WT 2.0: Sovereign vs PrimeZ0ne(VOTE!)

Welcome To: "The World Tournament": Read OP First!!!!!!

Midlevel & Streetlevel Characters

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Rules: Please Read, New Rules Implemented

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VOTING SCORING SYSTEM: (Please Read)

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Sovereign: X-Factor

• Havok (1)
• Dazzler (3)
• Spiral (3)
• Psylocke (4)

Gallery

Perks -10

• +1 Character Points -2
• Mayday's Spider Sense (Psylocke)-3
• Morals Off + Teamwork -3
• Full Wiki Knowledge (2)

VS.

PrimeZone: Team Xtreme

Battlefield:

Map is 50miles x 50miles x 50miles.

Each side of the map is even in distance & length.

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Population 2,000: 1,000 people on each side of the map.

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DO NOT cross the black line during prep in any form, you may attempt to see what your competitor is doing. Your competitor's college lab, walmart, or homedepot will be considered "off site". Bringing their set up tools or what they build into the battlefield or travel time, to and from their offsite setup is a non issue.

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General Population Description: Medieval Times, armed with Medieval Weapons.

Only the men are armed, women & children are unarmed. There is a good even mix of men, women, and children. Any form of super powers will be considered divine miracles or witchcraft by the people, depending on what they are. They only know that there are "strange folk" about. They have limited to almost no info on your teams or what they are up to. The men & women are college athlete level in stats and have fodder solider level combat skills.

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Animal & Plant Life:

European Countryside Level, no real predators outside of some birds. Biggest animals are the cows & horses. Basically think LOTR type of town.

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Deadline: 2 Weeks August 27th

Alright, check to make sure everything looks good, have fun!!! @primez0ne vs @sovereign91001

@sovereign91001 Could you go first?

@lukehero Cool map

@primez0ne: Sure.

Intro

Havok- The younger (and in this viner's opinion) cooler Summers brother. A natural born leader (much like both of his brothers), he has the power to absorb generate plasma energy for a number of purposes, the most well known is his ability to discharge them in blasts which are usually depicted as travelling in concentric circles.

Dazzler- Longtime X-Men character, Dazzler has the ability to take sound (any sound except her voice) and transform it into light (both hard and soft), she uses that ability for numerous applications. She also apparently has one of the most beautiful singing voices in the Marvel Universe.

Spiral - Hailing from the Mojoverse and noted for her six arms. Spiral has the ability to harness magic, she uses her spells through dance and gesture rather than incantation. She is a master swordsman, expert geneticist and a robotics expert. More often foe than ally of the X-Men.

Psylocke- Betsy has telepathy and telekinesis, she can form psychic weapons (including her signature Psy knife) and is an accomplished fighter, swordsman and master ninja.

Prep

Fairly simple prep this time around, Dazzler will go around town soaking up sound, raising her battle potential.

Betsy will spy on your team with her telepathy and form a psilink between everyone so there all aware of what's going on.

Spiral will open a portal super close to the sun and Havok will get take a local sundip, he should get a very nice boost to his powers.

That'll end my prep.

Since my team has full knowledge here's what I'll need from you prior to making my next post:

• The range of Mimic's ability to mimic powers
• Whether or not your team has any particular mental resistance/shielding against telepathy.
• The range of Vertigo's powers

@sovereign91001

Intro

Mimic

Mimic(earth 12) was the leader of the Exiles until he died and one of the best heroes from his earth. He has the ability to copy any 5 superpowers he wants even non-mutant as long as they are near him at half power. Right before he died he had the powers of Cyclops, Wolverine,Colossus, Northstar, and Deadpool.

Vertigo

Vertigo is a Mutate from the Savage land who has the power to disorient her foes. She ends up battling the xmen multiple as a notable member of the Marauders.

Prep

During Prep Vertigo will give Mimic a communicator to allow them to constantly keep in contact.

Mimic will stay near Vertigo for an hour while also testing out her powers,Psionic Equilibrium Distortion/Spider Sense, on some unsuspecting townspeople so he can get a handle on her powers. After an hour he should be able to keep the powers for a long term of time and can trade out Deadpool's powers for Vertigo's. After that he will use Northstar's flight to go gain elevation and figure out where your team is.

Since my team has full knowledge here's what I'll need from you prior to making my next post:

• The range of Mimic's ability to mimic powers
• Whether or not your team has any particular mental resistance/shielding against telepathy.
• The range of Vertigo's powers

• I don't know but for now I will say eyesight range
• Mimic can copy Psylocke's powers and has stated to have residual psychic abilities from Jean Grey
  • @lukehero Does Vertigo get Batman's telepathy resistance feats?
• About eyesight too

I will wait for your next post for me to post my strategy unless you want me to do that before you.

@primez0ne: Hmm, from what I remember from Exiles his range was limited to about 10 feet, I'm pretty sure it wasn't everything in sight because I remember the copying potency fading as distance increased between him and the copyee. Do you have any feats of him duping powers outside of that range?

