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#1 Edited by mrtrevorguy (1198 posts) - - Show Bio

Fight takes place in Xavier's school of learning,

Justice league start the assult with no idea on there enemy's.

The x-men are aware there being invaded, but not by who.

Morals on, fight to death/KO/incapataion

Fight can not leave the school,

And no bfr allowed

JUSTCE LEAGUE

Superman

Green Lantern

Wonder Women

Captain Marvel

Aqua Man

Manhunter

X-MEN

Iceman

Colossus (with juggernaut powers)

Namor

Cyclops (with Pheniox force)

Magneto

Emma Frost

Who wins and why?

#2 Edited by Pokeysteve (7902 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure the level of Col/Juggs or Phoenix Cy powers but the X-Men go down otherwise. Emma gets put down by J'onn or Diana. Superman or Green Lantern cook Bobby. Cap Marvel should be able to handle Magneto or at least keep him busy. Aquaman occupies Namor till he gets help and that's all she wrote.

Maybe someone with better knowledge of my two unknowns can confirm or debate my thoughts.

#3 Posted by lachydotc (29 posts) - - Show Bio

JL

If prof X was in there I would give it away to X-men straight away but I guess that's why he isn't there (since Prof X is stronger than MM with mental abilities) anyway! Colossus, Cyclops and Magneto stand but not for long mostly because of MM and Sups but adding in Captain and WW makes its an overpowered team.

JL have to many key players while X-men dont.

#4 Posted by MarlboroMan (1517 posts) - - Show Bio

It really depends on the portion of Phoenix Force Cyclops have. If its all of 'em he might solo, if just 1/5 he is still going to be the strongest one in the battlefield but the battle will be even

#5 Posted by mrtrevorguy (1198 posts) - - Show Bio

He has his section only

#6 Edited by MisterWhisper (1800 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter is the allstar for his team on this one. Between intangibility and telepathy he will be a major issue.

Because morals are on, the X-Men have a chance, but not much of one.

Emma is the only chance they have against Superman and Martian Manhunter.

Unfortunately the will not be in the fight long enough to take them down.

Magneto might can pull something tricky with Wonderwoman's bracers to keep her from blocking a high powered shot from Juggernaut/Colossus or Scott.

Other than that they really have no answer for MM, Superman or maybe even Captain Marvel.

JLA win but they might lose Aquaman, Wonderwoman and maybe GL.

#7 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman alone could probably do this, but with this much backup it's over

JL curbstomps

#8 Edited by Ancient_0f_Days (11338 posts) - - Show Bio

Depending on who fights who.....Captain Marvel could blitz Magneto, Wonder Woman (who is immune to telepathy) could blitz Emma, Martian Manhunter could phase Colossus into the basement floor, Green Lantern can put Iceman into a bubble construct, if it's new 52 Aquaman he can hold off Namor but if its pre 52 then he stomps Namor, Superman may be able to stalemate Cyclops until Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter and Green Lantern come to back him up. As for Aquaman, J'onn can just mind rape Namor to help out.

JLA should win handily

#9 Edited by dondave (33364 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA quite easily

#10 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

I imagine these are current versions of Emma and Magneto which severely cripples the Xmen team to begin with. Either way the JLA has nothing for Cyclops with the Phoenix, especially since it takes a certain kind of energy to even give him pause, and they don't have access to that energy.

JLA go down, give Emma and Magneto there powers and you have a fight that doesn't place the entire JLA against Scott. Scott and Pioter can keep them busy allowing Emma (only needing a second) to unlock the full potential of all mutants on the field, not that they will need it with the Phoenix here, but it just gives the others something to do.

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#11 Posted by jobbernos (1420 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

Superman alone could probably do this, but with this much backup it's over

JL curbstomps

#12 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

Superman alone could probably do this, but with this much backup it's over

JL curbstomps

How will he take down Phoenix Cyclopes?

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#14 Posted by mrtrevorguy (1198 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman could not solo, stop being a fanboy

#15 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@jobbernos said:

@ciriel said:

Superman alone could probably do this, but with this much backup it's over

JL curbstomps

How will he take down Phoenix Cyclopes?

That's the Cyclops from AvX right? I was impressed by him beating Thor, but I didn't see anything that showed he had enough speed to deal with Superman. I know when Superman is faced with a lot of enemies he usually flies around really fast and into them.

If Scott has an answer to that then I was wrong, but with the team listed I still say the League wins.

#16 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@jobbernos said:

@ciriel said:

Superman alone could probably do this, but with this much backup it's over

JL curbstomps

How will he take down Phoenix Cyclopes?

That's the Cyclops from AvX right? I was impressed by him beating Thor, but I didn't see anything that showed he had enough speed to deal with Superman. I know when Superman is faced with a lot of enemies he usually flies around really fast and into them.

If Scott has an answer to that then I was wrong, but with the team listed I still say the League wins.

His answer to that is those physical attacks won't do much if any lasting damage. He (Superman) is not faced with a lot of enemies he is fighting a team while being on another team, so the logic that when faced with multiple enemies he will fly around fast doesn't really make sense here.

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#17 Posted by Raw_Material (3208 posts) - - Show Bio

Justice League FTW.

