#1 Edited by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

Diredrill at Razztantinople

Razztantinople

Beatboks1, your team is setup in the Red Defense Zone of the Francis International Airport.

You can position any of your troops anywhere within the Red Defense Zone.

You also have access to your Country's Strategic Reserve of Nth Metal Harnesses.

You must protect your Leader, Razzatazz from being killed or taken. She is within a special room that cannot be teleported into and is hardened.

You are ready for an attack but know nothing else.

Diredrill

You start at the Blue Insertion Zone of Charge Island.

You have 1 Hour of Prep (Unless you have the Big Blue Box) to use within the Blue Insertion Zone.

You must kill or capture the enemy Leader, Razzatazz. To access the room, you need to get the access card from the enemy Commander.

You know where your target is but you know nothing of the defenses.

Rules:

You cannot Tele-BFR or Tele-Dismember or Tele-Drop.

You only have 4 posts to make your case. Any posts seeking clarification on an issue will not count so long as no debate is being had.

Prep may not interfere with your opponent only scout from the Insertion Zone.

Civilians are not present.

This is war, no other rules apply.

List Teams:

@beatboks1

Commander - Number 6 (Portable Cerebro [2C])

Lieutenant - Max (L115A3, 6 T-Spheres, 2 UAVs)

  • 3 Mark Valleys (3 Cometa Indian Nickel Spring Guns, 3 Silencers [1])
  • 3 Black Hoods (3 Pepperboxes, 3 Sets of Grenades [2], 3 Grenade Launches with 5 Frag Grenades [2], 3 Ghost Rider Motorcycles)
  • 3 Frank Martins (1 Vanquish, 1 TND BMW, 1 Zao's Juaguar)
  • 3 Cameron Hicks (3 L115A3s, Adamantium Ammunition for 3 [5], 3 Sets of Throwing Blades [1], 3 Silencers)

Lieutenant - Nikita (L115A3, 2 UAVs)

  • 3 Mark Valleys (3 Cometa Indian Nickel Spring Guns, 3 Silencers)
  • 3 Black Hoods (3 Pepperboxes, 3 Sets of Grenades, 3 Grenade Launches with 5 Frag Grenades, 3 Ghost Rider Motorcycles)
  • 3 Frank Martins (1 Vanquish, 1 TND BMW, 1 Zao's Juaguar)
  • 3 Cameron Hicks (3 L115A3s, Adamantium Ammunition for 3, 3 Sets of Throwing Blades, 3 Silencers)

Lieutenant - Argus (Depleted Uranium Nunchaku, Sonic Grenades, Teflon/Leather/Fiberglass Weave Armor, 4 UAVs, 1 AC-130 Strike)

  • 3 Mark Valleys (3 Cometa Indian Nickel Spring Guns)
  • 3 Black Hoods (3 Pepperboxes, 3 Sets of Grenades, 3 Grenade Launches with 5 Frag Grenades, 1 Batman Tumbler, 2 Batpods)
  • 3 Frank Martins (3 Cannon Tumblers)
  • 3 Cameron Hicks (3 L115A3s, Adamantium Ammunition for 3, 3 Sets of Throwing Blades)

Lieutenant - Timberwolf (2 UAVs)

  • 3 Mark Valleys (3 Cometa Indian Nickel Spring Guns, 3 Submersible Motorcycles)
  • 3 Black Hoods (3 Pepperboxes, 3 Sets of Grenades, 3 Grenade Launches with 5 Frag Grenades, 3 Submersible Motorcycles)
  • 3 Frank Martins (2 TND BMWs, 1 Missile Tumbler)
  • 3 Cameron Hicks (3 L115A3s, Adamantium Ammunition for 3, 3 Sets of Throwing Blades)

Radioshack Pack [1C]

Vehicle Packages [1C, 5] - Bond, James Bond, Liar, Liar Wheels on Fire, Tumblers Today

Strike Package Bravo [1C] - 10 UAVs with 1 Missile, 1 AC-130 Airstrike

vs.

@diredrill

Commander - The Joker (Joker Venom, Comically Oversized Revolver, Bladed Playing Cards, Cyanide Pies, 10,000 Watt Joy Buzzer, Acid Flower, Portable Cerebro[2C])

Lieutenant - Cyclops (Costume, Muramasa Blade)

  • 2 Sages (4 Silencers [1], 2 Portal Guns, 2 UAVs, 2 Bucking Bronco Vigors [2], 2 Goblin Gliders [4])
  • 2 Bullseyes (2 .50 Caliber Rifles with Anti-Armor Ammunition[2], 2 Goblin Gliders)
  • 2 Daredevils (Billy Clubs, 2 Sets of Throwing Blades [1], 2 Goblin Gliders)
  • 6 Banes (6 .50 Caliber Rifles with Anti-Armor Ammunition, 12 AA-12 Shotguns [1])

Lieutenant - Mystique (Sniper Rifle, Dual Pistols, Portal Gun, 1 AC-130 Strike)

  • 6 Daredevils (Billy Clubs, 6 Charge Vigors [2], 6 Sets of Throwing Blades, 6 Spiderwalking Boots[2])
  • 6 Bullseyes (6 Sets of Trick Boomerangs[3], 6 Spiderwalking Boots)

Lieutenant - Green Goblin (616) (Goblin Glider, Goblin Suit, Bag of Tricks, Portal Gun, 2 UAVs, 3 Sentry Turrets)

  • 2 Sages (4 Silencers, 2 UAVs, 2 Longfall Boots)
  • 2 Bullseyes (2 .50 Caliber Rifles with Anti-Armor Ammunition, 2 Longfall Boots)
  • 2 Daredevils (Billy Clubs, 2 Bucking Bronco Vigors, 2 Sets of Throwing Blades, 2 Longfall Boots)
  • 6 Banes (6 Miniguns[2], 6 Longfall Boots)

