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#1 Posted by the boogeyman (22 posts) - - Show Bio

who would win. this includes all new and old members

#2 Posted by the boogeyman (22 posts) - - Show Bio

personally i would choose the x-men because of sheer size and strength

#3 Posted by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84678 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA, cause Zatanna can shut down the telepaths and Superman cant be stopped.

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#4 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

x-men

#5 Posted by the boogeyman (22 posts) - - Show Bio

x men because consider the size of the x-men to the jla. there are more x-men.

#6 Posted by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84678 posts) - - Show Bio

the boogeyman says:

"x men because consider the size of the x-men to the jla. there are more x-men."

What? How do you figure that?

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#7 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

the boogeyman says:

"x men because consider the size of the x-men to the jla. there are more x-men."

That's debatable and even it it's true its not by that much. Besides haven't you heard of quality over quantity?

#8 Posted by NiteFly (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"the boogeyman says:
"x men because consider the size of the x-men to the jla. there are more x-men."

That's debatable and even it it's true its not by that much. Besides haven't you heard of quality over quantity?"

I don't know about quality. In the history of the X-Men there have been some pretty heavy hitters:

Xavier, Vulcan, Phoenix, Cable, Juggernaut, Magneto, Joseph, Rachel Grey, Polaris, Psylocke, Storm, Cyclops, Iceman, Emma Frost, X-Man? I may be missing some, but that's not bad.

#9 Posted by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84678 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Martain Manhunter, Green Lantern, Red Tornado, Zattanna, Atom, Booster Gold, Steel, Hawkman, Dr. Fate, Mr. Miracle, Big Barda, Firestorm.

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#10 Posted by Case Closed (184 posts) - - Show Bio

I am more of a marvel guy, but honestly Superman starts flying around faster than the X-Man can see and he throws all of heroes that can't in outer space on the moon.

After that is done I am sure they figure out a way to get some kryptonite or something. While they try to get it the other folks will break the x-men in two.

I don't understand while marvel fan boys always want to trump up their comics as a means to qualify the existence of Marvel Universe. The qualities of marvel that people enjoy are the fact that the reader can relate to the characters on some level.

#11 Posted by Final Arrow (24388 posts) - - Show Bio

#12 Posted by U R Sofa King We Todd Did (1124 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP!! (I am glad you all could be here for my first "bump".)

#13 Posted by King Saturn (224026 posts) - - Show Bio
JLA wins here
#14 Posted by JThree47693 (2538 posts) - - Show Bio
@U R Sofa King We Todd Did said:
"BUMP!! (I am glad you all could be here for my first "bump".) "

Lol
#15 Posted by stormlover1994 (906 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA wins here, the X-Men are strong but the JLA is to much for them to handle without some of the Avengers....
#16 Posted by King Saturn (224026 posts) - - Show Bio
@U R Sofa King We Todd Did said:
" BUMP!! (I am glad you all could be here for my first "bump".) "
nice
#17 Posted by MrDirector786 (43516 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman, Wonder Woman, the Green Lantern, the Flash, Zatanna, and more can take out a lot of the X-men on their own. JLA wins.

#18 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio

Xmen wuld win Pheonix and Vulcan can destroy just about anything and whoever said superman is undefeatable..... ughm no kryptonite superman prime monarch/ captain atom and doomsday are all people who defeated him in his own universe.  When marvel and Dc combined and had awar the hulk defeated superman so by no means is he "undefeatable".
#19 Posted by Moonglow (346 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:
"

JLA, cause Zatanna can shut down the telepaths and Superman cant be stopped.

"
#20 Posted by Lunacyde (18632 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if you added in Avengers characters JLA still wins

#21 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde said:
"Even if you added in Avengers characters JLA still wins "

@MrDirector786 said:
"Superman, Wonder Woman, the Green Lantern, the Flash, Zatanna, and more can take out a lot of the X-men on their own. JLA wins. "
do u guys not realize the power of the pheonix it can destroy all living things within a couple seconds with little effort and even if she dies she comes back and ok Zatanna has magic but she can't destroy entire galaxies or planets and supermans power is over rated i have the death of superman and in it he gets his ass handed to him  by soomthing not even as powerful as the silver surfer or hulk. i realize JlA is big but who do they really have that can effect things ata cosmic level.
#22 Posted by Lunacyde (18632 posts) - - Show Bio

Death of Superman is not consistent with Superman's other showings.
 
The Phoenix Force itself is that powerful, Jean Grey as the Phoenix is not.

