X-men vs Heroes

@AllStarSuperman said:

@torzone said:

@AllStarSuperman said:

@torzone said:

@AllStarSuperman said:

@torzon said

@AllStarSuperman said:

@valencourt: @torzone: @BMEZY:

read the op again if have have to. maya can control her powers, so she's be able to gun for jean fast. matt could hold off charles alone. and sylar and peter with all powers and copying powers become insanely powerful and take this. think of it this way if peter, sylar, and matt, had telepathy they'd be enough to kill jean and or charles. plus theres ando powerboosting people, yes he could be taken out but im sure hiro would be watching out for him. and all ando really has to boost are matt, maya, and maybe peter or sylar.

Jean can vaporize an object or person in a mere second, faster than Maya could even attack her. Jean, Storm, Magneto, take this battle- there is no real argument, honestly. Jean would kill (like she did in X-men: The Last Stand, as seen in the link above.) them all. Please watch and understand that the moment Dark Phoenix was attacked she stopped the bullets in midair, meaning once she feels threatened her powers become instantly active. Later she displayed the ability to atomize (rip apart on a molecular level.) everything in her vicinity. Prof. X was able to shut down the minds of other instantaneously rendering them immovable. Magneto, with almost none or little stress, showed that he could rip apart on both ends and levitate an entire bridge full of humans,mutants, and cars, across the water. Storm could simultaneously create multiple tornadoes while flying a jet and even summon a large flood.A pathetic "power boost" will not allow Slayar or any Hero to outclass Jean. Her powers require no concentration just make her mad and it's over. Prof. X would murder Matt and...DUDE Magneto wears a helmet that is entirely immune to psychic attacks so think of it like this: Matt hurts Prof. X (actually can't happen) and Magneto tears the iron from his blood. Slayar tries to copy Jean's power and he, Ando, Maya and, every other hero gets rips to bits before they could even attack...Battle over! NO MORE HEROES! Underestimating Phoenix is the downfall of this battle no matter how you put it her powers work within a second no one in the Heroes TV show can stop her. Jean would rip Slayar apart as he copies her powers (if possible). The range and the fact that she needs no concentration, no time to think, no real defense since she can't be touched, is what makes her key...

Notice how thats a deleted scene there for its not a feat

Dumbest thing I ever heard. Jean accomplished these feats throughout the movie regardless if it's deleted she sill did it- even in the actually movie. I am just going to assume that you have never seen X-men: The Last Stand. The feats that I mentioned were in the movie (not deleted scenes either), Jean atomizing characters instantly, and needing no concentration to do so. You clearly failed to prove any point with that that meaningless statement. What you did was make a Battle Form and began to argue one-sided, (biased) that the Heroes would win. However, you honestly never mentioned a single feat or promoted any actually facts to prove how Heroes could win. Before you try to argue with someone be able to prove a point and, explain how your hero is exactly going to win. You're nothing more than a fanboy. This battle was seemingly fair until you added a Phoenix powered Jean...X-men stomps rather you disagree or not. So you best go about your way and, have a nice day.

"All hail Dark Phoenix,"

i created this tread, its not biased, just about everyone lese here is. just cuase x-men have a bigger fan base has no effect on who would win. and yes i seen the x men movies why would i make this thread if i havent? i listed ways heroes can win just fine, but your only comeback is that jean can take then out before they do whatever.

Uhm she would, you're ignoring the fact that she killed nearly everyone on Alcatraz her solo says it all. You're "list" of how the Heroes would win is flawed, duh. I counter attacked the entire list. No one comes in Jean's range, no one touches her. The X-men fanbase has nothing to do with them winning, the Heroes lose, sorry. Every X-men you allowed to fight in this battle has displayed feats above and beyond the ones shown in Heroes. Like you're not going to win the Heroes lost the moment the battle began, the moment they walked on the battlefield Phoenix unlocks and releases her powerful molecular telekinesis and omega-level telepathic rage upon them. Storm takes to the skies and sends them all flying across town with her tornadoes. Magento rips the iron from the blood and crushes them all with every metallic based alloyed in sight. Prof. X could shutdown their minds leaving them motionless. X-men powers work instantly...they would destroy them. And I don't see why you continue to argue with these pitiful comebacks...

so your saying this is spite?

Necessarily, yes. Like I stated once before you adding Jean was the downfall of this Battle. Without the Phoenix she wouldn't be much of a threat. The battle would fair, mostly.

