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#1 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

Challenge a Viner

TheAcidSkull Vs Fernando072295REBORN

World War Hulk Vs Thor

Rules:

  • No BFR
  • No civilians
  • In character
  • standard equipment
  • Win By Death Or KO

THE VOTING IS NOW IN SESSION!

TheAcidSkull - 10 point

Fernando072295REBORN- 10 points

#2 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3226 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be interesting..I'll just watch.

#3 Posted by MrPhoenix (353 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be good, also loving the pic.

#4 Posted by dondave (38882 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be a good debate

#5 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh hello another TAS debate. Guy never stops. This should be interesting. What's the low down on the other guys debating skills? I haven't heard of him before.

#6 Posted by JonSmith (4010 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, this should be fun.

#7 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

Oh hello another TAS debate. Guy never stops. This should be interesting. What's the low down on the other guys debating skills? I haven't heard of him before.

;), well he is a major thor fan, makes videos for him on youtube all the time, and i'm sure he knows tons about him. :D

NOTHING CAN OR WILL STOP ME!

#8 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

Very nice. Okay then, I think as the challenger it's only fair you get the opening move. Go for it bro.

#9 Edited by name12345 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

EPIC RAP BATTLE OF HISTORY!!!!

TheAcidSkull..... VERSUS! FEEERNANDOOOijdsafliquweyro

BEGIN!

#10 Posted by asIsuspected (543 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheAcidSkull said: 

;), well he is a major thor fan, makes videos for him on youtube all the time, and i'm sure he knows tons about him. :D

NOTHING CAN OR WILL STOP ME!

  
#11 Posted by PsychoJack (174 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks interesting

#12 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@asIsuspected:lol that one was before I really knew how to use movie maker haha >_<

I remade it recently

#13 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

Acid decided to give me the first move. So I'll post something before going to sleep tonight:

Here we have two characters with advantages over the other. The Hulk possesses pretty much unparalleled strength. And It'll only increase with time. In addition, during the WWH mini series, he was healing at an in incredible rate. In addition, neither of these characters are hampered by the need to protect civilians around them. They'll cut loose as best they can, which for Thor, even in character, is something the Hulk isn't going to do well against.

The Hulk's always been a physical match for Thor, and with this amp, he' strong enough so that a melee will turn sour for Thor sooner than later. But Thor has so much more to call on than the strength of his arms.

First off, Thor has the insurmountable edge of flight. With it, he has no need whatsoever to be in the Hulk's range of attack. In addition, he can blitz at incredible speeds with it, producing incredible power:

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2893/tstrike0509.jpg

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2533/rsztstrike0510.jpg

^ That would be Mangog he just folded like a lawn chair.

to up the level a little, this blitz allows him to go straight through resurrected glory:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5855/chaoswarthor2019.jpg

and to amp it again, he runs through Galactus' head:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6950/21843252003794themighty.jpg

The Hulk will need to watch himself from being struck by attacks like this. Especially since there's no reason Thor needs to let him see from where the attack will be coming from.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3695/thormjolnir178stormv21.jpg

A storm at the beginning of the battle will give Hulk enough to worry about.

For now that's it. I'll get into more stuff tomorrow, since I'm exhausted. Looking forward to Skull's response.

#14 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fernando072295REBORN said:

Acid decided to give me the first move. So I'll post something before going to sleep tonight:

Here we have two characters with advantages over the other. The Hulk possesses pretty much unparalleled strength. And It'll only increase with time. In addition, during the WWH mini series, he was healing at an in incredible rate. In addition, neither of these characters are hampered by the need to protect civilians around them. They'll cut loose as best they can, which for Thor, even in character, is something the Hulk isn't going to do well against.

The Hulk's always been a physical match for Thor, and with this amp, he' strong enough so that a melee will turn sour for Thor sooner than later. But Thor has so much more to call on than the strength of his arms.

First off, Thor has the insurmountable edge of flight. With it, he has no need whatsoever to be in the Hulk's range of attack. In addition, he can blitz at incredible speeds with it, producing incredible power:

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2893/tstrike0509.jpg

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2533/rsztstrike0510.jpg

^ That would be Mangog he just folded like a lawn chair.

to up the level a little, this blitz allows him to go straight through resurrected glory:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5855/chaoswarthor2019.jpg

and to amp it again, he runs through Galactus' head:

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6950/21843252003794themighty.jpg

The Hulk will need to watch himself from being struck by attacks like this. Especially since there's no reason Thor needs to let him see from where the attack will be coming from.

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/3695/thormjolnir178stormv21.jpg

A storm at the beginning of the battle will give Hulk enough to worry about.

For now that's it. I'll get into more stuff tomorrow, since I'm exhausted. Looking forward to Skull's response.

Good Start ! LETS GET INTO IT!

1. first things first. The rules say that both are in character, and thor has never, EVER, used to keep his range against the hulk. He usually brawls with the green giant, and uses lighting. While thor is no doubt very strong, He is usually struggles against the savage hulk , and this is the strongest incarnation there has ever been. Now lest make a comparison. Savage hulk is not all that bright and skilled, yet he manages to fight thor head on without any trouble, with both sides ending the fight with a draw or with a slight advantage. And now you have a hulk, who is very very angry, and is far stronger than his savage version, who is also skilled enough to outsmart Captain america in a strategy, and has learned how to fight on sakaar.

2. Despite the effectiveness of Thors lighting, hulk will be able to not only tank it, but after a few shots he wil become more durable, and heal faster. Now of the examples of hulks awesome healing factor would be this:

Hulk heals from something that got stronger with his anger( thats what the hulk does best, he DEFIES LOGIC)

this should prove that hulk can heal faster and greater when he is angry, Carmilla Black injects hulk with a poison and after hulk gets mad he gets back right up.

So hulk will be able to heal from pretty much anything thor will throw at him. and also i'd also like to mention that hulk has taken thor lighting while he was weaker.

Tanking Thors lightning head on.

3. Again a strong is something Thor won't go with, i've seen every tho battle and Thor has never gone direly with a storm, he brawls. so i;m sure WWH could take thor.

Thats all for today :)

#15 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: Out of curiosity, what strategy has WWH ever outsmarted Cap in? Because if you're talking about the secret Avengers fight, Cap had places in the negative zone for each memeber of the Hulk family. Ultimately putting his strategy one step ahead of Hulk's.

