#1 Posted by mgrman5 (591 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by cattlebattle (13016 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say the Fantastic Four, I would like to her other peoples opinions though

#3 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

I would say the Fantastic Four, I would like to her other peoples opinions though
#4 Posted by mgrman5 (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: Do you mind being a bit more elaborate how would the FF win against the X-men, can I get one of your theories, please.

#5 Posted by EpitomeofCool (2779 posts) - - Show Bio

fantastic 4 due to sue..

#6 Posted by cattlebattle (13016 posts) - - Show Bio
@mgrman5 said:

@cattlebattle: Do you mind being a bit more elaborate how would the FF win against the X-men, can I get one of your theories, please.

The only one that would lose to their....err... counterpart is Reed Richards, Sue trumps Jean, Thing over Colossus and Johnny over Iceman...they would overwhelm Cyclops in the end
#7 Posted by Neo_Prime666 (81 posts) - - Show Bio

The X-Men, Jean Grey shutsdown all the Fantastic Four minds, end fight.

#8 Posted by jojjimbo (2472 posts) - - Show Bio

Im picking the FF.

#9 Posted by royale_with_cheese (747 posts) - - Show Bio

@Neo_Prime666 said:

The X-Men, Jean Grey shutsdown all the Fantastic Four minds, end fight.

Yeah, I don't see how they can avoid telepathic intrusion, unless Sue can shield them against it somehow (I don't think she is capable of doing that). Especially with Jean's level of telepathy.

#10 Posted by BMEZY (1215 posts) - - Show Bio

emma frost's tp has gotten through sue's TP before... Drake is superior to Johnny without the cosmic rod...reed and thing are non-factors.. I say X-Men win

#11 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@Neo_Prime666 said:

The X-Men, Jean Grey shutsdown all the Fantastic Four minds, end fight.

@royale_with_cheese said:

@Neo_Prime666 said:

The X-Men, Jean Grey shutsdown all the Fantastic Four minds, end fight.

Yeah, I don't see how they can avoid telepathic intrusion, unless Sue can shield them against it somehow (I don't think she is capable of doing that). Especially with Jean's level of telepathy.

@BMEZY said:

emma frost's tp has gotten through sue's TP before... Drake is superior to Johnny without the cosmic rod...reed and thing are non-factors.. I say X-Men win

All these plus, Cables telepathy with the TOV killing him got through too.

#12 Posted by BMEZY (1215 posts) - - Show Bio

This fight would go to the X Men a lot quicker if scott coordinated the team to have jean face the torch and iceman attack Sue (I don't think her shields have an answer for him).. Jean with snuff out Johnny's flames simultaneously using tk to deprive them of oxygen (she's skilled enough to do this) or psi blast his butt into oblivion :D

#13 Posted by JediXMan (30976 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with the X-Men.

Moderator
#14 Edited by Invisible_Witch (312 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with the F4,also Sue stopped Psi-lord who is much stronger than Jean..

#15 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@Invisible_Witch said:

I'm going with the F4,also Sue stopped Psi-lord who is much stronger than Jean.. Sue isn't get TP by anyone

Since then she has, and where does this show he is not using telepathy while her shield is up? Is there more? because you can see her invisible barrier when it's up before he drops his defenses and then you can't see it when he does. We the readers usually know when her shield is up, and it was down before she made the comment, he mentions he can read her thoughts easy, but he doesn't say how easy he could read her mind now that her shield is down. I'm under the impression that he didn't use telepathy until he said he did, so how is this proof that his telepathy can't get through her shields, unless her tries and fails in the panels before, or says he needed it down to do so in that panels after. Is there more? Are the yellow blasts that she is blocking telepathic blasts? If so, why the color change?

#16 Posted by Gremlin From Kremlin (2931 posts) - - Show Bio

@JediXMan said:

I'm going with the X-Men.
#17 Posted by Henciao (37 posts) - - Show Bio

X men, Jean Grey Blasts the crap out of everyone and Iceman is seriously under rated he could easily take the human torch

#18 Posted by BMEZY (1215 posts) - - Show Bio

@Invisible_Witch:

In this scan, Emma didn't seem to have a problem affecting all of the F4 members here.. and Jean Grey is a much more talented psi.. That aside, Scott can switch it up on the F4 by having Iceman go after Sue Storm (she's stands virtually no chance to him in current state) and The torch should not be a problem for jean :D

#19 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10660 posts) - - Show Bio

@BMEZY: I thought the same but I am not sure if this is canon or not.

Leaning toward the X-men for the majority.

#20 Posted by Roddy010 (5310 posts) - - Show Bio

X-men FTW....