#18 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

Justice League FTW.

How? What do they have for Phoenix Cyclopes? They go down, they have no access to Wandas power, they have nothing to actually hurt him or even slow him down.

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#19 Edited by thanosii (1183 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread shows serious fanboyism in reality is anyone here saying Jla can take on 1/5 of a universal force. A force that single handed lay took out avengers one shotted Thor, gladiator ironman with prep and prof x. Clearly no one knows about the Phoenix five. Cyke soloes

#20 Posted by theONEtaichou (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

Besides Aquaman (and even then he would wreck them six ways to sunday)... everyone on the JL can potentially solo

#21 Posted by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people think everyone is stomping on PF Scott? The only way that group is taking out Scott is through TP if anything...but MM can struggle at times with an insane human like the Joker. Namor stomped on the Avengers and It was only Wanda that put him down. Thor was not much of a threat to the avatars...Physical force ain't going to cut it vs PF Scott and outside of a soul sword or powerful magic we really don't know what it takes to take out demon Colossus either.

#22 Posted by Schmalzel (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou: With the Juggy powers and Phoenix force not one of the JL can solo, I can see them taking it, but they do not solo any means. That DC Fan boy talk has to stop. I enjoyed Marvels comics earlier on, and now DC's have been better, but that isn't saying a lot since the stories and characters have gotten very stale. Fan boyism is a curable disease, get it looked at. :p

#23 Posted by comic_book_fan (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

@misterwhisper: not realy magneto and and cyclops with phoenix will kill or most of them.

#24 Posted by 14NC3 (1720 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't stop cyclops unless you have the scarlet witch. He could solo since there's no way to stomp him and even with the phoenix force he handled both the avengers and x-men with only 2/5 of the phoenix force. He even has telepathy to counter against martian manhunter.

#25 Posted by AngryHulks (2994 posts) - - Show Bio

@14nc3 said:

You can't stop cyclops unless you have the scarlet witch. He could solo since there's no way to stomp him and even with the phoenix force he handled both the avengers and x-men with only 2/5 of the phoenix force. He even has telepathy to counter against martian manhunter.

Sufficient, repeated punches should be able to keep Pheonix Cyclops down for KO counts. Namor was nearly KOed by Red Hulk, Vision, Thor, Thing, and Dr. Strange. If Red Hulk were to deliver few more punch, Namor would be KOed for sure. Not to mention Phoenix Cyclops supposedly have poorer durability compared to Phoenix Namor.

#26 Edited by Nightflash (713 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks: did you read AvX? It sounds like you didnt because it took a bunch of avengers who were almost torn after the fight to pieces just to beat namor.

#27 Edited by Nightflash (713 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

@lordofallhumans said:

@jobbernos said:

@ciriel said:

Superman alone could probably do this, but with this much backup it's over

JL curbstomps

How will he take down Phoenix Cyclopes?

That's the Cyclops from AvX right? I was impressed by him beating Thor, but I didn't see anything that showed he had enough speed to deal with Superman. I know when Superman is faced with a lot of enemies he usually flies around really fast and into them.

If Scott has an answer to that then I was wrong, but with the team listed I still say the League wins.

this doesnt prove anything. Superman managed to pucnh darkseid through a boom tube but if it wasnt for the boom tube, darkseid wouldve gotten right up and smacked the living $hit out of the justic league.

#28 Edited by AngryHulks (2994 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks: did you read AvX? It sounds like you didnt because it took a bunch of avengers who were almost torn after the fight to pieces just to beat namor.

I read, however, Avengers did almost knock Namor out before he fractured Rulk's arm in 2 pages.

I'm just saying that any of the Phoenix 5 is not invulnerable to physical damage, and they have shown pain and even bleeds after being surprise-attacked. There're several characters on Justice League who could delivers probably hundreds of punches over short period of time, something Avengers lacked of (though they achieve the same effect with numbers), given that Phoenix Cyclops is not as physically tolerant as Namor, he should be more susceptible to speed blitizing.

#29 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks said:

@nightflash said:

@angryhulks: did you read AvX? It sounds like you didnt because it took a bunch of avengers who were almost torn after the fight to pieces just to beat namor.

I read, however, Avengers did almost knock Namor out before he fractured Rulk's arm in 2 pages.

I'm just saying that any of the Phoenix 5 is not invulnerable to physical damage, and they have shown pain and even bleeds after being surprise-attacked. There're several characters on Justice League who could delivers probably hundreds of punches over short period of time, something Avengers lacked of (though they achieve the same effect with numbers), given that Phoenix Cyclops is not as physically tolerant as Namor, he should be more susceptible to speed blitizing.

scans? of his almost getting knocked out, how does that even work? did they put in narration "Namor almost knocked out" or did Namor say "I was almost knocked out"? I don't remember.

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#30 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't post that to say Superman>Darkseid. I just wanted to show what I meant by flying into people. Also I wasn't trying to be a fanboy I was just saying that only Cyclops has a chance against Superman. Even with the Phoenix Force,Cyclops got blitzed by Iron Man. Does it take a fanboy to point out that Iron Man is not as fast as most people on the League's side in this fight?

