus tends to sit around and let his subordinates do all the work and fighting. Odin on the otherhand is always out on the field flexing his power whether it's one shotting Silver Surfer or throwing down with Galactus. Zeus must have grown soft since Hulk knocked him through a few walls with one punch...Odin wouldn't have budged.

@mikep12:

So you're saying Darkseid is a Unverse buster?

@db14: Hello, please refrain from swearing or using expletives, as its against the ComicVine rules. Grawlixes are allowed substitutes however if you wish to use those (f*&*^er, f--k) etc. Cheers.

Darkseid.

@eternityx: he doesn't need to be as he and his army have already conquered multiple universes and now he just continues his conquest

Its not that you arent showing what happened, but rather presenting it in the brightest possible light to show Darkseid appear a lot more impressive than what he was actually shown to be, and you even went on to claim there were no other way of interpreting the said even when the fact remains otherwise.

what it says and shows on the scan, thats my point. The God he killed where near dead, down on the ground, unable to move or retaliate, heck helpless and unable to retaliate against a farmer with no power whatsoever to speak of.

Heck not a single God was able to fight back at all, am i all of a sudden supposedly to believe a being described as a simple mud grubber few pages back, all of a sudden without a power boost, became so powerful than gods couldnt fight back against him, or that the gods themselves had nothing left in them so they couldnt fight back and any amp he got for gods with minimal power, would likely be minimal.

Heck we see Darkseid who got his power from 10+ gods (11 to say the least) being fought on near equal footing by Highfather who got his power from 1 god.

A reasonable calculation would show Darkseid at the very least 11 times more powerful than Highfather, and thats not how a fight between A and B would go if B is at the very least 11 times more powerful, you would expect him to outright one shot Highfather, and thats not the case.

Only reasonable explanation i can think of is that since the gods he absorbed were already so depowered any amp he got from them, however, powerful the gods themselves may be (and i still disagree on somehow over selling gods power based on 1 panel and nothing else).

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Now you second supposedly uber feat from Darkseid was being able to actually take down a primodial god with 1 blast, not including the fact that the primodial god was already dead and dying and would have died regardless of what Darkseid did.

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You are trying to interpret this as some mega awesome feat, when not only is the power of so called Old God showcased, apart from 1 panel (skyfather being called omnipotent comes to mind if you want a similar feat from Zeus) , killing someone who is already dead and dying is hardly an impressive feat, let alone as impressive as you are trying so hard to sell.

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You third feat from Darkseid was him being able to keep portal to other dimension open, which is something replicated by both Thor and Hulk, and i showed you a similar feat dont by Neptune on a whim, even if you want to go only on DC the same feat was replicated by First Born (who i am still convinced, different name or otherwise, its just New 52 version of Ares).

Now i am not saying First Born isnt powerful, he is, it took Wonder Woman, Orion and War together to beat him, but no one interprets him anywhere close to omniversal power-house as you are trying to suggest Darkseid is.

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Then your next feat is saying Darkseid took over various earth, not considering the technology and army he has at his disposal when a scan right on the face is comparing his power with Superman.

Do i think Darkseid would beat Superman, New 52 version should everytime. But that doesnt mean it would be easy for Darkseid to take over the whole world, and nor is the panel shown so.

If it was so easy for Darkseid to take over entire world, why did he send armies of Parademons?

When you take into account, armies, techonology everything on his behest, yeah the feat stops looking as powerful as you sound.

Thats not even including we know very little on how he took over those worlds or killed those Superman.

A simple parallel, King Hyperion was said to killed alternate reality Galactus just as well, alongside every version of every heroes, in differnet realities. Yet someone like Blue Marvel solos him.

Now you are either interpret it as Blue Marvel being a lot more powerful than Galactus, or you can say while we dont know how they were defeated, its come as a huge questionmark.

The same should to true for Darkseid.

Heck one of Thor villian, Gorr, when back into time and killed the supposedly primodial god that evidently created the universe, completely off panel. Feat like that are easily questionable.

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So that leaves us with

1. Darkseid destroying a planet as a side effect of his battle with Highfather, a planet that was already having trouble containing the fight of old gods. That doesnt put him anywhere above Silver Surfer, Thor, heck even MsMarvel (Binary)

2. And next would be somehow recreating the planet, with details left stark unclear (although you somehow forcefully interpreted that shows him warping reality) but made sure that it took quite a bit of time)

His feat are over-blown if you see the issue as it is and somehow interpret Darkseid as anywhere close to omniversal threat, which would put him on the same pedistal as someone like HOM Wanda, who erased entire universeS.

