#1 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

captain commander Yamamoto

Master Roshi

in character, no BFR, no prep, win by death.

battle take place in the grand canyon

Round 1 : Yamamoto is not allowed to use Kido.
Round 2 : Yamamoto is allowed to use Kido.

#2 Posted by Kobra678 (215 posts) - - Show Bio

roshi

#3 Posted by NeonGameWave (9141 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Roshi

Round 2: Roshi

Roshi does not need to fight Yamamoto directly as he can use his long range attacks.

#4 Edited by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kobra678: @NeonGameWave:

i believe Roshi has upper raw power, but isn't Yamamoto more versatile with Kido? Kido is long range attacks you know.

#5 Posted by NeonGameWave (9141 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder: True but Roshi`s durability should help him against Yamamoto`s kidos and he can counter back with his long range attacks as well.

#6 Posted by Dredeuced (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

If they're in character, Yamamoto would probably refuse to use his bankai, considering a slight mistake can dry up the entire world and kill everyone. I wish we could more clearly define Bleach speed, because their flash steps seem like they SHOULD put them on par or even above dragonball level character speed feats. If he can't dodge Roshi's blast, though, Roshi should be able to KO with a Kamehameha once Yamamoto start's tossing dangerous fire at him.

#7 Posted by BlackWind (7243 posts) - - Show Bio

Before it is even mentioned , Roshi's moon buster is an inconsistency.

#8 Posted by Dredeuced (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackWind: Kind of, kind of not. They mention the fact that Roshi destroyed the moon later in the series -- a character named Man-Wolf couldn't change back to his human form because of the Moon being gone (Roshi fixed this by hypnotizing him into thinking Krillin's head was the moon). It's point out that the Moon was somehow brought back into being at some point when Goku was training with Kame, as he had his tail removed so he couldn't go ape anymore. In a series with magic wish granting balls and a 3 year gap inbetween, it's not hard to make the connection. Toriyama, I'm pretty sure, hinted at as much when he is asked about the moon.

So, Roshi can bust a moon.

#9 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

Roshi can't fly, while Yamamoto can and has lot versatile distance attacks. Yama would win if he abuse his advantages.

#10 Edited by xlab3000 (3369 posts) - - Show Bio

Roshi stomps

#11 Posted by Kobra678 (215 posts) - - Show Bio

@mypasswordis1234: well even though he can't fly he still can jump very high. also i dont think that yamamoto has the speed to land a fatal hit on roshi

#12 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

@BlackWind: Kind of, kind of not. They mention the fact that Roshi destroyed the moon later in the series -- a character named Man-Wolf couldn't change back to his human form because of the Moon being gone (Roshi fixed this by hypnotizing him into thinking Krillin's head was the moon). It's point out that the Moon was somehow brought back into being at some point when Goku was training with Kame, as he had his tail removed so he couldn't go ape anymore. In a series with magic wish granting balls and a 3 year gap inbetween, it's not hard to make the connection. Toriyama, I'm pretty sure, hinted at as much when he is asked about the moon.

So, Roshi can bust a moon.

exactly what i was going to say to @BlackWind.

Roshi's moonbusting isn't a PIS, deal with it.

#13 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (8078 posts) - - Show Bio

Yamamoto's beard is the nexus of all bearded realities, he wins.

Online
#14 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kobra678 said:

@mypasswordis1234: well even though he can't fly he still can jump very high. also i dont think that yamamoto has the speed to land a fatal hit on roshi

I know, but if he jump high, he cannot change direction on air, that would make Yama's job easier. I don't think a regular flamewave would kill Roshi, but there are a lot of thing he could throw at him.... Roshi's only chance if he could leave an afterimage on ground while he charge the kamehameha, then jump and shot it in the face. If he couldn't, then he can do this with a punch, but I doubt one or two punch could KO Yama.