#31 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (3893 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

I didn't post that to say Superman>Darkseid. I just wanted to show what I meant by flying into people. Also I wasn't trying to be a fanboy I was just saying that only Cyclops has a chance against Superman. Even with the Phoenix Force,Cyclops got blitzed by Iron Man. Does it take a fanboy to point out that Iron Man is not as fast as most people on the League's side in this fight?

Did he hurt or take him down? I can get blitzed by a house fly but it won't do much because all that means is something came at me too fast for me to stop it.

P.S. I don't think your a fanboy, this place would be no fun if everybody agreed :)

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#32 Posted by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@nightflash said:

@angryhulks: did you read AvX? It sounds like you didnt because it took a bunch of avengers who were almost torn after the fight to pieces just to beat namor.

I read, however, Avengers did almost knock Namor out before he fractured Rulk's arm in 2 pages.

I'm just saying that any of the Phoenix 5 is not invulnerable to physical damage, and they have shown pain and even bleeds after being surprise-attacked. There're several characters on Justice League who could delivers probably hundreds of punches over short period of time, something Avengers lacked of (though they achieve the same effect with numbers), given that Phoenix Cyclops is not as physically tolerant as Namor, he should be more susceptible to speed blitizing.

Emma completely reformed from being shattered. Namor took on a blow from an enraged Thor to the back of the neck without much trouble and Scott stopped a Mjolnir strike with his pinky. The Avenger's didn't beat Namor.. Wanda did. If Wanda wasn't there, Strange, Thor, Rulk and the rest would be dead.

#33 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

I didn't post that to say Superman>Darkseid. I just wanted to show what I meant by flying into people. Also I wasn't trying to be a fanboy I was just saying that only Cyclops has a chance against Superman. Even with the Phoenix Force,Cyclops got blitzed by Iron Man. Does it take a fanboy to point out that Iron Man is not as fast as most people on the League's side in this fight?

Did he hurt or take him down? I can get blitzed by a house fly but it won't do much because all that means is something came at me too fast for me to stop it.

P.S. I don't think your a fanboy, this place would be no fun if everybody agreed :)

He did hurt him, but did not take him down. Cyclops is not as good a host for Phoenix as Jean, but he still recovers fast.

#34 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Yes Yes, we can dwell on the fact that J'onn has "struggled" with Joker or we can talk about when he made all of Arkham Asylum completely sane including the Joker,invaded the Spectre's mind, scanned the emotions of an entire galaxy and manipulated the minds of several reality warpers.

#35 Posted by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq: Yes Yes, we can dwell on the fact that J'onn has "struggled" with Joker or we can talk about when he made all of Arkham Asylum completely sane including the Joker,invaded the Spectre's mind, scanned the emotions of an entire galaxy and manipulated the minds of several reality warpers.

I know there are low feats and there are high end feats.

Just like Scott has 1/5 of the PF in him and Xavier being able to affect PF Namor might be considered a low end feat for a PF avatar or maybe not since Xavier took it to dark Phoenix as well in a battle that took place in "all infinite planes of existence" and won . That's why said it's debatable if TP will affect Scott and TP is the only weapon they have that might beat him.

#36 Posted by theONEtaichou (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou: With the Juggy powers and Phoenix force not one of the JL can solo, I can see them taking it, but they do not solo any means. That DC Fan boy talk has to stop. I enjoyed Marvels comics earlier on, and now DC's have been better, but that isn't saying a lot since the stories and characters have gotten very stale. Fan boyism is a curable disease, get it looked at. :p

pray tell friend, what would Colossus with Juggy's powers do? At best he would garner a stalemate. He can be mind raped by MMH, beat up by just about everyone on team DC (WWh style no less lol) and cannot win against anyone (bar Aquaman but even then). As for PF powered Scott, what did he do that you think could allow him to hold his own against the speed blitzers and power houses of the JL? It's not fanboyism, it's logic. As I said just about everyone on the JL can potentially solo barring Aquaman (and even then Aquaman can probably wreck them six ways to Sunday).

As for enjoying Marvel/DC, this has nothing to do with this here fight friend. That can be construed as coloring your opinion, you might want to get that looked at. Lol

sir, good day

#37 Posted by Schmalzel (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@schmalzel said:

@theonetaichou: With the Juggy powers and Phoenix force not one of the JL can solo, I can see them taking it, but they do not solo any means. That DC Fan boy talk has to stop. I enjoyed Marvels comics earlier on, and now DC's have been better, but that isn't saying a lot since the stories and characters have gotten very stale. Fan boyism is a curable disease, get it looked at. :p

pray tell friend, what would Colossus with Juggy's powers do? At best he would garner a stalemate. He can be mind raped by MMH, beat up by just about everyone on team DC (WWh style no less lol) and cannot win against anyone (bar Aquaman but even then). As for PF powered Scott, what did he do that you think could allow him to hold his own against the speed blitzers and power houses of the JL? It's not fanboyism, it's logic. As I said just about everyone on the JL can potentially solo barring Aquaman (and even then Aquaman can probably wreck them six ways to Sunday).