@torzone: so should i let time minipulation be aloud?

send Peter to solo (if he doesn't act like an idiot as in the series). No one can counter why Peter can't simply copy the powers of who ever on the XMen team

Iceman (X3) Three Icemen take this, Just kidding I know you ment the movie. X-men take this, too many heavy hitters on their team

@theONEtaichou: Peter ended up losing the ability to copy multiple powers by the end of the series and could only hold one at a time. But for aguments' sake, even if he was still capable of copying multiple powers at once, would he be able to do so from such a large distance away as 500 feet? He's never shown the ability to do this in the series. People have had to of been in close range with him for him to copy their powers, IIRC. Also, would he have enough time to absorb each X-Men's powers before he's become atomised by Jean, turned into a vegetable by Charles, has his iron ripped from his body by Magneto, etc? I highly doubt it, considering their attacks can reach the range of beyond 500 feet.

I don't see them countering Charles Xavier. His level of telepathy trumps anything that has been displayed in Heroes. He could easily just force them all to be frozen in place and mind wipe them.

@valencourt said:

@theONEtaichou: Peter ended up losing the ability to copy multiple powers by the end of the series and could only hold one at a time. But for aguments' sake, even if he was still capable of copying multiple powers at once, would he be able to do so from such a large distance away as 500 feet? He's never shown the ability to do this in the series. People have had to of been in close range with him for him to copy their powers, IIRC. Also, would he have enough time to absorb each X-Men's powers before he's become atomised by Jean, turned into a vegetable by Charles, has his iron ripped from his body by Magneto, etc? I highly doubt it, considering their attacks can reach the range of beyond 500 feet.

OP says Peter has all his powers except time stop. Also Peter didn't work by distance but by who did what in his vicinity. I assume if Jean's powers can reach him he can instantly attack back as he did to Sylar. I never saw distance being a problem (just CIS) for Peter. And his copying powers were instinctive, not that he had to concentrate to copy someones powers (Claire Bennet, Ted Sprague). So still I see no argument why Peter cannot solo... if Jean attacks first he attacks back with her attack. Combined with his other powers he decimates the X Men...

When did Charles display mindwiping in the XMU? Will Mystique be pumping the Heroes cast full of iron on or before the battle so Magneto can rip it out?

@OmgOmgWtfWtf said:

I don't see them countering Charles Xavier. His level of telepathy trumps anything that has been displayed in Heroes. He could easily just force them all to be frozen in place and mind wipe them.

X also didn't display any feat like Matt's father trapping people in an illusion and since since Matt can be boosted here X can be taken (in fact I would go so far to say beyond the time freeze everything that Charles did in the trilogy pales in comparison to Maury Parkman). BTW I cannot remember correctly, where did X mind wipe someone in the movies? Freezing yes, mind wipe?

@theONEtaichou: He mind wiped Moira at the end of First Class. When the CIA asked what has happened to her she said she couldn't remember anything.

X-Men. Jean could atomize them all and Storm had some pretty strong feats, too. She could summon some hurricans and kill them all

Here's an example of what I mean, if you go at 2:08. A similar attack could kill most of the Heroes team.

@AllStarSuperman said:

@afueikawa said:

Heroes wins via Time Travel, since time stop is the only one which is not allowed (by OP).

Hiro or Peter takes their entire team to the past and kills the X-men before they were even born.

Sylar for brain buffet.

that works... but i really did mean know time anything

You should've specified that before in the OP, you only said TIME STOP.

So I have to stick with my argument, xmen gets a curbstomp. :-P

@afueikawa said:

@AllStarSuperman said:

@afueikawa said:

Heroes wins via Time Travel, since time stop is the only one which is not allowed (by OP).

Hiro or Peter takes their entire team to the past and kills the X-men before they were even born.

Sylar for brain buffet.

that works... but i really did mean know time anything

You should've specified that before in the OP, you only said TIME STOP.

So I have to stick with my argument, xmen gets a curbstomp. :-P

Ok

Ando's super charging is being underestimated. Daphne a super-sonic was supercharged to light speed,thus traveling back in time....

@X_insignia1 said:

Ando's super charging is being underestimated. Daphne a super-sonic was supercharged to light speed,thus traveling back in time....