Also you can't copy perk powers so he shouldn't get the Spider-Sense. In any event let's move on.

The Plan.

The plan is pretty simple this time using Betsy's Telepathy I'll put both of your characters to sleep. Distance isn't an issue as she can project her telepathy over large distances.

Should that fail I'll move in with step two.

Spiral will prepare a knockout spell, she'll then teleport and hit Mimic with it, if he's flying in the air still, gravity will take over and he'll die. If not Spiral will plant a sword in his head and he'll die that way. Spiral teleport range is for all intents and purposes unlimited, she can 'port pretty much anywhere she desires.

Spiral can fly with little issue as well.

Onto the spell.

Unless Mimic has resistance to magic that should be it for him. However should all that fail I have a few other things my team can do, I'll discuss them if the need should arise but for now Spiral and Betsy should be able to handle this fight.

@sovereign91001:

The younger (and in this viner's opinion) cooler Summers brother.

Not off to a good start

@primez0ne: Umm, no you just get Batman's H2H skills and reflexes, and stuff.

@sovereign91001:

Hmm, from what I remember from Exiles his range was limited to about 10 feet, I'm pretty sure it wasn't everything in sight because I remember the copying potency fading as distance increased between him and the copyee. Do you have any feats of him duping powers outside of that range?

I won't discuss this right now since I don't think his range of copying will make a huge difference in this debate but we can later if this issue does come up

Also you can't copy perk powers so he shouldn't get the Spider-Sense. In any event let's move on.

I can as long it is not on a clone. Luke has said that I can in the main thread for this on the first page comment 23

The plan is pretty simple this time using Betsy's Telepathy I'll put both of your characters to sleep. Distance isn't an issue as she can project her telepathy over large distances.

Mimic should be able to close the distance to Betsy at the very start of the match considering he has half of Northstar's speed which he has stated is half the speed of light. Although for the tournament he is capped at mach 5. He would probably know who she is from working with the Xmen and know what

He is also capable of speedblitzing anyone on your team

Even with Spider sense I doubt Betsy can keep up with someone who can speed blitz Sabretooth(Age of Apocalypse) while hitting her with vertigo's powers and can oneshot her with a eye-blasts, decapitation, or at least 30 ton strength.

Spiral will prepare a knockout spell, she'll then teleport and hit Mimic with it, if he's flying in the air still, gravity will take over and he'll die. If not Spiral will plant a sword in his head and he'll die that way. Spiral teleport range is for all intents and purposes unlimited, she can 'port pretty much anywhere she desires.

His superior reaction speed plus spider sense would enable him to most likely react to her and oneshot her with a eyeblast

Can't blame a guy for trying

Unless Mimic has resistance to magic that should be it for him. However should all that fail I have a few other things my team can do, I'll discuss them if the need should arise but for now Spiral and Betsy should be able to handle this fight.

Right now I highly doubt Dazzler or Havok have the firepower or speed needed to actually put down Mimic but you can always try prove me wrong

@primez0ne: I'll most likely be off tommorow so you'll have a response sometime on Saturday.

@sovereign91001: OK

@primez0ne

I won't discuss this right now since I don't think his range of copying will make a huge difference in this debate but we can later if this issue does come up

That's fine.

I can as long it is not on a clone. Luke has said that I can in the main thread for this on the first page comment 23

Fair.

Mimic should be able to close the distance to Betsy at the very start of the match considering he has half of Northstar's speed which he has stated is half the speed of light. Although for the tournament he is capped at mach 5.

This premise is flawed and although a speed blitz is a legit tactic, it isn't here for a few reasons, the first and most pressing is distance. We have 50 miles between us, at Mach 5 (~1.05 miles per second) it'll take you about fifty seconds to close the distance between us and launch any kind of attack, that is far in excess of any time my team will need to prepare attack or defense, let's go down the line.

Speedblitz counter: Psylocke

It's been established that it'll take you almost a whole minute to get to my position for a character who has (thus far) shown zero telepathic defense this is an excessive amount of time for Betsy to put him to sleep, in a matter of seconds she's been able to bypass Gateway's mind, hold onto his dying psyche and forciably activate his powers, she's been able to puppet people in seconds, put them to sleep etc, etc. Even with psychic defenses she's been able to circumvent or break them down fairly easily. Telepathic probing is usually a gentle process and powerful telepaths have to proceed with caution; lest they cause brain damage, however since Betsy has no morals in this encounter so if she needs to she can break Mimic's mind if need be.

Gallery

Gallery

In order; puppetting a man almost instantly and easily breaking through psi defenses (last set is out of order)

I've seen no reason why this won't work but I'll cover some other possibilities. But before I do I'd like to go over Spider Senses.

Even with Spider sense I doubt Betsy can keep up with someone who can speed blitz Sabretooth(Age of Apocalypse) while hitting her with vertigo's powers and can oneshot her with a eye-blasts, decapitation, or at least 30 ton strength.