Lieutenant - Green Goblin (Spider-man Animated Series) (Goblin Glider, Goblin Suit, Super Goblin Glider, Bag of Tricks, Portal Gun, 2 UAVs, 3 Sentry Turrets)

  • 2 Sages (4 Silencers, 2 UAVs, 2 Longfall Boots)
  • 2 Bullseyes (2 .50 Caliber Rifles with Anti-Armor Ammunition, 2 Longfall Boots)
  • 2 Daredevils (Billy Clubs, 2 Bucking Bronco Vigors, 2 Sets of Throwing Blades, 2 Longfall Boots)
  • 6 Banes (6 Miniguns, 6 Longfall Boots)

Aperture Science Crate [2C] - 5 Portal Guns, 24 Longfall Boots, 6 Aperture Science Sentries

Strike Package Bravo [1C] - 10 UAVs with 1 Missile, 1 AC-130 Strike

#2 Edited by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Edited by beatboks1 (6949 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill

I'll assume for the purpose of debate I don't know in advance my enemies insertion point and operate under a standard type defense

Timberwolf's and Max's squads are front line defense while Argus and Nikita are rear/last line.

Their squad is set up in three defensive positions. The first is three teams monitoring and defending the three bridges that give access to the island (orange ticks), a natural choice for defense. These three teams will be the 6 Christopher Chances and the 6 Cameron Hicks (two of each at each location). Both by far the better marksmen. They will be set up in high rise buildings over looking the bridge from either side with Hicks focused solely on the bridge and Christopher's spotting for possible water insertions. The Black Hoods who have submersible bikes in the water near the bridges as pre set pincer positions (brown squares) once an attack commences. The Frank Martins and remaining Black hoods on ghost rider bikes are on the central road that links the bridge to defensive position equal distance from all three forward positions ready for evac and support and to fortify retreat paths (green Triangles).

Timber wolf will be with one of the three advance teams and Max another. Using their enhanced senses to watch for coming attack as an early warning system. One will be at the bridge near the airport while the other is at the center bridge ( chosen by 6 as third bridge gives the furthest and most indirect travel path to the main defense chambers. Plenty of time to scramble a defense that way should an enemy use it).

Once an attack forces presence in identified those defensive teams in position at the wrong bridges will use the Nth metal harnesses to fly to the correct one before the team there engages, as will the Black Hoods in the water. The defense team will allow the majority of the attacking force to get at least half way across the bridge (almost fully across) before opening fire. The 6 Cameron hicks will remain in sniper positions up high while the Christopher chances take to the ground to set up a cross fire attack. Basically each of them will have a limited angle firing solution where they see only in a small span line but each line covers the lacked sight of the other. the advantage of this is that while it limits angle of every single member of the fire solution is maximizes the effect of the unit as a whole and vastly minimizes the risk to the individual members of the team the limited attack mode they have also means the most operational cover from enemy fire as well (diagram below). While the Cameron's focus on the ground troops Max will be looking for any air offensive to take it out.

Assume each of the rectangles is an enclosed firing position that gives complete cover. The shooter within cannot be seen or hit by random fire from angles other than the shooting lines shown. Complete fire saturation across an area with minimal exposure.

Once the enemy is half beyond half way across the bridge the Black Hoods in the water will surface, take up position ( remember they are all TP linked courtesy of mini cerebro so what one troop member sees they all know) and using grenades and launcher and pepper box take out the retreat by destroying the end of the bridge nearest insertion point.. Any troopes that remained behind to protect retreat will be cut off from the main force and the rest are stuck with their backs to the wall and facing attack sniper fire with little to no means of taking cover. They will be forced to charge just to survive which will drive them straight into the cross fire kill zone.

Meanwhile the Franks and the remaining hoods from these squads will be using the frag grenades and Frank Martin's S.A.S expertise in munitions to set up booby traps as a scorched earth defense should front line fall.

The red X's in the map above s where Nikita's team will be set up initially in preparedness for attack. Once the position of the enemy is known teh X without an aroow will use Nth metal to join the other two making two teams of 6. Simlalry the Green Circles are Argus' team split into two.

By the time you get ( if you do) to any of my secondary fortifications you will have lost significant numbers

#4 Posted by DireDrill (2434 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by RazzaTazz (9450 posts) - - Show Bio

Go team Razz! Don't let me be captured

Moderator
#6 Posted by beatboks1 (6949 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: I do have this right don't I. two units attack and two defense?

#7 Posted by DireDrill (2434 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Actually you get to use your entire team in both battles as you have two identical platoons. If you would like to edit your first post or delete it and repost you may as you were unaware of the rules. As a defending team, you can call upon your Strategic Reserve and arm your people with Nth Metal Harnesses as well. I know I said I would get to my post tonight but I am a bit more tired from work than I anticipated.

#8 Posted by DireDrill (2434 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I see you opted to edit. That is a probably for the best. Thank you for making use of the map by the way. I was hoping that people would take advantage of the provided maps to mark fortifications and such.

Before I get started with prep and my initial strategy I want to talk a little of how my team is structured.

Joker and Cyclops as well as Cyclops' squad will form my command crew. They will facilitate much of the action that takes place.

Mystique and her squad will be my infiltrators charged with getting in silently.

My Green Goblins' Squads will be my main force creating all the chaos that can be created.

Just so you know which version of the Green Goblin I am using, here are some clips of him using his Super Goblin Glider.

As you can see here, he has stats around Animated Spider-man's level just like 616 Green Goblin. You should also note how durable his Super Glider is, capable of crashing through a building completely and still flying.