And kills all x-men way back being in the sack. lol

X-Men only needs Phoenix (main offense/main defense), Magneto (secondary offense) Storm (airborne - secondary offense), and Professor X (anchor) to devestate this team of heroes.

could hiro slow down time? I can't remember, I gave up on heroes after all the stupid crap

You're giving Peter every power he's ever absorbed(sans time stopping)? That means he has the Haitian's ability to turn off powers. That means he has super speed with a "seconds feel like hours" reaction time. That means he has Water Mimicry which means his body cannot be destroyed. That means he has Death Touch which means he can kill anyone with a single touch. Body Insertion which means if he had a problem with anyone in particular he could put them in someone else's body where their powers would not work. As a matter of fact, if Peter has all of his powers that means he has every power of everyone at least on his team(can he absorb powers from the X-Men too?). That means he has Maya's ability.

Any prep time? Because Claire gives everyone a shot of her blood before the battle to heal from any wound.

Team Heroes takes this battle. Peter with every ability he's ever absorbed + Maya's ability makes it unfair to Team X-Men. He instantly gets Maya's ability, zips into the middle of the X-Men and kills everyone. If Phoenix doesn't go down then he either touches her and kills her with Death Touch, Inserts her body into someone else's with Body Insertion, or phases her brain out of her head with Phasing.

Or he just goes nuclear http://heroeswiki.com/images/f/fc/3x04_costaverde.jpg

Also if Peter so desires, he could let Sylar mimic all of his abilities and then you essentially have two Peter's on the battlefield.

@Masone: Read through the thread...all of these points were countered already

@BMEZY said:

@Masone: Read through the thread...all of these points were countered already

Not really he has a point peter would instantly get all the powers and even Phoenix couldn't stop him

Umm no they weren't. No one mentioned Body Insertion or the fact that Peter would have Maya's ability, an impenetrable/indestructible body and Death Touch. He also has the option of letting Sylar mimic ALL of his abilities so you'd have two of them on the field together. I read through the whole thread and didn't see anyone mention these points.

Peter with super speed has a ridiculous reaction time. That means the guy that can do the most damage also has the speed advantage over EVERYONE in the battle. With supercharge he can go faster than light speed. He doesn't even need Ando to super charge him because he'd have Ando's ability which means he can supercharge himself.

Peter can solo by just zipping into the middle of the X-Men and killing all of them with either Death Touch, Phasing, Poisoning or Body Insertion. He could do all that before they could even blink.

If Peter didn't want all the glory for himself, he could let Sylar mimic all of his abilities and they could do that together. One by one. What is Xavier going to do when Peter super speeds in front of him and phases out his heart? What is Phoenix going to do when Sylar zips in front of her and puts her into the body a newborn baby?

@Masone: Does he move faster than a thought?? Coz Xavier doesn't need to blink, he has just to think and destroy his mind or paralize all the heroes team.

Telepaths in Heroes have a specific defense against other telepaths, so Xavier wouldn't be able to do anything to Peter since he's a telepath himself. Not only does Peter have Intuitive Aptitude(which means his telepathy is already at its height), he also has Mental Manipulation(the Haitian's ability), which means that telepathy wouldn't even work on him to begin with.

None of the Heroes were Xavier or Jean level telepaths. The Heroes lose here.

@Veitha said:

@Masone: Does he move faster than a thought?? Coz Xavier doesn't need to blink, he has just to think and destroy his mind or paralize all the heroes team.

If he has all powers he'd copy Daphne and be at least light speed

@Masone said:

Umm no they weren't. No one mentioned Body Insertion or the fact that Peter would have Maya's ability, an impenetrable/indestructible body and Death Touch. He also has the option of letting Sylar mimic ALL of his abilities so you'd have two of them on the field together. I read through the whole thread and didn't see anyone mention these points.

Peter with super speed has a ridiculous reaction time. That means the guy that can do the most damage also has the speed advantage over EVERYONE in the battle. With supercharge he can go faster than light speed. He doesn't even need Ando to super charge him because he'd have Ando's ability which means he can supercharge himself.

Peter can solo by just zipping into the middle of the X-Men and killing all of them with either Death Touch, Phasing, Poisoning or Body Insertion. He could do all that before they could even blink.

If Peter didn't want all the glory for himself, he could let Sylar mimic all of his abilities and they could do that together. One by one. What is Xavier going to do when Peter super speeds in front of him and phases out his heart? What is Phoenix going to do when Sylar zips in front of her and puts her into the body a newborn baby?

Phoenix and Professor Xavier can solo the entire heroes team.