Next, true enough Thor decides to brawl against the Hulk more often than not, but this isn't a comic book fight. And while in character means he won't be putting him a whirlwind and hitting with the power to bolster the walls of 1/4 of the multiverse, he'll be using his powers more adeptly than he would in a comic where he's generally neutered against the Hulk, in order for the fight to be fair. Meaning, the god of Thunder will use his absolute control of the storm. Especially in this environment where no civilians are in danger, he won't be worried about repeating this:

Thor literally only stopped because civilians were in danger. He has no need to stop in this case. and while chances are he can't drown the hulk, he will incapacitate him. Leaving him uselessly floating in the water and open for a powerful bullrush liked I mentioned earlier. Another little example that happened recently:

Thor has a history of taking out the big guns when an opponent is a bit tougher than he'd like them to be in melee. I see no reason why facing a threat like the Hulk would somehow make him turn into a tard and march in chin first. He's a fighter, but he's not stupid. And he'll do what it takes to win, which in this particular case where civilians are no longer a problem, will involve smiting the Hulk with the power of a god.

Also, it's true enough that the Hulk's healing factor can be amazing (thank you for those scans btw, I'd been looking for them), but it can and has been taxed and overwhelmed. Even at his angriest. As seen in his fight vs Sentry:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry17.jpg

The Hulk was overwhelmed by striking and a fiery vortex. Which didn't even wipe out a city block.

Now I've mentioned it before, Thor has no need to hold back in this environment, and he's not weakened like he was in the scan you posted where he hit Hulk with a lightning bolt. Hulk is a bigger threat than the others's he's faced, and he's going to be hitting harder, blasting harder, and generally using his powers to a much more effective degree. He already proved, that if it came down to a melee, he's got what it takes to not only go toe to toe with WWH, but visibly injure him.

Now get this, that Thor was only weakened, but had received damage from Odin and the Serpent AND took two free shots from a trans and high herald character respectively. He was beat up. And he still pulled off some pretty powerful shots. NUL is WWH with an uru hammer, protective spells which increase his already high defenses, and a general power increase. Thor's attacks will hurt him indeed. BUT due to the nature of WWH's powerset, Thor will onyl melee when necessary as WWH still heals very wuickly and it'll take more than melee to put him down. Which thankfully, Thor can go much farther than even Sentry.

When facing a threat where he began to feel overwhelmed, and in an environment where Thor no longer has to worry about hurting innocents, he busted out the wind of a thousand worlds AND combined it with the bull rush I talked about earlier. That power damaged a high skyfather minimum being. Noticeably. It's more than enough power to KO the Hulk.

That's all for the moment. Just got off work. Feel like I'm dying lol.

#16 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fernando072295REBORN:

Out of curiosity, what strategy has WWH ever outsmarted Cap in? Because if you're talking about the secret Avengers fight, Cap had places in the negative zone for each memeber of the Hulk family. Ultimately putting his strategy one step ahead of Hulk's.

yes, thats the one, but point was to show just how different hulk was from the other hulks, that he actually could think before he fought. and that he could find a way to outsmart thor.

Next, true enough Thor decides to brawl against the Hulk more often than not, but this isn't a comic book fight. And while in character means he won't be putting him a whirlwind and hitting with the power to bolster the walls of 1/4 of the multiverse, he'll be using his powers more adeptly than he would in a comic where he's generally neutered against the Hulk, in order for the fight to be fair. Meaning, the god of Thunder will use his absolute control of the storm. Especially in this environment where no civilians are in danger, he won't be worried about repeating this:

i don't think he will, true this is not the comics but thats how we define 'In character", it means that the Thor you're using in your debate will act in a similar manner too his comic counterpart. He will mostly brawl, and even if he utilized the powers you mentioned, which i doubt he would, hulk can take it long enough to KO thor. Savage Hulk and thor are most portrayed as equals ( well not current savage hulk) , now imagine a more skilled , faster, stronger version of the hulk. Not to meantion the fact that Thor can't one shot the hulk, meaning that hulks power will increase as the battles goes on, so in the end he will win.

There is also the fact that hulks punches were servery hurting Hercules, who is considered thor equal in strength/durability( they're contest of strength ended in a draw) , and while it's true that herc did not fight back, he can't control his durability, and hulks punches left him barely standing.

Hercules gets a beat down of his life.

Also Cho himself meant ions that hulk was restricting his punches during the entire course of world war hulk, meaning that if allowed himself to do so, he can really put the hurt on Thor.

Cho confirms that hulk was holding back

Thor literally only stopped because civilians were in danger. He has no need to stop in this case. and while chances are he can't drown the hulk, he will incapacitate him. Leaving him uselessly floating in the water and open for a powerful bullrush liked I mentioned earlier. Another little example that happened recently:

First of all, Savage hulk has evolved and gotten a lot stronger than he use to be, he even beat wolverine and the thing together while being weakened by banner serum, and traded blows with New Hyperion( who survived two words clashing to one another).

I could use your argument against you :), if thor won't hold back , neither will hulk, and he will become world breaker, and fry thor, and at his world breaker stage, hulk can survive planet shattering impacts, and is so strong that he destroyed the planet by clashing with red she hulk, which makes in far more impressive than shattering a plant by a direct punch. here is the scan where hulk cuts loose because no innocent people are around/

so yeah, if thor stops holding back, i don't see why hulk should :P

Thor has a history of taking out the big guns when an opponent is a bit tougher than he'd like them to be in melee. I see no reason why facing a threat like the Hulk would somehow make him turn into a tard and march in chin first. He's a fighter, but he's not stupid. And he'll do what it takes to win, which in this particular case where civilians are no longer a problem, will involve smiting the Hulk with the power of a god.
Also, it's true enough that the Hulk's healing factor can be amazing (thank you for those scans btw, I'd been looking for them), but it can and has been taxed and overwhelmed. Even at his angriest. As seen in his fight vs Sentry:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry17.jpg
The Hulk was overwhelmed by striking and a fiery vortex. Which didn't even wipe out a city block.

never said thor was stupid, but it's in his chracter to fight the hulk directly, but that in no way means that he is just going to exchange punches, no, he WILL use lighting and his other powers, but this will come down to a brawl, like it always does, and thor won't be able to KO hulk in time.

People make that common mistake :), Hulk was not overwhelmed, sentry's powers have always calmed the hulk down, he even managed to drain him , so thats the only reason hulk reverted back to banner , and just seconds later he became 10 time more power as the world breaker,

here are the scans for the sentry VS HULK, so when sentry lost control of his power, hulk was drained and reverted back to banner, but it didn't stop him.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry01aSentryHulk1.jpg

Now I've mentioned it before, Thor has no need to hold back in this environment, and he's not weakened like he was in the scan you posted where he hit Hulk with a lightning bolt. Hulk is a bigger threat than the others's he's faced, and he's going to be hitting harder, blasting harder, and generally using his powers to a much more effective degree. He already proved, that if it came down to a melee, he's got what it takes to not only go toe to toe with WWH, but visibly injure him.

1. Thor wasn't weakened, in fact, he ( magically) got all of his powers back, here is the scan :)

Some people say that Thor was weakened during this fight, but in reality he regained his powers before.

