Yog-Sothoth vs Dream (endless)

Lets see if you guys can figure this out, and see what your arguments are.  
 
Who wins?  

Dream because even the old ones have to go to sleep sometimes.

Glad someone posted....

Dream could get help from Azathoth anyways.

Yog-Sothoth.

@kingkronos said:

Yog-Sothoth stomps.

@Crom-Cruach said:

Dream because even the old ones have to go to sleep sometimes.

what? no they don't, Old ones are elder gods. Yogi is and outer-god. Outer-gods>Elder-gods.

@Super_Perfect_Cell said:

Dream could get help from Azathoth anyways.

what possible connection could he possibly have to Azathoth.

@Killer_of_trolls said:

@Crom-Cruach said:

Dream because even the old ones have to go to sleep sometimes.

what? no they don't, Old ones are elder gods. Yogi is and outer-god. Outer-gods>Elder-gods.

This is completely wrong. The Great Old Ones are distinctly different to and bitter enemies with the Elder Gods.

@Baldy said:

@Killer_of_trolls said:

@Crom-Cruach said:

Dream because even the old ones have to go to sleep sometimes.

what? no they don't, Old ones are elder gods. Yogi is and outer-god. Outer-gods>Elder-gods.

This is completely wrong. The Great Old Ones are distinctly different to and bitter enemies with the Elder Gods.

I don't care what anyone other than H.P.Lovecraft tells/writes. and you can just take what I said as "elder god level" instead of "elder gods" if you prefer. However There is a dualistic notion inserted into The Necronomicon that is completely absent in Lovecraft’s work. Lovecraft’s “Old Ones” were primordial beings, beyond good and evil. That was the essence of their power. In The Necronomicon, the “Great Old Ones” have been split into two factions: the “Elder Gods” and the “Ancient Ones” - the good guys and the bad guys.

according to L.K. Barns and I qoute:

“The Necronomicon is, according to Lovecraft’s tales, a volume written in Damascus in the Eighth Century, A.D., by a person called the ‘Mad Arab’, Abdul Alhazred. It must run roughly 800 pages in length, as there is a reference in one of the stories concerning some lacunae on a page in the 700’s. It had been copied and reprinted in various languages - the story goes - among them Latin, Greek and English. Basically there are two ‘sets’ of gods in the mythos: the Elder Gods, about whom not much is written, save that they are a stellar race that occasionally comes to the rescue of man, and which corresponds to theChristian ‘light’; and the Ancient Ones, about whom much is told, sometimes in great detail, who correspond to Darkness.
These latter are the Evil Gods who wish nothing but ill for the Race of Man, and who constantly strive to break into our world through a gate or door that leads from the Outside In. There are certain people among us, who are devotees of the Ancient Ones, and who try to open the Gate, so that this evidently repulsive organization may once again rule the Earth. Chief among this is Cthulhu, typified as a Sea Monster, dwelling in the Great Deep, a sort of primeval Ocean...”

In the end I couldn't give a truck.

@Killer_of_trolls:

While I think the Elder Gods are lame and ruin the feel of Lovecraft's uncaring universe, you're still wrong. The Elder Gods didn't really even exist with the exception of Nodens until post-lovecraftian works, and they have always been a different group to the Great Old Ones.

@Baldy: I know that, the rights for "Elder Gods" go to August Derleth, it's no secret. Now you are wrong for getting mixed-up between Great Old ones and ancient ones. here is a good aticle on it: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienciareal/cienciareal15.htm

@Killer_of_trolls said:

what possible connection could he possibly have to Azathoth.

To be honest I wasn't expecting anyone to still care about this thread. But my reasoning was that since Azathoth is always dreaming, and the entire Lovecraftian multiverse is his dream, Dream could use that to his advantage somehow.

@Super_Perfect_Cell said:

@Killer_of_trolls said:

what possible connection could he possibly have to Azathoth.

To be honest I wasn't expecting anyone to still care about this thread. But my reasoning was that since Azathoth is always dreaming, and the entire Lovecraftian multiverse is his dream, Dream could use that to his advantage somehow.

Well, it's a noble attempt, but given that Azathoth is effectively the one above all of the lovecraft multiverse, hijacking his dream may be a bit difficult.