#15 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mr_Ingenuity: mmm, so he beats Odin & Zeus too.

no it's just that he has very durable beard due to great reatsu, so he couldn't find enough sharp razors :P

#16 Posted by Nefarious (22947 posts) - - Show Bio

Yamamoto.

#17 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@mypasswordis1234 said:

@Kobra678 said:

@mypasswordis1234: well even though he can't fly he still can jump very high. also i dont think that yamamoto has the speed to land a fatal hit on roshi

I know, but if he jump high, he cannot change direction on air, that would make Yama's job easier. I don't think a regular flamewave would kill Roshi, but there are a lot of thing he could throw at him.... Roshi's only chance if he could leave an afterimage on ground while he charge the kamehameha, then jump and shot it in the face. If he couldn't, then he can do this with a punch, but I doubt one or two punch could KO Yama.

also Roshi can make other tehnics like hypnosis and Thunder Shock Surprise.

#18 Edited by soaringturkeys (437 posts) - - Show Bio

oh wow... i can't believe people really hold Roshi to that much esteem.

Wasn't it calculated that his ability to shoot the moon would make it that their moon was immensely closer to the planet, was significantly smaller and would not have the same density or durability as our Moon?

Captain stomps hard.

#19 Edited by BlackWind (7243 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced: Not what I meant.

Roshi destroys the moon. Okay, fine. But then Young King Piccolo's greatest feat is a city buster. Wut?

#20 Posted by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys said:

oh wow... i can't believe people really hold Roshi to that much esteem.

Wasn't it calculated that his ability to shoot the moon would make it that their moon was immensely closer to the planet, was significantly smaller and would not have the same density or durability as our Moon?

Captain stomps hard.

Yeah, it was from cheese. I don't want to be rude, but wtf? No it wasn't calculated.

#21 Posted by Dredeuced (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackWind: He didn't need to bust more than a city? His energy projection isn't as strong despite him being faster and more physically powerful? Dragonball and Z have always been inconsistent with feats relative to the power level of characters (Goku and his energy projection should easily be enough to destroy a planet, but he gets tired off blasts that only explode a small area vs Cell, despite Vegeta being a planet buster from the beginning of the series etc etc). Dragonball and Z kind of lack for feats, and when they do they are inconsistent.

Roshi blew up a moon, that's all we can go by.

#22 Posted by soaringturkeys (437 posts) - - Show Bio

@mypasswordis1234: It was. I'll just do some digging. I don't get your first bit, 'it was from cheese?'

Nonetheless the premise of the entire argument was as follows. You can't compare our world and Dragon Ball Z world. Though the name is the same, there are no similarities to each world whatsoever. So let's get that out of the way.

The time it took for the wave to destroy the moon and even the size of the moon at some points showed that the moon was significantly closer than our moon.

This judging from the first time he used MAX power kamehameha and it destroyed only a mountain

#23 Edited by BlackWind (7243 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact that King Piccolo gets tired after more than one Explosive Demon Wave further makes Roshi's moon buster look iffy.

King Piccolo>>>Roshi. If Roshi's moon buster was so impressive, King Piccolo should be able to use city busters all day without tire.

#24 Edited by soaringturkeys (437 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackWind said:

The fact that King Piccolo gets tired after more than one Explosive Demon Wave further makes Roshi's moon buster iffy. King Piccolo>>>Roshi. If Roshi's moon buster was so impressive, King Piccolo should be able to use city busters them all day without tire.

The only thing with that feat is that everyone throws around this word "moon" as if it means anything. It's soo arguable how close and how small that moon is compared to our moon. The second time Max Kamehameha was used, only a mountain was destroyed. This is the very same technique used and the mountain wasn't disintergated nor was the blast travelling at 1/4 the speed of light. This tells me either.

1. The moon feat was inconsistant

or

2. Their moon is significantly smaller and closer than ours.

#25 Posted by Dredeuced (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackWind: So? Piccolo has worse energy projection. Being more powerful (speed strength senses) doesn't always mean you have directly correlated energy projection. Also, yeah, Dragonball and Dragonball Z have huge consistency problems, but in a forum where you can't make a DBZ argument without people shouting feats into your ear, you can't discredit an actual feat by using power levels inversely.

