Ventress was the Sith assassin for Dooku. While not a official Sith, she is a powerful dark force user, originaly train as a Jedi Padawan, though before that Ventress was also a witch of Dathomire as per the Canon. She has two convulsed histories of her origin and how she came to be. The end result is the same though. She in both origins finds her way to Dooku, who then trains her to be the best force using assassin she can be. Under his guidance, she became a Sith (Unofficial lol) as powerful as Darth Maul, or Savage Opress by the end. She is a proven warrior who gave Obi Wan and Anakin Skywalker a hard time in every encounter. She has completed impossible suicide missions for Dooku against the efforts of Jedi everywhere. She is in short awesome at what she does.
Well now i have something of a idea of what to expect here, i think this fight will be interesting. We have a superior duelist vs a superior force user. However Ventress is not far outclass in Force.
So start off with her dueling ability and unique lightsabers.
Lightsaber
Ventress Lightsabers were very unique. They are curved in hilt, design for dueling.
They were curved hilts for greater control in a duel, and she used them in a pair. Whats more she can combine them into a staff as well which she showed great skill in as well.
Dueling Skill
Ventress was a master duelist, even before training from Dooku.
Before meeting Dooku, she showed great skill as a practitioner of Form VI's Jar Kai, and after training from Dooku added Form II to compete with Jedi.
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Form VI is all about balance, and the key form for dual blade wielding of Jar Kai. Its a jack of all trades, master of none form. Its also a form I fully feel Xesh has no experience with. Sith and Jedi alike who have no knowledge of certain forms have trouble with them, Darth Bane against Jar kai when it matters is a good example of this. Even Grievous giving Jedi hell with his four blade style is unique.
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Form II known as Makashi is all about the Lightsaber dueling exclusively, and the perfect form of well place attacks with your Lightsaber. This is a great shown skill Ventress shows time and again when battling some of the greatest Jedi in the Clone Wars.
She also shown great hand to hand when it matters, taking out tons of armored clones with hand to hand alone. In short she is a total beast in the dueling aspect. Something I am convince Xesh is not.
Force Powers
While Xesh may have more or better forms of this category, time will tell, I am confident either way the use of these powers are superior in Ventress corner. A quick list of her known Force abilities and knoweldge.
Very extensive use of Telekinesis, including Force Crush, and Force Choke.
The typical Farsight.
The typical Force Sense.
Shown to know Beast Language.
Very advance Force Concealment.
Shown to know how to use Reanimate Dead.
Stong use of Force Speed, Force Leap, and overall Force aumentation of her stats.
Not a super lot, however her dueling skills are her main bread and butter, with these force abilities here only to help her in that aspect. With this in mind, i am confident she can take this win.
Ventress was the Sith assassin for Dooku. While not a official Sith, she is a powerful dark force user, originaly train as a Jedi Padawan, though before that Ventress was also a witch of Dathomire as per the Canon. She has two convulsed histories of her origin and how she came to be. The end result is the same though. She in both origins finds her way to Dooku, who then trains her to be the best force using assassin she can be. Under his guidance, she became a Sith (Unofficial lol) as powerful as Darth Maul, or Savage Opress by the end. She is a proven warrior who gave Obi Wan and Anakin Skywalker a hard time in every encounter. She has completed impossible suicide missions for Dooku against the efforts of Jedi everywhere. She is in short awesome at what she does.
Her life story isn't relevant here. But I will admit, she is awesome in everything she does.
Ventress Lightsabers were very unique. They are curved in hilt, design for dueling.
They were curved hilts for greater control in a duel, and she used them in a pair. Whats more she can combine them into a staff as well which she showed great skill in as well.
So she uses an unorthodox weapon. Good for her. Xesh can still counter it. He has fought Jar'Kai fighters before.
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It should also be noted that Xesh was fighting Shea Kado, whom he had a deep empathy for and whom he didn't want to hurt. So he was holding back.
He could not let her die. ... He did not understand the feeling that compelled him to save her life.
Her saberstaff could be of trouble, but she rarely forms it anyways, only when she's truly hard pressed like with Mace Windu or Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Ventress was a master duelist, even before training from Dooku.
Before meeting Dooku, she showed great skill as a practitioner of Form VI's Jar Kai, and after training from Dooku added Form II to compete with Jedi.
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Form VI is all about balance, and the key form for dual blade wielding of Jar Kai. Its a jack of all trades, master of none form. Its also a form I fully feel Xesh has no experience with. Sith and Jedi alike who have no knowledge of certain forms have trouble with them, Darth Bane against Jar kai when it matters is a good example of this. Even Grievous giving Jedi hell with his four blade style is unique.
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Form II known as Makashi is all about the Lightsaber dueling exclusively, and the perfect form of well place attacks with your Lightsaber. This is a great shown skill Ventress shows time and again when battling some of the greatest Jedi in the Clone Wars.
Once again, styles don't matter much. They can give an edge, but it's marginal at best. A style edge wouldn't come into play if the foe you were facing is more skilled than you. And Xesh's styles appear to be Shien and Ataru.
He demonstrates the reverse Shien grip:
Xesh also demonstrated use of unarmed combat and acrobatics, which suggests Ataru:
But that's not too relevant. Let's talk feats.
One of Xesh's skill feats is stalemating three skilled Je'Daii; Sek'Nos Rath, Shae Kado and Tasha Ryo; after he just survived an explosion and ship crash:
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Xesh has also bested Skal'Nas.
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Skal'Nas was a predor, one of the Rakata's best, and was stated as skilled in combat.
Skal'Nas is a predor-- a Rakata overlord-- skilled in combat and treachery. He began low and fought his way to the title predor.
Source: Dawn of the Jedi: Issue 0
And another thing to note is that Xesh was tired from a previous fight with Shae Kado.
While this is certainly not superior to Ventress's feats, it's comparable.
She also shown great hand to hand when it matters, taking out tons of armored clones with hand to hand alone. In short she is a total beast in the dueling aspect. Something I am convince Xesh is not.
Normal troopers and fodder are nothing compared to Force Sensitives. And Xesh bested Trill, a Force Hound noted for her skill, while he was unarmed. He used unarmed combat, and she used her Forcesaber through out the fight, and Xesh won handily.
While Xesh may have more or better forms of this category, time will tell, I am confident either way the use of these powers are superior in Ventress corner. A quick list of her known Force abilities and knoweldge.
Very extensive use of Telekinesis, including Force Crush, and Force Choke.
The typical Farsight.
The typical Force Sense.
Shown to know Beast Language.
Very advance Force Concealment.
Shown to know how to use Reanimate Dead.
Stong use of Force Speed, Force Leap, and overall Force aumentation of her stats.