#23 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde:
yes but at times were jean gray is about to die she can let it take full control so and even then shes still super powerful and superman prime and monarch also have beaten superman badly to hes not as inesdtructible as ppl make him out to be.
#24 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde said:
"Even if you added in Avengers characters JLA still wins "

ohand with the Avengers they wuld have Sentry marvels more powerful version of the sentry and theyd have hulk and so many othrs that are amazingly powerful like thor or iron man( hes more powerful than he seems hes) and much more
#25 Posted by Lunacyde (18632 posts) - - Show Bio

Hal Jordan could beat all of the people you mentioned from the Avengers...I'm not impressed.

#26 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde said:
"Hal Jordan could beat all of the people you mentioned from the Avengers...I'm not impressed. "

yeah thats why Superman prime beat a whole fleet of greenlanterns byhimself and hulk who has unlimited strength wich means hes STRONGER culd to and the sentry is to oh and dude in a crossover written by both marvel and dc Iron man beet green lantern so im srry dude but now im not impressed at all
#27 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio

scratch that the silver surfer beat green lantern and the hulk almost killed the silver surfer so still its a no dude
#28 Posted by Lunacyde (18632 posts) - - Show Bio

Why bring Superboy Prime into this? He would murder the entire roster of the X-Men before they had a chance to fight back. Also he beat 30 Green lanterns and none of them were higher up Green lantern's, let alone the greatest Green Lantern. 
 
Hulk's strength is not unlimited and Crossovers are non-canon. There is no way in hell Iron man would beat a high end GL like Hal Jordan. His constructs are nigh indestructible, and if he really wanted to he could easily vaporize Iron man.

#29 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde said:
"Why bring Superboy Prime into this? He would murder the entire roster of the X-Men before they had a chance to fight back. Also he beat 30 Green lanterns and none of them were higher up Green lantern's, let alone the greatest Green Lantern.   Hulk's strength is not unlimited and Crossovers are non-canon. There is no way in hell Iron man would beat a high end GL like Hal Jordan. His constructs are nigh indestructible, and if he really wanted to he could easily vaporize Iron man. "

first of all i know im not going to get through to you because you obviously have an undying fanboy superlove for DC. but if the writers are willing to admit there charactes are beteen then u the reader shuld accept it to and dc isnt invincible all the characters have been beaten and i remember prime being beaten by a guy synthesing earth prime kryptonite and theres mutants that can make substances out of nothing so there u go prime is down superman wuld die to hulk because hulk as he gets madder gains strength and since ur all technical that is "CANNON" so with enough strength he culd break a green light construct or sentry since he can absorb energy or vulcan who can manipulate energy culd take the green light ( light is energy so u cant get out of that one) and absorb it and drain hal's ring rendering him pretty powerless cuz he's not Ion so he has to recharge.
#30 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio

also there is a way iron man culd win he culd culd make a suit that can absorbe the greenlaterns energy attacks to give himself power he has done this to heroes before like thor but now ur just going to say thor isnt as great as Greenlatern. dude i am not marvel or dc biased i just havent heard any convincing arguements that arent clouded by favoritism.
#31 Posted by Lunacyde (18632 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes these mutants ar egoing to magically know his wekness is a radioactive hunk of rock from his home planet and then yes they are going to know exactly how to make a piece of this rock from a universe that no longer exists....good one.
 
I don't have an undying love for DC. I admit I prefer more DC ttiles than Marvel ones but I only speak from experience that the facts support my conclusions. 
 
Hulk takes time to get angrier/stronger, and WWH one of the strongest forms of Hulk couldn't even take out a Sentry who was holding back. Hulk is a grounded brick so he can easily be BFR'd and he has never shown the kind of strength you are talking baout in the comics, its all theoretical. How do you know that Hulk's strength is unlimited? A being can only get so angry you know.
 
Cannon= A large gun                                     Canon = The continuing storyline of a comic universe.
 
The Green lanterns light doesn't exist in the Marvel universe, it's alien to them who says they would know how to manipulate it or drain it?