#26 Posted by BlackWind (7243 posts) - - Show Bio

So "it happened, therefore its legit" is what you're saying?

Cool, guess Batman can kick Spectre now.

#27 Posted by soaringturkeys (437 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackWind said:

So "it happened, therefore its legit" is what you're saying?

Cool, guess Batman can kick Spectre now.

Don't forget powerscaling! With powerscaling and enough prep Batman can defeat The Presence.

#28 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

I love people that come complain when DBZ discussions use feats, but then they would probably go and complain when people try to powerscale or use ABC logic or something other.

seriously, make your minds up

#29 Posted by Dredeuced (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jorgevy: This is my exact problem. I have no special love for DBZ, but I can't begin to even make an argument where, on one side, if I use only feats, people say "but power levels!" and if I use power levesl they go "bu those aren't ACTUAL feats, you can't use ABC logic, power levels aren't consistent!" etc etc. Roshi blew up a mountain (blowing up a mountain is harder than blowing up a city), does this not count either? Maybe an old Master with a weak old body but years of ki training can shoot a stronger beam than a lesser trained slug person.

#30 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2685 posts) - - Show Bio

Yamamoto

#31 Edited by mypasswordis1234 (1106 posts) - - Show Bio

@soaringturkeys said:

@mypasswordis1234: It was. I'll just do some digging. I don't get your first bit, 'it was from cheese?'

Nonetheless the premise of the entire argument was as follows. You can't compare our world and Dragon Ball Z world. Though the name is the same, there are no similarities to each world whatsoever. So let's get that out of the way.

The time it took for the wave to destroy the moon and even the size of the moon at some points showed that the moon was significantly closer than our moon.

This judging from the first time he used MAX power kamehameha and it destroyed only a mountain

That was sarcasm about the moon density.

AT, the creator certified the moon-earth distance in an interview.

Visual illustration is just visual illustration. If you want to apply details, then: It can't be so much closer because there would have cunamis every day then(water-level changing because the gravity). But no. More details, when they feel pain their skulls, face, bones changing too, etc

He just wanted to turn off the fire, he was even surprised he destroyed the mountain, this was so obvious scene I think you just tried to lie.... believe what you want, I am done in this thread.

#32 Posted by 18hunt (2948 posts) - - Show Bio

Roahi jumps high then destroys the grand canyon with the Original KamehameHA!

#33 Posted by CerberusPrime3k (950 posts) - - Show Bio

Yamamoto both rounds.

Yes Roshi is a Moon Buster but only Bulked up with a full powered Kamehameha which requires time to preform....Honestly Yamamoto would probably dodge it.

Their speed should be equal but I'm wagering Yamaji's faster via Shunpo and he has the advantage of flight.

In round 1 I don't see Roshi getting around his Shikai given Yamaji's speed all he has to do is swing in that direction or multiple directions since he can control where it goes.

With Kido Yamaji has access to all types of Bakudos,Hados,and Kido Barriers.

There's no way to assume he doesn't know them since he has been around for 1000+ years and hes done a forbidden one himself Hado 96.

A hado 88 should be able to rival/counter a standard Kamehameha wave.

#34 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced: exactly

#35 Edited by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackWind said:

@Dredeuced: Not what I meant.

Roshi destroys the moon. Okay, fine. But then Young King Piccolo's greatest feat is a city buster. Wut?

so what? it's stupid if King Piccolo destroys earth, when he wanted to rule it. did you see any planet busting C 17 & C 18 did? no. but still, they are more powerfull than Freiza.

#36 Posted by Simon_the_digger (3446 posts) - - Show Bio

Yamamoto both rounds.

#37 Posted by theONEtaichou (1564 posts) - - Show Bio

Old Man Yammy wrecks him.... heck Goku as a child could wreck him... Head Taichou takes them both out with multible sokotsu's!