This is Green Goblin fighting the Hobgoblin inside a building on Gliders. As you can see, he is using superior versions of Hobgoblin's tech since he built it.

This is the Hobgoblin, who has only peak human at best reflexes, first using the Super Glider. It has Smart Missiles, Buzzsaw Launchers, Lasers, remote controlled, durable, and fast.

As not everyone has played Portal, I'll provide some videos on all of the equipment:

These are turrets, they fire bullets at people that they see. Pretty simple and relatively easy to transport and they come in an urban camo color which is beneficial here. :) They can also sustain a pretty good fall thanks to the next item.

Longfall boots allow for the wearer to pretty much survive any fall from high up with no problem. This video also showcases the Portal Gun which is a powerful device that allows for linking 2 points in space time. Here is a trailer video to avoid any spoilers but it also showcases what can be done with a portal gun. I have 5 so this is from Portal 2.

These are the Vigors Bucking Bronco and Charge.

I assume that covers most of the items that are lesser known on my team. Hopefully this will clear up any issues you may have understanding parts of my strategy.

Prep:

The first thing that Joker does is to inject all of his people with some of his awesome cooking. This will make my entire team quite happy:

Not many people know about this application of Joker Venom but it is awesome. This has the bonus of removing any morality or team chemistry issues my team may have. We also will be setting up inside an old boat house. It has nothing in particular of note but it it does provide good cover from aerial surveillance and is large enough to accommodate my entire team. The Joker will have each of the Portal Gun Holders shoot their first portal (Each gun supports 2 different colored portals) onto one of the long walls. Cyclops and his Banes will take up position in front of these portals. My Daredevils with Goblin Gliders fly out and scout out the area while the UAVs map it out. With Sage collating all the data mentally, she'll be able to telepathically give Joker an almost exact map of the area. Unfortunately, none of your people are known to any of my team save for maybe Argus or Timberwolf to Joker or Bane so I don't gain any tactically relevant data from your team. Likewise none of your vehicles beyond the Ghost Rider Cycles are known to my team so they would be mostly unknown. Thankfully, none of your people have any real knowledge of most of my people and tech either so it sort of cancels itself out.

Strategy

Much like you I have an edited map that outlines my strategy.

Now this is just yours modified. I will explain the new marks as I get to them.

Just so you know, you missed the northern Duke Bay Bridge at the Black X which would have left your second line defense rather open to massive flanking. Otherwise your defense plan is great, for a conventional ground force. My team is not conventional nor will I be using the bridges as anything more than a distraction.

Animated Series Green Goblin, hereafter referred to as Toon GG, will be heading to the Broker Bridge at the Purple X.

This bridge was chosen specifically for several reasons.

  1. It is the farthest from my base of operations.
  2. It is the farthest from the Orange Line.
  3. It is also the only bridge with large brick towers.

Toon GG then sets a portal up on one of the sides of the bridges towers facing your island. He then drops his turrets down on your side of the island and they pop open and start shooting should they spot any of your team. I'll assume that they don't because that would be stupid of your team. They are there to draw your fire. Toon GGs squad then leap out of the portal. Thanks to longfall boots, they'll hit the ground and keep moving regardless of the height. The Banes begin firing indiscriminately with those chainguns of theirs. Without stepping through the Portal, Cyclops then starts firing through it again indiscriminately. They aren't trying to hit any of your teammates just bring them out of hiding. Daredevil will be using his impressive detection skills to keep track of your team while Toon GGs UAVs fly about tracking troop movements. Your strategy is then to pull as many people as you can to my attackers using the mobility granted to you by the Nth Metal Harness. Whenever Daredevil can point out a sniping location, one of the Sages will deploy their Missile Strike. Though smaller, my portal-backed squad will be able to deliver tremendous damage. This plays directly into the Joker's hand as he wants you to focus on killing this squad.

Before Toon GG is raising hell on the Bridge, Mystique will have put her equipment into a waterproof box and shapeshifted into Dolphin. Thanks to radiation exposure she can take on the natural physical traits of things she shapeshifts into allowing her to swim all the way around the island along the Orange Line to the Arrow. Underwater her scent can't be detected and it also renders most forms of detection impossible. Once about half way to her location, Toon GG starts raising hell at the Broker Bridge pulling your attention in that direction allowing her to slip past. Once to her destination, she pops out of the water and puts a portal up on the tarmac. GG, not Toon GG, and one of the Goblin Gliding Daredevils flies through the portal leading the rest of Mystique's squad. Mystique's Squad then works their way through the airport with the Daredevils locating the hardened room and hopefully your commander should he have stayed at the airport. You never detailed his position so I can't be sure where they will run into him.

GG with the DD will locate your Argus Squad and use his Pumpkin Bombs to disperse them while using his Portal gun to summon his squad as reinforcements. Banes will provide suppressive fire while Daredevil will use Bucking Bronco to counter any cover allowing Bullseye to just annihilate them. When it is down to just Argus, GG will hit him with a Pumpkin Bomb causing him to have to regenerate wherein Cyclops will be summoned via portal to kill him via Muramasa. Upon taking out all foes they pop back into the Portal and GG moves it. By the time that Nikita's Squad can close the distance, they'll be gone with no signs of where they went beyond the exhaust trail that GG will have purposefully left. Nikita's team will think that my team effed up and come flying after them. This is a trap. While "fleeing" GG will place a portal on the ground and have Cyclops shoot his Optic blast through it creating a small wall of concussive force that will knock some of his pursuers out. He'll continue doing this until most of the enemy squad is eliminated. That is two of your support squads gone. Eventually GG and DD will find No. 6 and will kill him and take his card. At that point he gets teleported to the room via portal and goes for the kill. Sorry, @razzatazz but I had to do it.