@Super_Perfect_Cell said:

@Killer_of_trolls said:

what possible connection could he possibly have to Azathoth.

To be honest I wasn't expecting anyone to still care about this thread. But my reasoning was that since Azathoth is always dreaming, and the entire Lovecraftian multiverse is his dream, Dream could use that to his advantage somehow.

Dream is pretty much the embodiment of reality, which is only Azathoth's dream.

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

Well, it's a noble attempt, but given that Azathoth is effectively the one above all of the lovecraft multiverse, hijacking his dream may be a bit difficult.

I wouldn't say Toaa. Since he's not truly omnipotent, seeing as he sleeps and dreams, and IIRC YS is above him.

@kingkronos said:

@Super_Perfect_Cell said:

@Killer_of_trolls said:

what possible connection could he possibly have to Azathoth.

To be honest I wasn't expecting anyone to still care about this thread. But my reasoning was that since Azathoth is always dreaming, and the entire Lovecraftian multiverse is his dream, Dream could use that to his advantage somehow.

Dream is pretty much the embodiment of reality, which is only Azathoth's dream.

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

Well, it's a noble attempt, but given that Azathoth is effectively the one above all of the lovecraft multiverse, hijacking his dream may be a bit difficult.

I wouldn't say Toaa. Since he's not truly omnipotent, seeing as he sleeps and dreams, and IIRC YS is above him.

There is quite a substantial debate as to whether Azathoth or Yog-sothoth is the top dog in Lovecraft's works.

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@kingkronos said:

@Super_Perfect_Cell said:

@Killer_of_trolls said:

what possible connection could he possibly have to Azathoth.

To be honest I wasn't expecting anyone to still care about this thread. But my reasoning was that since Azathoth is always dreaming, and the entire Lovecraftian multiverse is his dream, Dream could use that to his advantage somehow.

Dream is pretty much the embodiment of reality, which is only Azathoth's dream.

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

Well, it's a noble attempt, but given that Azathoth is effectively the one above all of the lovecraft multiverse, hijacking his dream may be a bit difficult.

I wouldn't say Toaa. Since he's not truly omnipotent, seeing as he sleeps and dreams, and IIRC YS is above him.

There is quite a substantial debate as to whether Azathoth or Yog-sothoth is the top dog in Lovecraft's works.

True, but that doesn't mean either of them is equal in power to Toaa. Seeing as the top marvel characters have bigger scale (megaverse/Omniverse).

@kingkronos said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@kingkronos said:

@Super_Perfect_Cell said:

@Killer_of_trolls said:

what possible connection could he possibly have to Azathoth.

To be honest I wasn't expecting anyone to still care about this thread. But my reasoning was that since Azathoth is always dreaming, and the entire Lovecraftian multiverse is his dream, Dream could use that to his advantage somehow.

Dream is pretty much the embodiment of reality, which is only Azathoth's dream.

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

Well, it's a noble attempt, but given that Azathoth is effectively the one above all of the lovecraft multiverse, hijacking his dream may be a bit difficult.

I wouldn't say Toaa. Since he's not truly omnipotent, seeing as he sleeps and dreams, and IIRC YS is above him.

There is quite a substantial debate as to whether Azathoth or Yog-sothoth is the top dog in Lovecraft's works.

True, but that doesn't mean either of them is equal in power to Toaa. Seeing as the top marvel characters have bigger scale (megaverse/Omniverse).

There is only one omniverse, hence the term *omni.*

@Kamal Re'x the Abductor: Marvel defines the term differently. It means multiple megaverses.

But actually the term refers to every fictional, every possible including our own universe. Including Marvel, Dc, Image, SW, etc..

@kingkronos said:

@Kamal Re'x the Abductor: Marvel defines the term differently. It means multiple megaverses.

But actually the term refers to every fictional, every possible including our own universe. Including Marvel, Dc, Image, SW, etc..

The latter is the more widely used and likely more correct definition.

@Kamal Re'x the Abductor said:

@kingkronos said:

@Kamal Re'x the Abductor: Marvel defines the term differently. It means multiple megaverses.