#32 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde said:
"Yes these mutants ar egoing to magically know his wekness is a radioactive hunk of rock from his home planet and then yes they are going to know exactly how to make a piece of this rock from a universe that no longer exists....good one.  I don't have an undying love for DC. I admit I prefer more DC ttiles than Marvel ones but I only speak from experience that the facts support my conclusions.   Hulk takes time to get angrier/stronger, and WWH one of the strongest forms of Hulk couldn't even take out a Sentry who was holding back. Hulk is a grounded brick so he can easily be BFR'd and he has never shown the kind of strength you are talking baout in the comics, its all theoretical. How do you know that Hulk's strength is unlimited? A being can only get so angry you know.  Cannon= A large gun                                     Canon = The continuing storyline of a comic universe.  The Green lanterns light doesn't exist in the Marvel universe, it's alien to them who says they would know how to manipulate it or drain it? "

dp u not remember me saying that sentry is in the avengers, so u saying hulk got beat by someone im using against ur ppl didnt help u and even so he wasnt holding back they both exerted their power and u dnt have to know somthin to recognize it because i was a baby once and i drank water with the instict but a superhuman with a bunch of experience like vulcan can identify energy especially since he manipulates all energy so one new one is just going to add to his array of energy projections and so what if i messed up canon u messed up are in  the first line of ur reply. oh and its been stated in the comics and marvel handbookes that the hulks strength grow with anger and wen ur mind works like a 2 year old u can get as angry as u possible can wich is as much as u want to.
#33 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde said:
"Yes these mutants ar egoing to magically know his wekness is a radioactive hunk of rock from his home planet and then yes they are going to know exactly how to make a piece of this rock from a universe that no longer exists....good one.  I don't have an undying love for DC. I admit I prefer more DC ttiles than Marvel ones but I only speak from experience that the facts support my conclusions.   Hulk takes time to get angrier/stronger, and WWH one of the strongest forms of Hulk couldn't even take out a Sentry who was holding back. Hulk is a grounded brick so he can easily be BFR'd and he has never shown the kind of strength you are talking baout in the comics, its all theoretical. How do you know that Hulk's strength is unlimited? A being can only get so angry you know.  Cannon= A large gun                                     Canon = The continuing storyline of a comic universe.  The Green lanterns light doesn't exist in the Marvel universe, it's alien to them who says they would know how to manipulate it or drain it? "

oh and prime universe kryptonite dsnt "not exist anymore" until it was artificialy made from someones powers so were did he get the info on how to make it if its chemical make up wuld have never been known 
#34 Posted by Lunacyde (18632 posts) - - Show Bio

Mentioning Sentry helps me because it is a generally accepted fact that Superman is superior to Sentry and he is on my side.  My point was that Hulk can't even defeat a weaker copy of Superman how is he suppose dot beat the real thing, or a GL who has been shown to go toe to toe with Supes?
 
I only mentioned you spelling canon wrong because you had it in all caps like I spelled it wrong in my post before. I thought you were trying to say I spelled it wrong. Maybe I was wrong about that ? What were you going for with the all caps?
 
There is a physical upper limit to how angry you can get. It's not never ending, there is a point where you can't get any angrier. I will only accept strength feats that have been shown in comics.

#35 Posted by MrDirector786 (43516 posts) - - Show Bio

IF Phoenix is in this, then the X-men win. But without her they lose. Even with Avengers members they'd lose. I know you think Hulk would beat Superman because he gets stronger as he gets angrier, but you seem to be using that to say he's unbeatable when he's been beaten before. Someone can destroy Hulk BEFORE he gets that strong. Superman has heat vision that can burn so hot scientists can't measure it and can expand it over a large range. He can just vaporize every last molecule of the Hulk and it's over for him. Or, just blitz him and knock him out early on. Then the rest of the team can easily take out the X-men. Like I said, Superman can blitz more than half the team, Wonder Woman could too. Flash could steal everyone's speed, Green Lantern can take out most of them himself too. The only way I see the X-men winning is if they have Phoenix.

#36 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde said:
"Mentioning Sentry helps me because it is a generally accepted fact that Superman is superior to Sentry and he is on my side.  My point was that Hulk can't even defeat a weaker copy of Superman how is he suppose dot beat the real thing, or a GL who has been shown to go toe to toe with Supes? I only mentioned you spelling canon wrong because you had it in all caps like I spelled it wrong in my post before. I thought you were trying to say I spelled it wrong. Maybe I was wrong about that ? What were you going for with the all caps?   There is a physical upper limit to how angry you can get. It's not never ending, there is a point where you can't get any angrier. I will only accept strength feats that have been shown in comics. "

were has it been proven that the superman is proven to be stronger than the sentry cuz ive nevr herd that ever in anything official ive heard superman fans saying that but fans are always going to say there favorite is more powerfuland with the whole anger thing its a comic so u never know how strong he is and hulk could possibly unleash devil hulk the possible most powerful hulk thats never been seen if u really want ot go into speculation and if ur going off of feats proven in comics how come u dnt accept the fact of superman dying as somthing useable plus like ive said but it keeps getting ignored Vulcan could absorb and use green lanterns light its energy so he can manipulate it.
#37 Posted by Lunacyde (18632 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed...even with Phoenix i could see a team effort prevailing for the JLA. Remember Jean Grey Phoenix is not nearly as powerful as the actual Phoenix Force, and she is still susceptible to physical injury. With all the speed and power in the JLA I could see then taking out Jean before the Phoenix can do anyhting.

