X-men vs Fantastic Four

fantastic 4 due to sue..

The X-Men, Jean Grey shutsdown all the Fantastic Four minds, end fight.

Im picking the FF.

@Neo_Prime666 said:

The X-Men, Jean Grey shutsdown all the Fantastic Four minds, end fight.

Yeah, I don't see how they can avoid telepathic intrusion, unless Sue can shield them against it somehow (I don't think she is capable of doing that). Especially with Jean's level of telepathy.

@Neo_Prime666 said:

The X-Men, Jean Grey shutsdown all the Fantastic Four minds, end fight.

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Neo_Prime666 said:

The X-Men, Jean Grey shutsdown all the Fantastic Four minds, end fight.

Yeah, I don't see how they can avoid telepathic intrusion, unless Sue can shield them against it somehow (I don't think she is capable of doing that). Especially with Jean's level of telepathy.

@BMEZY said:

emma frost's tp has gotten through sue's TP before... Drake is superior to Johnny without the cosmic rod...reed and thing are non-factors.. I say X-Men win

All these plus, Cables telepathy with the TOV killing him got through too.

@Invisible_Witch said:

I'm going with the F4,also Sue stopped Psi-lord who is much stronger than Jean.. Sue isn't get TP by anyone

Since then she has, and where does this show he is not using telepathy while her shield is up? Is there more? because you can see her invisible barrier when it's up before he drops his defenses and then you can't see it when he does. We the readers usually know when her shield is up, and it was down before she made the comment, he mentions he can read her thoughts easy, but he doesn't say how easy he could read her mind now that her shield is down. I'm under the impression that he didn't use telepathy until he said he did, so how is this proof that his telepathy can't get through her shields, unless her tries and fails in the panels before, or says he needed it down to do so in that panels after. Is there more? Are the yellow blasts that she is blocking telepathic blasts? If so, why the color change?

@JediXMan said:

I'm going with the X-Men.

X men, Jean Grey Blasts the crap out of everyone and Iceman is seriously under rated he could easily take the human torch

@BMEZY: I thought the same but I am not sure if this is canon or not.

Leaning toward the X-men for the majority.

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@BMEZY: I thought the same but I am not sure if this is canon or not.

Leaning toward the X-men for the majority.

I don't think it is either, but what Cable did was. That scan with Psi-Lord is not proof of telepathy not working through the shields, because he didn't use telepathy except for reading her mind and knowing she was exhausted from shielding from physical attacks, while her shields were already down. I guess people are assuming since he doesn't mention reading her mind until they are down that is evidence, even though there is nothing to suggest he wasn't reading it the whole time and just waited for them to go down to attack.

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

@Charmix said:

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

it's even more reasonable to say he wasn't using telepathy until he actually did, she wasn't covered in a field she was making disc sized ones in front of her, doesn't make sense. I was assuming the different color is to illustrate the difference between a tk attack and a tp attack. Like I asked before, is there more? panel before? panel after? I'm not gonna assume he is using telepathy just to build a case that her shields block it, with canon evidence (Cable) contrary to her being able to do so in later Marvel issues.

Meh, lets just say there is a 50/50 chance telepathy does work, based on the two instances involving her shield and tp. I think Jean has the juice, since it's been stated her focused tp can get through any shield.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Charmix said:

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

it's even more reasonable to say he wasn't using telepathy until he actually did. I was assuming the different color is to illustrate the difference between a tk attack and a tp attack. Like I asked before, is there more? panel before? panel after?

For panel wise thats the only I've seen for proof that Sue can block telepathy, no one has posted a before and after panel. If so why didn't he just neutralize her from the beginning when her shields were up. Since they were, it is proof that he needed them to be down in order to assault her mind, which is what others think as well. She's already blocked telekinesis, I wouldn't be surprise if she's down the same for telepathy, which the scan shows.