As for enjoying Marvel/DC, this has nothing to do with this here fight friend. That can be construed as coloring your opinion, you might want to get that looked at. Lol

sir, good day

So Emma Frost and the Phoenix Force can't do a single thing to the Martian? Like I said, the fan boy has to stop. I'm not saying the X-Men take it, to many power houses for the JL, and not specified if its full Phoenix force (if it was X-Men take it) or not and you have 2 mind rapers on the X-Men no way no one solos here, you should get looked at if you think anyone from the Justice League can solo with a Phoenix force and Emma Frost. Not to Mention Juggies powers.... no solo sorry.

#38 Edited by theONEtaichou (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@schmalzel said:

@theonetaichou said:

@schmalzel said:

@theonetaichou: With the Juggy powers and Phoenix force not one of the JL can solo, I can see them taking it, but they do not solo any means. That DC Fan boy talk has to stop. I enjoyed Marvels comics earlier on, and now DC's have been better, but that isn't saying a lot since the stories and characters have gotten very stale. Fan boyism is a curable disease, get it looked at. :p

pray tell friend, what would Colossus with Juggy's powers do? At best he would garner a stalemate. He can be mind raped by MMH, beat up by just about everyone on team DC (WWh style no less lol) and cannot win against anyone (bar Aquaman but even then). As for PF powered Scott, what did he do that you think could allow him to hold his own against the speed blitzers and power houses of the JL? It's not fanboyism, it's logic. As I said just about everyone on the JL can potentially solo barring Aquaman (and even then Aquaman can probably wreck them six ways to Sunday).

As for enjoying Marvel/DC, this has nothing to do with this here fight friend. That can be construed as coloring your opinion, you might want to get that looked at. Lol

sir, good day

So Emma Frost and the Phoenix Force can't do a single thing to the Martian? Like I said, the fan boy has to stop. I'm not saying the X-Men take it, to many power houses for the JL, and not specified if its full Phoenix force (if it was X-Men take it) or not and you have 2 mind rapers on the X-Men no way no one solos here, you should get looked at if you think anyone from the Justice League can solo with a Phoenix force and Emma Frost. Not to Mention Juggies powers.... no solo sorry.

Emma Frost cannot do anything to MMH. He is just beyond her in tp, add in his other physical powers she dies just knowing she has to fight MMH. And it's not PF, it is PF powered Scott who did what? What did PF Scott do that makes you thing he can take MMH, let alone all the others on the JL? What tp feats did Scott do again that suggest he could hang with MMH, let alone be able to even use it against the speeds of the JL? Therein lies the rub...

Also the OP says it's PF-powered Scott... did Scott ever have the full PF a la Jean? I don't believe so (I might be wrong, I need to check) but still the OP did not say Scott with the full PF (which he could have very easily) so we have no choice but to go by 1/5 PF powered Scott.

mate, someone needs to get looked at alright. It is PF powered Scott, who did nothing to suggest he could hang against the league, Emma who has no speed to counter the speed and the physical might of the JL, Colossus (with Juggy's powers) cannot tag let alone over power anyone... will now stop a Superman, or a MMH, or a GL, a warrior princess (and I don't mean Xena) and Captain Marvel? Anyone of these guys without PIS? yeah, friend, someone should really get looked at. lol

I still stand by everyone on the JL can solo, with the exception of AQ and even then he wrecks them three ways from Sunday. And that is not a joke

good day, sir

#39 Posted by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou: How will each member of the JLA will solo when none of the PF avatars were taken down by physical force? Why are you assuming punching and kicking a PF avatar will take them down when they can reform from being completely shattered, blocked Mjolnir with a pinky, and Tore Rulks apart with a simple twist of a wrist. Put Gladiator into a coma while they were holding back, The only thing that beat them was Wanda/Hope (who are PF kryptonite) or each other ( Colossus and Magik) The only threat to them is MM's telepathy and that's debatable. Gladiator, Thor, Rulk, Doc Strange and a whole lot of others really didn't do much against them.

They were clearly written to be higher then herald level heroes.

#40 Edited by theONEtaichou (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@theonetaichou: How will each member of the JLA will solo when none of the PF avatars were taken down by physical force? Why are you assuming punching and kicking a PF avatar will take them down when they can reform from being completely shattered, blocked Mjolnir with a pinky, and Tore Rulks apart with a simple twist of a wrist. Put Gladiator into a coma while they were holding back, The only thing that beat them was Wanda/Hope (who are PF kryptonite) or each other ( Colossus and Magik) The only threat to them is MM's telepathy and that's debatable. Gladiator, Thor, Rulk, Doc Strange and a whole lot of others really didn't do much against them.