2. The Nul Vs Thor thing was left inclusively, Thor has the power to HURT the hulk, but hurting and putting down isn't the same. And Hulk was never KO'd in that fight, no, in fact, while thor collapsed, hulk landed in the vampire nation, broke adamantium, a hammer equivalent to mjolnir , and pretty much embarrassed everyone who was there. Besides, Thor one-shotted thing, but he did this with mjonlir, yet he could not replicate the same with the hulk, he had to remove him from the battle field. also i say that thor won't hold back , and that means that hulk will not either, and he will become world breaker, who is greater than nul.

also during World war hulk, hulk experienced some INSANE injuries, for example, during his fight with ZOM, hulk has mystical fireworks spread through his guts, and he healed in minutes, and showed no sight of stopping.

Zom dishes out insane amounts of damage, yet none of it puts hulk down, so i have reason to believe that hulk can take a lot of punishment without going down :P

When facing a threat where he began to feel overwhelmed, and in an environment where Thor no longer has to worry about hurting innocents, he busted out the wind of a thousand worlds AND combined it with the bull rush I talked about earlier. That power damaged a high skyfather minimum being. Noticeably. It's more than enough power to KO the Hulk.

Again, hulk has down pretty impressive thing over the years, and if thor does not have to hold back, why should the hulk? he cares for the innocents as much as thor, and he despite their hate for him, he always helped the puny humans( The skaar vs hulk fight would be a good example)

phew! my hands hurt ^__^, thats enough for today !

#17 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: Thor is a tactical genius rarely outsmarted in combat. And the Hulk came into that encounter with prep time and help from a team. Luxuries he most certainly won't have here.

In character also incorporates more history than the fights against the Hulk. History that includes Thor kicking it up a notch when things get tough.

You know why Thor used that storm? Because the destroyer was beating the crap out of him physically. And he did this with human life in the way. Seeing as how Thor can and has amped his storms to a factor of many many zeros:

These things are all done in character, in situations where Thor needs to use them. I've reviewed every single fight the Hulk and Thor have ever had in their entire history as rivals. Thor holds back, tries to protect human life, tries to reason, and sometimes is even blindsided for being like he is.

So, why does Thor have to get neutered so much that he'll rush into a fight chin first against a Hulk who at most he would test, and not just slug it out, when he's got pretty a history of showing that he'll kick it up a notch when necessary? Well I know the answer actually, it's because it's the only way Hulk has a shot at winning. Thor won't be restricted to giving entertainment to the fans this time though. He'll fight hard, and he'll win. Those storms I posted above were felt on Earth from another dimension. Do you understand the power put behind them? It's mind boggling and the Hulk would be tossed like a child's toy, at the mercy of the winds of a god. We could use an even more powerful version of Hulk, and the result would be the same. There's no bracing for something that can pick you up by tearing the ground out beneath you. And there's no defense against something that envelops an entire planet in it's fury like Thor's storms can and have done as seen above.

Those Hercules scans are next to worthless. True enough, no weakling can do that to Hercules, but the difference between being struck in combat, and beings struck out of combat like Hercules is so much, it basically invalidates the feat. These are differences between in combat strikes and out of combat strikes:

see the enormous difference? Hulk got one shot. From being who had just shrugged off before like nothing. It's not a matter of whether the character can lower his durability or not. It's that being hit when you're fighting and being hit when you're not has exponentially different results. Like you saw above. It's apparent in real life also:

see the difference? Ortiz got two shot. By a guy who's punches he was shrugging off moments ago.

See what I'm saying?

Yep, there are multiple instances of where Cho talks about the Hulk holding back. So? Holding back and pulling punches means he wasn't going to kill anyone if he could avoid it. Doesn't mean he wasn't willing to punch people's faces in if he could. And he did. Infact, he openly tried to cripple rockslide, colossus, and X-23 without knowing whether they could be mended or not. He held back when necessary and convenient.

Unfortunately for you, this Hulk is restricted to WWH levels. ;) If you use world breaker hulk, you'll be using a different non agreed to Hulk. Since the general concencous is that WWH is this guy:

not this guy:

In which case I'd have to switch up my argument a bit. But it still wouldn't be beyond Thor's ability to handle. ;) Not that it matters since WBH isn't being used.

------------

The calming powers of the sentry weren't being used. And it was demonstrated that they don't even work on WWH:

That was Reed Richards failing. Reed Richards. They guy who has gun in his closet that can kill Celestials. He duplicated the Sentry's calming energy, and it failed to even phase the hulk.

When the sentry came, he came to fight. His energy doesn't just exclusively work to calm down the Hulk. And that was never his intention. He wanted to fight, and he did.

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry04WWH3.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry05.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry06WWH5.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry07.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry08.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry09.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry10.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry11.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry12.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry13.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry14.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry15.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry16.jpg[/url]

[url]http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Hulk%20Fights%20N-S/HulkvsSentry17.jpg[/url]

That was the entire fight. Out of all of that, can you name a single time, where Sentry showed any non offensive energy? His attacks were completely different than when he fought the savage Hulk. He wanted to have a fight and lighting him on fire wasn't meant to calm him down. to further reiterate:

Yeah...he was doing everything BUT calming hulk down.

anywho...

That still doesn't take away from Thor being weakened to be honest.

His mortal body wasn't even holding up well against cold weather.

and his weakened state is further talked about here:

He wasn't the thunder god he once was...even in that weaker body and state, he was shrugging off everything the Hulk through at him.

Further more, the point of the Nul vs Thor scan was to show that Thor's hits will have increased effect on the Hulk since they visibly damaged a stronger version of WWH, while Thor was noticeably injured. They'll be having more effect than the hit from Hercules that knocked Hulk on his ass will also. If it comes down to melee, Thor can last enough to take out the big guns. Oh and Hulk did NOT break a hammer that was the equivalent to Mjolnir. Mjolnir is in a class of it's own. Stronger beings than the serpent like Surtur, have tried replicating Mjolnir with their own enchantments, and they still come out as knock offs. Hulk simply broke variably enchanted uru. Thor's crumbled uru many times in the past, and has broken adamantium netting by flexing his muscles before also. What Hulk did in the vampire nation while impressive, still doesn't take away from his inability to beat beat a battered, wounded Thor despite having an almost equally powerful partner to help him, and he was still knocked into space as an after effect from Thor's strike and was debatable momentarily KO'd.