As good as your defense is, it is too conventional for my team's superior mobility. I am really surprised that the Portal guns weren't taken by more people as they give you such ridiculous mobility.

#9 Posted by beatboks1 (6949 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll hopefully get back to this(and my attack one) tomorrow. Long work day and I'm stuffed ( early start 2morrow 2).

I may yet have to drop out. School holidays start on Saturday and I'm taking my kids away. I'll have our tablets with me but no scans/clips etc. I'll see how I go.

#10 Posted by beatboks1 (6949 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: said

Just so you know, you missed the northern Duke Bay Bridge at the Black X which would have left your second line defense rather open to massive flanking. Otherwise your defense plan is great, for a conventional ground force. My team is not conventional nor will I be using the bridges as anything more than a distraction.

Actually I didn't miss it, it was deliberately left open hoping to draw an attack into a trap set and end this thing quickly. With some minor modifications to the trap you have played beautifully into it.

You will notice a few baring omissions in my first post.

  1. no location given for Number 6
  2. no placement of the T-Spheres
  3. no actions of Nikita or Argus' units ( save arrows moving back to defensive zone not into attacking Zone)
  4. no placement or use of the UAV's or the Ac-130 Strike.

There was a reason for this, it was part of my trap. You'll remember I mentioned that 6 is a brilliant psychological warfare kind of guy. he's used to making his enemies jump through the hoops he's set the way he wants even when they are in control.

my team will transport 6 away from our defense zone at the commencement of "battle time" (i.e. after your prep) to the south most point of the defensive island. He will have one T-Shpere with him the other 5 will be around the airport.

Before taking up position Nikita and Argus' teams will dismantle the warheads of the 10 missiles ( the ones for the UAV's) and use half of these to set charges around the airport, the rest will be split between Nikita and Argus' teams. A small portion of each explosive only will be put back on the UAV's near the fuel tank so that they can be used a Kamikaze attack planes. The 5 remaining T-Sheres will detect your presence as son as those portals open and will use their holographs and lasers to engage and occupy these forces. Using the holograms you will be deceived mistaking your own troops for the enemy and in to thinking that all the forces of the enemy are right in front of you. led like lambs to the slaughter until many of your forces are in a few areas pres set with explosive charges. The entire area will go up taking out chunks of your forces with it. Literally every part of the airport will be set to be raised to the ground except the small bunker Razz Tazz is in. You will follow the holograms into death traps because in many of them you will see your objective in 6.

You'll notice from my initial map markings at no point will my second two teams be seeking to engage. The arrows from Nikita's teams position are showing her movement back to the defensive zone. Similarly Argus' will also. Their mission was never to engage the enemy it was to prepare scorched earth tactics. whether the enemy comes from the front or rear makes no difference. If the enemy comes from the bridges then the explosives will be ignited once the enemy reach that point in their attack of the defensive zone. If they attack from the rear and survive the little death trap prepared for them they will be exploded as they reach that point having not found 6 in the defensive zone. Charges will be set on support beams of high rises as well as on the ground to collapse buildings on top of areas or use them like dominoes to crush an entire area should the need arise. Control of ALL these explosives will be gained by using the not needed radios that were part of the radio shack pack with 6 having the controlling detonation frequency as well as the T-shperes able to enable a "bad sport" scenario where should my entire platoon fall it will be impossible for any attacking force to achieve it's objective. The UAV's will also launch at any attacking force in a completely kamikaze attack mode. The Ac-130 Strike will similarly circle the battlefield and concentrate it's fire in the enemies attack zone until it falls at which point as much as possible will be aimed solely at crashing into the enemies position as much as control will allow.

My plan is and always was to let you get near to what you thought was your target and take you out along with the battlefield itself.

#11 Posted by DireDrill (2434 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: That is an impressive display of resourcefulness that I was not expecting. Too bad it is all for naught.

The biggest problem I see with this scenario is that it does not take into account Daredevil. Daredevil renders all illusions and all potential traps useless. His Radar Sense is the best detection power that a peak human can have. When Mystique's squad arrives at the back of the airport. They will detect your T-Spheres easily and regardless of how fast they are, they will get one shotted by Captain Boomerang's Explosive Boomerangs thrown with Bullseye's impeccable accuracy. Once the T-Spheres are gone, you won't know when to deploy your explosives.

The second issue is your UAVs and AC-130. I did not address them because like you said, you had not used them so I had no idea how to show my team interacting with them. You'll note I did not use my AC-130 either nor did I use my Goblin Glider equipped Bullseyes. The whole purpose of the Bullseyes is to make sure that I have air superiority. Now that your UAVs and AC-130 are on the field, the Joker will deploy the Bullseyes with a Sage and a Daredevil. Using my own UAVs, my Sage will coordinate my Bullseyes to take down all of your Air Forces. They have AS-50 .50 calibre rifles with Anti-Armor Ammunition, this gives them both the striking power and the range to easily deal with your AC-130 and your UAVs.

The third issue is your scorched earth tactic is useless against the mobility of my team. It takes my team no time at all to completely retreat. My setup in the boat house allows my team to retreat within the smallest amount of time. Any large scale explosives will be detected in less than a second by my Daredevils who again can hear them or detect the ones in the area before they go off. Once that occurs, the Sages will send the word to retreat and save everyone's life. All you will have succeeded in doing is reducing any cover you may have had to nothing. Without cover, my Goblin Gliding Bullseyes become the ultimate high ground.