They were clearly written to be higher then herald level heroes.

fantastic... now see in this here fight it is one PF member, do you really think one PF member can handle the entire JL given here... not forgetting though that blocking mjolnir, putting Glads in a coma, defeating Rulk (which can be achieved here by the various league members) is a fantastic achievement done by the avatars... plural!. The only Pf-powered Scott would be the version closer to Dark Phoenix (and he is not in the OP) who could fight this JL without PIS and have favorable odds of winning. MMH's tp is a tad a far more potent threat, they still didn't do anything that would put them over him tp wise. The 1/5 PF Scott here cannot do jack to stop a solo (maybe if he had the others). Not forgetting Tony made fun of PF Scott speedwise, and hurt him, or the other points in this thread given, especially about bleeding PF avatars? And you think that no one on the JL here can do that?

while they might have been written to be higher than level heroes (funnily someone needs to tell spiderman that, yo magik lol) they rarely (if at all ) demonstrated that "higher than herald" level. Emma + PF Scott cannot stop a solo from WW, MMH, GL,Superman, CM... anyone of these can solo using a combo of speed+strength+tp(mmh)/whatever gl decides to do not held back by PIS. I still stand by that assertion and have yet to be given points that could overcome the many strengths of the JL, especially from this team.

sir, good day

#41 Posted by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou: Emma reformed from getting completely shattered and even turned her shattered parts into an attack. Namor w/ 1/5th of the PF took on all the Avengers at once including Strange, Thor and Rulk, They didn't stop him. Batman has made Superman bleed w. a little venom, surely making an opponent bleed does not mean an automatic k.o. Yes I am sure the JLA can make PF Scott bleed, it doesn't mean they can k.o. him especially since both you and I don't know what it takes to k.o. a PF avatar outside of Wanda or Xavier's TP. Tony's or Nova's blitz certainly didn't do anything to them. It's not like superman hasn't been tackled before, and its not like he automatically loses when he gets blitzed and tackled. W/o pis you have one x-man with 1/5 of a universal force and another is Cyttorak's favorite Avatar, each individual Jla member is not taking down this entire x-team which includes Demon Colossus and PF Scott.

#42 Edited by theONEtaichou (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@theonetaichou: Emma reformed from getting completely shattered and even turned her shattered parts into an attack. Namor w/ 1/5th of the PF took on all the Avengers at once including Strange, Thor and Rulk, They didn't stop him. Batman has made Superman bleed w. a little venom, surely making an opponent bleed does not mean an automatic k.o. Yes I am sure the JLA can make PF Scott bleed, it doesn't mean they can k.o. him especially since both you and I don't know what it takes to k.o. a PF avatar outside of Wanda or Xavier's TP. Tony's or Nova's blitz certainly didn't do anything to them. It's not like superman hasn't been tackled before, and its not like he automatically loses when he gets blitzed and tackled. W/o pis you have one x-man with 1/5 of a universal force and another is Cyttorak's favorite Avatar, each individual Jla member is not taking down this entire x-team which includes Demon Colossus and PF Scott.

it's just Emma Frost mate, no PF powered Emma... please read the OP! only Scott has the PF here as stated in the OP. Also Namor's feats are not transferable since he is leagues above Emma and Scott anyways naturally. The PF enhancements would only add to his already impressive accolades. I fail to see how Scott gets Namor's feats considering he has been blitzed by IM. As for MMH, you think Wanda is in his league tp-wise? As for Prof X, he also is nowhere in MMH's league. MMH wrecks Scott tp-wise so at the very least he gets ko'd.

As for the fact that since no one who fought them was in the physical+speed league of the JL, does that mean they can never be ko'd? Even by Galactus, LT, PR Beyonder?? is that where we are going mate that even these guys using might alone cannot ko the PF avatars?

And as for being taken down... Scott eventually had the entire PF... how did the other 4 lose mate, if they are so unstoppable? how did they lose is what I am asking since they all started at 1/5 of PF (which is what Scott has here)? So what does a 1/5 mean here? If 1/5 was something they should never have lost, especially to people who are not even in the shadow of this be here JL? Did Wanda or X defeat them alone?

this team, strong true, but they are outclassed. no one here can stop a solo...

good day sir

#43 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou: Emma frost never could reform before the PF upgrade why would that feat just belong to her? They are all powered by 1/5th of the PF that means their powersets would include tk, matter manipulation, transmute things like giving wales legs, they were terraforming the planet and a lot of other powers. Scott even disposed of Thor easier then Namor did. He stopped Mjolnir with his pinky while just being powered by 1/5 of the PF, Thor didn't even get a hit in . Namor got hit more times then Scott did when he took on the Avengers. How is MM so above Xavier in TP? like i said in the previous posts TP is the probably the only way to take down Scott but that is debatable at best. Why would I think Wanda would out TP MM when she doesn't even have TP. Wanda was the only one who could harm the PF avatars but it wasn't through TP or physical blows. So MM is the biggest threat to Scott. The others? not so much....

Where did i say beings like Galactus or LT can't ko Scott? The individual members of the JLA are nowhere near those characters so i am not sure how Galactus taking Scott down is relevant to this discussion.

How did the 4 lose? Namor lost to Wanda ( actually it was a double ko), Magik and Colossus took each other out and Emma lost to Scott then Scott lost it to Wanda and Hope IIRC. None of them lost to any other character, not to Thor, not Hulk or Rulk not to Strange or Gladiator and not to all the Avengers and X-men combined. Colossus even said he had the power of a God and could just blow up the planet and reanimate the dead if he didn't hold back. They were still trying to be heroic and holding back that's why most of the X-men and Avengers survived.