#38 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (20339 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

Yamamoto's beard is the nexus of all bearded realities, he wins.

Nah.. Roshi has a comparable one as well..

#39 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

guys guys, you're trying to force inconsistencies into BDZ !!! there is no inconsistency. didn't you here about concentrated energy blasts ?

Spirit bomb or any other enery blast don't blow planet earth or solar system in purpose, because they are concentrated energy blasts, and basically, just because explosion is smaller it doesn't mean it is less powerful, Self destruction is perfect example of concreted explosion :

We know Vegeta used his entire power to perform this attack, yet the explosion was much smaller then a moon explosion

So was the explosion focused or is this the limit for SSJ2 Majin Vegeta?

See statement from Trunks, Vegeta made his attack smaller.

But what I don't undersand is why people are using this "explosions inconsistency" argument only against DBZ. In almost every fictional universe explosions can be focused.

Take a look at this scan, Odin KOed SS with a blast, and explosion was not bigger than car explosion. Does that means SS can get KOed by a car explosion? Ofc not. that explosion obviously had enough energy to destroy planets, it was just focused.

here superman got destroyed by an attack that didn't even destroy a city.

here thanos (with shields) got hurt from an explosion smaller than a house, or was this focused planet+ explosion?

#40 Posted by nishi99 (385 posts) - - Show Bio

Roshi would own him he is faster and far more powerful.

#41 Posted by girugamesh (439 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_mighty_Beyonder said:

guys guys, you're trying to force inconsistencies into BDZ !!! there is no inconsistency. didn't you here about concentrated energy blasts ?

Spirit bomb or any other enery blast don't blow planet earth or solar system in purpose, because they are concentrated energy blasts, and basically, just because explosion is smaller it doesn't mean it is less powerful, Self destruction is perfect example of concreted explosion :

We know Vegeta used his entire power to perform this attack, yet the explosion was much smaller then a moon explosion

So was the explosion focused or is this the limit for SSJ2 Majin Vegeta?

See statement from Trunks, Vegeta made his attack smaller.

But what I don't undersand is why people are using this "explosions inconsistency" argument only against DBZ. In almost every fictional universe explosions can be focused.

Take a look at this scan, Odin KOed SS with a blast, and explosion was not bigger than car explosion. Does that means SS can get KOed by a car explosion? Ofc not. that explosion obviously had enough energy to destroy planets, it was just focused.

here superman got destroyed by an attack that didn't even destroy a city.

here thanos (with shields) got hurt from an explosion smaller than a house, or was this focused planet+ explosion?

Well well, looks like you can argue decently when you want to Beyonder :)

But this pretty much sums it up, the level of destruction caused by a blast is not always suggestive of its power. Pre-retcon MM fired a blast that was stated to have had the power to destroy billions of dimensions, yet when actually fired it didn't even fry the room he was in.

Roshi is a moon buster, everyone should deal with it. If some people (looking at you soaringturkey) have a problem with DBZ cosmology, guess what? There's nothing to suggest that the moon is closer or smaller in DBZ, just accept that Roshi's (or Piccolo's, as seen later on) blast was moving that quickly and was that powerful. Don't lowball where there's no need.

#42 Posted by the_mighty_Beyonder (701 posts) - - Show Bio

@girugamesh:

But this pretty much sums it up, the level of destruction caused by a blast is not always suggestive of its power. Pre-retcon MM fired a blast that was stated to have had the power to destroy billions of dimensions, yet when actually fired it didn't even fry the room he was in.

yes!! i used that example in an other thread.

Roshi is a moon buster, everyone should deal with it. If some people (looking at you soaringturkey) have a problem with DBZ cosmology, guess what? There's nothing to suggest that the moon is closer or smaller in DBZ, just accept that Roshi's (or Piccolo's, as seen later on) blast was moving that quickly and was that powerful. Don't lowball where there's no need.

exactly.