Lastly, should we be unable to locate your Commander, we go with the backup plan. We use Daredevil to locate Razzatazz and then we use our AC-130 Strike to weaken the bunker. Then we use Cyclops to get rid of any rubble. Then the Joker comes and pumps Joker Venom into the room killing Razzatazz.

#12 Edited by beatboks1 (6949 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill:

That is an impressive display of resourcefulness that I was not expecting.

Actually it's only slight twists or ramped up version of tactics I've used in the field. Even though I've been out of the service 20+ years if an 15 year special forces officer can't come up with at least some decent tactics I'd have been dead decades ago.

The biggest problem I see with this scenario is that it does not take into account Daredevil. Daredevil renders all illusions and all potential traps useless.

How exactly will DD's radar help him discern hologram form real. One of the functions used by Micheal Holt of of the T-Spheres is a laser grid. It has been used to create a physical barrier that has trapped and held physical beings. The holograms are generated from the same lasers aren't they?? That would mean that just like a star trek holodeck they project solid photons that would rebound radar.

They will detect your T-Spheres easily and regardless of how fast they are, they will get one shotted by Captain Boomerang's Explosive Boomerangs thrown with Bullseye's impeccable accuracy.

T-Spheres are incredibly sensitive sensors equipped with lasers. I seriously don't see any problem with them shooting down some boomerangs or anything else getting near them. Also how will they be detected, You have know knowledge of what they are or what they can do and no reason to make assumptions that they are even a threat. Not to mention my Kicks could simply shoot them down with consummate ease.

Once the T-Spheres are gone, you won't know when to deploy your explosives.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that you actually do take out the T-Shperes. I've used radios as a sending device to activate my detonators ( or to be the detonators). They are a two way form of communication. It would not be hard to have different radios on different frequencies monitors by certain troops so that they hear the noise made by your troops on approach. There is also eh fact that my troops can be spotters for your movement. There are plenty of ways I can "know when to deploy the explosives, the T-Spheres aren't even needed for that.

The second issue is your UAVs and AC-130.

The UAV's and AC-130 are of absolutely no consequence. As I said their mission is complete kamikaze, shoot them down they are only headed straight to crash into you anyways so thy achieved the objective of diverting some of your attention

The whole purpose of the Bullseyes is to make sure that I have air superiority.

Your kidding right? You seriously think you have air superiority? Every single member of my platoon is wearing a Nth metal harness. for the few you have able to take to the air I have 53, all of whom are more maneuverable with greater control. 12 of whom are better marksmen than Bullseye. Show me a single feat that Bullseye has that is better then what Hick's did in the 20th second of this one

The third issue is your scorched earth tactic is useless against the mobility of my team. It takes my team no time at all to completely retreat. My setup in the boat house allows my team to retreat within the smallest amount of time. Any large scale explosives will be detected in less than a second by my Daredevils who again can hear them or detect the ones in the area before they go off. Once that occurs, the Sages will send the word to retreat and save everyone's life. All you will have succeeded in doing is reducing any cover you may have had to nothing. Without cover, my Goblin Gliding Bullseyes become the ultimate high ground.

No it's really not

1. Retreating doesn't achieve your objective necessary to win. that can only be achieved by playing my way. As the entire area around the bunker with Razz Tazz ins set up to explode when I see fit even plan B is useless as you can't achieve it without somehow getting near enough to be in my trap.

2. How exactly does DD "HEAR" an inert inactive bomb?? It is simply substance/compound that has explosive capability once ignited/detonated. Until such time as the signal is sent to detonate there is nothing to hear. So that just wont be happening because between the time DD "hears" something and the bomb explodes you wont have time to even fire a port gun.

3. What cover have I reduced for myself. My team isn't even in the area. Remember my troop placements? My team is all between the Airport and the bridge. If you attacked from the bridge they were going to withdraw to the airport. Since you've attacked from the airport they'll withdraw into the cover away from the airport. it's tactically stupid for an defending team to seek to engage an enemy they don't have to when they can make the terrain do their fighting for them. That's how the Russians broke the Germans on the Western front.

4. When I deem it reasonable to engage in the air your goblin glider Bullseyes will be so damn outnumbered in the air they will have no idea which way to fire, and since with the healing properties of the Nth metal they wont be able to effect even a single kill they'll be ground into dust when I choose to finish them off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFVPfv6TqFg

Not to mention the fact that that Nth metal also gives every single member of my platoon a healing factor approaching that of Wolverine. One of the properties of the metal is it's healing abilities, it has a LOT more but those two are plenty and doozies. Super strength is another but in the interests of fairness I wont claim that one.

Not to mention an airborn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8kkHMJyOYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uts5shadT7I

Max has enhanced strength, speed, agility, healing, and senses that match DD in hearing etc and Argus in sight. She was trained in art of warfare, and subterfuge from a small child. She has eluded a covert organization most of her life and taken them down in the end. Her Brain function is also at peak to the point where she can watch a roulette wheel and calculate where the ball will stop. Not to mention the part feline in her genetic mix for "perfection"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0H1z2kZFYg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5W-lnWqDKo

Nikita is also a top trained assassin. Like max she went up against he organization that trained her and single handedly brought it down. She also did the same to their opposite number. She was the only character on the show who fought and did well against "Guardians" who are chemically enhanced ( except another Guardian that is). The first scene in the first clip was her very first mission after training- the assassin in the pool, not other character could match Owen, the Cleaner and the other Guardians). At 2 minutes 50 in the second one you see her enter the gym of Section after she escaped captivity there and engage a dozen or so of their assassins. Later in the series she enters Langley after Section has warned she was coming to prevent them from assassinating the director of the CIA. She actually makes it to the Director just in time for Section to do a frame up of her for the murder. All the best of CIA couldn't stop her and they couldn't stop her from getting out either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3K-y-I0yz8

Frank martin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1h4OnXRn0w

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdrQA6CuHAM

Christopher Chance and Frank are also both reformed assassins masters of many styles of combat and weaponry, munitions. Plus Chance's photographic memory doesn't hurt either. When he's needed to for a cover he can become a Doctor, Lawyer, or speak any language in no time.