#21 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@BMEZY: I thought the same but I am not sure if this is canon or not.

Leaning toward the X-men for the majority.

I don't think it is either, but what Cable did was. That scan with Psi-Lord is not proof of telepathy not working through the shields, because he didn't use telepathy except for reading her mind and knowing she was exhausted from shielding from physical attacks, while her shields were already down. I guess people are assuming since he doesn't mention reading her mind until they are down that is evidence, even though there is nothing to suggest he wasn't reading it the whole time and just waited for them to go down to attack.

#22 Posted by Charmix (11958 posts) - - Show Bio

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

#23 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charmix said:

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

it's even more reasonable to say he wasn't using telepathy until he actually did, she wasn't covered in a field she was making disc sized ones in front of her, doesn't make sense. I was assuming the different color is to illustrate the difference between a tk attack and a tp attack. Like I asked before, is there more? panel before? panel after? I'm not gonna assume he is using telepathy just to build a case that her shields block it, with canon evidence (Cable) contrary to her being able to do so in later Marvel issues.

Meh, lets just say there is a 50/50 chance telepathy does work, based on the two instances involving her shield and tp. I think Jean has the juice, since it's been stated her focused tp can get through any shield.

#24 Posted by Charmix (11958 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Charmix said:

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

it's even more reasonable to say he wasn't using telepathy until he actually did. I was assuming the different color is to illustrate the difference between a tk attack and a tp attack. Like I asked before, is there more? panel before? panel after?

For panel wise thats the only I've seen for proof that Sue can block telepathy, no one has posted a before and after panel. If so why didn't he just neutralize her from the beginning when her shields were up. Since they were, it is proof that he needed them to be down in order to assault her mind, which is what others think as well. She's already blocked telekinesis, I wouldn't be surprise if she's down the same for telepathy, which the scan shows.

#25 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charmix said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Charmix said:

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

it's even more reasonable to say he wasn't using telepathy until he actually did. I was assuming the different color is to illustrate the difference between a tk attack and a tp attack. Like I asked before, is there more? panel before? panel after?

For panel wise thats the only I've seen for proof that Sue can block telepathy, no one has posted a before and after panel. If so why didn't he just neutralize her from the beginning when her shields were up. Since they were, it is proof that he needed them to be down in order to assault her mind, which is what others think as well. She's already blocked telekinesis, I wouldn't be surprise if she's down the same for telepathy, which the scan shows.

I'm just saying that a shield that is protecting your mind from telepathy could not be effective if there are holes in it, she is not fully shielding herself only projecting a field in front, this should not block the reading of a persons mind from what we know about telepathy, this would make me believe that he could read it before, and him not just attacking with tp is the WTF moment.

#26 Posted by Charmix (11958 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Charmix said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Charmix said:

@BMEZY: The F4&X scan isn't canon.

As for the Psi-Lord scan its reasonable to say she took her shields down the minute she said she wouldn't which is why he heard her thoughts Because if so he would of easier enter her mind in the first place. As for the color change in telepathy, its a wtf moment right there. It happens alot with psychic based users in comic and magic ect. Depending on who's the colorist.

But I can see the X-Men winning, its just and always Sue, that is the problem.

it's even more reasonable to say he wasn't using telepathy until he actually did. I was assuming the different color is to illustrate the difference between a tk attack and a tp attack. Like I asked before, is there more? panel before? panel after?

For panel wise thats the only I've seen for proof that Sue can block telepathy, no one has posted a before and after panel. If so why didn't he just neutralize her from the beginning when her shields were up. Since they were, it is proof that he needed them to be down in order to assault her mind, which is what others think as well. She's already blocked telekinesis, I wouldn't be surprise if she's down the same for telepathy, which the scan shows.

I'm just saying that a shield that is protecting your mind from telepathy could not be effective if there are holes in it, she is not fully shielding herself only projecting a field in front, this should not block the reading of a persons mind from what we know about telepathy, this would make me believe that he could read it before, and him not just attacking with tp is the WTF moment.

I see where your at. Not a full shield but instead in the scan she was using a simple barrier as oppose to the standard dome. Ahh, I see. :)

yes, definitively a wtf moment.

#27 Posted by SexualLobster (995 posts) - - Show Bio

Xmen.

I think Colosus and Thing is basically a stalemate.

Cyclops vs. Reed, Reed loses.

Jean vs Sue, Jean wins.

Bobby Vs Johnny could go either way, but morals on Bobby has a huge advantage.

Either way Telepathy is a huge factor here, Jean should be able to win this alone due to telepathy.

