#1 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1495 posts) - - Show Bio

Battle in a Neutral Universe.

No Prep for Each.

Both at Full Power.

Random Encounter.

Both Bloodlusted and have Morals Off.

VS

Who Wins?

#2 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

One corporeal character vs 3 incorporeal characters? Hm. Doesn't sound fair at all.

#3 Posted by Killemall (18598 posts) - - Show Bio

If you can affect the very fabric of reality, space and time and even erase and remake it, i see no reason to believe Zero Hour Parallax cant affect Vishanti.

Zero Hour Parallax FTW.

#4 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Vishi are all outside of that which you have mentioned. And besides, I'm sure Zero Hour tapped into the Time Stream used Cause and Effect to warp said reality and remake it. But the Vishi can effect time too, I'm sure.

#5 Edited by Killemall (18598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

@Killemall: Vishi are all outside of that which you have mentioned.

Inconsequential, where Vishanti live should have no bearing.

Point you brought up was they are incorporeal and hence cant be hurt, so is Spectre as well as space and time itself and Zero Hour Parallax was able to affect them all just the same.

And besides, I'm sure Zero Hour tapped into the Time Stream used Cause and Effect to warp said reality and remake it.

He absorbed the energy of COIE first, then unleased Entrophy which he was consciously controlling. Not sure how that changes anything.

But the Vishi can effect time too, I'm sure.

This helps them in a fight , how?

#6 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Magethor said:

@Killemall: Vishi are all outside of that which you have mentioned.

Inconsequential, where Vishanti live should have no bearing.

Ok then you tell me how Parallax's power will bare any significance to any of the three when they are themselves inconsequential to the effects of fabric of time and space.

Point you brought up was they are incorporeal and hence cant be hurt, so is Spectre as well as space and time itself and Zero Hour Parallax was able to affect them all just the same.

So? Captain Picard can effect time and space as well, but he does it the same way Parallax does it. But calculation and tapping into the time stream. Spectre isn't incorporeal. He's the physical embodiment of vengence. Sorta like Ghost Rider. If Spectre was truly incorporeal he wouldn't have to assume physical form every so often as he does as necessary. I believe the Specre is physical as Galactus is physical and can use his powers to decrease his density so that he can be intangible only during the times he wants to.

He absorbed the energy of COIE first, then unleased Entrophy which he was consciously controlling. Not sure how that changes anything.

Which proves my point that he was tapping into other sources.

This helps them in a fight , how?

By targeting the mortal Hal Jordan through all timelines forcing him to change careers into something other than a Green Lantern and then containing the Parallax Entity and all concept of fear into another dimension.

#7 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1495 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#8 Posted by NeonGameWave (7794 posts) - - Show Bio

Zero Hour Parallax takes this due to overall raw power.

#9 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

If you erase the concept of Fear, Parallax won't exist. However, this logic does not apply towards the Vishi because they are not concepts nor are they an embodiment of any kind of concept. They are simply entities that exist in a higher plane of existence.

#10 Posted by eisjfiejss (513 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

If you erase the concept of Fear, Parallax won't exist. However, this logic does not apply towards the Vishi because they are not concepts nor are they an embodiment of any kind of concept. They are simply entities that exist in a higher plane of existence.

Wrong...if you erase the concept of fear, Zero Hour Parallax will still exist.

#11 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

@eisjfiejss said:

@Magethor said:

If you erase the concept of Fear, Parallax won't exist. However, this logic does not apply towards the Vishi because they are not concepts nor are they an embodiment of any kind of concept. They are simply entities that exist in a higher plane of existence.

Wrong...if you erase the concept of fear, Zero Hour Parallax will still exist.

Still exist as long as someone fears. If no one fears anymore and the concept completely destroyed, there would be nothing for it to leach on therefore it's gone. Just look at it's wrap sheet. Throughout its 19 years of publication, Parallax has been contained through most of its career. When has the Vishianti ever been contained throughout their 50 years?

None.

#12 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

Parallax wins this.

#13 Posted by Killemall (18598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

Ok then you tell me how Parallax's power will bare any significance to any of the three when they are themselves inconsequential to the effects of fabric of time and space.

The same way Living Tribunal's power worked perfectly on Solarith, the same way Eternity's powers worked perfectly on Nightmare, all being outside space and time.