Here we have Chance vs the World Champion cage fighter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Carz-FuKH3M

Vs 5 armed men when unarmed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwTsg4uCvCc

.vs Kung foo master

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLkKx_ahcBc

.vs Guerrero ( his best friend and the other best assassin in the show)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS5KSmJOGpw

#13 Posted by DireDrill (2434 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Daredevil can't be fooled by Holograms alone. Mysterio pulled out all the stops to beat Daredevil and required hallucinogens to make his holograms even slow down Daredevil. Mysterio is a lot better illusionist than anyone on your team. The fact that your holograms won't have heartbeats, scents, and a variety of human things will immediately alert my Daredevils. In addition to that his sense of smell allows him to discern explosives with no problem like a bomb sniffing dog. Daredevil gives me a giant sphere of near absolute knowledge of what is in the area. His hearing, smelling, and touch make him the best possible counter to that plan.

This is Bullseye we are talking about here not some normal guy. He was able to pluck one of Spider-man's Spider Tracers out of the air and throw it back at him and hit him before Spider-man could react. Spider-Tracers don't broadcast a specific signal that only his Spider-sense can even register. It is so good that even Tony Stark couldn't detect it because none of his sensors were attuned to Spider Sense. I tell you this because throwing a Spider Tracer at Spider-man and hitting him would be like throwing a metal blade at Magneto and hitting him. While one of my Bullseyes is throwing his Boomerang another will fire their AK-47 at the T-Sphere to force it into position for the Boomerang to hit. Your T-Spheres do not stand a chance against my superior number of Bullseyes who have feats well in excess of what T-Spheres are capable of dodging or hitting. They need only know that T-Spheres are an advantage that your team has and taking it out grants them an advantage.

Any spotters you have on the Airport will get taken down by Green Goblin and Daredevil as they fly over them. Trying to use radios left on as sensors will also tell my Daredevils exactly where your radios are allowing them to dispatch them with long range blade throws. Now if you detonate upon destruction the radio, then you lose your hold over the airport. I'll be using Mystique's Daredevils as scouts in the airport and they are armed with the Charge Vigor which grants invulnerability while active. Should you detonate your explosives at anytime, he'll detect it quick and activate the charge and tank the explosion. Considering that he can detect Nightcrawler teleporting before he does so, he will sense the pressure wave created by the explosion well before it hits him and be able to react. The Airport will be completely mine once the Spotters and T-Spheres are eliminated. After Daredevil has found Razzatazz, that AC-130 Strike will kill any remaining explosives you may have and allow Joker and Cyclops to do their thing. Leaving Razzatazz unprotected, was a bad idea given my team's superior destructive power.

There is also a very dangerous aspect to using radios as detonators. Once they detect that you are using radios as your detonator, the Joker will use his years of munitions experience and recall his forces. Then he'll instruct his AC-130 pilot to fly low enough that his radio can reach places around the island. He'll then have them cycle through all potential frequencies and detonate your explosives prematurely. With my forces now completely safe from your scorched earth tactics, they can then start hunting your team down.

Your AC-130 and UAVs will not be killed in a way that allows them to kamikaze not that they could anyways. The air is a bad place for you to be against Bullseyes on Gliders. Gliders are by far the most maneuverable thing in this match with more control than the Nth Metal Harness could ever hope to achieve. Let me show you this scan:

That is Norman Osborn on a Goblin Glider inside a room that is maybe 50 foot by 50 foot flying a glider around drunk while setting up dominoes. It is so well balanced that he is able to be crouched on his tip toes on it. You'll also note how the the bottle is just sitting their on the edge completely undisturbed like it was on a tempurpedic mattress. You think that any Nth Metal Harness wearer has a feat on that level for control or maneuverability? Each one can also be guided while the character is on the ground and be turned into a guided bladed missile. Let's talk about Hicks real quick. His Hyperkinesis comes with a fairly regretful downside, namely it will cause him to choke in situations where he is being stressed to the point of making him into an average person. He wasn't able to finish to baseball game because of it and you think he'll be able to make the good play when facing off against someone like Bullseye who is on par if not superior to him? Let's also remember that Rosen isn't here to keep him balanced so he'll not be at his best even then. Also, I'll match your Sniper Rifle rebound trick with this Toothpick kill from a 100 yards away through a glass window feat:

Hicks could never pull that off especially under the pressures he will be facing. Given this, it will allow my Gliding Bullseyes to just annihilate anyone who enters into their realm.

Also, Nth Metal Harnesses do not grant anything close to Wolverine level healing or Sue Dibny would have been unable to kill Hawk Girl with an old spear through the heart. Did you forget that they were both easily murdered by the Dibnies during Blackest Night? Its healing only really works when the wound is not mortal. None of my guys will be going for anything less than headshots. The strength boost allows them to what, rip a car door off its hinges? Your Nth Metal Harnesses only really give you effective flight, light healing boost, and light strength boost but nothing that my team has not faced before or killed before.

Now if you want to match people to people, my GGs and Mystique each easily outpace Max and Nikita by a large margin. Argus and Timberwolf are your only real physical threats but they can both be taken down by Pumpkin Bombs and Muramasas. Daredevil, Bullseye, and Bane all have the ability to take any one of your infantry on with no problem at all and they could easily tear apart Max and Nikita as well. No. 6 is nowhere near the level of the Joker in physicals, prep, or outright leadership. My team without any strategy would easily render your team of mostly enhanced humans fairly dead in moments. With a strategy, they don't have the power to keep my team from just outright outmaneuvering them.