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As per you saying you didnt say anything about Zeus, you are coming in and posting panel to suggest Darkseid is powerful in a threat including Zeus vs Darkseid, i think everyone would interpret it as you trying to make a case of why Darkseid is more powerful then Zeus, unless you make it clear that it wasnt your intention.

I interpreted your attempt as such and i am pretty sure so did most people.

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Lastly Darkseid having limited showing is fine, which is understandable and if that was your first sentence posted i would agree with you right off the bat.

Zeus himself has very limited feat, he just go around ordering gods , the only thing we know about Zues is , he isnt quite up there with the likes of Galactus, Mikaboshi etc, but can take on entire Avengers and take them down, at will with 1 move, while Avengers finding them stark helpless to even hurt him.

We also know he is the skyfather, and the most powerful of Greek gods, when we have seen his subordinate, defeat guys like Stranger, or Elder Gods (The Wild One, who was going to warp Earth and eventually 616 in his image).

Based on what we know, Zeus should be more powerful, its just that Zeus simply doesnt go fighting anyone.

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Yeah New 52 Darkseid is being blown way out of proportion

@mikep12: im not using "marvel logic" im using plain old logic. its the dang definition man!

@glubgluby: no DC says it's an omniverse marvel said that an omniverse is infinite universes which you can't apply to dc characters

@mikep12: regardless, darkseid isnt an omniversal threat, by your definition or the actual definition.

Zeus wins. New 52 DS isnt that great.

@glubgluby: omniversal isn't even a real word this is dc's defenition as dc considers an omniversd 52 universes and so it apply's to there character

@mikep12: it is a word, and it doesnt matter, n52 Darkseid hasnt shown himself to be omni/multiversal in power at all yet. so regardless of how you or dc or a dictionary would define it, darkseid isnt. He loses to zeus. He doesnt have the showings to compete.

@glubgluby: taking the entire JL is a feat he could easily use that could give him a feat even superman would give zeus a right if he were immune to logic

@mikep12: and zeus solod the avengers without getting a scratch as was shown earlier. He wins.

@killemall: I can actually counter one thing you said kill. If Darkseids powers come from 11 gods but this one god while dying was able to provide Highfather with enough energy to surpass that or equal that this suggest a feat for that and Darkseids Omega Beams are no joke but they simply bounce off him so at least one of those gods were not exactly featless and probably was the leader of those gods

@glubgluby: I also recall the account he fought on ends with thor for months and could you specify the memebers of the team cause the only heavy hitters I see are thor, she hulk, and namor. DC characters far suppase them

@mikep12: Im not going to touch the whole thor is stronger than superman debate because its more trouble than its worth.

Bottom line, all darkseid has in the new52 is killing a bunch of featless gods, beating up the JL, (but still losing via BFR) and blowing up a planet or two. Thats it. He needs more feats to contest with a skyfather.

Thats certainly one way of looking at it, but there is of course another, and i believe a more reasonable interpretation, the god that Darkseid killed with omega beam was near dead, about to die even says so to Highfather before being fired.

Killing a god who himself knew and admitted he was going to die, and use the last vestige of his power to empower Highfather, its hard to interpret is a sa huge feat.

Dont get me wrong though i am not saying Darkseid is weak, or that his OB are not impressive. It did one shot Superman, so pretty impressive at the level, but no where as impressive as Blazing is trying to make it sound, and that even if we assume the gods were mega powerful.

@glubgluby: yet you haven't shown durability feats whatsoever but a punch from hulk sent this guy flying but just ticked him off. RIght. A punch like that shouldn't have phased him at all especially someone who is suppose to be on par with odin who has smack thanos around and him and hulk are about stronger and seems his best strength is lifting a mountain even though many others have done it with ease also he had to grow larger just to lift it or the scan makes it seem like it. You calling him a skyfather while is makes no sense in the situation as you are also comparing him to the likes of odin and sutur as you said skyfather not Zeus. This is the equivalent of me saying Batman wins cause he's Batman or Silver Surfer wins cause power cosmic