Since the two aren't surrounded by dead people, the reanimate the dead ability is going to be useless. Since Asajj favors head on battles, her concealment is also useless(and Xesh has a strong enough Force Sense to pierce her concealment either way). And her TK and TP aren't anywhere near Xesh.
Telekinesis
Xesh, while injured and exhausted, has caused earthquakes:
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He dispatched Trill with TK:
Trill was a Force Hound powerful enough to casually throw a gigantic beast:
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Xesh also could use Force Crush, of Force Wound, to kill a giant diogna:
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Xesh is clearly the telekinetic superior. And he has other abilities he can use in combat as well.
Lightning/Storm
As for Lightning, Xesh managed to incapacitate Sek'Nos Rath:
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Xesh, while injured and exhausted, one-shotted Tasha Ryo:
He killed a giant beast with Lightning while exhausted and injured:
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This is noteworthy as the combined power of Shae Kado, Sek'Nos Rath and Tasha Ryo could only barely hold off the very same beast:
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I can go on, but I'll just leave one more quote:
The Force Storm Xesh created threatens all life on the planet Tython:
Telepathy
This is worth mentioning. Asajj was proven to have a weak defense against telepathy:
Now here's Xesh using telepathy to torture Daegen Lok:
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And here's Xesh blinding Tasha Ryo and every other Je'Daii seer with a Force Shadow:
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To see why this is so impressive, check the following Respect Threads:
From those Respect threads, you'll see the full telepathic potency of both Tasha and Lok. If he can subdue and torture them via TP, he could certainly do the same to Ventress as she has weaker telepathy than both of them considerably.
Not a super lot, however her dueling skills are her main bread and butter, with these force abilities here only to help her in that aspect. With this in mind, i am confident she can take this win.
Indeed, Asajj is the better duelist. But she certainly isn't stomping in a duel. Xesh can hold his own for a very long time. Her Force abilities are solidly below Xesh, however. He could subdue her with any of the abilities I listed above. Since Asajj could counter his Lightning with her Lightsaber, he might use TP or TK to bring her down, but as soon as he sees that Asajj is the superior duelist- he'll abuse his massive Force edge and win.
Her life story isn't relevant here. But I will admit, she is awesome in everything she does.
Relevant to the casual fan or non Star Wars reader.
So she uses an unorthodox weapon. Good for her. Xesh can still counter it. He has fought Jar'Kai fighters before.
It should also be noted that Xesh was fighting Shea Kado, whom he had a deep empathy for and whom he didn't want to hurt. So he was holding back.
You showed nothing of Jar Kai my friend. Jar Kai was not invented till well after Xesh time. All you showed is someone using a unidentified duel sword martial art. Remember Lightsaber forms borrow and perfect all the known sword art forms of the past into a perfect lightsaber form. Jar Kai is such a form and not discovered or taught at Xesh time. Not the same at all.
Her saberstaff could be of trouble, but she rarely forms it anyways, only when she's truly hard pressed like with Mace Windu or Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Which still makes for a valuable option should she feel the need to switch it up.
Dueling skill
Once again, styles don't matter much. They can give an edge, but it's marginal at best. A style edge wouldn't come into play if the foe you were facing is more skilled than you. And Xesh's styles appear to be Shien and Ataru.
Styles grant a huge edge when they are developed to maximize the use of the Lightsaber in some way. Its does not seem accurate to say Marginal at best at all.
As for Xesh, he may appear to be using Ataru, or Shien, but its not. These arts were not made till thousands years later.
He demonstrates the reverse Shien grip:
Shien was not inveneted till many thousand years later.
Xesh also demonstrated use of unarmed combat and acrobatics, which suggests Ataru:
There is a difference between ataru, and using simple acrobatics in a fight. Anakin done as much but is not Ataru user at all. Alot of Jedi/Sith use flips and such, but are not using or users of Ataru.
But that's not too relevant. Let's talk feats.
One of Xesh's skill feats is stalemating three skilled Je'Daii; Sek'Nos Rath, Shae Kado and Tasha Ryo; after he just survived an explosion and ship crash:
Xesh has also bested Skal'Nas.
Skal'Nas was a predor, one of the Rakata's best, and was stated as skilled in combat.
Skal'Nas is a predor-- a Rakata overlord-- skilled in combat and treachery. He began low and fought his way to the title predor.
Source: Dawn of the Jedi: Issue 0
And another thing to note is that Xesh was tired from a previous fight with Shae Kado.
While this is certainly not superior to Ventress's feats, it's comparable.
Im not sure it can be said even comparable. Im not going to say its unimpressive at all, I am sure it is for its time, but Jedi training, and martial knowledge, and inventing of actual forms to maximize lightsaber combat is superior to beings using Lightsabers for the first time.
Normal troopers and fodder are nothing compared to Force Sensitives. And Xesh bested Trill, a Force Hound noted for her skill, while he was unarmed. He used unarmed combat, and she used her Forcesaber through out the fight, and Xesh won handily.
Xesh should be the better unarmed combatant
Clones are far from "Fodder Troops" since they are clones of Jango, and highly train from birth. Hell a small force of them help anakin take out a Jedi Temple, as well a small force brought low the Jedi Master in Krell.
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Fodder indeed, but regardless I see no reason for Ventress to be inferior in raw hand to hand when her attacks and kicks help her deal with Savage Opress for a for a short time with no Lightsaber.
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Im not seeing her inferior in any way in martial skill at all.
Force powers
Since the two aren't surrounded by dead people, the reanimate the dead ability is going to be useless. Since Asajj favors head on battles, her concealment is also useless(and Xesh has a strong enough Force Sense to pierce her concealment either way). And her TK and TP aren't anywhere near Xesh.
We shall see.
Telekinesis
Xesh, while injured and exhausted, has caused earthquakes:
He dispatched Trill with TK:
Trill was a Force Hound powerful enough to casually throw a gigantic beast:
Xesh also could use Force Crush, of Force Wound, to kill a giant diogna:
Xesh is clearly the telekinetic superior. And he has other abilities he can use in combat as well.
I would not say he is superior at all. He has maybe more raw power, but superior I think not. Let me explain. Ventress may not have the raw power to match, but she has use TK in much more useful ways in battle.
Uses TK to surround Obi Wan with shrapnel of glass. Common tactic she uses with the environment to maximize TK ability with shrapnel attacks as distraction, or simply to wrack up accumulating wounds. It does not need to be powerful, just useful to get hits in.
Uses the Saber to to back stab a Jedi Master. Again another excellent show of use skill over power. Here she uses subtly the force to kill a Jedi from behind with him not even suspecting it.
Uses TK to force Dooku's Lightsaber away from her, grab her own Lightsabers, and open a hatch to escape. This is special as it shows her using TK to avoid a lethal blow from a foe leagues above in skill and power to Xesh, while escaping at the same time, totally disarm. Such good use of TK and smart thinking to use it that most do not show.