#44 Posted by theONEtaichou (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@theonetaichou: Emma frost never could reform before the PF upgrade why would that feat just belong to her? They are all powered by 1/5th of the PF that means their powersets would include tk, matter manipulation, transmute things like giving wales legs, they were terraforming the planet and a lot of other powers. Scott even disposed of Thor easier then Namor did. He stopped Mjolnir with his pinky while just being powered by 1/5 of the PF, Thor didn't even get a hit in . Namor got hit more times then Scott did when he took on the Avengers. How is MM so above Xavier in TP? like i said in the previous posts TP is the probably the only way to take down Scott but that is debatable at best. Why would I think Wanda would out TP MM when she doesn't even have TP. Wanda was the only one who could harm the PF avatars but it wasn't through TP or physical blows. So MM is the biggest threat to Scott. The others? not so much....

Where did i say beings like Galactus or LT can't ko Scott? The individual members of the JLA are nowhere near those characters so i am not sure how Galactus taking Scott down is relevant to this discussion.

How did the 4 lose? Namor lost to Wanda ( actually it was a double ko), Magik and Colossus took each other out and Emma lost to Scott then Scott lost it to Wanda and Hope IIRC. None of them lost to any other character, not to Thor, not Hulk or Rulk not to Strange or Gladiator and not to all the Avengers and X-men combined. Colossus even said he had the power of a God and could just blow up the planet and reanimate the dead if he didn't hold back. They were still trying to be heroic and holding back that's why most of the X-men and Avengers survived.

wait are the Xmen in this OP powered by the PF? Only Scott is, what she and they did together =/= Scott. Give us ONLY Scott's feats with 1/5 PF that makes you think he can stop a solo here from anyone on the league with a speed+strength+magic/tp etc combo. Not a PIS laden comic (as all comics must to create a story - unfortunately this here be a battle forum and 1/5PF Scott vs Thor would not be a curbstomp of Thor by Scott). Thor could have used other powers besides throw mjolnir. Therein lies the rub, friend. Add in the fact that Rulk nearly KO'd Namor doesn't bode well for Scott against beings whose strength outclasses Rulk.

As for Emma reforming I believe she was in diamond form, what can she do when she is blitzed before she changes? Something everyone on the JL can do...

I brought up the fallacy that since they weren't ko'd by physical might, does that mean they can never be ko'd by physical might? even if it is by LT, Galuctus? not forgetting Namor and Rulk by the way? Especially since their are fighting physical powerhouses here that each individually outclasses >90% of the people they fought..

What Colossus said means what against the JL mate? Let him blow up the planet, the JL will still crush him. Fighting CA, Wolverine, SHIELD, Spiderman etc etc =/= winning against the JL. A battle forum Superman/MMH/W/CM would stomp the same teams the entire PF avatars stomped alone (some more than others) if you put them in the same comic and they replaced the avatars. As for holding back, then how can we know what they can really do? Can they challenge the LT? No mate, we go by what they did and leave the speculation aside.

As for MMH being greater than X tp wise, I think the feats already mentioned here are just fine. I really don't want to get into who is greater because people bring up the "infinite planes of existence" and I lose some precious neurons (I apologize I do not mean you will do that, but in case it does occur I concede right now).

sir, good day

#45 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou: Show me scan were any of the P 5 were nearly ko'ed by a punch? Why is it PIS for Thor to lose with someone with 1/5 of PF? He didn't lose to just Scott, he lost to Emma, Magik and Colossus and Namor. So it clearly wasn't a fluke. The individual members of the P5 were clearly written to be much higher then a very powerful character like Thor. Where did Rulk nearly ko Namor? Rulk got stomped by Demon Colossus. Namor tore his arm off.

Why do you keep bringing up the LT? What does the P 5 challenging the LT have do anything with the P5 Scott being able to take on an individual of the JLA? Namor stomped on the Avengers by himself which included Thor, Rulk and Strange. Scott would have done the same and casually took out Thor as well and dismantled Ironman's armor with a thought through TK. He didn't even need to move out of his original place when he did this. If you think any single person from the JLA will stomp that whole Avengers team the way Namor did then I don't need to continue this debate any farther.

#46 Posted by Schmalzel (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonetaichou: As mentioned and you keep ignoring if Scott can take down Thor, he can "hang" if not beat a lot of the JL. But as I said the fan boy in you says stomp for the JL. I'm not saying X-Men win, but no way the JL stomp in this.

#47 Edited by theONEtaichou (1502 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@theonetaichou: Show me scan were any of the P 5 were nearly ko'ed by a punch? Why is it PIS for Thor to lose with someone with 1/5 of PF? He didn't lose to just Scott, he lost to Emma, Magik and Colossus and Namor. So it clearly wasn't a fluke. The individual members of the P5 were clearly written to be much higher then a very powerful character like Thor. Where did Rulk nearly ko Namor? Rulk got stomped by Demon Colossus. Namor tore his arm off.

Why do you keep bringing up the LT? What does the P 5 challenging the LT have do anything with the P5 Scott being able to take on an individual of the JLA? Namor stomped on the Avengers by himself which included Thor, Rulk and Strange. Scott would have done the same and casually took out Thor as well and dismantled Ironman's armor with a thought through TK. He didn't even need to move out of his original place when he did this. If you think any single person from the JLA will stomp that whole Avengers team the way Namor did then I don't need to continue this debate any farther.

