I was just thinking about this team battle and i was wondering who do you think would win ? And all of these characters are from the time of Revenge of the sith just to clear that up.
Team 1 should win. Obi-Wan has already lost to Dooku multiple times and has defeated Grievous. The entire Council decided on sending Obi-Wan to fight Grievous because is Soresu form was particularly suitable to dealing with Grievous' offensive fighting style, one with too many lightsabers for most Jedi to fend off. This proved effective, and Obi-Wan defeated him. Now, the General did originally manage to evade Obi-Wan once the clones and droids started fighting each other, but in this setup, the duel should simply proceed until one or the other is dead. In that case, Obi-Wan is perfectly capable of beating Grievous in a good fight. However, as Dooku has defeated Obi-Wan in both a duel and with the Force, if Kenobi faced him, especially on his own, he would lose. Dooku has manhandled him in a duel, and in RotS, he telekinetically incapacitated Obi-Wan. So, Obi-Wan could end up losing or winning his match depending on whether he faces Grievous or Dooku.
Now for Yoda. Yoda could defeat either Dooku or Grievous. Dooku, Yoda has beaten twice already. Once on Geonosis, again on Vjun. On Vjun, Dooku was amping his powers with the Force energies spread across Vjun, and Yoda still managed to overwhelm him in the duel. As with Geonosis, Tyranus had a distraction in place that allowed him to escape once he realized he was losing. There is really nothing to say about this. Yoda would win if he faced Dooku again. He has already proven that he can use Absorption/Deflection against Dooku's Lightning and match his telekinetic power without even returning a counterattack in that regard. Based on what both the Attack of the Clones novel and Yoda: Dark Rendezvous describe, Yoda seems faster than Dooku as well. Not so much faster than Tyranus that he is incapable of challenging Yoda in a duel but faster still. Also, given that Yoda could fight Palpatine, who is too fast for characters of Dooku's speed range to even see the movements of his lightsaber, that also lends credence to the idea that Yoda is somewhat faster than Dooku but somewhat slower than Sidious. So Yoda essentially has every conceivable advantage over Dooku: Skill, power, speed, and even strategic knowledge, if we include the fact that Yoda is the Jedi's primary strategist for Jedi-led war campaigns in the Clone Wars.
Quotes indicating that Yoda is faster than Dooku.
"I'm a slow learner," Anakin replied coolly, and he came on then, so suddenly, so powerfully, his green blade whirling with such speed that he seemed almost encased in green light.
With a sudden burst of sheer power, Master Yoda flew forward, his blade working so mightily that its residual glow outshone even those of both of Anakin's lightsabers when he was at the peak of his dance.
--Taken from Attack of the Clones
Then their blades clashed together in a lace of fire, green and red: but the green burned hotter. Slowly, slowly, Dooku gave way: and in the dark, drunken Vjun air, Yoda was terrible to behold.
--Taken from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
As for Grievous, well, Grievous is below Dooku in skill, and Yoda handles him. It might be A>B>C logic, but given that Yoda is, by Nick Gillard and sourcebook's statements, the best duelist in the Jedi Order; the most powerful Jedi in the Order based on the RotS novel and The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia; and the fastest Jedi in the Order based on feats, Grievous should lose to Yoda. In fact, seeing as Yoda can cause avalanches and destroy ships as large as droid landing vessels, I think Yoda could probably just TK Grievous for a near instant win.
Ultimately, this battle comes down like this: Obi-Wan<Dooku Obi-Wan>Grievous Yoda>Dooku Yoda>Grievous
It makes no real difference who fights who because the match ups will have the same end result. Even if Obi-Wan lost to either Dooku, once Yoda had dealt with Grievous, he could defeat Tyranus, and this assumes that Obi-Wan fights Dooku. This is a good fight, but Yoda in particular really tips the balance in favor of Team 1.
Tyranus has easily knocked over the massive column that would have crushed Anakin and Obi-Wan;
Haha you mean in Episode II and III when he gently placed the column on top of Anakin and then Obi-Wan (instead of crushing them)? Because that was hilarious.