#28 Posted by mgrman5 (591 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree if Cyclops plays is cards right and tires to mix up with the match ups, he might be able to pull a win like not putting the similar characters against each other it would be to close of a mach up. Do you think that Reed would be able to come up with a good strategy to fight the X-men, he knows who they are and he is a pretty smart guy.

#29 Posted by Goku1fan (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

@Neo_Prime666 said:

The X-Men, Jean Grey shutsdown all the Fantastic Four minds, end fight.

#30 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

@SexualLobster said:

Xmen.

I think Colosus and Thing is basically a stalemate.

Cyclops vs. Reed, Reed loses.

Jean vs Sue, Jean wins.

Bobby Vs Johnny could go either way, but morals on Bobby has a huge advantage.

Either way Telepathy is a huge factor here, Jean should be able to win this alone due to telepathy.

I disagree with this ...

colossus vs. thing ... I think colossus has a slight edge here but it is negligible.

Cyclops vs. reed ... I think reed has this unless cyclops gets a good shot off. I am a supporter of cyclops being under rated I just think reed due to location etc could find a way to strategically overwhelm cylcops. Yes I know cyclops is a great strategist I just think reed is better.

jean vs sue ... I honestly have no idea who wins here is based on the writer.

bobby vs johnny ... bobby should win this IMO ...

As mentioned eariler jean and sue are key problems here ... but I don't think reed or cyclops should be counted out as key factors as each of them could find a way to win or nullify / take out someone.

I'm voting x-men due to cyclops and bobby .. not jean. I know I said reed was a better strategist but cyclops can take out or harm people from long range and help pull the battle in their favor regardless of the jean sue outcome.

#31 Posted by The Stegman (25094 posts) - - Show Bio

I will say, the X men

#32 Posted by cattlebattle (13016 posts) - - Show Bio
@sandiego008 said:

@SexualLobster said:


colossus vs. thing ... I think colossus has a slight edge here but it is negligible.


I just can't get over this...how in the world does Colossus have a slight edge over Thing?
#33 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

FF due to Jean.

#34 Edited by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/thing-vs-colossus/17161/?page=4

my thoughts on the topic ... and others responses.

No use of me repeating same thing here.

#35 Posted by SexualLobster (995 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle said:

@sandiego008 said:

@SexualLobster said:


colossus vs. thing ... I think colossus has a slight edge here but it is negligible.

I just can't get over this...how in the world does Colossus have a slight edge over Thing?

Expreience.. everything else is pretty even, and they're both so durable I don't see one taking out the other though, that's why I said stalemate.

#36 Posted by SexualLobster (995 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandiego008 said:

@SexualLobster said:

Xmen.

I think Colosus and Thing is basically a stalemate.

Cyclops vs. Reed, Reed loses.

Jean vs Sue, Jean wins.

Bobby Vs Johnny could go either way, but morals on Bobby has a huge advantage.

Either way Telepathy is a huge factor here, Jean should be able to win this alone due to telepathy.

I disagree with this ...

colossus vs. thing ... I think colossus has a slight edge here but it is negligible.

Cyclops vs. reed ... I think reed has this unless cyclops gets a good shot off. I am a supporter of cyclops being under rated I just think reed due to location etc could find a way to strategically overwhelm cylcops. Yes I know cyclops is a great strategist I just think reed is better.

jean vs sue ... I honestly have no idea who wins here is based on the writer.

bobby vs johnny ... bobby should win this IMO ...

As mentioned eariler jean and sue are key problems here ... but I don't think reed or cyclops should be counted out as key factors as each of them could find a way to win or nullify / take out someone.

I'm voting x-men due to cyclops and bobby .. not jean. I know I said reed was a better strategist but cyclops can take out or harm people from long range and help pull the battle in their favor regardless of the jean sue outcome.

I can say I guess Colossus does have a very slight edge here, but not enough to make a difference IMO, both are too durable to really do much.

What is Reed really going to do before cyclops shoots him? They do not have prep.

What could Sue do to stop jean? Jean says 'comatose' and the fight ends.

Agreed, Johnny's powers would kill Bobby, and morals on he wouldn't use them to their extent.

What can reed do without prep to overcome telepathy? That's why I say Jean solos, Sue's forcefields can't stop it either, so Jean is basically an automatic win here.

#37 Posted by mgrman5 (591 posts) - - Show Bio

Here is a scan I found that gives a hint to if Invisible Woman can stop TP with her powers, now I am pretty sure this scan is pretty much invalid since Jean has gotten much more powerful since their first encounter but I thought I would just put it up for some feats to Invisible Woman shield.