-----------

The Zom fight is only impressive in that Hulk's healing factor kept him from not plain out dying. But Thor doesn't need to kill Hulk (even if he can). A human can stay conscious even with multiple stab wounds. Yet they can be knocked out with forces that aren't anywhere near what it takes to kill them. Same deal with Hulk up there. Thor can ko him, and we will. Thor's used lightning to take down the Hulk before, and he can and would again. Seeing as how he's the god of thunder and all, here's a taste of in character lightning he typically uses:

^raising his arm would be all that's needed to get the Hulk off balance with a blast like that

^ again, a simple sweep of his arm would be all it would take for a momentary damaging attack, which would then turn to this:

These are blasts that are more powerful than anything that Hulk resisted energy wise in his time as the WWH persona. Storm and human torch can't even begin to compare, and Sentry isn't anything stronger than maybe a solar flare.

But even then these are all attacks that would only get used also if Thor decided to hold back for some reason. Which under my control here, he would not. Every attack Thor has used in his career has been at some point in character. Especially lightning that he commonly likes to to use. There is next to no reason for him to not simply do this either against someone where KO/Death is the goal in the OP:

That blast blew Voidty's back open. The Hulk would be devastated and a sputtering mess when hit with it.

The Hulk can not hold back if he'd like, but all the strength in the world can't help him against Thor's power. He is a god after all. One that's proven to be his physical match, and proven in spades to be his powerful superior.

aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndddddddddd your turn bro haha ^_^ that'll do for now.

#18 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

oh and how do we know when this ends lol? Is there a post limit or time limit or something?

#19 Edited by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fernando072295REBORN: I just wanted to say I love your videos on youtube. Keep up the good work. Also nice debate! Good work to both of you. Excellent debate so far. Show him that a morals off Thor would destroy any version of Hulk, and make us Thor fans proud!

#20 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath: Hey, thanks man :) I appreciate it.

#21 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fernando072295REBORN said:

@ThunderGodsWrath: Hey, thanks man :) I appreciate it.

No problem.

#22 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3226 posts) - - Show Bio

Now this is what I call a debate... I always loved the rivalry between Thor and Hulk fans..

#23 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fernando072295REBORN:

In character also incorporates more history than the fights against the Hulk. History that includes Thor kicking it up a notch when things get tough.
You know why Thor used that storm? Because the destroyer was beating the crap out of him physically. And he did this with human life in the way. Seeing as how Thor can and has amped his storms to a factor of many many zeros:
These things are all done in character, in situations where Thor needs to use them. I've reviewed every single fight the Hulk and Thor have ever had in their entire history as rivals. Thor holds back, tries to protect human life, tries to reason, and sometimes is even blindsided for being like he is

Well, if you put it like that, Thor should yes use a storm, but hulk is tough enough to survive a storm, sure he might get knocked off his feet, but he'll get back up, even madder than ever.

In character hulk has also had his fair share of awesome feats. As i said, world war hulk holds back a great deal as well, even during his war he was restricting his punches, and with it he one shotted the thing, someone who use to be a formidable foe for the hulk. He took Zoms fire work punches and manged to leave herc at a beaten up, bruised state. And now imagine if hulk stops holding back, Thor has usually trouble fighting Normal hulk( who is in fact way stronger now) and world war hulk is way stronger than savage.

also the point i'd like to make is that even though hulk might look limited in his power sets, but hulk is one of thous characters that can utilize their strength and durability to cause a lot of damage.

Here are two examples: Thunderclaps and earthquakes are one of thous things!

causing earthquakes around the world!

Here he sends Blastaar and the armies of the Negative Zone flying

hulk thunderclaps Fing Fang Foom to a magic wall and breaks it, the wall was made by Umar who is on par with dr strange on his peak

So i'm pretty sure Hulk could cause thor tons of damage.

So, why does Thor have to get neutered so much that he'll rush into a fight chin first against a Hulk who at most he would test, and not just slug it out, when he's got pretty a history of showing that he'll kick it up a notch when necessary? Well I know the answer actually, it's because it's the only way Hulk has a shot at winning. Thor won't be restricted to giving entertainment to the fans this time though. He'll fight hard, and he'll win. Those storms I posted above were felt on Earth from another dimension. Do you understand the power put behind them? It's mind boggling and the Hulk would be tossed like a child's toy, at the mercy of the winds of a god. We could use an even more powerful version of Hulk, and the result would be the same. There's no bracing for something that can pick you up by tearing the ground out beneath you. And there's no defense against something that envelops an entire planet in it's fury like Thor's storms can and have done as seen above.

Again, you make hulk very limited to his power set while he is in fact far stronger than you make him to be. If hulk could cause earthquakes and around the globe. If we go with the " no restrictions argument" Hulk can basically become World breaker and fry or demolish thor. and thors winds won't cause world breaker hulk any, AT ALL, because he survived an explosion of a planet. and his Constant gamma radiation will do far more damage than you'd expect. hulk can also knock thor of his feet via thunderclap or earthquake.

Hulk uses different tactics with his different enemies as well, He RAW power has even destroyed Nightmares dimension, and that wasn't even World war hulk, it was mindless hulk. So could you possibly imagine how much damage hulk is going to cause? and how much raw power he has?

when i say in chracter i meant The usual thor VS hulk battle, but Banner holds hulk back the dame way thor holds back, but thor has cut loose before, against weaker versions of the hulk. During the Thor VS mindless hulk, it is stated that thor did not hold back, he was going With what he had, and still the hulk didn't back down.

Now again hulks a couple of punches are going to do a lot of damage, considering he reduced herc to a punching back and caused his serious damage, WHILE he was holding back.

Those Hercules scans are next to worthless. True enough, no weakling can do that to Hercules, but the difference between being struck in combat, and beings struck out of combat like Hercules is so much, it basically invalidates the feat. These are differences between in combat strikes and out of combat strikes:

actually these scans are pretty valid. look at it this way, hercules was aware of hulks presence, meaning that hulks punches weren't cheap shots, IF herc wasn't aware then maybe you'd have a point, but Herc was aware and even uppercut-ed the hulk, but hulk merely tipped over( Hulks is about a ton so that wasn't hard), but herc can't control his durability levels when the enemy is in plain sight. Hulk beat herc up while holding back, but yes to be fair herc did not in fact fight back, but that doesn't make his durability less tough.

see the enormous difference? Hulk got one shot. From being who had just shrugged off before like nothing. It's not a matter of whether the character can lower his durability or not. It's that being hit when you're fighting and being hit when you're not has exponentially different results. Like you saw above. It's apparent in real life also:

Now THAT was a cheap shot :P, but thats a different hulk so it' doesn't matter anyways.

Yep, there are multiple instances of where Cho talks about the Hulk holding back. So? Holding back and pulling punches means he wasn't going to kill anyone if he could avoid it. Doesn't mean he wasn't willing to punch people's faces in if he could. And he did. Infact, he openly tried to cripple rockslide, colossus, and X-23 without knowing whether they could be mended or not. He held back when necessary and convenient.

