Yoda/Skywalker/Windu vs. Sidious/Caedus/Plagueis

Team 1:

• Grand Master Yoda
• Grand Master Luke Skywalker
• Master of the Order Mace Windu

Team 2:

• Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Sidious
• Darth Caedus
• Dark Lord of the Sith Darth Plagueis.

Battle in Geonosis arena.

Windu is a severe weak link (force wise, even if not saber wise), so Team 2

@shootingnova

@jedixman

@i_like_swords_is_lame

@i_like_swords

@beingfatissupercool

Team 1

Leaning toward team 2.

@imboredletsdebate: While Plagueis is a big saber liability.

How powerfull is Yoda compared to Caedus?

Jedi. Either they win cause of the Grand masters or Mace solos with his Sidious busting amp

@darthvxder Plagueis is relatively equal to Mace in lightsaber skill, but he is a decent amount faster and much more powerful (force wise). Team 2 will win because of this. Caedus is more or less Yoda's equal, and Yoda will not be able to hold off 2v1 for very long, if at all. However, I could be underestimating Luke.

Eh even all at their primes prolly jedi Luke is gonna have to carry real hard though.

@imboredletsdebate: how is windu a weak link? He already beat darth sidious and in less you can show proof that sidious specifically said that he lost on purpose then windu beat sidious fair and square and with sidious out the way luke and yoda would take care of caedus and plagueis.

@imboredletsdebate: Im confusing him with someone else, sorry. Team 2 wins just because Palpatine is good enough to go head to head with Luke while the others clean up Mace and Yoda. Even though I feel im underrating Mace. Only people to be able to beat him in sparring matches were Yoda and Dooku who are both extremely skilled lightsbaer users and Mace does have Vaapad. If the gap in the force between Mace and Plagueis is too big I'll rest my case.

@darkbeam: He beat Sidious by exploiting the fear of Anakin. He won't be able to do that here. Not only that, but this isn't RotS Sidious. This Sidious is much more powerful than that Sidious, so that fight does not matter.

@darkbeam: If you honestly think Mace can beat Sidious then you should go read some more. IMO Mace is the weakest here but not a major weak link like theyre making him out to be.

@caseiden: I'd advise you to use someone like Dooku(who is Mace's equal) instead of Mace. Mace attracts the same stupid arguments.

Before you have a tangent about Mace>Dooku, read the blog below.

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/shootingnova/blog/count-dooku-vs-mace-windu/97072/

Now, as for this thread.

Oh for heaven's sake:

Before Mace realizes what has happened, Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto have fallen to Sidious's blade.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary

He can blitz Mace whenever he wants.

Lightning blasted the clouds above, and lightning blasted from Palpatine's hands, and Mace didn't have time to comprehend what Palpatine was talking about; he had time only to slip back into Vaapad and angle his blade to catch the forking arcs of pure, dazzling hatred that clawed toward him. Because Vaapad is more than a fighting style. It is a state of mind: a channel for darkness. Power passed into him and out again without touching him. And the circuit completed itself: the lightning reflected back to its source.

Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.

"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad; he had no strength left to fight against his own blade.

Mace's blade bent so close to his face that he was choking on ozone. "Anakin, he's too strong for me—"

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

Sidious can easily beat Mace with force lightning.

"Okay, well, this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine, and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace, and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. And it always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later, 'cause this is, it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here, and you can see now, that it's very clear that he's, he, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers."

--Taken from the Revenge of the Sith commentary

There. Straight from Lucas himself. Good enough for you?

Luke > Sidious and Yoda > Caedus, but both are difficult battles and would take quite some time. Mace, however, is almost outclassed by Plagueis. He would offer a good fight, but would lose 10/10.

Team 2. Plagueis would definitely beat Windu the fastest. Overall, Windu is the weak link here, so Team 2 wins every time.

@spartankobe: sorry but no if he could have blitzed him he would have I don't think palpatine would risk getting killed if anakin didn't turn. And yes mace did say he was to strong for him but he still overcame and defeated sidious in the end and also vaapad is perfect for this kind of fight vs 3 sith.

Also what version of sidious is this? Everything kinda depends on that.

The version of Sidious would be DE based on the battle forum rules, where we take each character at their unamped peaks. It wouldn't matter too much. Luke is still at least as fast, more powerful, more skilful, and has defenses/counters to his Wormholes in the form of Fold Space and Force Light, and he can similarly vanquish Sidious's essence with Force Light, and Sidious's essence is certainly not possessing him.

Team 2

While I woupdate back Luke against Sidous most times, Mace is just in over his head in this fight, without the onetime amp he had against Sidious, he would lose anyone here, just because he lacks the force power.

I wouldn't take my word for it, as I would also back Vader against Mace, just as a personal preference of character, and I also believe Vader to be just as if not more skilled and powerful. The reason that team 2 wins is that, once Mace goes down, Plagueis and Caedus could take Yoda as to their stalemate, though by then Sidious may be dead or wounded, they could take him together. Basically Mace weakens team 1 because he cannot take anyone here individually, though his team members may take slight majorities.

Team 2 6-7/10

Windu gets blitzed or stomped in the force as soon as the fights starts. Team 2 every time.

Luke still beat DE Sidious in a lightsaber duel. FOTJ Luke is by far the best here and carries team 1 for a majority.

Team 2

No he lost the first battle and the second battle he won because Lei was amping him with Force harmony.

How is team 1 going to win if Windu loses a vast majority against anyone he faces?

@okayalright_44: Because Luke is God.

@mije_101: Luke is Love. Luke is Life.

LOL

@okayalright_44: lmfao (Y)

He lost.