"No one mentioned Body Insertion or the fact that Peter would have Maya's ability, an impenetrable/indestructible body and Death Touch"

Body Insertion is irrelevant..Neither Peter or Sylar can get close enough to do anything substantial before they're ripped apart. Maya's ability is not instant. It takes time for the poison to fully take affect (a few seconds atleast) and Maya's brother, along with Sylar and Matt were shown to be able to resist this power for a long duration of time.Phoenix has an offensive that is much more devestating and executes the job in less than a conscious thought). Not to mention that one cannot "control this ability" you Peter would not be able to selectively poison his oponent, everyone within the vicinity will eventually be poisoned (about 7-8 seconds) including HIS team. It's illogical for him to use a ability that cannot be consciously controlled.

"Peter with super speed has ridiculous reaction time. That means the guy that can do the mos tdamage also has the speed advantage over EVERYONE in the battle. With supercharge he can go faster than light speed. He doesn't even need Ando to super charge him because he'd have Ando's ability which he can supercharge himself"

You would have a point here if it weren't for the fact that Phoenix also has auto-shields. Her subconscious projects force fields of any impending danger even if she's not aware of it. This requires No Thought. No Concentration. Peter would be running into a "brick wall" and effectively leaving himself open to be atomized at a second's notice.

If Peter didn't want all the glory for himself, he could let Sylar mimic all of his abilities and they could do that together. One by one. What is Xavier going to do when Peter super speeds in front of him and phases out his heart? What is Phoenix going to do when Sylar zips in front of her and puts her into the body a newborn baby?

Keep in mind that the combined might of Jean's and Charles Xavier's telepathy can devestate this entire team (they are individually more powerful than Matt w/more control and far better feats). They can both anull and negate powers for an extended amount of time, cast power illusions and "freeze" everyone one in place by shutting down their minds, instantly and they will be safe behind Phoenix's force field and can channel into Kitty's phrasing powers via telepathy rendering them PHYSICALLY untouchable.

Body Insertion is irrelevant..Neither Peter or Sylar can get close enough to do anything substantial before they're ripped apart. Maya's ability is not instant. It takes time for the poison to fully take affect (a few seconds atleast) and Maya's brother, along with Sylar and Matt were shown to be able to resist this power for a long duration of time.Phoenix has an offensive that is much more devestating and executes the job in less than a conscious thought). Not to mention that one cannot "control this ability" you Peter would not be able to selectively poison his oponent, everyone within the vicinity will eventually be poisoned (about 7-8 seconds) including HIS team. It's illogical for him to use a ability that cannot be consciously controlled.

Peter is zipping into the middle of the X-Men team to initiate the attack. His team is 500 feet back which means they are not within distance of the poisoning. The ability can most certainly be controlled. Maya has demonstrated control on multiple occasions, Arthur has demonstrated control and Peter and Sylar have IA which means they would have total control over it.

How is he going to get ripped apart when he's intangible? No reason why he couldn't use body insertion while intangible.

You would have a point here if it weren't for the fact that Phoenix also has auto-shields. Her subconscious projects force fields of any impending danger even if she's not aware of it. This requires No Thought. No Concentration. Peter would be running into a "brick wall" and effectively leaving himself open to be atomized at a second's notice.

Peter has intangibility, he's not running into anything...

He also has teleportation. Again, not running into anything...

Keep in mind that the combined might of Jean's and Charles Xavier's telepathy can devestate this entire team (they are individually more powerful than Matt w/more control and far better feats). They can both anull and negate powers for an extended amount of time, cast power illusions and "freeze" everyone one in place by shutting down their minds, instantly and they will be safe behind Phoenix's force field and can channel into Kitty's phrasing powers via telepathy rendering them PHYSICALLY untouchable.

Charles Xavier is irrelevant since Peter is traveling at FTL speeds. Peter has Mental Manipulation and Telepathy, he's not going to get rendered anything by Charles. he has specific defenses for any mental attack. MM negates powers, telepathy negates telepathic attacks. If you're going to take down Peter, it's not going to be through his mind.

I haven't even mentioned the fact that Peter's Haitian Ability would shut down everyone's powers(the ability works subconsciously and works without thought).

Time travel is also not out of the equation. Peter traveling at FTL speeds can travel in the past and kill the whole team. Or he can just use his time travelling power lol.

XMEN FTW

Heroes suck except Hiro.

@AllStarSuperman said:

@Veitha said:

@Masone: Does he move faster than a thought?? Coz Xavier doesn't need to blink, he has just to think and destroy his mind or paralize all the heroes team.

If he has all powers he'd copy Daphne and be at least light speed

Really, lightspeed?? I didn't know that... any proof of him moving at that speed??