Mimic's spider sense (Peter's) has a weakness I'm not sure if you are aware of, namely other beings with Spider Sense don't trip it, this was the case with Ben, Kaine, Ezekiel and if memory serves Miles Morales as well. May's spider sense (the one I bought for Betsy) has no such limitation; Peter, Kaine and Darkdevil have all triggered her Spider-Sense, in different occasions let me know if you'd like more scans, I have them but didn't feel like digging them out unless I need to.

Gallery

That means my Spider Sense will sense your attacks but not the other way around. Since my team is plugged into each other through a psi connection and you've made Betsy your priority target when her spider sense tingles, everyone on my team will know it and be able to do what they need too.

If the telepathy somehow failed and Spiral did as well Betsy still has her TK to fall back on. She can simply stop Mimic in mid air and by using May's superior spider sense and TP she can aim exactly wherever she needs too. 30 tons is good but Betsy's been able to match Rogue's strength (at least 50 tons) with her TK.

TK can and has blocked Optic Blasts as well (I have scans of Jean doing so easily at your request).

His superior reaction speed plus spider sense would enable him to most likely react to her and oneshot her with a eyeblast

Spiral

Spiral can sense and manipulate almost every type of energy with her magic as you can see against Firestar, she's done it to Rachel Grey, Magneto and others.

she can intercept foes with super speed

and lastly her Spells are AOE which have traditonally been one of the best ways to tag people with Spider Sense. Spiral will also only engage if Betsy has failed to put down Mimic, if he's fighting Betsy on the astral plane (assuming he can) his effectiveness is going to be reduced trying to tag Spiral.

Havok

Right now I highly doubt Dazzler or Havok have the firepower or speed needed to actually put down Mimic but you can always try prove me wrong

This imo feels a bit indulgent because I don't think either is needed atm but I'll bite. Just as a reminder Dazzler and Havok have both been spending the past two hours amping themselves, Havok via the Sun portal and Dazz via the hustle and bustle of the city.

Let's start with baseline Havok. I'll note Alex tends to hold his powers back a lot, they're one of the more destructive abilities out there and he's not one to kill or maim usually.

however since he doesn't have morals he'll have no problem going all out, so I can use of his more powerful feats if I need too.

As for reactions, they don't really matters he has almost a whole minute to prepare a blast of energy and a heads up of when he needs to fire it if he had to as well.

Now at this point you may be saying to yourself well Mimic has Cyclops powers and ole Slim is immune to Alex's powers (as Alex is immune to Scott's) so ha! Well Mimic has half of Cyclops' powers so it'd stand to reason he has half of Scott's resistance to Havok (assuming Earth-12 has a Havok and Scott is resistant to him as well). Well I've got that angle covered also, here is what a sundipped Havok was capable of doing to someone who was partially resistant to his powers

He's repeated that feat when he drained a living star (Hodinn) of it's solar energies as well, he's even been able to stand up to the Hulk by draining his energies. I'll point out that Havok only sundipped for a few minutes in those scans, he's had two hours to soak up the juice, he should be measurably more powerful, he'd likely be able to one shot.

Dazzler

Moving on to Dazz, she may not have the raw power Havok does but she can do lot's of stuff with her powers, including force fields, flight and about a dozen other things. She's no slouch though, here she is knocking an AU Thor on his ass after she soaked up some juice.

Much like Alex though she's been soaking up sound for two hours, she should be ready to rock (no pun intended) and her higher end showings should let her tumble with Mimic who has half of Colossus durability, Dazz has been able to knock over the 616 version in a training exercise before. She can also just concentrate the photons in an ultra tight laser and drill a hole through Mimic.

Again reactions shouldn't matter but Alison can shift her reactions to higher speeds if need be, it's one of the more uncommon things she can do with her powers.

Closing point

And even if everything else I talked about failed there's more, every member of my team is capable of generating powerful shields, if they have to defend they could do so easily (feats available if need be) . At this point though I don't see why I have to use Havok and Dazz, or any defensive options, Psylocke and Spiral should be more than you can handle.

@sovereign91001:

This premise is flawed and although a speed blitz is a legit tactic, it isn't here for a few reasons, the first and most pressing is distance. We have 50 miles between us, at Mach 5 (~1.05 miles per second) it'll take you about fifty seconds to close the distance between us and launch any kind of attack, that is far in excess of any time my team will need to prepare attack or defense, let's go down the line.

It is highly unlikely that either of our teams will be at the opposite sides of the map since the distance between any two sides of the map is 50 miles all together not 50 miles on each side. Mimic edging the line on his side will halve that to 25 miles. If Betsy doesn't decide to stand as far away as she possibly can which she probably won't on her side the distance will be shortened further. Your team will probably want to stay within a mile or two near the border too to quickly engage my team.