If thats so, then how come so many people say the same thing for thor? :P you're argument goes both ways, both for hulk and thor.

also hulk says he knew rockslide could control his body parts ,and he seemed to know his powers. and he never punched x-23, he trew here away.

and even against sentry he said he didn't want to fight. But when he REALLY cut loose in the dark demension, we know what happened.

Unfortunately for you, this Hulk is restricted to WWH levels. ;) If you use world breaker hulk, you'll be using a different non agreed to Hulk. Since the general concencous is that WWH is this guy:

i'm not switching anything, WWH IS WBH, the difference lies within their morals :), WWH is the hulk who usually holds back around Innocent people to avoid hurting anyone, and WBH is World war hulk when he cuts loose, so they are the same, and i ONLY use world breaker if you say thor will stop holding back. As revealed in Incredible hulks 634 and 635, hulk can become world breaker any time he wants.

In which case I'd have to switch up my argument a bit. But it still wouldn't be beyond Thor's ability to handle. ;) Not that it matters since WBH isn't being used.

you can't switch because i never switched , WBH IS WWH.

The calming powers of the sentry weren't being used. And it was demonstrated that they don't even work on WWH:
That was Reed Richards failing. Reed Richards. They guy who has gun in his closet that can kill Celestials. He duplicated the Sentry's calming energy, and it failed to even phase the hulk.
When the sentry came, he came to fight. His energy doesn't just exclusively work to calm down the Hulk. And that was never his intention. He wanted to fight, and he did

reed Richards jobbed in WWH, his prep time far exceeds the beings like the hulk, but for the plot to move forward, he had to loose. when sentry came he lost control of his powers so it's why hulk reverted back to banner. besides it's irrelevant to use that argument considering that Hulk doesn't turn into banner when he is punched hard, it doesn't work that way, and also 5 minutes later hulk became 10 time more powerful.

That was the entire fight. Out of all of that, can you name a single time, where Sentry showed any non offensive energy? His attacks were completely different than when he fought the savage Hulk. He wanted to have a fight and lighting him on fire wasn't meant to calm him down. to further reiterate:

never said he didn't wanted to fight, but during the fight he lost control of his energies , and the huge dosage reverted hulk back to banner, if he had burnt out he would not have been able to become World breaker hulk, who is way stronger than wwh.

That still doesn't take away from Thor being weakened to be honest.
His mortal body wasn't even holding up well against cold weather.
and his weakened state is further talked about here:
He wasn't the thunder god he once was...even in that weaker body and state, he was shrugging off everything the Hulk through at him.
Further more, the point of the Nul vs Thor scan was to show that Thor's hits will have increased effect on the Hulk since they visibly damaged a stronger version of WWH, while Thor was noticeably injured. They'll be having more effect than the hit from Hercules that knocked Hulk on his ass will also. If it comes down to melee, Thor can last enough to take out the big guns. Oh and Hulk did NOT break a hammer that was the equivalent to Mjolnir. Mjolnir is in a class of it's own. Stronger beings than the serpent like Surtur, have tried replicating Mjolnir with their own enchantments, and they still come out as knock offs. Hulk simply broke variably enchanted uru. Thor's crumbled uru many times in the past, and has broken adamantium netting by flexing his muscles before also. What Hulk did in the vampire nation while impressive, still doesn't take away from his inability to beat beat a battered, wounded Thor despite having an almost equally powerful partner to help him, and he was still knocked into space as an after effect from Thor's strike and was debatable momentarily KO'd.

1. Hulk and thor were during the time considered to able to be killed by a nuke. Prof hulk himself wasn't even doing well against cold attacks as he can now, he has been freezed and he did break out, but not as easily as he could. Thor right before the battle shows that his powers had returned to him, not to meantion the fact that he went into worriers madness state, which triples his power.

2. Hulk was still fresh as ever, the fact that thor managed to keep up is impressive but it's not like hulk hasn't done that before, in fact hulks instance was more impressive IMO.

Even Though Hulk becoming weaker due to the physical separation from banner , he did pretty well against the east cost and west cost avengers.

Nul would have killed thor, so Thor Removed him from the battlefeild, hulk was never KO'd, and Hulk has fought at a weak state before, and he has done well too.

The Zom fight is only impressive in that Hulk's healing factor kept him from not plain out dying. But Thor doesn't need to kill Hulk (even if he can). A human can stay conscious even with multiple stab wounds. Yet they can be knocked out with forces that aren't anywhere near what it takes to kill them. Same deal with Hulk up there. Thor can ko him, and we will. Thor's used lightning to take down the Hulk before, and he can and would again. Seeing as how he's the god of thunder and all, here's a taste of in character lightning he typically uses:

Healing factors prevent you from being KO'd, when you're KO'd it is because of brain damage from the punches impact, Besides, the HULK thor Knocked out WAS NOT wwh, he was savage hulk, so it's irrelevant, besides Savage hulk has become way stronger now, Here is the newest example

Drawing Blood from new Hyperion, some one who has survived two universes colliding.

New Hyperion Surviving the collision of two worlds.

Also you can't name a single instance where World war hulk was KO'd besides against Zeus( who is a skyfather) , he was never KO'd, not once( not that i recall anyways lol). Hulk has taken insane damage far greater than thors lighting, he went against hero-kala who moved planets around like toys, and hulk has WAY more durability showings, here are the sacans though.

Resisted a full blast from Hero Kala , hulk's dark son. The feat is impressive because same person was capable of moving a planet from microverse to macroverse (Sakaar Son of Hulk: Realm of Kings) and moving the planet around in space as a spaceship (Incredible Hulk: Dark Son- 610 to 616)

also Hulk is pretty resistant to Melee punches as well, if he could take a punch like this

resisting a force equal to the kinetic power of a hundred trillion tons of shifting lithosphere

also i'd like to mention that thor usually has trouble with regular hulk , so now if we take into consideration that this hulk is smarter, more skilled, faster, Stronger and heals faster , i don't think thor can win this by any means. Hulks Durability and power will be increasing as the battle goes on and on, and thor won't be able to Ko hulk from the start, because the mr green jeans has the means to survive for a very very long time, he can put the hurt on thor, and he will come on top eventually.

These are blasts that are more powerful than anything that Hulk resisted energy wise in his time as the WWH persona. Storm and human torch can't even begin to compare, and Sentry isn't anything stronger than maybe a solar flare.
But even then these are all attacks that would only get used also if Thor decided to hold back for some reason. Which under my control here, he would not. Every attack Thor has used in his career has been at some point in character. Especially lightning that he commonly likes to to use. There is next to no reason for him to not simply do this either against someone where KO/Death is the goal in the OP:

it's true that storm and johnny can't compare with thor, but what about hiro-kala? zeus? these are two uber powerful creatures, and hulk resisted them, not to mention the fact the hulk has taken worse hits as savage hulk anyways. He can survive this, and thor won't be able to one shot him, meaning that hulks constant increasing power will allow him to survive long enough to cause SERIOUS damage. even Zarathos can't sear the hulk!