#38 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@MrDirector786 said:
"IF Phoenix is in this, then the X-men win. But without her they lose. Even with Avengers members they'd lose. I know you think Hulk would beat Superman because he gets stronger as he gets angrier, but you seem to be using that to say he's unbeatable when he's been beaten before. Someone can destroy Hulk BEFORE he gets that strong. Superman has heat vision that can burn so hot scientists can't measure it and can expand it over a large range. He can just vaporize every last molecule of the Hulk and it's over for him. Or, just blitz him and knock him out early on. Then the rest of the team can easily take out the X-men. Like I said, Superman can blitz more than half the team, Wonder Woman could too. Flash could steal everyone's speed, Green Lantern can take out most of them himself too. The only way I see the X-men winning is if they have Phoenix. "

u only used the abilities of the DC characters Hulk can take large amounts of damage(im not saying he cant be beaten i know he can) hes fallen from orbit onto land and he was fine hes survived a nuke on Skaar, superman was even hurt by that and as for the whole speedforce marvel characters dnt have speedforce he may be able to uses it on dc characters because they apply to the speedforce rules but marvel as far as i know dsnt. Once again Vulcan stops green lantern his powers are energy absorbotion and light is energy if the lantern energy  isnt energy then please correct me but light is energy.
#39 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lunacyde said:
"Agreed...even with Phoenix i could see a team effort prevailing for the JLA. Remember Jean Grey Phoenix is not nearly as powerful as the actual Phoenix Force, and she is still susceptible to physical injury. With all the speed and power in the JLA I could see then taking out Jean before the Phoenix can do anyhting. "

the phoenix force is protective of jean grey it will reincarnate her instantly if it has to then it culd put her back and Pheonix of the white crown is pretty close to pheonix full power as it can be with out it being just straight up pheonix force
#40 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
"Jean without tapping Phoenix can increase the powers of other mutants many times, so much so that Beast compares his upgrade to Thing levels, the Phoenix Force was an X-man, Jean tapping the Phoenix can now increase the power of the others to levels that can match and/or out-match JLA members, there are four magic users that bear the X two that have been Sorceror Supreme of Limbo, with two magic stopping blades, so Zatanna will have her hands full as well.  the playing field is now equal, but one team is telepathically linked aware of all sides of the battle field.  Xmen win "

on top of what u said everyone is including the avengers o now theres even more magic users ghost rider and Doctor strange have both been allied wwith the avengers or helped them as have almost every othr super hero
#41 Posted by An0m0ly (47 posts) - - Show Bio
@Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
"@Lunacyde said:
"Agreed...even with Phoenix i could see a team effort prevailing for the JLA. Remember Jean Grey Phoenix is not nearly as powerful as the actual Phoenix Force, and she is still susceptible to physical injury. With all the speed and power in the JLA I could see then taking out Jean before the Phoenix can do anyhting. "
Phoenix is only as vulnerable as it wants to be when it comes to Jean, nothing could destroy Dark Phoenix until she decided to commit suicide, before she was taken out by the planetary EMP she just came out the sun and rebuilt herself, before predicting her own death in order for HCT to happen and be erased to teach Jean a lesson, "DO YOUR PHOENIX WORK"!  Hurt the others and a radial burst from Phoenix is going on regardless of who can move when. "

yes the pheonix force makes jean pretty much the most powerful thing in the marvel universe second or third most powerful being
#42 Edited by yodagod (2285 posts) - - Show Bio

 