So? Captain Picard can effect time and space as well, but he does it the same way Parallax does it. But calculation and tapping into the time stream. Spectre isn't incorporeal. He's the physical embodiment of vengence. Sorta like Ghost Rider. If Spectre was truly incorporeal he wouldn't have to assume physical form every so often as he does as necessary. I believe the Specre is physical as Galactus is physical and can use his powers to decrease his density so that he can be intangible only during the times he wants to.

I dont know who Captain Picard is but its certainly inconsequential.

Spectre is incorporate, that what pretty much Spectre means. He is god's wrath given manifest.

Which proves my point that he was tapping into other sources.

What point? The whole reason Zero Hour Parallax is kept as a seperate entity from normal Parallax is because this is the version that was tapping into other sources and hence is more powerful.

By targeting the mortal Hal Jordan through all timelines forcing him to change careers into something other than a Green Lantern and then containing the Parallax Entity and all concept of fear into another dimension.

Proof that Vishanti can affect entire timeline? Let alone of a being who is already bonded by living embodiment of fear?

Not to mention Zero Hour Parallax himself was outside space and time.

#14 Posted by highaccuser (7010 posts) - - Show Bio

Parallex harnessed his own emotional power, space time control, and most importantly the gl central battery. The entire gl corps only controled a fraction of the batterys power. I daresay zero hour parallex could beat the combined might of the promiel gods (12 galactus level beings)

#15 Posted by Killemall (18598 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser said:

Parallex harnessed his own emotional power, space time control, and most importantly the gl central battery. The entire gl corps only controled a fraction of the batterys power. I daresay zero hour parallex could beat the combined might of the promiel gods (12 galactus level beings)

At his peak, i honestly think he could.

#16 Posted by Magethor (1054 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@highaccuser said:

Parallex harnessed his own emotional power, space time control, and most importantly the gl central battery. The entire gl corps only controled a fraction of the batterys power. I daresay zero hour parallex could beat the combined might of the promiel gods (12 galactus level beings)

At his peak, i honestly think he could.

Of course he can beat those 12 Promiel aliens at his peak, because his peak is harnessing powers of other sources.

Parallax can beat Galactus too, because Galactus can fear and its will can be manipulated.

However, anything in Marvel that is above Galactus, Parallax can not beat as easily.... Especially given the OP rules which say, "NO PREP".

@Killemall said:

The same way Living Tribunal's power worked perfectly on Solarith, the same way Eternity's powers worked perfectly on Nightmare, all being outside space and time.

Not quite. The Living Tribunal and Eternity didn't need prep or Time lag to execute their powers. Slorioth and Nightmare were banished to Oblivion because The Living Tribunal and Eternity can summon Oblivion with a thought.

I dont know who Captain Picard is but its certainly inconsequential.
Spectre is incorporate, that what pretty much Spectre means. He is god's wrath given manifest.

Spectre is not incorporeal. If he was incorporeal then how was he able to get physically handed by other characters throughout his 70 year career? Having a closer look at it, almost all of DC's characters are physical in nature save that being for the Presence itself.

What point? The whole reason Zero Hour Parallax is kept as a seperate entity from normal Parallax is because this is the version that was tapping into other sources and hence is more powerful.

My point is that Zero Hour has to tap and utilizes the powers of other sources. It's dependent on it to get more powerful. The Vishanti do not. All three of them are neigh omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and the ONLY way to borrow power from them is to invoke for their power by pretty much praying to them for that power, and I doubt Parallax prays.

Proof that Vishanti can affect entire timeline? Let alone of a being who is already bonded by living embodiment of fear?
Not to mention Zero Hour Parallax himself was outside space and time.

He wasn't outside of time. He was directly inside the Timestream manipulating it from within. Ok, once a upon a time, Dr. Strange had a little fight with Beyonder. The Beyonder was destroying places and Dr. Strange was invoking the Vishanti restore everything back to normal from a previous time. All the locations the Beyonder destroyed was reverted back to their normality through a time spell. Therefore, Vishanti can affect time.

And it wouldn't of had mattered if Hal was already bonded with Parallax or not. If Hal is destroyed or manipulated to change course in the past, then his present and future selves wouldn't of had existed to become Parallax.