#14 Edited by beatboks1 (6949 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill:

Daredevil can't be fooled by Holograms alone. Mysterio pulled out all the stops to beat Daredevil and required hallucinogens to make his holograms even slow down Daredevil. Mysterio is a lot better illusionist than anyone on your team.

With respect Mysterio is at best a C grade villain. Mr T is a B Grade hero who's illusion have fooled a LOT better than Mysterio's.

The fact that your holograms won't have heartbeats, scents, and a variety of human things will immediately alert my Daredevils

You only have twelve DD's and not all of them are at the airport. yes they may have questions as to why they don't sense a smell but as for the others, DD hears heart beats on the other side of the street and a few stories up not the distances we're talking here. It's also in the middle of a lot of action with laser fire striking your team. Hardly sufficient to order a full withdrawl unless your team lack the fortitude to succeed at all. Also since when has Matt had any experience with military high end explosives to even know what they smell like to discern them?? stretching much?

In addition to that his sense of smell allows him to discern explosives with no problem like a bomb sniffing dog. Daredevil gives me a giant sphere of near absolute knowledge of what is in the area. His hearing, smelling, and touch make him the best possible counter to that plan.

I think you've forgotten what munitions I'm using here. It's not like this is a standard IED made from TNT, Cemtec or chemical explosives. I'm using the explosive charge from missiles. Most are nuclear and those that aren't these days use Pentaerythritol tetranitrate which is VERY difficult for sniffer dogs to detect. Other missile explosive compounds used for the last at least 3 decades aren't exactly detectible by smell as they don't mix with the air.

This is Bullseye we are talking about here not some normal guy. He was able to pluck one of Spider-man's Spider Tracers out of the air and throw it back at him and hit him before Spider-man could react. Spider-Tracers don't broadcast a specific signal that only his Spider-sense can even register.

And he's up against a guy who has better movement reading ( even includes reading the movement of projectile bodies) than Cass Caine. Hick is a hyperkinetic. He's shot the bullets fired at him out of the air, his reactions are super hightened. he has no physical enhancements but he's by far a better marksman than Bullseye and his hyperkinetic ability also makes him a superb H2H combatant even able to match and better people with Super strength and speed. When one of his team mates was used a shield he simply shot the guy holding her in the back while 15 feet in front of him by rebounding the bullet of a lamp post. When storming a place in a raid he fired shots timed perfectly so that when two swat moved out of the road of the line of fire he shot out the hinges and lock of a door so that it fell away just before they arrived at it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3itxa2SSpl0&list=PLSdvYq3H6NuBcB1wPhJs60ydFVfNfeweW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Jy9-P5SJ8&list=PLSdvYq3H6NuBcB1wPhJs60ydFVfNfeweW&index=2

Just because you obviously missed it before a better clip of the shot. he fires from a rooftop a block away into an air vent just so that he ricochets a bullet of the air vent at the other side to kill his target.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBKfZP_7t_0&list=PLSdvYq3H6NuBcB1wPhJs60ydFVfNfeweW

Bullseye has NOTHING even close and this isn't even Hicks best feat.

Any spotters you have on the Airport will get taken down by Green Goblin and Daredevil as they fly over them.

Have you forgotten who's on my team? Argus' vision means he could be in a bunker underground and still watch and know where most your guy's are. He has xray, infra red, ultraviolet and floroscopic vision. he sees through walls even lead ones. Not to mention see the weaknesses and vulnerabilities in things

Timber Wolf also has hearing and smell in DD/Wolverine's level and Max is with them also but enhanced vision and acquity as well.

.

Trying to use radios left on as sensors will also tell my Daredevils exactly where your radios are allowing them to dispatch them with long range blade throws.

HOW exactly. Matt can't "hear" radio waves and it's not like the radio left on makes a sound. It's not a sensor it is just a radio channel left open. With the hearing of Max and Timberwolf monitoring these radios knowing your where abouts at all times while your in the airport wont be hard. I'd like to see scans of that.

Gliders are by far the most maneuverable thing in this match with more control than the Nth Metal Harness could ever hope to achieve. Let me show you this scan:

HA HA, really how is that even a fraction as maneuverable as wearing a harness made of a thought sensitive metal that creates anti gravity fields? All anyone on my teams has to do is think 6 feet higher and they are, and Brin (timerwolf) is a very experienced user of a VERY similar device called a flight ring and courtesy of 6 and mini cerebro he's linked to every singe member of my platoon. How could you possibly think flying anything that has to be steered more maneuverable than something that just moves you at will???

Also, Nth Metal Harnesses do not grant anything close to Wolverine level healing or Sue Dibny would have been unable to kill Hawk Girl with an old spear through the heart. Did you forget that they were both easily murdered by the Dibnies during Blackest Night?

Di you forget CV rules?

When these things are left out it’s generally assumed that characters are fighting to the best of their ability but still within the limits of their personality, using their standard gear, have no prep time, and are their current mainstream versions.

Most of that was pretty damn mortal. Currently Nth metal even morphs into what the wearer wants it to be, when Hawkman needs it to it becomes a full body suit of armor. So go for all the head shots you want wont make one iota of difference. I thought it was surprising that I had it and even asked for something else because I though it was a little unfair but what ever.

Hell even if you take pre 52 thre re a LOT moore fets of surviving mortal damage nd being healed from it in short orderthaan PIS low showings.

1. BA beats Hawkman up badly and then drops him to earth from above the highest sky scarpers in the area, Hawk crashes through a car leaving it a reck and then get's back up.