It's been established that it'll take you almost a whole minute to get to my position for a character who has (thus far) shown zero telepathic defense this is an excessive amount of time for Betsy to put him to sleep, in a matter of seconds she's been able to bypass Gateway's mind, hold onto his dying psyche and forciably activate his powers, she's been able to puppet people in seconds, put them to sleep etc, etc. Even with psychic defenses she's been able to circumvent or break them down fairly easily. Telepathic probing is usually a gentle process and powerful telepaths have to proceed with caution; lest they cause brain damage, however since Betsy has no morals in this encounter so if she needs to she can break Mimic's mind if need be.

MImic will take way less than a minute to get to Betsy and she will only have at best a second or two.

If the telepathy somehow failed and Spiral did as well Betsy still has her TK to fall back on. She can simply stop Mimic in mid air and by using May's superior spider sense and TP she can aim exactly wherever she needs too. 30 tons is good but Betsy's been able to match Rogue's strength (at least 50 tons) with her TK.

Rogue neither has the reaction speed nor other powers that Mimic has and that was only a training session where Rogue would not be going all out. Add this to Vertigo's powers which have shown to be able to make a whole groups of people including the Xmen fall Psylocke would have a hard time reacting to Mimic

Vertigo herself can also disorient your team further to slow your team down and allow Mimic to finish them off

TK can and has blocked Optic Blasts as well (I have scans of Jean doing so easily at your request)

Can you post scans of Psylocke doing this? If you can that would be great

and lastly her Spells are AOE which have traditonally been one of the best ways to tag people with Spider Sense. Spiral will also only engage if Betsy has failed to put down Mimic, if he's fighting Betsy on the astral plane (assuming he can) his effectiveness is going to be reduced trying to tag Spiral.

Your team's effectiveness itself will be greatly lowered by both Mimic and Vertigo disorienting your team and can you tell me why Mimic will try to battle with Psylocke on the astral plane instead of quickly taking her out first?

His spidersense would still work on your other teammates

Now at this point you may be saying to yourself well Mimic has Cyclops powers and ole Slim is immune to Alex's powers (as Alex is immune to Scott's) so ha! Well Mimic has half of Cyclops' powers so it'd stand to reason he has half of Scott's resistance to Havok (assuming Earth-12 has a Havok and Scott is resistant to him as well). Well I've got that angle covered also, here is what a sundipped Havok was capable of doing to someone who was partially resistant to his powers

Vulcan has neither Mimic's Durability nor speed so if need be he can just power through his blasts to hit Havok if needed

Gallery

Much like Alex though she's been soaking up sound for two hours, she should be ready to rock (no pun intended) and her higher end showings should let her tumble with Mimic who has half of Colossus durability, Dazz has been able to knock over the 616 version in a training exercise before. She can also just concentrate the photons in an ultra tight laser and drill a hole through Mimic.

Neither Dazzler nor Havok have a chance to tag Mimic. They will be dizzy from the powers he got from Vertigo plus Vertigo herself and their speed/spidersense will allow Mimic to close the distance quickly.

And even if everything else I talked about failed there's more, every member of my team is capable of generating powerful shields, if they have to defend they could do so easily (feats available if need be) . At this point though I don't see why I have to use Havok and Dazz, or any defensive options, Psylocke and Spiral should be more than you can handle.

Both Psylocke and Spiral will have a hard time keeping up with Mimic due to his speed and Vertigo's powers. Your team will have a hard enough time keeping up with Mimic with alone but with Vertigo's powers your team would have a hard time just moving.

So far you have not shown how your team will survive even one punch from Mimic,or dodge him while feeling the effects of Vertigo's powers.

Can this be my second to last post?

@sovereign91001: @primez0ne: Friendly Bump.

@primez0ne:

It is highly unlikely that either of our teams will be at the opposite sides of the map since the distance between any two sides of the map is 50 miles all together not 50 miles on each side

Obviously, that's why I didn't indicate anything about 100 miles or that it'd take Mimic ~100 seconds to clear the map. I actually asked @lukehero about starting distance and here is what he said:

Mimic edging the line on his side will halve that to 25 miles.

This is the first time 'edging the line' has been brought up but okay. Let's assume you start off on the line, my team is starting at the furthest distance possible, which is twenty five miles. Now even at reduced distance and flying at a constant speed of Mach 5, which leaves me about 25 seconds, you still can't reach me before I whammied you, I've shown Betsy doing this in a fraction of the time

If Betsy doesn't decide to stand as far away as she possibly can which she probably won't on her side the distance will be shortened further. Your team will probably want to stay within a mile or two near the border too to quickly engage my team.

That's wishful thinking on your part, I have absolutely no reason to start closer to the line and it no way serves as any advantage to my team to do so, I've indicated that my team will be attacking from across the map and in fact that they haven't moved at all actually.

MImic will take way less than a minute to get to Betsy and she will only have at best a second or two.

What exactly supports that, your maximum speed is capped at 3,806 mph, that is (as I said in my previous post) ~1.05 miles per second given that you have 25 miles to cross, there is no way in hell you can cross that distance in one or two seconds, it is literally impossible. The only chance you'd have for a two second speed blitz is if I decided to stand on the other side of the dividing line and attack you, which isn't happening.