#38 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@mgrman5 said:

Here is a scan I found that gives a hint to if Invisible Woman can stop TP with her powers, now I am pretty sure this scan is pretty much invalid since Jean has gotten much more powerful since their first encounter but I thought I would just put it up for some feats to Invisible Woman shield.

Jean didn't have tp then, that was tk.

#39 Posted by TheCannon (19010 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by mgrman5 (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: But Jean said "A woman. That proves you're all Lang's robots. If you were human, my telepathic abilites would have sensed you sneaking up on me." Did she lose it in that instance and did not know she had or is it something else.

#41 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

@mgrman5: She'd only just woken up from a state of suspended animation, the likely explanation is that she simply didn't know.

Moderator
#42 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

I think this is a pretty even matchup. I think X-Men take this. Invisible Woman's shields are going to be a pretty big issue, but Jean Grey's TP might be able to beat that out. Ice Man will wreak havoc for torch, and fantastic (fantastic especially). Colossus can take Thing, though Thing could take Colossus, it's a tossup between these two. And Cyclops has taken down Sentinels with his optic blasts, I think he'll put the team over the edge for a win. I say X-Men 7/10

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#43 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@mgrman5 said:

@LordOfAllHumans: But Jean said "A woman. That proves you're all Lang's robots. If you were human, my telepathic abilites would have sensed you sneaking up on me." Did she lose it in that instance and did not know she had or is it something else.

As mentioned she was in suspended animation, she had no memories (they were in Maddie) of anything after her fighting robots. She believes they must be robots because, last time she checked she was a telepath, and if she can't sense you, you're a robot. Turns out they weren't registering because she had no telepathy, and just wasn't aware of it.

#44 Posted by mgrman5 (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: Oh ok that clears things up nicely must mean that the Invisible Woman vs Jean fight is not so clear cut as is seems, seeing as Jean in that picture did not have TP at the time, Invisible Woman may not be able to block it, thank you, how do you know that she didn't have TP for sure anyway was their a mention of it in an earlier instances; just wondering. Also do you think Jean's TK now could get through her shields since that was being blocked by Invisible Woman shields.

#45 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4178 posts) - - Show Bio

@mgrman5 said:

@LordOfAllHumans: Oh ok that clears things up nicely must mean that the Invisible Woman vs Jean fight is not so clear cut as is seems, seeing as Jean in that picture did not have TP at the time, Invisible Woman may not be able to block it, thank you, how do you know that she didn't have TP for sure anyway was their a mention of it in an earlier instances; just wondering. Also do you think Jean's TK now could get through her shields since that was being blocked by Invisible Woman shields.

That was the earliest instance, this was her first appearance since Dark Phoenix committed suicide. Jean didn't have any telepathy during X-Factor, it was there but she couldn't access it. It's believed that Reed damaged her when attempted to wake her out of her coma. He used a machine that he later regrets using, because it could cause brain damage to somebody with mental powers. Jean wasn't back to being a tk/tp combo until after Psynapse attacked her on the astral plane, which reactivated her telepathy.

With a telekinetic attack I really don't know, although psychic it still acts like a physical force and Sues shield can take a beating. There is no concrete evidence that telepathy won't work. If for some reason it doesn't, Jean can quickly take out the other 3 and then they can gang up on Sue.

#46 Posted by mgrman5 (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans: Ok thanks for your opinion and input your insights on Jean and her powers are delightful she must be one of your favorite characters, awesome :) she is mines too. Probably my favorite woman in Marvel besides Invisible Woman and Rogue.

#47 Posted by BMEZY (1215 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys I AM TELLING YOU!! if Cykez plays this smart and have Bobby focus on Sue, they should take this handidly.. she really doesn't have a way to put him down... she's all into the physical stuff.. bobby does not even have to use an ice medium to go through her shield he can psionically effect sue's body DIRECTLY..

#48 Posted by mgrman5 (591 posts) - - Show Bio

@BMEZY: Yeah this is very true Invisible Woman, has no great defense against Bobby and if that were to go down as such she would be in huge trouble with him. Also that would leave Jean to take on Johnny or Ben seeing as she might have difficulty affecting Reed with her TK/TP seeing as he is so stretchy and a super genius she may not be able to catch up with him telepathically. That leaves Cyclops and Colossus to do what they do best and pull out for a win. But even if the battle goes this way where the teams mix it up or if they fight their counterparts it will still be a hell of a fight for both teams to win.

#49 Posted by lectriccolossus (436 posts) - - Show Bio

I side with the X-Men o n this one, the ace in the hole being Jean. Have her mentally take out Reed and Johnny, while Iceman chills Sue, while Colossus handles up on Thing.