Even as savage hulk, Mr green jeans has done things that bi-pass thor lighting, He managed to take a dimensional blast, but it doesn't end there, he not only ressietd it, but deflected it with his thunderclap.

Here's Hulk punching with enough force to light up a dimension.

Also! Hulks healing factor ( which becomes more powerful when he is angrier) will keep The KING going for a long time, even as prof hulk, he managed to beats immense damage.

ll of his skin and part of his muscle mass were flayed by Vector; It took the Hulk a few minutes to recover the mass and heal completely

And vector is NO JOKE :D

Resisting Vector's all-out TK. But this time, Vector is pushing himself beyond his previous limits to the point where the fabric of REALITY is being rent (which is how the U-Foes wound up at the Crossroads).

That blast blew Voidty's back open. The Hulk would be devastated and a sputtering mess when hit with it.
The Hulk can not hold back if he'd like, but all the strength in the world can't help him against Thor's power. He is a god after all. One that's proven to be his physical match, and proven in spades to be his powerful superior.

1. void only died because snetry wanted to be killed, other wise i don't see how sentry could have been killed when he was at his most powerful.

2. If hulk stops holding back, thors lighting won't even phase him, since he survived a planets destruction! :P

and thats it man XD, my hands hurt! i hope i increased your respect for hulk! ^__^

#24 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: Very nice write up Acid :) There's a lot to respond to here lol.

I can agree Thor would have trouble fighting WWH while pulling his punches. It's only natural, stronger hulk means tougher problems. But When I say limited by his powerset, I'm saying that he can't handle opponents Thor can, because he's so cut here paste there. He's basically a brick with a healing factor that becomes stronger over time. He's not cut out for the big leagues like Thor is. Just compare who they respectively are put up against. Chaos War being a good example:

compared to...

Why is the Hulk fighting a grounded brick, and Thor's fighting a high skyfather/elder god level being who is the entirety of a pantheon condensed into one? Because one has vast more power and ability than the other. One has the powerset needed to go into space, fight off hordes of gods manifested by Glory by using the winds of a thousand worlds, and the ability to absorb its energy and redirect it with energy that affected reality itself. Hulk on the other hand, does not have the powerset needed to do this. It's what I mean by him being limited. He's only as good as his strength, all those scans of after effects and earthquakes are a direct result of his strength. Thor has dozens of abilities he can use, offensive and defensive alike. The Hulk's chances are literally dependent on whether or not Thor decides to drop his hammer and expose his chin for the Hulk's punches. He isn't going to do that here. So yeah, that's what I mean by the Hulk being limited by his powerset.

And don't get me wrong, it's impressive that the Hulk's fights can cause Earthquakes like that, but if collateral damage is being looked at, Thor's thunder is felt across worlds:

--------------------------------------

The Umar barrier break is impressive, but the barrier cleary wasn't that durable. I mean Good Lord, it was broken by an indirect attack where Fin Fang Foom was flinged at it. Foom had higher durability than the thing. And even though Foom was amped during that time, it still wouldn't put him at the level necessary for him to suddenly be >>>> Umar's barrier.

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Look, I'm very well aware that WWH is physically superior to Thor in strength. There's no denying it. Looking at past battles should take that doubt out of anyone's head, BUT so what? Like I said before, unless Thor decides to take off his shirt, lay down Mjolnir, and assume this pose:

It's hardly going to matter. It's the reason that Thor wins here. The Hulk has fists to rain on Thor. Thor has the heavens to open up on Hulk.

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No, WWH and WBH while the same character, are considered different versions on the forums. When a fight says Character X vs WWH, WWH does not get his WBH feats. That would defeat the purpose of WWH. It's like saying Savage Hulk can be WWH because eventually he'll get mad enough to where they're at the same level. It's true, but that doesn't give him WWH's feats. You know what I'm saying?

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Thor would most certainly be able to hurt Hulk if he felt like it. Even WBH. The destruction of a planet is impressive and all, but Thor's storms are felt across dimensions. Think about that for second. The storm's are so powerful, they were able to devastate the Earth FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION. There isn't really any defense against that. Hulk was undeniably burnt out. It's the reason he reverted in the first place. He went back to the Hulk moments later only because of the catalyst he was exposed to by seeing Rick "killed" in front of him. That's what put him back to WWH. After that, he received another catalyst when he found out his best friend basically killed his entire world. That's the reason he became WBH. It's not like he was still holding back before that when he was dismembering Miek and slapping his friends around again. He had multiple problems that gave him the anger to become WBH in HOTM, and the entire Hiro Kala storyline as well as confrontations with Skaar were part of the reason's that led to the HOTM finale. All that built up anger finally being let loose. Here WWH could EVENTUALLY become WBH, but it's not like Thor would let that happen.

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That fight against the heroes' is impressive and all, but it's hardly comparable to Thor's experiences. Thor doesn't have a healing factor like Hulk's, who though he was weaker, still had his abilities to rely on, and no one on that team hold a candle to even Worthy Thing, let alone Worthy Hulk. Thor beat both of them while severely injured. It's debatable as to whethere Hulk was knocked out or not. I'm leaning more towards a flash Ko than not. Regardless, Hulk being up and at em later in Hulk vs Dracula doesn't really mean much. Unless he's dead, of course the Hulk will heal fairly quickly. Especially a hulk who now has asgardian magic to back him up.

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Healing factors can be taxed though. Just like Hulk's and Wolverine's have in the past. To the point where the damage is still so much they still go down. Thor can increase the power of the lightning he used to drop Hulk by many times over anyway though so he's still vulnerable to it. Ah yes, the Hyperion fight lol. Unless you're suggesting that Hyperion was hit with substantial more power than two universes exploding, or that Hyperion's base durability is now so high that nothing under two universal explosions can harm him, all Hulk did was draw blood from a high herald. Hardly something he hasn't done repeatedly in the past.

It'd be like giving props to Hulk for hurting Thor who's resisted this in the past:

So, yeah.

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So you think that the Hulk resisting his sons power is impressive stuff huh? Well I can agree for sure, but I think it's time to finish this argument by showing just how much power Thor has. It's power unmatched by just about any hero in Marvel OR DC. You've used arguments a lot where you think the Hulk can stand up to Thor's power long enough for him to become so strong Thor will be simply overwhelmed and put down. The only way Thor will let that happen is out of the goodness of his heart. This is true, utter, debvastating power that Thor has:

That would be Surtur. A high skyfather getting staggered by Thor.

That would be Galactus who was just dropped by a bolt of lightning. Hungry or not, it's galactus.

It doesn't look all that great (and to be honest I just wanted to include it because of the art lol) but a casual hammer toss from Thor can knock back a city engulfing title wave.