Vertigo herself can also disorient your team further to slow your team down and allow Mimic to finish them off

Vertigo is a non factor, she has no way to close the distance to attack with Mimic, can't keep up with him and according to you she can attack within eyesight, while my team is chilling out twenty five miles away.

Rogue neither has the reaction speed nor other powers that Mimic has

What does that have to do with anything? You claimed 30 tons I showed 50 and you bring up something about speed and additional powers in fact I even reference what that scan was before I posted it.

and that was only a training session where Rogue would not be going all out.

Ah the strength of the showing didn't convince you? Okay let's go a bit larger then. How about blowing a collapsed building off of her and the other X-Men?

Or supporting a Plane

Add this to Vertigo's powers which have shown to be able to make a whole groups of people including the Xmen fall Psylocke would have a hard time reacting to Mimic

Again with the reaction time...you don't seem to understand, I have twenty five seconds to react to you, you can't surprise my team because we'll know where you're coming from and how long we have, although I've gone over this point already.

Can you post scans of Psylocke doing this? If you can that would be great

I'll do you one better, I'll show Betsy defending from a variety of energy attacks with TK.

Easily splits a beam in half with her TK.

Bounces a beam back into space (with Rachel).

She's even disrupted energy with her TK so no problem, it won't come to this, Mimic would be out of the equation far faster than he can get into visual range.

Your team's effectiveness itself will be greatly lowered by both Mimic and Vertigo disorienting your team and can you tell me why Mimic will try to battle with Psylocke on the astral plane instead of quickly taking her out first?

He can try as quickly as he wants, and unless he's not trying to defend himself (yay?) she would be engaging him through her telepathy, most telepathic combat takes place on the physical and astral planes.

His spidersense would still work on your other teammates

None of my other team is attacking unless Betsy fails which you have failed to show why she would, so your spider sense is still useless in the context of a fight against Betsy, which is the context I brought that point up in the first place, you'll notice I said nothing about my other teammates being undetected.

Vulcan has neither Mimic's Durability

Arguable but irrelevant, the point of the showing was to show that Alex can overcome resistance to his powers.

nor speed

Also irrelevant, Alex can (and has) projected large scale Plasma, I can simply widen the area and hit you regardless. Plasma moves at lightspeed which is also capped at Mach 5 here so it's a non issue.

so if need be he can just power through his blasts to hit Havok if needed

Cool, I get a chance to use some more Havok scans to disprove that point. But before I do I want to address the statement that he was in a room of fire and 'didn't feel it'.

First I can't or seemingly enlarge your scans so they're stuck at about the size of a thumbnail, but second let's say that is the case, Havok's plasma has often been compared to a star, we're talking about a whole different level of heat than anything Mimic has ever experienced a room fire doesn't compare. For the following showings please keep in mind that this is base level Havok.

First off, secondary heat from Havok's energy is enough to fuse the ground around him into glass

Next; Havok melts secondary Adamantium at the Weapon + facility in Canada

Next Havok fights an uber AU Captain America and...well this set speaks for itself.

As impressive as that is, for this match Havok's powers have been amped several times over, you'd be one shot, Mimic doesn't have anywhere close to the durability to tank that.

Both Psylocke and Spiral will have a hard time keeping up with Mimic due to his speed and Vertigo's powers. Your team will have a hard enough time keeping up with Mimic with alone but with Vertigo's powers your team would have a hard time just moving.

You can't get close enough to use Vertigo's powers, that whole argument is pointless, should you prove you can then I'll reveal my strategy to deal with Vertigo's powers/

So far you have not shown how your team will survive even one punch from Mimic,or dodge him while feeling the effects of Vertigo's powers.

None of this is required at the time, you've yet to show how you're even going to manage to close the distance for any of this to become a factor in the first place. At this point I'd just be needlessly tipping my hand.

Can this be my second to last post?

Sure, go ahead and make your final post.

Post 3 Closer

• Mimic can't close distance (25 miles) faster than Betsy can whammy him let alone in one or two seconds.
• My team has 25 seconds to prepare to take out Mimic at his top speed.
• He has no defense against Betsy putting him and Vertigo to sleep at the start of the match.
• Vertigo has no way to close any distance to become a factor in this battle before it's over.
• Should defense be implemented, Betsy and Spiral will attack together, between the two Mimic is down.
• My team has shields to defend and energy projection far and above needed to one shot Mimic in any event.

@sovereign91001:

Obviously, that's why I didn't indicate anything about 100 miles or that it'd take Mimic ~100 seconds to clear the map. I actually asked @lukehero about starting distance and here is what he said:

OK

This is the first time 'edging the line' has been brought up but okay. Let's assume you start off on the line, my team is starting at the furthest distance possible, which is twenty five miles. Now even at reduced distance and flying at a constant speed of Mach 5, which leaves me about 25 seconds, you still can't reach me before I whammied you, I've shown Betsy doing this in a fraction of the time

An evil AU Professor Xavier had tried to TP Mimic but Mimic was able to kill Xavier in Exiles #2 so I think he can hold on long enough to kill Psylocke. This is a version of Xavier was powerful enough to mind wipe everyone in a 5 mile radius of him so in terms of strength he is definitively more powerful than Psylocke.