Tyranus has easily knocked over the massive column that would have crushed Anakin and Obi-Wan;
Haha you mean in Episode II and III when he gently placed the column on top of Anakin and then Obi-Wan (instead of crushing them)? Because that was hilarious.
It was just a means of escape. He was never supposed to kill Anakin in the first place, because Anakin was essential to Palpatine's plan. But you have a point, I guess.
@Silver2467: Yeah, but he does it again to Obi in the next movie. I see what you mean, I just remember cracking up when I saw him violently rip out a giant piece of the building just to softly place it on top of his foes.
@Silver2467: Yeah, but he does it again to Obi in the next movie. I see what you mean, I just remember cracking up when I saw him violently rip out a giant piece of the building just to softly place it on top of his foes.
Yeah, I have no idea how I overlooked that. I will edit my post.
Yes i agree Yoda is probably the best in the order. and he would tip the battle in his teams favor beacause he could beat grievous and dooku so thats that. I Think Mace would defeat Grievous because Mace is the best 2nd only to Yoda. Which was said in attack of the clones special features. And Obi-wan defeated grievous plus Mace is very powerful in the force with abilities like telekinesis shatterpoint and force crush which enabled him to defeat Grievous in like 5 seconds.
Which is great, but Mace dueled Grievous once before. And he was unable to actually beat him them. He won through a BFR. And Windu crushing Grievous was only showcased to explain how Grievous ended up with his breathing problems which surfaced in RotS. In every other encounter Mace had with Grievous, he never did that. As for Obi-Wan, you're drawing a nonexistent equivalency. Comparing how Obi-Wan would fight Grievous to how Mace would is flawed on a base level of their martial forms. Obi-Wan beat Grievous because his lightsaber form, Soresu, specifically afforded him the necessary protection for Grievous' fighting style. The same is not applicable to Mace. The fact that Obi-Wan could defeat Grievous is not proof that Mace could too. Could Mace defeat Grievous? Very possibly. But not easily, and honestly, based on what Mace himself said and based on how their duel occurred, a case could probably be made for either side.
Now it doesnt matter who Yoda faces because he can defeat either one hes proven that. On Mace vs Dooku i think Mace would win for a number of reasons at the battle of Boz pity mace defeated and overwhelmed dooku easily dooku had to call in his magnaguards distract windu long enough for dooku to escape so that says alot right there.
I explained this to you once before. Please stop relying on refuted misconceptions to formulate an argument.
@Silver2467 said:
This never really happened; this is just a misconception perpetuated by wikis. In Obsession on Boz Pity, Dooku's plans had already been realized, and several Jedi, including many Council members, were spreading out across the battle field. Dooku was intent on leaving, not fighting, and when Mace confronted him, Dooku just taunted him the entire time, then called two MagnaGuards to prevent Mace from engaging him further. The duel itself only lasted a few panels, and Tyranus never demonstrated any interest in it at all. After Mace was obstructed by the MagnaGuards, Dooku casually clipped his lightsaber to his belt and walked away.
Mace also has acomplished something that Yoda could not do and that was defeat sidious. That accomplishment has only been acomplished by 2 people i think and that is Luke Skywalker and Mace Windu.
Again, Mace was radically amped in that fight. I explained that entire scenario here. It is not a showing that translates to any fight Mace engages in. If Mace could really defeat Sidious, he would never have lost to Kar Vastor or lost to Dooku or only fought even with Saesee Tiin or only fought evenly with Sora Bulq or only fought evenly with General Grievous or lost to Yoda. So on and so on. And when Luke beat Palpatine, Palpatine's power was being weakened by Leia and Anakin's Force Harmony. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/yodamace-and-obi-wan-vs-sidious-vader-rotj-and-maul/642908/
Dooku's lightning is a threat but Mace was able to block sidious lightning and as you see in Episode 3 sidious lightning is much more powerful than dooku's. So i believe it would be like this.
Again, Mace was amped in that fight.