Forces a avalanche. Why this is here, its not a strength of TK feat that compares? no, it shows again her using the environment to take down two Jedi masters with a single move!
Just some showings I like to use, and there is more, but I think you get the picture. She uses her TK better, and even if you want to argue that TK raw power is everything, its not like Ventress is far out of his league.
Rips a large chunk of solid stone of a large column that would weigh as much as a bull dozer, and hurls it.
With focuses, she can rip through several solid stones larger than herself to fall on foes. Forcing them to break under her power.
Blasts Obi Wan through a solid reinforce wall. Ventress is not being simply overpowered here at all.
Lightning/Storm
As for Lightning, Xesh managed to incapacitate Sek'Nos Rath:
Xesh, while injured and exhausted, one-shotted Tasha Ryo:
He killed a giant beast with Lightning while exhausted and injured:
All that is impressive.
This is noteworthy as the combined power of Shae Kado, Sek'Nos Rath and Tasha Ryo could only barely hold off the very same beast:
Just curious, what Force Lightning feats they have to say they are impressive at all with the electricity attack?
I can go on, but I'll just leave one more quote:
The Force Storm Xesh created threatens all life on the planet Tython:
Im not positive, but I thought there was huge context to him being able to do that feat. I have to re look into that one. Ah here it is. All credit to @i_like_swords.
During the first arc of the Dawn of the Jedi series, Xesh arrived on Tython. As his ship crash landed, several Dark Side Force Users were killed in the process, Xesh in fact killing his own master. As a result of their deaths, the Dark Force Energy was released and absorbed by Xesh, making him a Dark Side Nexus.
This is the context to that feat.
In the end its very cool having the electricity powers, but its a minor in effective ability.
Ventress while beaten down and weak from fighting Savage and Dooku is capable of deflecting Force lightning from Dooku of all people, I see no reason for her not able to counter Xesh Lightning till she gets in close combat.
Telepathy
This is worth mentioning. Asajj was proven to have a weak defense against telepathy:
Actually this is not worth mentioning, and i will get to as to why.
Now here's Xesh using telepathy to torture Daegen Lok:
And here's Xesh blinding Tasha Ryo and every other Je'Daii seer with a Force Shadow:
To see why this is so impressive, check the following Respect Threads:
From those Respect threads, you'll see the full telepathic potency of both Tasha and Lok. If he can subdue and torture them via TP, he could certainly do the same to Ventress as she has weaker telepathy than both of them considerably.
They all showed decent telepathy, but is a game changer? Not really. Master Fay is proof of this.
"She was the strongest of us all, and for a brief moment, I could feel how strong. I suspect she would have lived forever, if not for this one sacrifice." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
Master Fay was stated and harped by obi wan to be one of the most powerful Jedi of the time. So powerful she solved problems with no Lightsaber, lived well past her age in youth, and after being stabbed in the heart had the power to keep on living, and give obi Wan her strength to live. She was describe as a legend by the order in a time of legendary Jedi everywhere.
Here we clearly see her using her ability to mentally KO Ventress, and even while she is doing it, Ventress is crushing her heart, knowing full well what is Fay is doing. Fay strength and durability to live on without a heart is something Xesh cannot boast should he try the same thing.
Even for all her effort Fay could not KO Ventress for more than a few seconds.
So Telepathy Attack is not a solid argument of a win. I fore see Ventress crushing his heart before he could. In fact here is a power Ventress shows superior TK in, Force Crushing and Choke.
Uses Force Choke on a Arc Trooper, then drives him into her Lightsaber.
Force Chokes 4 beings at one time, crushing their throats.
Force crushes a large blaster, and then rag dolls a small platoon of Clone troopers within moments with TK slamming, and crushing.
While fatally wounded, Ventress uses force rage to Force Choke Obi Wan and Anakin.
Something even Xesh so far have not shown a aptitude for with his TK, but something Ventress uses with great skill, and often. She can also Force crush objects and organs.
Uses TK to crush a camera, and then again uses Saber throw with TK to take out another target.
I also showed her targeting hearts with TK on powerful force users. In short its another useful ability and skill in TK I do not see Xesh dealing with well, nor do I see his telepathy working well here.
Force Concealment
Also there is this too I like to address.
Since Asajj favors head on battles, her concealment is also useless(and Xesh has a strong enough Force Sense to pierce her concealment either way).
I disagree with you casually throwing it out as a option for her.
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She totally used her Concealment Force abilities to hide in mid battle from Ahsoak and Luminara. Luminara who can sense invisible Droids fine, and a Jedi Master. Ahsoka who has super sense as per her alien biology, and shown to have super high Force Sensing abilities. Ventress hides in a intense battle from both when the chance arose to sneak attack later.
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Here she engages Skywalker who also has great Precognition in battle, and insane good Force Senses by feats. Yet she manages in a small battle area preform a stelth attack on him in mid battle.
In short, her concealment is a major factor if she feels the need to use it. Dantooine has plenty of rocks, tress, caves, and large farms on it.
There is plenty for her to work with here on this panet.
Conclusion
Indeed, Asajj is the better duelist. But she certainly isn't stomping in a duel. Xesh can hold his own for a very long time. Her Force abilities are solidly below Xesh, however. He could subdue her with any of the abilities I listed above. Since Asajj could counter his Lightning with her Lightsaber, he might use TP or TK to bring her down, but as soon as he sees that Asajj is the superior duelist- he'll abuse his massive Force edge and win.
I feel Xesh would be a worthy foe, but Ventress will have the advantage in close combat as soon the match starts. I feel she can survive or hold out on his force power by her own feats, and even preform feats with the force he never encountered. The biggest help is her fighting style. She is by feats much smarter using the environment with her Concealment, or TK abilities to get any edge she can in a fight. Those same abilities will help off set his own raw TK use, and help her get into close combat where she would handily win IMO.
You showed nothing of Jar Kai my friend. Jar Kai was not invented till well after Xesh time. All you showed is someone using a unidentified duel sword martial art. Remember Lightsaber forms borrow and perfect all the known sword art forms of the past into a perfect lightsaber form. Jar Kai is such a form and not discovered or taught at Xesh time. Not the same at all.
Actually, that is an early usage of Jar'Kai. Jar'Kai and Niman were made and adopted into traditional forms by the Yovshin swordsmasters and Royal Machetero. Since the latter were wiped out around 25000 BBY, it's logical that the styles they used of fighting, Jar'Kai and dual fencing, were well before that. The incident with Xesh took part in 25,793. In other words, it's extremely possible that this was in fact an early stage of Jar'Kai.
Which still makes for a valuable option should she feel the need to switch it up.