Thor's ability to put massive power behind his bullrushing can't really be more evident than here. He just blew a hold in galactus' head.

regardless of whether the Sentry wanted to die or not, the void most certainly didn't as he tried to hold Thor back with his tentacles. Thor powered through and delivered the absolutely massive bolt of lightning you see up there.

Thor not only hurts the PF he straight KNOCKS IT OUT. And yes, for any doubters, it was indeed a KO:

"Here we've got a pretty epic confrontation between Thor and the Phoenix. What exactly happens in this scene. Does Thor hit the Phoenix so hard that it needs to stop and refuel?"

"Yeah, the idea was here's was basically Phoenix versus a god, which, you know, seems like a fair fight. So Thor went and smacked the Phoenix so hard that he knocked the bird out. [Laughs]"

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?...le&id=39002

Thor with another casual hammer toss hurts Korvac.
Thor puts his daddy on his knees with one hit.
She hulk and namor provided some damage, put multiple hits from them paled in comparison to what ONE hit from a torn to pieces Thor did to Zeus.
That's Chaos King. The guy who absorbed over 97% of the universe. And Thor hurt him with his lightning. It's hard to describe the amount of power put here. Galactus horribly failed to even get CK to notice him, and entire pantheons were shrugged off as if nothing was assailing him. This feat is something most abstracts don't have under their belt.

So, yeah. Thor's hurt everyone from Skyfather's to abstracts. All of which are significantly higher in all forms than the Hulk. If he can do noticeable damage to them, what chance will the Hulk have? None of those attacks I showed you were more than melee, lightning, storms, and variations of melee. Nothing exotic and nothing out of character for Thor. It's simply not holding back. There are some attacks that just won't leave anything for Hulk to heal, and Thor can easily imitate the bolt of lightning that fried Hulk fired off by Zeus. He is the god of thunder after all, and he's got the feats to back it up.

-------------------------

There have been multiple instances where heroes would rather not take a nuke to the face. Doesn't take away though that from that particular time, Thor was not himself. Not completely anyway. And all he did was go into a rage. Not warrior's madness. Seeing as how warrior madness actually increases the power of the victim by 10x and can't be cured, as stated by Odin. Blood and Thunder? Not warrior madness. Just a non-holding back Thor.

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1. That wasn't the scan where Thor killed the void though. Sentry still had his high herald durability. As long as he kept getting damaged, more of the void would be released. Ares demonstrated that by stabbing him in the side and tendrils of the void came out. The more damage, the more of the void that was released. Thor blew the Sentry's back open. Which would have killed non void sentry, basically giving Thor the power to one shot kill any herald. (Except those with a mighty healing factor like the hulk) Regardless, hulk would be severely injured and out like a light.

2. Please see the multiple abstracts who didn't think little ol Thor could hurt them either. :)

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ANYWAYS, time to clear some stuff up. I'm just gonna summarize why I think Thor will win this more than not for the onlookers who want the short version of it all:

Thor has proven in spades that he can contend with the big boys. More so than any other hero to date. Now, it's more than obvious that the Hulk is Thor's physical superior. And why shouldn't he be? He's the Hulk. The strongest there is. BUT, Thor is the most powerful there is. And pure power, tops raw strength any day. Especially in the case where two peers like these guys are going at it. WWH has the advantage in that Thor should not be able to physically put him down with any standard hits. It'd be retarded of Thor to try for very long in that route, because he has over 20+ fights where he's failed to put Hulk down by physical means. There are many where he's come out on top sure, but the Hulk has never been KO'd by hammer to face. Does that mean Thor wouldn't do it? No, I'm sure he would try. But he's not an idiot. And he has 5 decades of feats to call on where he does more than hammer to face. No reason at all for him to not do it to the Hulk. Thankfully, this isn't a comic where Thor is limited by plot. And while he's in character (meaning he's probably not going to sould steal, phase the hulk into a pocket dimension, throw Mjolnir at Hulk many times FTL, go into the air and simply range spam hulk with chaos king lightning, etc) there's no reason for him to not employ the abilities that make who he is. He's Thor. god of thunder. He's gonna use his powers, and more so here in an environment where he can not worry about hurting anyone. And more so against the hulk. who whether he likes to admit it or not, has a need to see him put down. Thor's going to kick it to a level the Hulk simply can't contend with, and when it happens the Hulk will lose. The only way for Thor to lose this fight, is if he lets the Hulk wail on him by going into a melee, in which case Thor will lose every time. But he won't so it's irrelevant. Thor will fight hard, and he will win.

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PHEW. Okay Acid I'm good. We can keep going if you want, but if not, you get final post since I got the first one, and then we can let the good viners vote lol.

I enjoyed this a lot seeing as how i rarely ever get to debate a friend civilly like this. It usually turns into a flame war with me hugging my Mjolnir and the Hulk fan hugging his hulk gloves lol.

#25 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fernando072295REBORN: Dear GOD I HAVE work to do XD

I can agree Thor would have trouble fighting WWH while pulling his punches. It's only natural, stronger hulk means tougher problems. But When I say limited by his powerset, I'm saying that he can't handle opponents Thor can, because he's so cut here paste there. He's basically a brick with a healing factor that becomes stronger over time. He's not cut out for the big leagues like Thor is. Just compare who they respectively are put up against. Chaos War being a good example:
Why is the Hulk fighting a grounded brick, and Thor's fighting a high skyfather/elder god level being who is the entirety of a pantheon condensed into one? Because one has vast more power and ability than the other. One has the powerset needed to go into space, fight off hordes of gods manifested by Glory by using the winds of a thousand worlds, and the ability to absorb its energy and redirect it with energy that affected reality itself. Hulk on the other hand, does not have the powerset needed to do this. It's what I mean by him being limited. He's only as good as his strength, all those scans of after effects and earthquakes are a direct result of his strength. Thor has dozens of abilities he can use, offensive and defensive alike. The Hulk's chances are literally dependent on whether or not Thor decides to drop his hammer and expose his chin for the Hulk's punches. He isn't going to do that here. So yeah, that's what I mean by the Hulk being limited by his powerset.

1. What makes you think hulk hasn't fought guys that are soppoused to be out of his league? Both thor and hulk have enemies that are stronger and weaker than one another. Not to mention that abomination was considerably amped during the fight considering he was able to take on the whole hulk family. hulk has had his fair share matches against guys who are WAY up in the top tire, he fought Zom who even made the living tribunal nervous. And Not to mention that hulk was proven with his feats that he is on par with many of the top dogs, feats like this for example

ripping off a powerful device designed to fight against the Celestials

Classic Dr. Strange's mystic barrier can't withstand the punches of "the most powerful creature on the face of the Earth,"

This is exactly what i mean. hulk is more than capable of taking on thor any many other guys , he is that powerful, and what hulk lacks in versatility, he makes up for in Brute force, immense durability, crazy healing factor and power to utilize his strength in many many ways.