Yoda > Dooku
Mace > Dooku
Yoda > Grievous
Mace > Dooku
Thats my point of view however yours makes a lot of sense and i respect your view.
I can respect your opinion, but canonicity fails to support it. Mace and Dooku have always been portrayed as equal with one another. For that matter, Dooku actually has better dueling feats than Mace does.
However, most of this is off-topic, which I inadvertently caused because I initially thought this was Mace and Yoda. If you want to discuss Mace vs Dooku, bump the thread you made on it.
Plus in season 4 ep 4 of the clone wars shadow warrior after a short duel with anakin and with 4 magnaguards by his side he defeated anakin but he was out of breath after that short duel even with 4 magnaguards by his side. so that proves dooku tire's easily while Mace does not. Plus Mace is the only person ever to master Vaapad.
I have never watched that episode; so the full context is lost on me. But you seem to be intentionally underselling Dooku. He has never shown to easily tire on any other occasion.
And let's not pretend Vaapad is an end-all-be-all lightsaber form. Sora Bulq knew Vaapad too, and Dooku easily defeated him and Tholme simultaneously. Mace only fought as an equal with Sora.
@Silver2467: Im sorry for that i forgot. And maybe i am underselling Dooku after all he has more victories than Mace and the only Jedi who proved he is clearly superior to Dooku is Yoda. Alright i admit defeat Silver you win Dooku is clearly superior to Mace.
Although im nearly sure that in wookiepedia it says in wookiepedia that apart from Yoda Mace is the only jedi who could defeat Dooku. Anyway you win.
You misunderstand my intention. I never meant to say that Dooku is clearly superior to Mace or anything of the like. In fact, I said outright that the two are equals. And there is nothing really to "win" in online debates.
I would like to see a source for that. It could be the case, but the problem is that Wookieepedia by itself is not a valid source. You need to cross-reference what it says with the source material because only the source material is canon.
The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light.
--Taken from Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
May i ask you from your own peronal opinion no evidence or anything just in your own mind how to you think this battle would play out between Mace vs Dooku.
In my head i think that Dooku would try and strike early and beat Mace in which he probly would and he could also use the lightning to help him which is a useful weapon i think the 1 chance Mace might have is if the duel goes on for a while and Mace can suurvive long he could tire Dooku out and defeat the sith but thats only if he can survive for long enough in which he probably wont.
I doubt that. The fight itself would probably last a little while. For one thing, Dooku is a Makashi practitioner; whereas Mace practices Vaapad, which is an off-shoot of Juyo. Based on that, if anything, Mace would be the one to strike early and end the fight quickly because Vaapad, like Juyo, is a very straightforward, aggressive fighting form where the combatant just strikes relentlessly until they win. Makashi, by contrast, is a very precise form that applies leverage and stance to out-skill the enemy. If it came to who wants to end the fight quickly, it would be Mac, since that follows his form more closely.
Regardless, the fight would be intensive, and I see no reason to assume either would win quickly or would tire out or anything like that. It would just be matter of skill, speed, and power.
Team 1 most definitely. Obi-Wan<Dooku but >Grievous. Yoda >both. If Yoda faces Dooku and Obi-Wan Grievous, Yoda will defeat Dooku then Grievous dies within 5 seconds. If Obi faces Dooku and Yoda Grievous Yoda beats Grievous in seconds and then Dooku dies too.
Yoda might solos if he takes out Grevious with the Force first then engages Dooku. It's not something I see happening all that often but it's certainly possible.
@paragonnate: Are you saying Yoda can't outduel Grievous and Dooku at the same time?
He certainly can, it would just be even easier if he takes out one of them before they close for a duel. two opponents of that caliber would be taxing even for Yoda.
@paragonnate: Considering Yoda as a duelist is a match for Sidious who casually stomped three of the Council's best while fighting a Jedi who is arguably more skilled than Dooku, I don't think it'll be that taxing at all.
@paragonnate: Considering Yoda as a duelist is a match for Sidious who casually stomped three of the Council's best while fighting a Jedi who is arguably more skilled than Dooku, I don't think it'll be that taxing at all.
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