This is pre 52 and fairly recent. No one on your team can deliver that level of damage. The only thing Hawkman has that allows him to survive that level of punishment is the his Nth metal harness etc. I'd like to see someone without a very serious healing factor take that type of punishment and still be walking around. There are plenty others ( well into the 100's) that I could show with similar levels of durability/healing offered by nothing more than a Nth metal harness.

Tanking point bank explosions and more. He's even tanked being in space without a suit close to a sun.

from JLA 116

http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/JLA116-07.jpg.html

http://s125.photobucket.com/user/DCHawks_photo/media/JLA116-09.jpg.html

Only a few pages later

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p68/DCHawks_photo/JLA116-12.jpg

I can literally come up with hundreds more that show how much healing Nth metal gives

2. Hawkgirl also against BA has her wings ripped off in the stratosphere and survives the fall to earth

3. Green Arrow puts half dozen arrow shafts through hawkman ( one straight through the middle of the chest) AND it doesn't even slow him down.

4. In the Rann Thanagar war Hawkman survived a AOE attack that laid waste to the entire area

5. Also in said war he tanked and was healed in short order from 3 degree burns all over his body

6. Also in Rann Thanagar war tanking the blasts of the Thanagarian god who could easily take down Black Adam, Jay Garrick ( his magical use of Nth metal actually peeled away Jays's speed force protection from friction)

A few PIS low showings can't discount the majority that aren't

Here we have pre 52 Hawkman

  1. Stating on panel it enhances his healing.
  2. Strong enough because of it to tear metal doors of cars
  3. That isn't even counting the sight enhancement that allowed him to see Hawkgirl for miles.

Now lest see, since I have 10 marksman who are at the very least as good ( due to hyperkenisis better) than Bullseye who can additionally see for miles I can realistically set them up on roof tops on the far side of the city ( should I choose to) and take your entire team out without ever being in your range to even see ( let alone hit). That also means I have no issues what so ever knowing exactly when to detonate any traps.

For the record I was not using the full body Nth metal armor. I never mentioned it in my strategy anywhere as i knew it would be completely unfair. I was just showing what I could claim with current nth metal ( and was not). The healing attributes of Nth metal have been standard fro quite a few decades now. As have the much greater powers that can be wielded with Nth metal with the right knowledge.

That's a pre 52 scan from the Rann Thanagar war where it shows with the right knowledge someone wielding Nth metal controls all four fundermental forces of the universe. Since Neither Carter or Sheira ( who are a LOT more experienced with the metal than anyone on my team) even know how to use this none of my platoon will either. The aspects of gravity control and healing however are simple bi-products of it's mental interactive nature. I've not tried to imply that my team members will be mentally generating cosmic level blasts or any of the other powers that I would require greater knoweldge than I possess to wield. Simply the base level healing, anti gravity/gravity control, strength, and durability that the metal gives to all who wield it

Equipment

  • Nth Metal Enhancement: The metal is psycho-reactive, responding to its bearer's thoughts and in its base form has a number of electromagnetic/gravitational properties.
  • Enhanced Strength: Carter's strength level is increased by the Nth metal. Carter is capable of ripping a car door of its hinges with little effort.
  • Enhanced Durability: Hawkman is able to withstand blows from superhuman opponents as powerful as Black Adam.
  • Enhanced Vision: Hawkman can observe objects at great distances or at speeds faster than can be perceived by the normal eye. He once spotted Flash vibrating through a wall before he was visible. He can also count the flapping of a hummingbird's wings.
  • Accelerated Healing
  • Self-Sustenance

Taken From Here, Supported by here, More can be found here, here and here. The nature of it's healing abiliites is far from new and the same is true for it allowing the wearer to tank things well above "street level" dangers like Black Adam and the matter manipulation of

Let's not forget all my team is linked mentally ( courtesy of mini cerebro) to the genius that is Number 6. They are also therefore linked to the faster mental processing power of Max. Once a single one of my platoon experience something knew with the Nth metal the two combined will ensure all know how to make the most effective use of it.

#15 Edited by DireDrill (2434 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Sorry this took so long but I had work all weekend and on top of that I was in a small car crash. I am okay but as you can imagine it took a good chunk of time to deal with.

Before we move forward, I believe a ruling on Nth Metal Harnesses is needed. Though I am the tourney creator, I thankfully have awesome judges that can be called upon to rule in situations where my own bias may be at issue. To that end, I need one of you to provide a ruling here based upon what you think fits better for the tourney, pre-52 Nth Metal Harnesses or New 52 Nth Metal Bonding. In the event that they rule that you have pre-52 Nth Metal Harnesses, you may edit your post and I will delete this one. @esquire, @dextersinister, @jokergeist, @thedarklordpandamonium

#16 Posted by Dextersinister (5688 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: @diredrill: First of all I don't see how the team could access the full body version considering Hawkman didn't access it until the end of his run with great difficulty and even if it was accessible it would be game breaking.

Online
#17 Posted by beatboks1 (6949 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: hope your ok. no rush, like I said I'll probably have to drop out anyway. currently on hols with the family and only on iphone

#18 Edited by Esquire (3826 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: @diredrill: Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Dex. Full Body Nth armor is a lot more valuable than any of the other Strategic Reserves. I was picturing the Harnesses as somewhere around the same level as Techno-Organic wings.

#19 Posted by DireDrill (2434 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: @esquire: Thanks for your input. I am glad that I had people who could render a judgement in this case.

@beatboks1: Given the general consensus, New 52 Nth Metal is out. Feel free to make whatever edits to your post you see fit.

#23 Posted by beatboks1 (6949 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: Are we still doing this. Are you OK??