Gallery

He only won when Leia was enhancing him through Force Harmony:

Now, in his prime, Luke would beat Palpatine in a good fight, but he never defeated DE Palpatine. He went on to improve afterwards.

Team 2

Caedus > Yoda

Windu < Plagueis

Luke > Palpatine > Caedus > Plagueis but he couldn't take all three at once

I don't think I agree with that considering Caedus has actually been able to become one with the force and basically do anything he wanted to. It took his sister, trained by Bobba Fett, and Caedus already wounded, to eventually beat him.

agree

So what if Caedus became One with the Force? Suggesting he would do so here is reaching. He did so as a Jedi, not a Sith, and Luke has also became one with the Force. Neither of them can simply achieve Oneness when they desire to do so. Caedus never managed to do it against anybody in LotF, so why would he do so here? Especially since a Sith shouldn't be achieving Oneness in the first place (Malgus's instance is pretty ridiculous).

So you are going to ignore the rest of it? That it took his sister being trained by Bobba Fett, as well as being a powerful Jedi in her own right, and after he was already wounded to take him down?

@randomsid: What does that have to do with anything? Yoda is more comparable to Luke than to Jaina, and Caedus could not beat Luke despite having his own edges. Yoda is just as fast as Caedus is, if not moreso, and he is also more powerful and more skilled by a small margin. He would beat Caedus.

The only reason Jaina was able to beat Caedus was because he was already wounded. And yeah, even Luke said that Caedus, before he turned to the dark side, could be a stronger and better Jedi than him.

@randomsid: Did you listen to me? I said Yoda is comparable to Luke moreso than Jaina.

Could, not did, and Caedus didn't manage to do that before he died. That was why he was only almost equal to Luke even when Luke was still recovering from the injury Lumiya inflicted on him, and Caedus had an environmental edge as well.

Of course, this refers to blade combat only, because as far as the Force is concerned, Caedus has always found himself on the short end of the stick against Luke. Luke casually pinned him to a wall with telekinesis at one point, and though it was by surprise, Caedus mused that he couldn't break out of it even if he wanted to, as I recall. In Revelation, Luke also scared Caedus off with Illusion.

And Caedus's consistency is hardly on his side. He had greater difficulties against Mara, Jaina, and the Mandalorians than he should have.

I'm curious as to why you think Caedus defeats the more powerful, more skilled, and as fast ,if not faster, Yoda for a majority?

And I'd wager that he nor you could support any of those facts being false, with objectivity.

@okayalright_44: Alright so let's see why do you think Yoda can beat Caedus I want to hear your side of the fight.

@shootingnova: Yeah, I have the comic.

I thought I already did but I'll elaborate.

Skill: Goes to Yoda. Yoda's mastered ever lightsaber form, has been noted/confirmed in several sources (Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force, Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter, Fightsaber) as being the greatest Jedi swordsman in the Jedi Order and it's entire history. Yoda casually bested Dooku twice (once while Dooku was amped in Yoda:Dark Rendevous), and stalemated Sidious in combat :who as also mastered ever lightsaber form (as per Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Episode Guide) and is confirmed as the greatest swordsman in the history of the Sith.

Caedus on the other hand is inconsistent. He had trouble with Mara Jade upon becoming a Sith in Legacy of the Force: Betrayal, trouble with Jaina Solo, and while he was matching speeds with Luke in Legacy of the Force Inferno (Legacy Luke is also very inconsistent), it was very partially because the fought in Caedus' torture chamber and he had an environmental advantage. None of that provides reason as to why he matches either Luke or Yoda in skill but supports him being behind.

Power: Yoda takes the edge in power. Yoda has casually force pushed armies, manipulated 100's of destroyer droids simultaneously, effortlessly lifted a X-Wing out of the Degobah swamp, and manipulated and destroyed 2 100 meter vessels (2003 Clone Wars cartoon) at the same time by slamming them into each other. Caedus's best TK feat is tipping a 40 meter ship. When it comes to raw power, Yoda is confirmed as the most powerful Jedi before GM Luke, and matched the most powerful Sith in Galatic History (even at ROTS's period and confirmed by several objective sources) Sidious, in raw power, and absorbed and redirected Sidious'(the most powerful Sith) lighting: as supported by the ROTS film, Beware the Sith, Mysteries of the Jedi, and Star Wars: Jedi Battles. Caedus' best showing of raw power was shatterpointing Mandolarian armor (isn't even applicable in combat), but was easily pinned with TK by a Legacy GM Luke. Yoda also knows Force light (not applicable in combat but still) and displayed Force barrier.

Speed: While negligible is still in favor of Yoda especially do to him having the edge in power. Caedus has outran blaster fire, ran imperceptible fast, blitzed Vong etc, and as aforementioned matched speeds, moving faster than Ben Skywalker could perceive while contending with Luke. But as I mentioned as well, it was due impartially due to his environmental advantage. Caedus is still inconsistent in that regard. However, Yoda's consistently fought fast enough to generate dozens of afterimages, encase his entire body in brighter light(from his saber) then Anakin, moved faster than thought, disappeared to sight of a battle droids, and contended at nearly even speeds with Sidious (who has moved faster than Mace, Tinn, Kolar, Fisto, Maul and Anakin could perceive/react).

Overall, Yoda is just more skilled, more powerful, and fast enough to afford a majority over Caedus. That's the best breakdown I think I could give without any bias. Yoda is just objectively better in the most pertinent areas of combat.

mace windu beat palpatine already. he would have killed him if vader hadn't cut off his hands.

@christianrapper:

Reading is fundamental......and this explains it all

@okayalright_44: what the heck are u talking about?

@christianrapper: read