Problem is the only time she "switched it up" was when she was under assault by Mace Windu, and when pressured by Kenobi. She clearly keeps that tactic in reserve should a truly challenging foe show himself(and even then she doesn't use it most of the time- her duel with Anakin on Yavin 4, for example).
Styles grant a huge edge when they are developed to maximize the use of the Lightsaber in some way. Its does not seem accurate to say Marginal at best at all.
Let me show you why exactly the style edge is marginal at best. Shii-Cho is weak against single combat, Ataru is good for single combat. So does that mean Aayla Secura is a better duelist than Kit Fisto? Of course not. Form V is a good style to use against Form II Makashi. But does that mean that Ahsoka, a user of Form V, will have an edge over Shaak Ti or Asajj Ventress, users of Makashi? Of course not. The style advantage could only help if the two are evenly matched as duelists, and the one with the better style has a slight edge. But since Xesh and Asajj aren't evenly matched as duelists And Xesh uses strength based attacks frequently, which works well against Makashi and Jar'Kai users.
As for Xesh, he may appear to be using Ataru, or Shien, but its not. These arts were not made till thousands years later.
You have no basis for that argument. As I've told you before, the art of Jar'Kai was made well before 25.000 BBY. Jar'Kai and Niman were some of the latest styles of fighting to be made. Meaning it's more than possible that forms like Shii-Cho, Makashi or Soresu, or Shien were at least in development and these were it's early stages.
Im not sure it can be said even comparable. Im not going to say its unimpressive at all, I am sure it is for its time, but Jedi training, and martial knowledge, and inventing of actual forms to maximize lightsaber combat is superior to beings using Lightsabers for the first time.
So because both Xesh and Skal'Nas were using styles in early development it makes the feats non-impressive? I don't think so. It's not as impressive as some of Asajj's feats, but given Skal'Nas's accolades, and the circumstances of the duel, and how quickly Xesh won, it's certainly a feat comparable.
Normal troopers and fodder are nothing compared to Force Sensitives. And Xesh bested Trill, a Force Hound noted for her skill, while he was unarmed. He used unarmed combat, and she used her Forcesaber through out the fight, and Xesh won handily.
Xesh should be the better unarmed combatant
Clones are far from "Fodder Troops" since they are clones of Jango, and highly train from birth. Hell a small force of them help anakin take out a Jedi Temple, as well a small force brought low the Jedi Master in Krell.
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Fodder indeed, but regardless I see no reason for Ventress to be inferior in raw hand to hand when her attacks and kicks help her deal with Savage Opress for a for a short time with no Lightsaber.
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Im not seeing her inferior in any way in martial skill at all.
Most Trooper can get cut down or punched and kicked aside by well trained Force users easily. Xesh could perform similarly. And she managed to dodge Savage's attacks and lands a few kicks and punches on him. And she only uses unarmed combat when disarmed. Xesh demonstrated unarmed combat in combination with Forcesaber sequences.
Force powers
Telekinesis
I would not say he is superior at all. He has maybe more raw power, but superior I think not. Let me explain. Ventress may not have the raw power to match, but she has use TK in much more useful ways in battle.
Uses TK to surround Obi Wan with shrapnel of glass. Common tactic she uses with the environment to maximize TK ability with shrapnel attacks as distraction, or simply to wrack up accumulating wounds. It does not need to be powerful, just useful to get hits in.
Uses the Saber to to back stab a Jedi Master. Again another excellent show of use skill over power. Here she uses subtly the force to kill a Jedi from behind with him not even suspecting it.
Uses TK to force Dooku's Lightsaber away from her, grab her own Lightsabers, and open a hatch to escape. This is special as it shows her using TK to avoid a lethal blow from a foe leagues above in skill and power to Xesh, while escaping at the same time, totally disarm. Such good use of TK and smart thinking to use it that most do not show.
Forces a avalanche. Why this is here, its not a strength of TK feat that compares? no, it shows again her using the environment to take down two Jedi masters with a single move!
Just some showings I like to use, and there is more, but I think you get the picture. She uses her TK better, and even if you want to argue that TK raw power is everything, its not like Ventress is far out of his league.
Rips a large chunk of solid stone of a large column that would weigh as much as a bull dozer, and hurls it.
With focuses, she can rip through several solid stones larger than herself to fall on foes. Forcing them to break under her power.
Blasts Obi Wan through a solid reinforce wall. Ventress is not being simply overpowered here at all.
I'm not convinced. Her TK, while certainly impressive, is solidly below Xesh in raw magnitude.
He has easily overpowered and one-shotted Shae Koda, Tasha Ryo and Trill via TK, respectively.
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I already listed his feat of causing earthquakes and his feat of easily killing a beast with Force Wound. Which are honestly better TK feats than what we've seen from Ventress. He isn't ragdolling her, but he'll be successful in overpowering her.
And if you wanna talk use in combat, here's some examples of Xesh:
He takes advantage of the environment, using TK to hurl spikes as projectiles:
He surrounds Rath with multiple objects at once:
And his earthquake feat is also a good demonstration of using TK with cunning. By using it, he distracted Rath, Shae and Tasha and escaped from them. It's both a use of magnitude and strategy through telekinesis.
Just curious, what Force Lightning feats they have to say they are impressive at all with the electricity attack?
Well, for one thing, here's Rath performing something similar to Dark Transfer or Lightning to subdue Trill:
He also used a ball of Lightning which, when redirected by Xesh, managed to knock back a Rancor-Dragon:
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And Shae Koda managed to overwhelm the tutaminis of another Force Hound:
It's not worth much, but their power combined with Tasha couldn't drive back the beast, and then an exhausted Xesh used Lightning and killed it. Given the context of the feat, it's quite impressive. Among other feats, Xesh was capable of easily killing a group of Force Sensitive Flesh Raiders with Lightning:
Im not positive, but I thought there was huge context to him being able to do that feat. I have to re look into that one. Ah here it is. All credit to @i_like_swords.
During the first arc of the Dawn of the Jedi series, Xesh arrived on Tython. As his ship crash landed, several Dark Side Force Users were killed in the process, Xesh in fact killing his own master. As a result of their deaths, the Dark Force Energy was released and absorbed by Xesh, making him a Dark Side Nexus.
This is the context to that feat.
But you forget, he absorbed their power, but he himself just suffered from a ship crash, was forced to fight multiple beasts, and was forced to fight three skilled Je'Daii. He was still tired and injured when he performed that Force Storm feat.
Ventress while beaten down and weak from fighting Savage and Dooku is capable of deflecting Force lightning from Dooku of all people, I see no reason for her not able to counter Xesh Lightning till she gets in close combat.