@Veitha said:

@AllStarSuperman said:

@Veitha said:

@Masone: Does he move faster than a thought?? Coz Xavier doesn't need to blink, he has just to think and destroy his mind or paralize all the heroes team.

If he has all powers he'd copy Daphne and be at least light speed

Really, lightspeed?? I didn't know that... any proof of him moving at that speed??

Well Daphne runs aournd the world in seconds and with a power boost she can time travel. Time travel =light speed+ I think.

Bump

Honestly? I would say Heroes win. I mean... If you added the Hatian in the mix. He would be able to stop a fair few of the X-Men from using their powers. Peter would be able to absorb powers and Matt could do his best to hold off Professor X. Hiro could easily stop time and kill them all, but that would make him an easy target. Overall... This is a very close one.

I like and I used to watch Heroes. However, I have to go with the X-Men. Heroes is kinda crappy now, they're not even in the same level as the X-Men. Phoenix can just disintegrate heroes in a second and Haitian can't block Phoenix, the Phoenix Force is a COSMIC ENTITY not a split personality of Jean's. Also, none of any character in Heroes can defeat Galactus while Jean + the Phoenix Force can EASILY DEFEAT Galactus.

I kinda wished the OP uses the comic version because in the comic version, Heroes wouldn't last a second.

@xlgxflare: the Haitian only negates powers from evolved humans, not mutants so logically it won't work on the X-Men.

@rhysdurden: They understand that the Phoenix is a cosmic entity in the comics, but the convo was about movie Jean, which for the time being is a mere split personality. (Dark Phoenix 2018 hype to retcon that detail!!!) These are the cinematic versions as the op states specifically.

Similarities are there, but the idea of enhanced humans born is not exclusive to the X-Men. There are many franchises that use meta-humans born with extraordinary powers without outside influence. Examples;

D.C.: Black Canary is one case of someone born a metagene(DC's equivalent to the X-Gene. I'd have to do more research to see if there are more examples)

Anime: My Hero Academia, RWBY

Live-Action: Heroes, The Tomorrow People, Mighty Med

@pyrofn: yeah I know BC was born with her powers. I just hate why people only seemingly compare the film versions of the X-Men vs Heroes. I mean it's not fair, if it's the comic X-Men, heroes stands absolutely no chance. And I know that heroes fans are afraid of comic X-Men.

Too bad this thread is so old though. Would've liked to reply some rebuttals. Though I don't think people would've appreciated this.

I'm backing the X-Men based on Jean. Peter could copy her powers, but there is no knowing how he'd handle her kind of power. There is no reason to believe he'd use it as expertly as she would.

Hiro Nakamura could teleport, but Jean can halt teleporters via telekinesis as she had done to Nightcrawler.

Maya is interestingly. I don't doubt that she could kill Jean, but how long does it take for her power to manifest? Is it merely single target or AoE? Can she control where it goes? And I remember seeing a comment from someone who said that's Jean wouldn't immediately go for Maya. It should be noted Jeans telepathy would correct that fallacy since she will be able to know who exactly everyone is via telepathy and what they could do. Plus, Dark Phoenix is the personality Non-discriminatory to who anybody. She killed both mutants and human soldiers in X3, sonits more likely that Jean would kill her team alongside the Heroes of anything is sure.

@rhysdurden: Lol, you make the comic X-Men sound like a horror franchise. Now I can imagine them hiding Kitty Pryde who phases through the wall behind them and going, "BOO!!!"

@pyrofn: I agree. Jean can just neutralise Maya's powers and mindrape Hiro, preventing him from using his powers. Pretty sure Sylar would lose to Magneto, Tracy Strauss would lose to Iceman, Matt Parkman would get mindraped by Professor X, Claire Bennet got decapitated by Logan, etc. Also, Hiro has failed using his powers once in season 3 episode "Our Father" where Arthur Petrelli uses telekinesis to prevent Hiro from time travelling, so Jean just could do the same thing.

@pyrofn: Also, comic X-Men got omegas like Psylocke, Iceman, Rachel Summers, Nate Grey, Quentin Quire, Legion, etc. and they still got Cable, Emma Frost, Gambit, etc. and people seemed to forgot that Jean herself is an omega-level mutant. This is all why Heroes fans are afraid of comic X-Men, because comic X-Men are just too much for Heroes to handle. And also, if the morals are off, Kitty Pryde would play a huge role because a morals off Kitty Pryde is extremely dangerous (you know what she did to Lady Deathstrike in Death of Wolverine).