#17 Posted by eisjfiejss (513 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

Parallax can beat Galactus too, because Galactus can fear and its will can be manipulated.

Zero Hour Parallax does not need fear to defeat Galactus...or anyone else for that matter. He didn't even use any power relating to fear in Zero Hour and still one shotted Time Trapper in Trapper's dimension where he is supposedly omnipotent.

#18 Posted by Killemall (18598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Magethor said:

Of course he can beat those 12 Promiel aliens at his peak, because his peak is harnessing powers of other sources.

Parallax can beat Galactus too, because Galactus can fear and its will can be manipulated.

However, anything in Marvel that is above Galactus, Parallax can not beat as easily.... Especially given the OP rules which say, "NO PREP".

I am not convinced Vishanti is much powerful than Galactus.

And no i dont think anything that is above Galactus can beat Parallax, be it with or without prep.

Not quite. The Living Tribunal and Eternity didn't need prep or Time lag to execute their powers. Slorioth and Nightmare were banished to Oblivion because The Living Tribunal and Eternity can summon Oblivion with a thought.

I still dont understand, so whats stopping Zero Hour Parallax from banishing Vishanti to say Entrophy. I still dont buy that they cant be hurt.

My point is that Zero Hour has to tap and utilizes the powers of other sources. It's dependent on it to get more powerful. The Vishanti do not. All three of them are neigh omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and the ONLY way to borrow power from them is to invoke for their power by pretty much praying to them for that power, and I doubt Parallax prays.

Again inconsequential. He became Zero Hour Parallax by tapping into those powers and at the peak of him powers should have all of those powers.

If you can show feats from visanti to prove they have peformed multiversal feat i am all ears, till then this means little in a debate forum

He wasn't outside of time. He was directly inside the Timestream manipulating it from within. Ok, once a upon a time, Dr. Strange had a little fight with Beyonder. The Beyonder was destroying places and Dr. Strange was invoking the Vishanti restore everything back to normal from a previous time. All the locations the Beyonder destroyed was reverted back to their normality through a time spell. Therefore, Vishanti can affect time.

Here are scans of Zero Hour after he destroyed the universe outside of space and time

I dont remember Dr Strange ever fighting Beyonder, so issue number/ scans please.

And it wouldn't of had mattered if Hal was already bonded with Parallax or not. If Hal is destroyed or manipulated to change course in the past, then his present and future selves wouldn't of had existed to become Parallax.

No it doesnt, going in the past and killing someone makes a different divergent time line, doesnt change the present.

This scan will explain better:

#19 Posted by thanosii (1282 posts) - - Show Bio

agamotto the weakest of the vishanti stalemated a well fed galactus. osthur is equal to cthlon whose " mere presence would destroy the universe" haggoth is a old one also as powerful. These guys a powerful enough to destroy the universes as side effect of their fight with sliroth. ZHP hasnt that kind of raw power as he had to manipulate time streams to achieve an effect. The vishanti can also affect times streams as seen by the fact that dr strange fought on their behalf for 1000yrs and was then returned to a time stream of his choice.

#20 Posted by I_am_Warlock (289 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanosii said:

agamotto the weakest of the vishanti stalemated a well fed galactus. osthur is equal to cthlon whose " mere presence would destroy the universe" haggoth is a old one also as powerful. These guys a powerful enough to destroy the universes as side effect of their fight with sliroth. ZHP hasnt that kind of raw power as he had to manipulate time streams to achieve an effect. The vishanti can also affect times streams as seen by the fact that dr strange fought on their behalf for 1000yrs and was then returned to a time stream of his choice.

Agamotto stalemated a hungry, weakened Galactus in his own realm, and Chthon doesnt have feat apart from big statement, in fact when Chthon came to earth during Mighty Avengers and ran circles around the earth he couldnt even fully warp earth let alone the entire universe.

Solarith is a genuine power house but all we have is a statement from Vishanti who never at any point even fought solarith and had to summon Living Tribunal.

Spectre himself alone has better feats than all of the people you have mentioned, same Spectre who couldnt beat Parallax despite him having used most of his powers to re-create DC timeline

#21 Posted by lol (5167 posts) - - Show Bio

Zero Hour Parallax takes this due to overall raw power.

#22 Posted by TehStranger (836 posts) - - Show Bio

Parallax