The speed-blitz theory is out because#1 noone ever just does it in comics cause its dumb, #2 if you go lightspeed in a gravity well you destroy every thing, #3 it's generally a bad idea to throw everything you have at an opponent without first testing that opponent's capabilities, #4 as soon as someone does, for example Wally acting without thinking as per his usual, when they touch someone like Loa and her mutation triggers automatically (as they often do) and he is immediately disintigrated the rest of the speedsters might think twice, and  finally #5 Phoenix and Vulcan are capable of light speed and far more.  Add to that Omega level mutants like Xavier, Kid Omega, Jean, Rachael, Magneto, Xorn, Joseph, Polaris, Scarlet Witch, Iceman, Gambit ( I presume since it's all generations of X-men its also them at their peak while they were on the team), Exodus (if you include alternate reality rosters), and of course Vulcan. Darwin could concievably evolve into a being of pure Kryptonite, or red sun energy in immediate response to a threat from the JLA.  Amanda Sefton and Illyana Rasputin may not be able to defeat Zatanna but they can prevent her from bothering anyone else until someone deals with her.  And of course there's the leadership.  Batman while a better tactician than Scott, doesn't inspire the trust or confidence that Scott does.  Add to that the fact that Scott can maintain continuous contact with his entire team and the X-men have the advantage there.  I'm sure there would be a great deal of PIS like Batman beating Colossus, or Wolverine somehow taking out Martian Manhunter, but in the end the only real threat I see are the Green Lanterns, and if Vulcan can manipulate their energy or Darwin evolves to be able to ignore the energy they produce or interrupt it they are in big trouble.  If not thenwe have a serious fight between the GL's and the Omegas.  If Vulcan, Darwin, Jean, Rachael, Magneto, Polaris, or Joseph can manipulate the Oa energy ( and any of them have at least the potential to do so) this is an easy X-men victory.  If not then a combined GL force of the caliber of the ones from the Justice League would be difficult if not impossible to beat. Though nine phoenixes at once Jean, Rachael, Emma, Kid Omega, and the Cuckoos could make even the most experienced Lantern team wince.

#43 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@yodagod said:
"

 

The speed-blitz theory is out because#1 noone ever just does it in comics cause its dumb, #2 if you go lightspeed in a gravity well you destroy every thing, #3 it's generally a bad idea to throw everything you have at an opponent without first testing that opponent's capabilities, #4 as soon as someone does, for example Wally acting without thinking as per his usual, when they touch someone like Loa and her mutation triggers automatically (as they often do) and he is immediately disintigrated the rest of the speedsters might think twice, and  finally #5 Phoenix and Vulcan are capable of light speed and far more.  Add to that Omega level mutants like Xavier, Kid Omega, Jean, Rachael, Magneto, Xorn, Joseph, Polaris, Scarlet Witch, Iceman, Gambit ( I presume since it's all generations of X-men its also them at their peak while they were on the team), Exodus (if you include alternate reality rosters), and of course Vulcan. Darwin could concievably evolve into a being of pure Kryptonite, or red sun energy in immediate response to a threat from the JLA.  Amanda Sefton and Illyana Rasputin may not be able to defeat Zatanna but they can prevent her from bothering anyone else until someone deals with her.  And of course there's the leadership.  Batman while a better tactician than Scott, doesn't inspire the trust or confidence that Scott does.  Add to that the fact that Scott can maintain continuous contact with his entire team and the X-men have the advantage there.  I'm sure there would be a great deal of PIS like Batman beating Colossus, or Wolverine somehow taking out Martian Manhunter, but in the end the only real threat I see are the Green Lanterns, and if Vulcan can manipulate their energy or Darwin evolves to be able to ignore the energy they produce or interrupt it they are in big trouble.  If not thenwe have a serious fight between the GL's and the Omegas.  If Vulcan, Darwin, Jean, Rachael, Magneto, Polaris, or Joseph can manipulate the Oa energy ( and any of them have at least the potential to do so) this is an easy X-men victory.  If not then a combined GL force of the caliber of the ones from the Justice League would be difficult if not impossible to beat. Though nine phoenixes at once Jean, Rachael, Emma, Kid Omega, and the Cuckoos could make even the most experienced Lantern team wince.

"
1. They do it plenty of times and it's a viable strategy.
2. Not in comics it doesn't. People break lightspeed on a daily basis.
3. Who's throwing everything? Even if all the blitzers fail by some unlikely event, there are still dozens of people in the back to take their place.
4. Even if this happens, The other blitzers would avoid her and move for the rest.
5. In linear flight? Not the same thing.
 