That's wishful thinking on your part, I have absolutely no reason to start closer to the line and it no way serves as any advantage to my team to do so, I've indicated that my team will be attacking from across the map and in fact that they haven't moved at all actually.

Mimic can still reach you and Psylocke is the only one you have shown to be able to do this.

What exactly supports that, your maximum speed is capped at 3,806 mph, that is (as I said in my previous post) ~1.05 miles per second given that you have 25 miles to cross, there is no way in hell you can cross that distance in one or two seconds, it is literally impossible. The only chance you'd have for a two second speed blitz is if I decided to stand on the other side of the dividing line and attack you, which isn't happening.

I meant in middle of combat not the time it would take to get to your location that Psylocke can be dropped in a few seconds because of Mimic's claws and speed/vertigo powers.

I concede it would take him 25 sec to reach your team.

Vertigo is a non factor, she has no way to close the distance to attack with Mimic, can't keep up with him and according to you she can attack within eyesight, while my team is chilling out twenty five miles away.

Mimic can just retreat after dealing with Psylocke and Spiral to retrieve Vertigo and sent her down at a safe distance. Also remember that Mimic still has Vertigo's powers and you have not countered him messing up Psylocke and the rest of your team with it to slow their reaction times in combat.

What does that have to do with anything? You claimed 30 tons I showed 50 and you bring up something about speed and additional powers in fact I even reference what that scan was before I posted it.

I just meant that Mimic would not be able to be handled like that but that scan was still impressive.

I'll do you one better, I'll show Betsy defending from a variety of energy attacks with TK.

Ok

He can try as quickly as he wants, and unless he's not trying to defend himself (yay?) she would be engaging him through her telepathy, most telepathic combat takes place on the physical and astral planes.

Betsy will be too busy using her TK to survive for a few extra seconds to properly use her TP to combat Mimic who will be overwhelming her with his speed and vertigo powers that he has.

The downside of her new powers is that the strength of her telepathic and telekinetic powers depend on how much she is using the other. Using two powers at once makes it hard for her to focus and lowers their level of power. For instance if she is using her telekinesis, her telepathy is limited to only reading and broadcasting thoughts and at the tiime, she is unable utilize her other telepathic skills. Aside from this, her previous resistance to both reality manipulation and telepathy seemed to tarnish after the Red Queen's manipulation and she can now be detected by electronic devices.

This was stated in her wiki and unless you show on panel evidence showing that this is not true, she will be unable to use her telekinesis and telepathy to her fullness.

Vertigo has been able to stop Rogue herself cold in her tracks with her powers

Half of this is more than enough for Mimic to gain a huge advantage in battle and quickly decapitate Psylocke with his metal claws.

None of my other team is attacking unless Betsy fails which you have failed to show why she would, so your spider sense is still useless in the context of a fight against Betsy, which is the context I brought that point up in the first place, you'll notice I said nothing about my other teammates being undetected

You yourself have failed to show how she will properly react to Mimic who is at the max speed limit and is disorienting Betsy so her own reaction time will be at the least halved. Past the initial attack she will drop quickly because of this even with Spider sense.

Are you talking about failing in TPing Mimic or in their battle?

Arguable but irrelevant, the point of the showing was to show that Alex can overcome resistance to his powers

It is not irrelevant when Havok, who was amped, hit Vulcan several times and still had not KOed him. Mimic in contrast has taken hits from Namor and king Hyperion.

His regenerative factor too would add to his durability

Gallery

Also irrelevant, Alex can (and has) projected large scale Plasma, I can simply widen the area and hit you regardless. Plasma moves at lightspeed which is also capped at Mach 5 here so it's a non issue.

As you said Havok will wait till Psylocke is down to actually attack. Mimic has spider sense so he can sense Havok's attacks before they happen then dodge them. You have admitted Mimic is capable of moving a mile in a sec so this is very possible.

Just because his attacks move at light speed does not mean he can. Mimic can simply one shot him before Havok can react. Him using Vertigo's powers would not even be needed.

First I can't or seemingly enlarge your scans so they're stuck at about the size of a thumbnail, but second let's say that is the case, Havok's plasma has often been compared to a star, we're talking about a whole different level of heat than anything Mimic has ever experienced a room fire doesn't compare. For the following showings please keep in mind that this is base level Havok.

First off, secondary heat from Havok's energy is enough to fuse the ground around him into glass

Next; Havok melts secondary Adamantium at the Weapon + facility in Canada

Next Havok fights an uber AU Captain America and...well this set speaks for itself.

Havok's powers have been amped several times over, you'd be one shot, Mimic doesn't have anywhere close to the durability to tank that.