Mate, I never said it was PIS for Thor to lose, just the fact all he did was throw his hammer and then get wrecked as you mentioned. Thor could have done a lot more but for the sake of the story (again PIS laden comic to create a story) he just threw his hammer as you say. Can Scott take wins... yes. I even agreed with you mate, all you had to do was read my statement and pause. Can 1/5 PF Scott curbstomp Thor in a battle forum... hell no! That is what you might have missed mate. As for Rulk I took Angryhulks at his word. I might have to go and actually find the scans myself, a most distasteful exercise. So may I pause there... but irrespective Namor got taken down in Avengers vs. X-Men issue number 8 iirc and the people who took him down before the rest of the PF members showed up were no way comparable to the JL members.

I keep bringing up the LT because you had stated that physical might WILL NOT KO a 1/5 PF member... so I asked not even the LT? to show the absurdity of your claim, friend.I had hoped to show the fallacy of your position.

Were the Avengers to attack them as exactly as they attacked the PF members than any JL member here would wreck them mate, maybe not the very exact way since the JL doesn't have similar powers. But if all Thor is gonna do is throw mjolnir, IM is gonna blitz do you really think MMH,Superman,CM,WW would not defeat them... faster, stronger opponents? come on... Scott was blitzed by IM for heavens sake... how would he react to getting a proper blitz from Superman,WW,CM,MMH?? Guys who make IM look like a snail...

good day, sir

@theonetaichou: As mentioned and you keep ignoring if Scott can take down Thor, he can "hang" if not beat a lot of the JL. But as I said the fan boy in you says stomp for the JL. I'm not saying X-Men win, but no way the JL stomp in this.

so mate, all you bring up is just insults? got it, friend. it's been a pleasure

btw I said besides Aquaman, the other JL members can potentially solo. The only one I can trully make a case to solo is MMH (others as well but harder without bfr) and I am still not saying that... I am saying one 1/5PF Scott cannot stop a solo from any of these guys... bring the feats, compare them to what each individual JLer can and has done... then ask yourself friend, can he? Can Scott stop a potential solo? therein lies the rub

good day!

#48 Posted by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@theonetaichou: Show me scan were any of the P 5 were nearly ko'ed by a punch? Why is it PIS for Thor to lose with someone with 1/5 of PF? He didn't lose to just Scott, he lost to Emma, Magik and Colossus and Namor. So it clearly wasn't a fluke. The individual members of the P5 were clearly written to be much higher then a very powerful character like Thor. Where did Rulk nearly ko Namor? Rulk got stomped by Demon Colossus. Namor tore his arm off.

Why do you keep bringing up the LT? What does the P 5 challenging the LT have do anything with the P5 Scott being able to take on an individual of the JLA? Namor stomped on the Avengers by himself which included Thor, Rulk and Strange. Scott would have done the same and casually took out Thor as well and dismantled Ironman's armor with a thought through TK. He didn't even need to move out of his original place when he did this. If you think any single person from the JLA will stomp that whole Avengers team the way Namor did then I don't need to continue this debate any farther.

Mate, I never said it was PIS for Thor to lose, just the fact all he did was throw his hammer and then get wrecked as you mentioned. Thor could have done a lot more but for the sake of the story (again PIS laden comic to create a story) he just threw his hammer as you say. Can Scott take wins... yes. I even agreed with you mate, all you had to do was read my statement and pause. Can 1/5 PF Scott curbstomp Thor in a battle forum... hell no! That is what you might have missed mate. As for Rulk I took Angryhulks at his word. I might have to go and actually find the scans myself, a most distasteful exercise. So may I pause there... but irrespective Namor got taken down in Avengers vs. X-Men issue number 8 iirc and the people who took him down before the rest of the PF members showed up were no way comparable to the JL members.

I keep bringing up the LT because you had stated that physical might WILL NOT KO a 1/5 PF member... so I asked not even the LT? to show the absurdity of your claim, friend.I had hoped to show the fallacy of your position.

Were the Avengers to attack them as exactly as they attacked the PF members than any JL member here would wreck them mate, maybe not the very exact way since the JL doesn't have similar powers. But if all Thor is gonna do is throw mjolnir, IM is gonna blitz do you really think MMH,Superman,CM,WW would not defeat them... faster, stronger opponents? come on... Scott was blitzed by IM for heavens sake... how would he react to getting a proper blitz from Superman,WW,CM,MMH?? Guys who make IM look like a snail...

good day, sir

@schmalzel said:

@theonetaichou: As mentioned and you keep ignoring if Scott can take down Thor, he can "hang" if not beat a lot of the JL. But as I said the fan boy in you says stomp for the JL. I'm not saying X-Men win, but no way the JL stomp in this.

so mate, all you bring up is just insults? got it, friend. it's been a pleasure

btw I said besides Aquaman, the other JL members can potentially solo. The only one I can trully make a case to solo is MMH (others as well but harder without bfr) and I am still not saying that... I am saying one 1/5PF Scott cannot stop a solo from any of these guys... bring the feats, compare them to what each individual JLer can and has done... then ask yourself friend, can he? Can Scott stop a potential solo? therein lies the rub

good day!