Xesh has better Lightning feats than Dooku, tbh. Dooku's best feat is killing a group of non-force sensitive Kiffar, Xesh's is killing a gigantic beast which had previously resisted other Force Lightning attacks, and killing a group of Force-sensitive Flesh Raiders. Though I do agree Asajj could counter his Lightning with her Lightsabers. But if she makes any opening, Xesh could strike with Lightning and, well, things are not going to end well for Asajj.
They all showed decent telepathy, but is a game changer? Not really. Master Fay is proof of this.
"She was the strongest of us all, and for a brief moment, I could feel how strong. I suspect she would have lived forever, if not for this one sacrifice." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
Master Fay was stated and harped by obi wan to be one of the most powerful Jedi of the time. So powerful she solved problems with no Lightsaber, lived well past her age in youth, and after being stabbed in the heart had the power to keep on living, and give obi Wan her strength to live. She was describe as a legend by the order in a time of legendary Jedi everywhere.
Here we clearly see her using her ability to mentally KO Ventress, and even while she is doing it, Ventress is crushing her heart, knowing full well what is Fay is doing. Fay strength and durability to live on without a heart is something Xesh cannot boast should he try the same thing.
It is a game changer. Master Fay's accolade from Kenobi is him mourning for his old friend, and he was referring to only the Jedi team on that planet. And Fay has never demonstrated any telekinetic of telepathic feat to suggest she's even comparable to Xesh. It's lolworthy to assume that Asajj could crush Xesh's heart. And even if she could, which she cannot, Xesh has superior TP feats to Fay, so he could subdue her even faster than Fay. It's quite the game changer indeed. No denying it.
So Telepathy Attack is not a solid argument of a win. I fore see Ventress crushing his heart before he could. In fact here is a power Ventress shows superior TK in, Force Crushing and Choke.
Uses Force Choke on a Arc Trooper, then drives him into her Lightsaber.
Force Chokes 4 beings at one time, crushing their throats.
Force crushes a large blaster, and then rag dolls a small platoon of Clone troopers within moments with TK slamming, and crushing.
While fatally wounded, Ventress uses force rage to Force Choke Obi Wan and Anakin.
Something even Xesh so far have not shown a aptitude for with his TK, but something Ventress uses with great skill, and often. She can also Force crush objects and organs.
Uses TK to crush a camera, and then again uses Saber throw with TK to take out another target.
I also showed her targeting hearts with TK on powerful force users. In short its another useful ability and skill in TK I do not see Xesh dealing with well, nor do I see his telepathy working well here.
She has targeted hearts of Fay, who isn't even remotely comparable to Xesh. Her choking arc troopers and smugglers is not a feat Xesh can't replicate. Her crushing a camera is also nothing special at all. The only feat you have in that line up that's actually impressive is her choking Anakin and Kenobi. And that is PIS. As we already know, Anakin can absolutely dominate Asajj on his own:
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Plus, even if you argue that it's not PIS, which it clearly is, Asajj was amped by rage when she did that.
Since Asajj favors head on battles, her concealment is also useless(and Xesh has a strong enough Force Sense to pierce her concealment either way).
I disagree with you casually throwing it out as a option for her.
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She totally used her Concealment Force abilities to hide in mid battle from Ahsoak and Luminara. Luminara who can sense invisible Droids fine, and a Jedi Master. Ahsoka who has super sense as per her alien biology, and shown to have super high Force Sensing abilities. Ventress hides in a intense battle from both when the chance arose to sneak attack later.
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Here she engages Skywalker who also has great Precognition in battle, and insane good Force Senses by feats. Yet she manages in a small battle area preform a stelth attack on him in mid battle.
In short, her concealment is a major factor if she feels the need to use it. Dantooine has plenty of rocks, tress, caves, and large farms on it.
There is plenty for her to work with here on this panet.
Conceded. But Asajj favors head on battle rather than simple ambushes. The only time she uses it is when she's outnumbered or facing a superior duelist. None of which is the case here.
I feel Xesh would be a worthy foe, but Ventress will have the advantage in close combat as soon the match starts. I feel she can survive or hold out on his force power by her own feats, and even preform feats with the force he never encountered. The biggest help is her fighting style. She is by feats much smarter using the environment with her Concealment, or TK abilities to get any edge she can in a fight. Those same abilities will help off set his own raw TK use, and help her get into close combat where she would handily win IMO.
Like I proven, she isn't much smarter in using TK at all. And her magnitude is well below Xesh's. And you still don't have a solid counter to Xesh's telepathy. Should Asajj get in close, Xesh would abuse his TK, or TP or Lightning. Any of which could give him the advantage over her. As soon as Xesh sees that he's fighting a better duelist, he'll overpower her and gain a victory.
Actually, that is an early usage of Jar'Kai. Jar'Kai and Niman were made and adopted into traditional forms by the Yovshin swordsmasters and Royal Machetero. Since the latter were wiped out around 25000 BBY, it's logical that the styles they used of fighting, Jar'Kai and dual fencing, were well before that. The incident with Xesh took part in 25,793. In other words, it's extremely possible that this was in fact an early stage of Jar'Kai.
While that makes alot of sense, its still not Jar Kai. She is using swords. swords have weight on the blade end, and blade edges. Lightsabers have no weight bu the handle, and cuts any direction. The styles use for the two would not be the same anymore than a short sword to a broadsword.
Problem is the only time she "switched it up" was when she was under assault by Mace Windu, and when pressured by Kenobi. She clearly keeps that tactic in reserve should a truly challenging foe show himself(and even then she doesn't use it most of the time- her duel with Anakin on Yavin 4, for example).
While again true, she still shown to use it if need be, a versatility Xesh does not have as Ventress does with her Lightsaber and various skill with those styles.
Dueling Skill
Let me show you why exactly the style edge is marginal at best. Shii-Cho is weak against single combat, Ataru is good for single combat. So does that mean Aayla Secura is a better duelist than Kit Fisto? Of course not. Form V is a good style to use against Form II Makashi. But does that mean that Ahsoka, a user of Form V, will have an edge over Shaak Ti or Asajj Ventress, users of Makashi? Of course not. The style advantage could only help if the two are evenly matched as duelists, and the one with the better style has a slight edge. But since Xesh and Asajj aren't evenly matched as duelists And Xesh uses strength based attacks frequently, which works well against Makashi and Jar'Kai users.
Here is the problem again. Kit Fisto has feats to say he is good with Shi Cho to overcome the weknessess, however!
Her Makashi/Jarkai beat Fisto anyway since his form is weaker, and she is as skilled. Most of your examples fail in the fact the skill of the user to the style. The fact is all your character has for a style is Shi Cho, and mine knows more exotic styles that came after that. Styles that are superior vs Shi Cho.