Sorry on the scans. If you want me to I can repost them later

Mimic has tanked heat comparable to Havok's before when he battles king Hyperion

King Hyperion's heat vision was powerful enough to turn a wolverine into just a skeleton

To finish off on this point the most powerful blasts you have shown for Havok can just be tanked by Mimic long enough for Mimic to oneshot him with his speed.

You can't get close enough to use Vertigo's powers, that whole argument is pointless, should you prove you can then I'll reveal my strategy to deal with Vertigo's powers/

Whatever you want

Post 3 Closer

• Mimic can't close distance (25 miles) faster than Betsy can whammy him let alone in one or two seconds.

• My team has 25 seconds to prepare to take out Mimic at his top speed.

• He has no defense against Betsy putting him and Vertigo to sleep at the start of the match.

• Vertigo has no way to close any distance to become a factor in this battle before it's over.

• Should defense be implemented, Betsy and Spiral will attack together, between the two Mimic is down.

• My team has shields to defend and energy projection far and above needed to one shot Mimic in any event.

• He can
• Mimic just has to overwhelm Betsy to keep him from doing that
• Mimic can retrieve her after he finishes Betsy and Spiral
• Both are getting hit with his Vertigo powers so neither of them will be able to properly react to him and Mimic can use his Spider Sense to know if Spiral is porting in on him.
• You have only shown shields for Psylocke who you have not shown using in combat

You have failed to counter

• Mimic using Vertigo's powers to reduce your team's reaction speed and using his metal claws to kill Psylocke then Spiral.
• After retrieving Vertigo and dropping her off at a safe distance, Mimic speed blitzes Havok and Dazzler since you have not shown that they have the reaction speed to keep up with Mimic.
• Even without Vertigo he can still finish off your team by himself

Can you also explain to me how Spiral opens a portal capable of releasing the sun's energies without said energy killing her.

@sovereign91001: @primez0ne: Bump.

I'll have something up on Sunday at the latest.

@sovereign91001: Cool.

@sovereign91001: OK

@primez0ne: @sovereign91001: Bump

tag me for votes, please. I like these teams

Sure

@primez0ne:

Final Post.

An evil AU Professor Xavier had tried to TP Mimic but Mimic was able to kill Xavier in Exiles #2 so I think he can hold on long enough to kill Psylocke.

That's false, in Exiles 1 he stated that he had residual TP at the time from mimicing Jean (which you don't have) and that Xavier one shot him in Exiles 1, he didn't recover either by the end of that issue.

He literally showed zero telepathic defense in that fight.

The only time in issue when he showed any telepathic defense was after he had acquired telepathic disrupters from Forge (which you don't have here).

And in their final showdown it looked to me like he copied Xavier's TP as you can see psychic energy emanating from his head

If that's your best showing that confirms what I've been saying this whole time. Let's put it like this, Mimic doesn't have the TP resistance to continously fight Betsy off for 25 seconds, in fact given what I've seen there's no reason she doesn't put him down instantly. Game. Set. Match.

This is a version of Xavier was powerful enough to mind wipe everyone in a 5 mile radius of him so in terms of strength he is definitively more powerful than Psylocke.

Really, I'm curious how much you know about Psylocke's telepathic strength to make such a claim? In any event that isn't the case, telepathic duels are rarely a matter of brute force, this has been elaborated by Jean, Xavier, Emma and Rachel all at various times across X-Men publications, probably the one everyone in the know uses to demonstrate that point is this one

In any event Betsy (well before she became an Omega Level Telepath) managed to beat the Shadow King in astral combat after he enslaved the entire planet. She has multiple fights against telepathic resistant foes including Magneto, Juggernaut, an anti psychic S.H.I.E.L.D unit and even Nimrod and has been able to affect all of them with her telepathy fairly quickly all of which have better TP resistant feats than what Mimic has shown.

Let me be perfectly clear here; I don't need to show myself defending from anything really, your team has no psychic defense and should be out in the first few seconds, you have failed to prove otherwise, my original plan was to put them both to sleep and I've been a pretty good sport entertaining scenarios in which either of your team members have closed enough distance to make them threats but a the end of the day they can't. Here is how the match goes down, Betsy uses her TP to put Mimic and Vertigo to sleep together at the same time, neither of their spider sense helps them. Vertigo who has shown no defense is down and so is Mimic, if Mimic managed to resist at first he certainly doesn't have any feats that show he can resist Betsy for 25 seconds. Betsy solos.

Even if that wasn't the case, I had it so that Spiral would back Betsy, she can teleport and use a knockout spell (which I haven't seen any reason why that wouldn't work either). Spider sense is ineffective against AOE attacks as Spiral's spells are. Optic blasts (your inital counter) are useless against Spiral, as are Vertigo's powers as Spiral can even manipulate psionic energies as I have stated with her manipulating Phoenix's energies.