Please read the issue again. The Avengers did not take Namor down. Wanda took down Namor and she got ko'ed as well. She is the P5's kryptonite. Scott burned his hand by just touching her.The rest Avengers got stomped on. This JLA line up does not have Wanda.

If you say Thor could have done a lot more then throw his hammer and use his other powers, then I can say Scott can do more then simply block Mjolnir with his pinky and blast him with his eye beams as well. He was 1/5 of the PF which entitles him to a lot more powers.

I said physical might from these line up of the JLA would not put Scott down. How can a punch ko someone who can reform and regen from being torn or shattered to bits?

Why do you keep on bringing up the blitz by Iron man? Did that blitz do anything to Scott? Scott dismantled his armor with a wave of his hand. All these JLA members have been tackled and blitzed by certain opponents, do they lose all the time just because someone blitzes them? Is it an automatic loss when a gl has his constructs broken? or Superman bleeds or WW grunts in pain? Is it a loss when MM gets tackled to the ground? The Specter had Black Adam punch straight through his head, does that mean that BA won? Batman with venom made superman bleed, does that mean Bats won?

Namor took a full shot in the back of the head from Thor bearing down with Mjolnir and nothing happened. Thor would be able to hurt these Jla members with a similar shot. We are going in circles...ok fine you think every single member of this JLA line up can solo this whole x-team including PF scott and Demon Colossus. You are entitled to your opinion.

#49 Posted by GonnaRain (752 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL, Superman or anyone on the JL side soloing a team with a Phoenix Force avatar? Yeah right.

Then ok, Cyke solos.

#50 Posted by Schmalzel (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@theonetaichou: Show me scan were any of the P 5 were nearly ko'ed by a punch? Why is it PIS for Thor to lose with someone with 1/5 of PF? He didn't lose to just Scott, he lost to Emma, Magik and Colossus and Namor. So it clearly wasn't a fluke. The individual members of the P5 were clearly written to be much higher then a very powerful character like Thor. Where did Rulk nearly ko Namor? Rulk got stomped by Demon Colossus. Namor tore his arm off.

Why do you keep bringing up the LT? What does the P 5 challenging the LT have do anything with the P5 Scott being able to take on an individual of the JLA? Namor stomped on the Avengers by himself which included Thor, Rulk and Strange. Scott would have done the same and casually took out Thor as well and dismantled Ironman's armor with a thought through TK. He didn't even need to move out of his original place when he did this. If you think any single person from the JLA will stomp that whole Avengers team the way Namor did then I don't need to continue this debate any farther.

Mate, I never said it was PIS for Thor to lose, just the fact all he did was throw his hammer and then get wrecked as you mentioned. Thor could have done a lot more but for the sake of the story (again PIS laden comic to create a story) he just threw his hammer as you say. Can Scott take wins... yes. I even agreed with you mate, all you had to do was read my statement and pause. Can 1/5 PF Scott curbstomp Thor in a battle forum... hell no! That is what you might have missed mate. As for Rulk I took Angryhulks at his word. I might have to go and actually find the scans myself, a most distasteful exercise. So may I pause there... but irrespective Namor got taken down in Avengers vs. X-Men issue number 8 iirc and the people who took him down before the rest of the PF members showed up were no way comparable to the JL members.

I keep bringing up the LT because you had stated that physical might WILL NOT KO a 1/5 PF member... so I asked not even the LT? to show the absurdity of your claim, friend.I had hoped to show the fallacy of your position.

Were the Avengers to attack them as exactly as they attacked the PF members than any JL member here would wreck them mate, maybe not the very exact way since the JL doesn't have similar powers. But if all Thor is gonna do is throw mjolnir, IM is gonna blitz do you really think MMH,Superman,CM,WW would not defeat them... faster, stronger opponents? come on... Scott was blitzed by IM for heavens sake... how would he react to getting a proper blitz from Superman,WW,CM,MMH?? Guys who make IM look like a snail...

good day, sir

@schmalzel said:

@theonetaichou: As mentioned and you keep ignoring if Scott can take down Thor, he can "hang" if not beat a lot of the JL. But as I said the fan boy in you says stomp for the JL. I'm not saying X-Men win, but no way the JL stomp in this.

so mate, all you bring up is just insults? got it, friend. it's been a pleasure

btw I said besides Aquaman, the other JL members can potentially solo. The only one I can trully make a case to solo is MMH (others as well but harder without bfr) and I am still not saying that... I am saying one 1/5PF Scott cannot stop a solo from any of these guys... bring the feats, compare them to what each individual JLer can and has done... then ask yourself friend, can he? Can Scott stop a potential solo? therein lies the rub

good day!

The PF even 1/5 would have enough telepathy powers to counter MMH, Emma Frost is one of the most powerful telepaths and the fact that Colossus has Juggies powers he could counter Supes. I'm not saying they win but if Doomsday kills Supes a combo of Colossus with Juggies powers would hold his own against Supes, MMH can be at least warded off for a time among others... There is no solo. Nor there would there be with how their powers are measured up.