You have no basis for that argument. As I've told you before, the art of Jar'Kai was made well before 25.000 BBY. Jar'Kai and Niman were some of the latest styles of fighting to be made. Meaning it's more than possible that forms like Shii-Cho, Makashi or Soresu, or Shien were at least in development and these were it's early stages.
Except your wrong. Its clearly been stated Makashi did not come about till the original Sith vs Jedi wars. Soresu after that, so on and so forth. Thats why they are labeled as Style 1, 2, 3, 4, ect. They came in a order. Even the essential guide explains when these forms came about depending on the time periods where a Jedi's job and focus differ.
Im surprise you do not know this.
So because both Xesh and Skal'Nas were using styles in early development it makes the feats non-impressive? I don't think so. It's not as impressive as some of Asajj's feats, but given Skal'Nas's accolades, and the circumstances of the duel, and how quickly Xesh won, it's certainly a feat comparable.
I would not say its not impressive, only its still less than Ventress own skill, and lightsaber combat knowledge.
Most Trooper can get cut down or punched and kicked aside by well trained Force users easily. Xesh could perform similarly. And she managed to dodge Savage's attacks and lands a few kicks and punches on him. And she only uses unarmed combat when disarmed. Xesh demonstrated unarmed combat in combination with Forcesaber sequences.
Im just pointing out she is not inept in hand to hand combat. She also beat the hell out of Savage and his Brother in hand to hand before he became a force user, during the trials. But as i said, she is skilled in Hand to hand regardless.
Force powers
Telekinesis
I'm not convinced. Her TK, while certainly impressive, is solidly below Xesh in raw magnitude.
Solidly? Im not sure about that. Some of her feats are pretty raw in power. I showed them.
He has easily overpowered and one-shotted Shae Koda, Tasha Ryo and Trill via TK, respectively.
I already listed his feat of causing earthquakes and his feat of easily killing a beast with Force Wound. Which are honestly better TK feats than what we've seen from Ventress. He isn't ragdolling her, but he'll be successful in overpowering her.
This is not proof of anything. Ventress Force Choke Anakin and Obi Wan, and Ventress force smack around Anakin dozens of times. Force shove Savage easy more than a few times. Is this proof of anything? Not really, though the force choke is damn impressive actually, but Force Pushing is simple pushes, not TK dominance.
And if you wanna talk use in combat, here's some examples of Xesh:
And his earthquake feat is also a good demonstration of using TK with cunning. By using it, he distracted Rath, Shae and Tasha and escaped from them. It's both a use of magnitude and strategy through telekinesis.
Xesh is still better in this category.
He use a raw uncontrolled TK attack to distract. This compares to Ventress using the force TK to sneak attack, target gear, crush organs, or use her environment multiple times to beat small armies and Jedi Masters?
i think not. Its clear Ventress excels in the application of TK.
Lightning/Storm
Well, for one thing, here's Rath performing something similar to Dark Transfer or Lightning to subdue Trill:
He also used a ball of Lightning which, when redirected by Xesh, managed to knock back a Rancor-Dragon:
And Shae Koda managed to overwhelm the tutaminis of another Force Hound:
It's not worth much, but their power combined with Tasha couldn't drive back the beast, and then an exhausted Xesh used Lightning and killed it. Given the context of the feat, it's quite impressive. Among other feats, Xesh was capable of easily killing a group of Force Sensitive Flesh Raiders with Lightning:
Thats all pretty ok, but nothing superior to Dooku honestly. I stand while it may be a factor, its a counter able one thanks to her duel Lightsabers.
But you forget, he absorbed their power, but he himself just suffered from a ship crash, was forced to fight multiple beasts, and was forced to fight three skilled Je'Daii. He was still tired and injured when he performed that Force Storm feat.
He still absorb power he does not have naturally. Its not worth bringing up IMO.
Xesh has better Lightning feats than Dooku, tbh. Dooku's best feat is killing a group of non-force sensitive Kiffar, Xesh's is killing a gigantic beast which had previously resisted other Force Lightning attacks, and killing a group of Force-sensitive Flesh Raiders. Though I do agree Asajj could counter his Lightning with her Lightsabers. But if she makes any opening, Xesh could strike with Lightning and, well, things are not going to end well for Asajj.
Killing a Force Sensitive means no more powerful than non sensitive. Those Flesh Raiders have no technical knowledge of the force to resist it like Jedi, and even Jedi succumb to lightning all the time unless they use Tutaminis or their Sabers. All that matters is someone ability to block, or counter it. Im not sure why the Flesh Raiders matter, its not like they are say Vong who are "resistant" to force attacks.
Telepathy
It is a game changer. Master Fay's accolade from Kenobi is him mourning for his old friend, and he was referring to only the Jedi team on that planet. And Fay has never demonstrated any telekinetic of telepathic feat to suggest she's even comparable to Xesh. It's lolworthy to assume that Asajj could crush Xesh's heart. And even if she could, which she cannot, Xesh has superior TP feats to Fay, so he could subdue her even faster than Fay. It's quite the game changer indeed. No denying it.
Fay accolades were to her. I listed it as Obi stated she was the best among them, and felt her massive power even after she was dying when she gave him the means to escape. Fay has some feats that are great, but she still attack Ventress with mental attacks far superior than what Xesh showed. He is mentally assaulting where Fay is able to pull your thoughts and memories into a KO. Ventress was fully able to see this superior form of mental attack, and counter in a fashion with a heart crush.
Im not convince Xesh is going to win this way.
She has targeted hearts of Fay, who isn't even remotely comparable to Xesh. Her choking arc troopers and smugglers is not a feat Xesh can't replicate. Her crushing a camera is also nothing special at all. The only feat you have in that line up that's actually impressive is her choking Anakin and Kenobi. And that is PIS. As we already know, Anakin can absolutely dominate Asajj on his own:
Plus, even if you argue that it's not PIS, which it clearly is, Asajj was amped by rage when she did that.
Assajj was amped by anger, but she was also dying from a mortal wound, and nearly died from said wound till she was saved. So anger is balance out by being on deaths door.
I think its funny you think its PIS. Thats a easy cop out BS statement in itself. She was a very powerful Dark Sider. Fay stated this, hell the Emperor stated this!
Sidious: "There is a disturbance in the Force. Your assassin, she has become very powerful."
Dooku: "Yes, my lord, she is quite important to me"
Sidious: "Too important"
Dooku: "Master..."
Sidious: "Silence! I can sense her powers growing stronger. I would hate to think you're training your own Sith apprentice to destroy me"
Dooku: "Never! My allegiance is to you, and you alone."
Sidious: "Then you must prove it. Eliminate her."
-- The Clone Wars Season 3 Episode 12: Nightsisters
PIS my butt. She is simply underrated by many in the SW community.