@Charmix said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Charmix said:

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

it's even more reasonable to say he wasn't using telepathy until he actually did. I was assuming the different color is to illustrate the difference between a tk attack and a tp attack. Like I asked before, is there more? panel before? panel after?

For panel wise thats the only I've seen for proof that Sue can block telepathy, no one has posted a before and after panel. If so why didn't he just neutralize her from the beginning when her shields were up. Since they were, it is proof that he needed them to be down in order to assault her mind, which is what others think as well. She's already blocked telekinesis, I wouldn't be surprise if she's down the same for telepathy, which the scan shows.

I'm just saying that a shield that is protecting your mind from telepathy could not be effective if there are holes in it, she is not fully shielding herself only projecting a field in front, this should not block the reading of a persons mind from what we know about telepathy, this would make me believe that he could read it before, and him not just attacking with tp is the WTF moment.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Charmix said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Charmix said:

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

it's even more reasonable to say he wasn't using telepathy until he actually did. I was assuming the different color is to illustrate the difference between a tk attack and a tp attack. Like I asked before, is there more? panel before? panel after?

For panel wise thats the only I've seen for proof that Sue can block telepathy, no one has posted a before and after panel. If so why didn't he just neutralize her from the beginning when her shields were up. Since they were, it is proof that he needed them to be down in order to assault her mind, which is what others think as well. She's already blocked telekinesis, I wouldn't be surprise if she's down the same for telepathy, which the scan shows.

I'm just saying that a shield that is protecting your mind from telepathy could not be effective if there are holes in it, she is not fully shielding herself only projecting a field in front, this should not block the reading of a persons mind from what we know about telepathy, this would make me believe that he could read it before, and him not just attacking with tp is the WTF moment.

I see where your at. Not a full shield but instead in the scan she was using a simple barrier as oppose to the standard dome. Ahh, I see. :)

yes, definitively a wtf moment.

Xmen.

I think Colosus and Thing is basically a stalemate.

Cyclops vs. Reed, Reed loses.

Jean vs Sue, Jean wins.

Bobby Vs Johnny could go either way, but morals on Bobby has a huge advantage.

Either way Telepathy is a huge factor here, Jean should be able to win this alone due to telepathy.

@SexualLobster said:

Xmen.

I think Colosus and Thing is basically a stalemate.

Cyclops vs. Reed, Reed loses.

Jean vs Sue, Jean wins.

Bobby Vs Johnny could go either way, but morals on Bobby has a huge advantage.

Either way Telepathy is a huge factor here, Jean should be able to win this alone due to telepathy.

I disagree with this ...

colossus vs. thing ... I think colossus has a slight edge here but it is negligible.

Cyclops vs. reed ... I think reed has this unless cyclops gets a good shot off. I am a supporter of cyclops being under rated I just think reed due to location etc could find a way to strategically overwhelm cylcops. Yes I know cyclops is a great strategist I just think reed is better.

jean vs sue ... I honestly have no idea who wins here is based on the writer.

bobby vs johnny ... bobby should win this IMO ...

As mentioned eariler jean and sue are key problems here ... but I don't think reed or cyclops should be counted out as key factors as each of them could find a way to win or nullify / take out someone.

I'm voting x-men due to cyclops and bobby .. not jean. I know I said reed was a better strategist but cyclops can take out or harm people from long range and help pull the battle in their favor regardless of the jean sue outcome.

FF due to Jean.

@cattlebattle:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/thing-vs-colossus/17161/?page=4

my thoughts on the topic ... and others responses.

No use of me repeating same thing here.

@cattlebattle said:

@sandiego008 said:

@SexualLobster said:

colossus vs. thing ... I think colossus has a slight edge here but it is negligible.

I just can't get over this...how in the world does Colossus have a slight edge over Thing?

Expreience.. everything else is pretty even, and they're both so durable I don't see one taking out the other though, that's why I said stalemate.

@sandiego008 said:

@SexualLobster said:

Xmen.

I think Colosus and Thing is basically a stalemate.