None of the Omega level (presuming they are omega level at all) could stand up to a couple of pissed of leaguers.
Amanda Sefton and Illyana would be wasted by the Phantom Stranger and Doctor freaking Fate. Seriously, why is everyone so hung up on Zatanna when JLA has magicians several classes above her. Good legs don't win battles (most of the time)
Logic fail. We're talking about a team which is famous for its cooperative abilitiy. Batman doesn't need to inspire confidence, he's earned their confidence time and time again. When he issues a command, they know better than to disobey.
Continious contact? Like what Manhunter does with the league in just about every battle?
There are a lot of people as or more powerful than Gls in JLA. Two Doctors Fate and Phantom Stranger for once, two flashes, two Firestorms, Captain Atom and six Superman level heroes among others. 
 
Phoenix force is the only chance X-Men have.
#44 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
" Dr Strange commented that Illyana, if her full potential is unlocked can not only traverse space and time but manipulate them as well on a large scale, the Phoenix boost will allow her to outrace any speedster. "
Logic fail. Just because you can manipulate space and time doesn't mean you have reaction time to counter a speedster.
#45 Edited by TruePwnge (2764 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambler said:
"

JLA, cause Zatanna can shut down the telepaths and Superman cant be stopped.

"
actually Xavier would be in her head in a fraction of a second and quicksilver could kick her in the face before she casts off any of her hocus pocus mumbo jumbo
 
Power houses and speed freaks like Superman and Wonder Woman beat almost any of the X-men but not Phoenix, she could probably blink most JLA away. Dr Fate at max power might give her a little bit of trouble, but only a little
#46 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
" @AtPhantom said:
" @Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
" Dr Strange commented that Illyana, if her full potential is unlocked can not only traverse space and time but manipulate them as well on a large scale, the Phoenix boost will allow her to outrace any speedster. "
Logic fail. Just because you can manipulate space and time doesn't mean you have reaction time to counter a speedster. "
So how does Zoom do it? "
Zoom's powers are always on. Illyana's aren't. She needs to think to activate and Zoom doesn't. He's always sped up.
#47 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
" @AtPhantom said:
" @Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
" Dr Strange commented that Illyana, if her full potential is unlocked can not only traverse space and time but manipulate them as well on a large scale, the Phoenix boost will allow her to outrace any speedster. "
Logic fail. Just because you can manipulate space and time doesn't mean you have reaction time to counter a speedster. "
So how does Zoom do it? "
Personal time manipulation.
Moderator
#48 Posted by yodagod (2285 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom: 
 #3 I mean you don't go runnung willy nilly straight at an opponent unless you know it isn't dangerous to do so.   
#4 there are multiple characters with if not the exact ability similar ones.  If there were a universal speed blitz it would make for a lot of dead speedsters.
 
I forgot about the Dr.s Fate.  That changes things a bit, though I still think it ultimately comes down to nine Phoenixes against the Dr Fates and GLs. 
 
I disagree that the Flashes, Firestorms, or Supers are above the GL's and  I think Captain Atom is about even.  The real question is still whether or not the Marvels can manipulate the unique Oa energy and until there's a crossover with these sort of characters we won't know.  Even without it you have reality manip from Wanda and Universe level destructive power from the Phoenix represented here by nine hosts. 
#49 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
@yodagod said:
" @AtPhantom:  #3 I mean you don't go runnung willy nilly straight at an opponent unless you know it isn't dangerous to do so.   "
Why not? They have been doing it for some time now, and they've and they're still okay. The potential prize outscales the dangers. Besides, what else are the flashes going to do?

"#4 there are multiple characters with if not the exact ability similar ones.  If there were a universal speed blitz it would make for a lot of dead speedsters"
So they'll incinerate them with energy blasts... Same thing, and still faster than they can react.

"I disagree that the Flashes, Firestorms, or Supers are above the GL's and  I think Captain Atom is about even.   "
This is why I put as or more powerful.

"The real question is still whether or not the Marvels can manipulate the unique Oa energy and until there's a crossover with these sort of characters we won't know.  Even without it you have reality manip from Wanda and Universe level destructive power from the Phoenix represented here by nine hosts.  "
Correct me if I;m wrong, but when has Wanda been a part of X-Men?
#50 Posted by TruePwnge (2764 posts) - - Show Bio
@AtPhantom said:
"
"The real question is still whether or not the Marvels can manipulate the unique Oa energy and until there's a crossover with these sort of characters we won't know.  Even without it you have reality manip from Wanda and Universe level destructive power from the Phoenix represented here by nine hosts.  "
Correct me if I;m wrong, but when has Wanda been a part of X-Men? "
I don't think she has only in alternative realities, after Brotherhood Wanada has gone against her fathers wishes and mostly worked with the humans (Avengers or West Coast Avengers)
 
She's not an Xman IMO