Concealment
Conceded. But Asajj favors head on battle rather than simple ambushes. The only time she uses it is when she's outnumbered or facing a superior duelist. None of which is the case here.
While she favors front up duels, its still a option that she used before when pushed just like her use of staff lightsaber. The point is if she finds herself in trouble she can use options like these to turn the tide.
Also this Concealment helps Ventress as telepathy is useless if he cannot find her. Many Jedi tried to sense or reach Ventress with the Force, but her Concealment is second to none. Even Dooku had to compliment her on such when she stand right next to him with concealment, and he did not notice till she dropped it.
So TP can not only be countered by her use of Force Crushing, but it can be countered all together if she happen to start the cat and mouse game with her concealment. Striking him when its too late.
Conclusion
Like I proven, she isn't much smarter in using TK at all. And her magnitude is well below Xesh's. And you still don't have a solid counter to Xesh's telepathy. Should Asajj get in close, Xesh would abuse his TK, or TP or Lightning. Any of which could give him the advantage over her. As soon as Xesh sees that he's fighting a better duelist, he'll overpower her and gain a victory.
I disagree. Her use of force abilities, lightsaber skill against the level foes she faced, and force amped stats that press Skywalker himself is more than enough to suggest she can win the fight before Telepathy can down her. She has experience against it, and counters for it. I also do not think the TK power is enough to say he will rag doll her at all. Once in close combat, i am unsure Xesh will survive long.
While that makes alot of sense, its still not Jar Kai. She is using swords. swords have weight on the blade end, and blade edges. Lightsabers have no weight bu the handle, and cuts any direction. The styles use for the two would not be the same anymore than a short sword to a broadsword.
While again true, she still shown to use it if need be, a versatility Xesh does not have as Ventress does with her Lightsaber and various skill with those styles.
So what if she's using swords? They weigh more, which makes it harder for them to master Jar'Kai, which makes it even a more impressive feat for her to use it. And I agree that Ventress has more versatility.
Here is the problem again. Kit Fisto has feats to say he is good with Shi Cho to overcome the weknessess, however!
Her Makashi/Jarkai beat Fisto anyway since his form is weaker, and she is as skilled. Most of your examples fail in the fact the skill of the user to the style. The fact is all your character has for a style is Shi Cho, and mine knows more exotic styles that came after that. Styles that are superior vs Shi Cho.
One problem. Shii-Cho works well against multiple enemies/weapons. So when dueling a user of Jar'Kai, it helps if anything.
Except your wrong. Its clearly been stated Makashi did not come about till the original Sith vs Jedi wars. Soresu after that, so on and so forth. Thats why they are labeled as Style 1, 2, 3, 4, ect. They came in a order. Even the essential guide explains when these forms came about depending on the time periods where a Jedi's job and focus differ.
Im surprise you do not know this.
Makashi and the forms were developed fully during that time, yes. Prior to that, during the Dawn of the Jedi timeframe, they were using the early versions of those styles so to speak. As clearly, focuses of those styles(Form II, Form III, Form IV, etc.) were applied. Meaning Xesh won't be so unfamiliar with Asajj's tactics.
I would not say its not impressive, only its still less than Ventress own skill, and lightsaber combat knowledge.
Im just pointing out she is not inept in hand to hand combat. She also beat the hell out of Savage and his Brother in hand to hand before he became a force user, during the trials. But as i said, she is skilled in Hand to hand regardless.
I agreed with you that Xesh is the inferior duelist. But, based on feats, he can still compete. And Asajj is certainly not inept in hand to hand combat. Xesh is just better.
Solidly? Im not sure about that. Some of her feats are pretty raw in power. I showed them.
Yes he's quite solidly superior. Based on their feats of raw magnitude, anyways.
This is not proof of anything. Ventress Force Choke Anakin and Obi Wan, and Ventress force smack around Anakin dozens of times. Force shove Savage easy more than a few times. Is this proof of anything? Not really, though the force choke is damn impressive actually, but Force Pushing is simple pushes, not TK dominance.
He one-shotted them and took Shae and Tasha out of the fight with a mere Force Push. Asajj never did that to Savage or Anakin or Obi-Wan. She threw them back, but they re-engaged soon after that. See the difference?
He use a raw uncontrolled TK attack to distract. This compares to Ventress using the force TK to sneak attack, target gear, crush organs, or use her environment multiple times to beat small armies and Jedi Masters?
So you ignored my entire post there, basically? As I've demonstrated, Xesh took advantage of the environment. He used an earthquake to distract Rath, Koda and Ryo so he can escape from them, for example. And here's another example of that. He manipulates barrels around him to stop Shae Koda from catching up to him:
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And Xesh has also targeted organs:
Gallery
He use a raw uncontrolled TK attack to distract. This compares to Ventress using the force TK to sneak attack, target gear, crush organs, or use her environment multiple times to beat small armies and Jedi Masters?
And Asajj crushing a camera doesn't say much, tbh. She can crush metal, good for her. So could Xesh.
Its clear Ventress excels in the application of TK.
You have no solid basis for that at all. All you've proven is that Asajj can apply TK in combat like any smart Force user would, and much like Xesh would. And add to that Xesh's greater raw power and you see why he's above her in TK.
Thats all pretty ok, but nothing superior to Dooku honestly. I stand while it may be a factor, its a counter able one thanks to her duel Lightsabers.
Yes, she might counter it with her Lightsabers.
He still absorb power he does not have naturally. Its not worth bringing up IMO.
It is. His injuries and exhaustion from multiple battles with beasts and the Je'Daii should've been at least some what enough to nullify him amping himself by draining the life of some fodder.
Killing a Force Sensitive means no more powerful than non sensitive. Those Flesh Raiders have no technical knowledge of the force to resist it like Jedi, and even Jedi succumb to lightning all the time unless they use Tutaminis or their Sabers. All that matters is someone ability to block, or counter it. Im not sure why the Flesh Raiders matter, its not like they are say Vong who are "resistant" to force attacks.
Force-sensitives are harder to kill than non-force-sensitives. Force-sensitives can call on the Force to protect them and keep them going, and those were Force Sensitive Flesh Raiders capable on drawing on the Force. It's still more impressive than killing a group of Kiffar.
Fay accolades were to her. I listed it as Obi stated she was the best among them, and felt her massive power even after she was dying when she gave him the means to escape. Fay has some feats that are great, but she still attack Ventress with mental attacks far superior than what Xesh showed. He is mentally assaulting where Fay is able to pull your thoughts and memories into a KO. Ventress was fully able to see this superior form of mental attack, and counter in a fashion with a heart crush.