Cyclops vs. Reed, Reed loses.

Jean vs Sue, Jean wins.

Bobby Vs Johnny could go either way, but morals on Bobby has a huge advantage.

Either way Telepathy is a huge factor here, Jean should be able to win this alone due to telepathy.

I disagree with this ...

colossus vs. thing ... I think colossus has a slight edge here but it is negligible.

Cyclops vs. reed ... I think reed has this unless cyclops gets a good shot off. I am a supporter of cyclops being under rated I just think reed due to location etc could find a way to strategically overwhelm cylcops. Yes I know cyclops is a great strategist I just think reed is better.

jean vs sue ... I honestly have no idea who wins here is based on the writer.

bobby vs johnny ... bobby should win this IMO ...

As mentioned eariler jean and sue are key problems here ... but I don't think reed or cyclops should be counted out as key factors as each of them could find a way to win or nullify / take out someone.

I'm voting x-men due to cyclops and bobby .. not jean. I know I said reed was a better strategist but cyclops can take out or harm people from long range and help pull the battle in their favor regardless of the jean sue outcome.

I can say I guess Colossus does have a very slight edge here, but not enough to make a difference IMO, both are too durable to really do much.

What is Reed really going to do before cyclops shoots him? They do not have prep.

What could Sue do to stop jean? Jean says 'comatose' and the fight ends.

Agreed, Johnny's powers would kill Bobby, and morals on he wouldn't use them to their extent.

What can reed do without prep to overcome telepathy? That's why I say Jean solos, Sue's forcefields can't stop it either, so Jean is basically an automatic win here.

@mgrman5 said:

Here is a scan I found that gives a hint to if Invisible Woman can stop TP with her powers, now I am pretty sure this scan is pretty much invalid since Jean has gotten much more powerful since their first encounter but I thought I would just put it up for some feats to Invisible Woman shield.

Jean didn't have tp then, that was tk.

I think this is a pretty even matchup. I think X-Men take this. Invisible Woman's shields are going to be a pretty big issue, but Jean Grey's TP might be able to beat that out. Ice Man will wreak havoc for torch, and fantastic (fantastic especially). Colossus can take Thing, though Thing could take Colossus, it's a tossup between these two. And Cyclops has taken down Sentinels with his optic blasts, I think he'll put the team over the edge for a win. I say X-Men 7/10

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@mgrman5 said:

@LordOfAllHumans: But Jean said "A woman. That proves you're all Lang's robots. If you were human, my telepathic abilites would have sensed you sneaking up on me." Did she lose it in that instance and did not know she had or is it something else.

As mentioned she was in suspended animation, she had no memories (they were in Maddie) of anything after her fighting robots. She believes they must be robots because, last time she checked she was a telepath, and if she can't sense you, you're a robot. Turns out they weren't registering because she had no telepathy, and just wasn't aware of it.

@mgrman5 said:

@LordOfAllHumans: Oh ok that clears things up nicely must mean that the Invisible Woman vs Jean fight is not so clear cut as is seems, seeing as Jean in that picture did not have TP at the time, Invisible Woman may not be able to block it, thank you, how do you know that she didn't have TP for sure anyway was their a mention of it in an earlier instances; just wondering. Also do you think Jean's TK now could get through her shields since that was being blocked by Invisible Woman shields.

That was the earliest instance, this was her first appearance since Dark Phoenix committed suicide. Jean didn't have any telepathy during X-Factor, it was there but she couldn't access it. It's believed that Reed damaged her when attempted to wake her out of her coma. He used a machine that he later regrets using, because it could cause brain damage to somebody with mental powers. Jean wasn't back to being a tk/tp combo until after Psynapse attacked her on the astral plane, which reactivated her telepathy.

With a telekinetic attack I really don't know, although psychic it still acts like a physical force and Sues shield can take a beating. There is no concrete evidence that telepathy won't work. If for some reason it doesn't, Jean can quickly take out the other 3 and then they can gang up on Sue.