So blasting her out of the sky isn't an option, and while he's busy trying to do that to Spiral, he'll have to split his attention between that and Betsy trying to take him out, which if you know about telepathic combat, dividing your attention is going to let Betsy into his mind. The match is over.

And if that wasn't enough TK lets her hold Mimic aloft and he can't do well anything she can generate force well in excess of the force he can generate, Spider Sense will show her where to aim, in addition she can just crush his insides with TK

Although since morals are off she doesn't have to play around and go straight for a brain crush for an instant kill/ko.

The hogwash about Betsy not using shields in combat as some sort of legit counter is just that rebounding an attack would count as 'in battle' but here you go.

As is the notion that because Mimic tanking a heat vision blast from Hyperion (when there is no indication to how hot the blast is) is equal to another showing against Wolverine where he melts human flesh and that is somehow equal to the secondary heat off of Havok's plasma which has been able to fuse glass or the primary heat which has melted secondary adamantium of a Havok who is amped several times over from my strongest showings, it doesn't add up. (Human flesh has a much lower melting tempature than uber-metal or glass fyi and Wolverine's bones were unharmed in your scan). With Betsy aiming him with Spider-Sense and TP he could one-shot. Similar with Dazzler although I've shown less of her. The rest of the argument are points I feel I've covered already so I'm not going to rehash anymore. I will cover one last point though.

Can you also explain to me how Spiral opens a portal capable of releasing the sun's energies without said energy killing her.

1. Spiral is capable of opening portals not in her immediate vicinity, so she won't need to be affected by any energy output.

2. Even if this wasn't the case and Spiral needed to be directly in contact with a portal she opened, Havok can control his absorption around people not nearly as durable as he is as seen against the Hodinn (who the last time he let his energies off he destroyed an entire planet) so he can siphon off juice while she remains safe.

3. Spiral can make herself intangible so once again even if she had to touch the portal the energy wouldn't hurt her.

4. Spiral is capable of negating and manipulating large quantities of almost all known types of energy at any given time, as I mentioned a couple times in previous posts.

Pick whichever one you like the most, the result is the same.

@lukehero I'm ready for votes.

@sovereign91001: @primez0ne: Alright, Prime you ready for votes too?

I am ready for votes

@sovereign91001: @primez0ne: Make your tags.

Time for votes!!!!

Please leave a good reason for voting.

@wyldsong@cjdavis103@higorm@joygirl@beatboks1@killemall@lvenger@dextersinister@veitha@ssj_god@easternwind@fu-dog007@boschepg@nickzambuto@nickthedevil@thetruebarryallen@pr0metheus@iragexcudder@darkraiden@juiceboks@youngjustice@highaccuser@floopay@jmarshmallow@wolverine08@jashro44@frozen@cosmicallyaware1@deathhero61@sophia89@allstarsuperman@i_like_swords

@tparks@deathhero61@New_World_Order@keenko Can you guys read this and vote please

Bump

I want to vote for this, but I'm too tired tonight. Both of these guys are great debaters, so tag me tomorrow so I don't forget. :)

VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll vote let me jyst read the full op, once i get a chance pc. Damn phone keeps loading arggh

@lukehero:

I'm going with Primezone in this for the slight majority better use of his characters

@tparks: @jbourne_32@angryprune@deathhero61@New_World_Order@keenkoTagged

@cjdavis103: @fallingcliffs: Thanks.

Score.

@primez0ne: 3

@sovereign91001: 0

Sovereign because yo momma

@lukehero:

I'm voting sovereign. His use of the location and distance between the two teams was well thought out, and while there were a few counters from primezone to this, I think the argument of winning from a distance still stands at the end.

Great job from both, and a really great read. Two very good debaters here. :)

I'm going with Sovereign, I liked PrimeZ0ne's characters more, but I just feel like Sovereign highlighted his advantages better.

I'll vote Sovereign because he used the massive distance between the two and Psylocke's Telepathy to take down the main threat

Side Note:geez Havok is surprisingly powerful

@angryprune: @tparks@keenko@cjdavis103 Thanks for reading and voting!

@tparks: @keenko: @dextersinister: @angryprune: Thank you very much for the votes.

@fallingcliffs: Come back and vote for real if you got the time.

@dextersinister: -_- Leave a real reason.

@angryprune: @keenko: @tparks: Thank you for voting.

=============

Score

@primez0ne: 3 (Cjdavis 3)

@sovereign91001: 6 (9 total when dexter leaves a reason) (Tparks 2, Angryprune 1, Keenko 3) (3 points from Dexter pending)

@lukehero: PM effectively ceded the match when Sov provided new info on his opponents telepathic resistance and he failed to reply to it.

@dextersinister: Thank you.

Got to go with @sovereign91001. @primez0ne keep a good level of debate for the most part, but that until the TP issue comes into question, from where he couldn't prove his team could deal with it.

@primez0ne: @sovereign91001: @higorm:

With Dex and Higorm's vote.

It's 12-3 Sov winning.

Bump

I'll get to this one as well in a bit=)