Your claim is baseless. Fay has never done anything to be even comparable to Xesh mentally tormenting Daegen Lok or blinding Tasha Ryo; you're reaching. Both Lok and Ryo are master level telepaths, which you would've known if you read their respect threads. And even if Fay has better TP than Xesh, which is a lolworthy notion given their feats, Fay has no telekinetic feat or accolade comparable to Xesh. She's definitely below even Asajj in terms of TK, hence why she could crush her heart. Xesh is far more powerful than her, thus making Asajj crushing his heart impossible.
Assajj was amped by anger, but she was also dying from a mortal wound, and nearly died from said wound till she was saved. So anger is balance out by being on deaths door.
Indeed. Just like Xesh's amplifications were balanced out.
I think its funny you think its PIS. Thats a easy cop out BS statement in itself. She was a very powerful Dark Sider.
Because it is PIS. Kenobi is Asajj's near-equal in terms of TK, and Anakin has dominated her before. There's absolutely no chance she could do that to them. She could choke Kenobi, yes, but hardly Anakin. You're just going to have to deal with it.
Fay stated this, hell the Emperor stated this!
Sidious only said she was growing stronger. Which indicates that she is just reaching her prime in power. Which, as we've seen, is somewhat above the likes of Kenobi as far as TK goes. Good for her to get a compliment, though, I guess.
PIS my butt. She is simply underrated by many in the SW community.
And she's also overrated by others. For example, you. Who just can't accept simple PIS.
Also this Concealment helps Ventress as telepathy is useless if he cannot find her. Many Jedi tried to sense or reach Ventress with the Force, but her Concealment is second to none. Even Dooku had to compliment her on such when she stand right next to him with concealment, and he did not notice till she dropped it.
So Dooku complimented her, a good accolade, indeed. But you didn't counter my point. Asajj prefers head-on conflict, which means she'll be fighting Xesh head-on throughout most of this duel. And that makes her a target for Xesh's telepathy or telekinesis.
So TP can not only be countered by her use of Force Crushing,
I've already countered this. Twice.
but it can be countered all together if she happen to start the cat and mouse game with her concealment. Striking him when its too late.
Once again, I've countered this. Not only does Asajj prefer head-on fights. But Xesh can, quite possibly, track her. He's sensed other Force users on the same planet as him, and he said that he is used to tracking people:
Her use of force abilities, lightsaber skill against the level foes she faced, and force amped stats that press Skywalker himself is more than enough to suggest she can win the fight before Telepathy can down her.
Amped stats. There is no solid evidence that she'll be amped against Xesh.
She has experience against it, and counters for it.
And as I've proven, she doesn't have counters for it. And she has no experience against either Mind Twist or Force Shadow. Fay's TP is just her bringing up Asajj's memories. They're more like Zannah's mental Sith spells, which could be Mind Twist. But she doesn't know what a Force Shadow is. Xesh could likely even form a Force Shadow to make her think she's fighting him when she really isn't, or even blind her like he did Tasha Ryo, since Ryo's TP feats are better than Asajj's.
I also do not think the TK power is enough to say he will rag doll her at all.
Ragdoll, I'm not sure if he could. But he'd be quite successful in overpowering her with TK. He did subdue the likes of Trill with TK. And Trill's TK feat of easily pushing a giant beast is comparable to what Asajj has done, tbh.
Once in close combat, i am unsure Xesh will survive long.
I don't see why not. He's been stated as the best Force Hound, who by themselves are high level enforcers of the Infinite Empire. He even utterly stomped other Force Hounds in a duel, one-shotting them during the battles on Tython. This is impressive as, at this time, Tython was geared towards the Dark, which would've amped the Force Hound:
This could be more of a reflex/speed feat. But given the fact that Xesh was distracted and tired from a previous fight with Flesh Raiders, it's still impressive.
And he's bested the greatest predor, Skal'Nas, in a duel. He could very well hold his own against Asajj in a duel. And, as I've proven multiple times so far, he can overpower her by abusing his TK or TP or Lightning in combat. And he'd do this as soon as he sees that she is the better duelist after holding his own for a decent amount of time.
@wollfmyth209: I think we are kinda done here. We are going back and forth on the same points now, and I feell the match is summed up now. Ready for votes?
Care to take a read and vote? The rules are basically just like in ILS's tournament. Vote for who you think had the best counters, points raised, presented his character better, etc. And explain why.
I hope you win SirFizz. I don't care if I lose, tbh. I just wanna have fun. And this was enjoyable :D Good debate man.
Learned cool things about Xesh and more about Ventress than I previously knew. Overall, my vote goes to Wollf based on the strength of the telepathy argument presented which I felt was sustained throughout the course of the debate. Props to both though.
Learned cool things about Xesh and more about Ventress than I previously knew. Overall, my vote goes to Wollf based on the strength of the telepathy argument presented which I felt was sustained throughout the course of the debate. Props to both though.
Huh, really? Because Xesh finds using Mind Twists in combat to be cowardly and has only ever used one on Daegen Lok in order to get necessary information out of him in a non-fight scenario. I'm surprised that didn't come up at some point...
But yeah sorry guys I don't have time to make a complex vote just yet. Sorting out some RL stuff and working on my debate in the tourney.
Learned cool things about Xesh and more about Ventress than I previously knew. Overall, my vote goes to Wollf based on the strength of the telepathy argument presented which I felt was sustained throughout the course of the debate. Props to both though.
Huh, really? Because Xesh finds using Mind Twists in combat to be cowardly and has only ever used one on Daegen Lok in order to get necessary information out of him in a non-fight scenario. I'm surprised that didn't come up at some point...
But yeah sorry guys I don't have time to make a complex vote just yet. Sorting out some RL stuff and working on my debate in the tourney.
NP, this match sat for a month, whats another week lol
@wollfmyth209: Bro I've worked 2 of those days and when i vote i vote carefully, don't mistake time as = lazy, but as someone who gives puts in effort in the CaV they are reading. Anyway I'm gonna go over it one more time and then ill vote so it will be an hour or so max
My vote goes to Wollf, but in a good debate, SFW had me at areas that I found agreeing, but the evidence given I can see what Xesh can win due to the debate itself. He can detect Ventress regardless of her force concealment which is something I already somewhat knew, but you provided evidence to say why, you gave in when necessary wollf and fought on points that you proved why Xesh would win in ( such as TK and prolly TP (slightly ). Overall the argument between you two was great, I'd say SFW has done a great job arguing for Ventress, but she does have a ton of lore to use as well. Either way good debate I'd say Wollf wins this one, but not by much prolly 5.5-6/10. @wollfmyth209@sirfizzwhizz
I made it simple and too the point cause it was pretty obvious over what was being fought and stuff, things I would of liked to see was an opener and such but I can see why Xesh wasn't opened like Ventress due to not having as many feats, or at least ones for display. Regardless SFW should keep his background story for those who lack completely knowledge on Ventress and its also nice to just read too as well.
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