But actually the term refers to every fictional, every possible including our own universe. Including Marvel, Dc, Image, SW, etc..

The latter is the more widely used and likely more correct definition.

It is the correct definition. It's just Marvel defines the term differently, that's all. But still the Omniverse is far greater than a multiverse.

@kingkronos said:

@Kamal Re'x the Abductor said:

@kingkronos said:

@Kamal Re'x the Abductor: Marvel defines the term differently. It means multiple megaverses.

But actually the term refers to every fictional, every possible including our own universe. Including Marvel, Dc, Image, SW, etc..

The latter is the more widely used and likely more correct definition.

It is the correct definition. It's just Marvel defines the term differently, that's all. But still the Omniverse is far greater than a multiverse.

I know.

Also, what Marvel calls a megaverse is in science called a Metaverse. You're choice on what you want to use, they're only one letter apart haha.

@Kamal Re'x the Abductor said:

@kingkronos said:

@Kamal Re'x the Abductor said:

@kingkronos said:

@Kamal Re'x the Abductor: Marvel defines the term differently. It means multiple megaverses.

But actually the term refers to every fictional, every possible including our own universe. Including Marvel, Dc, Image, SW, etc..

The latter is the more widely used and likely more correct definition.

It is the correct definition. It's just Marvel defines the term differently, that's all. But still the Omniverse is far greater than a multiverse.

I know.

Also, what Marvel calls a megaverse is in science called a Metaverse. You're choice on what you want to use, they're only one letter apart haha.

That should give you the precise definition of Marvel's multiverses, megaverses, Omniverse.

@kingkronos: It doesn't say an Omniverse IS a collection of Megaverses, it say there are with in it. there is one apple with-in two apples, that doesn't mean two apples is one apple.(sorry, this is the internet, I have to speak to everyone like they're 5).

@Killer_of_trolls: It says that within the Omniverse there are collections of Megaverses.

Bad example. One apple is among two apples. Within it means inside it. Now I don't know about you, but I haven't seen an apple inside another apple.

@kingkronos: How could you not understand what I mean? a group has member in it, doesn't mean there inside eachother. Same thing like the universes in a multiverse there not inside eachother as well.

There is no need for me to explain, cause your just playing dumb anyway, Mr. literal.

@Killer_of_trolls said:

@kingkronos: How could you not understand what I mean? a group has member in it, doesn't mean there inside eachother. Same thing like the universes in a multiverse there not inside eachother as well.

There is no need for me to explain, cause your just playing dumb anyway, Mr. literal.

LOL, what? I seriously, don't understand what you're saying.

Yes, a group has member within it. And yes, each member is inside the group.

And seriously, you're not really understanding what I'm saying, are you?

I'm not saying that the universes are inside each other, they are inside the multiverse, which is the totality of all the universes. So yeah, the universes are inside the multiverse.

Same thing with the megaverses, they are inside the bigger Omniverse, which is the collection of all the megaverses. No one said that megaverses are inside each other, I'm saying all the megaverses are inside the Omniverse.

@kingkronos:

*sigh* I already know/said all that. My main point from the beginning was that Marvel's terminology does not contradict the one you just said.

You said the apple example was bad, I refuted your reply.

If you just reread my posts carefully you'de understand I am 100% correct.

anyway you reminded me of this.

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

@Guardian_of_Gravity said:

Well, it's a noble attempt, but given that Azathoth is effectively the one above all of the lovecraftmultiverse, hijacking his dream may be a bit difficult.

A bunch of creatures with flutes are enough to keep him asleep, and he is often described as an idiot, so it is possibly within Dream's reach

I wouldn't say Toaa. Since he's not truly omnipotent, seeing as he sleeps and dreams, and IIRC YS is above him.

There is quite a substantial debate as to whether Azathoth or Yog-sothoth is the top dog in Lovecraft's works.

Personally I believe it to be Azathoth, though that's a discussion for another time.

Yog-Sothoth wins.

He's pretty much on par with Lucifer Morningstar (or at least a level above him).

Yog Sothoth is more powerful. He wins.

Yog-Sothoth is multiversal+. He wins

Yog-Sothoth is high hyperversal+. He wins