Hulk has fought guys that are really really powerful, thor is not the only one who faces off against celestials, hulk has done this before, and he can do it again.

there are a few examples of Hulk fighting two really powerful people.

Hulk fought the Stranger who is overflowing with power , considering he managed to muster up enough force to move the planet out of orbit. if you want a genaral selection of how powerful stranger is, here you go:

The Stranger possesses extraordinarily powerful levels of strength, stamina, speed, durability, energy projection, endurance and resilience. The Stranger is also extremely intelligent, as well as a fond researcher and scientist. The Stranger possesses extremely powerful cosmic energy and psionic powers, and he may channel the power cosmic for multiples uses to the extent he so desires, such as using the energy for flight, energy generation, emanation, projection and force-fields. The Stranger can also utilize such energies for offensive bolts. The Stranger is a size and shape manipulator capable of altering his size from that of a typical human to sizes comparable to the cosmic entity of balance Galactus. The Stranger is a capable of teleporting virtually anywhere he would desire, even across realities and dimensions. The Stranger's strength allow him to lift in excess of 100 tons. The Stranger for all intents and purposes, functionally immortal, highly resistant to all conventional forms of injury. Stranger's home world and basis of operation is Laboratory World.

- SC

And also Hulk has fought Galaxy Master, an entity that roamed the cosmos and destroyed entire planets, assaults Savage Hulk who impossibly manages to fight through him in Incredible Hulk #112 and forces him to switch to chemical gas tactics, but so you know the gas tactic won't work any more, this was back when hulk was weak to huge doeses of gas :P.

and The World war hulk himself has gone up against hero-kala, who i repeat moved panets around like toys. here is how powerful HK is

2. Yes, Hulk MAY not be AS versatile as thor, but he is indeed versatile in his own way. In character Hulk always uses his surroundings as weapons, my argument was the fact that Hulk unlike many other bricks, can utilize his power and turn it into a different types of weapons. Similar to how "Thors light was felt through the world'! the same way hulks punches was causing mass earth quakes around the world. his thunderclaps and earthquakes will give thor a lot of trouble, hulk can knock him out of air, and also off his feet.

Even if thor does decide to use the weather, it won't put hulk down, he come back, and the fight will go one. But theres also an important factor that Thor won't use his other powers right away, you said yourself that when he is getting beaten he will start using the weather, he will already be in a relatively weakened state, meaning that hulk can and will knock him out of air and it will be easier for him to.

The Umar barrier break is impressive, but the barrier cleary wasn't that durable. I mean Good Lord, it was broken by an indirect attack where Fin Fang Foom was flinged at it. Foom had higher durability than the thing. And even though Foom was amped during that time, it still wouldn't put him at the level necessary for him to suddenly be >>>> Umar's barrier.

It wasn't FFF durability that broke the barrier, it was hulks powerful thunderclap, but anyways, savage hulk had much more of an impressive TC feat anyways, it back in my previous post :)

Look, I'm very well aware that WWH is physically superior to Thor in strength. There's no denying it. Looking at past battles should take that doubt out of anyone's head, BUT so what? Like I said before, unless Thor decides to take off his shirt, lay down Mjolnir, and assume this pose:

Again, i'm not saying ( laugh so hard on the photo BTW XD) that thor will just drop the hammer and charge towards hulk yelling " i've got the power"! , no, he will fight using mjolnit and lighting, but in a brawl, thats how the battle will begin, and by the time therster realizes that he is loosing and starts using his powers, things will be much easier for the hulk knock him out of the sky or get ahold of him, he can also take what thot throws at him, he is that durable, not to mention the fact that his durability gets tougher as the battle goes on.

No, WWH and WBH while the same character, are considered different versions on the forums. When a fight says Character X vs WWH, WWH does not get his WBH feats. That would defeat the purpose of WWH. It's like saying Savage Hulk can be WWH because eventually he'll get mad enough to where they're at the same level. It's true, but that doesn't give him WWH's feats. You know what I'm saying?
Thor would most certainly be able to hurt Hulk if he felt like it. Even WBH. The destruction of a planet is impressive and all, but Thor's storms are felt across dimensions. Think about that for second. The storm's are so powerful, they were able to devastate the Earth FROM ANOTHER DIMENSION. There isn't really any defense against that. Hulk was undeniably burnt out. It's the reason he reverted in the first place. He went back to the Hulk moments later only because of the catalyst he was exposed to by seeing Rick "killed" in front of him. That's what put him back to WWH. After that, he received another catalyst when he found out his best friend basically killed his entire world. That's the reason he became WBH. It's not like he was still holding back before that when he was dismembering Miek and slapping his friends around again. He had multiple problems that gave him the anger to become WBH in HOTM, and the entire Hiro Kala storyline as well as confrontations with Skaar were part of the reason's that led to the HOTM finale. All that built up anger finally being let loose. Here WWH could EVENTUALLY become WBH, but it's not like Thor would let that happen.

You'd be right if hulk couln't become world breaker at will, and if this was the time BEFORE incredible hulks 634-5 came out, you'd be 100% right! but, in the HOAM story line, it was revealed that the hulk could become the world breaker any time, not to mention the fact the fact that he says that he was holding back before, his rage is always with him, he can just start thinking about ciara, betty, his planet and the rage will flow right through him. the impressive part about WBH surviving a planets explosion was the simple fact that he had absolutely NO DAMAGE at all, not even a scratch, and also thor never showed any power that enabled him to destroy a dimension while hulk survived such force on 3 occasions, which i did post in my previous post, but here you go.

Resisting Vector's all-out TK. But this time, Vector is pushing himself beyond his previous limits to the point where the fabric of REALITY is being rent (which is how the U-Foes wound up at the Crossroads).

tearing up nightmares dimension.

The Hulk endures and then deflects the Night-Crawler's sonic attack which was so powerful it destroys the Dark Crawler’s universe

Here's Hulk punching with enough force to light up a dimension.

But my personal opinion is that we shouldn't really use these one off type of feats. but since this is an ALL OUT argument lol i guess we can.

anywho, hulk has proved he can take any damage thor dishes out, and the lighting that once knocked him out won't work on him any more, hulk is very durable and his durability increases as the fight goes on, as does his power and healing factor, so he can survive anything thrown at him at this point. and if he goes world breaker, he can definitely beat thor, considering that he walk though a planets destruction easily and he can do it again.

also WBH Destroyed a planet not through a direct hit, but through a Shock wave of a clash, which means that thats was far more impressive then a direct stomp. Now my argument is that f thor has no bounds to hold back, than neither does hulk, it is in his character to cut loose once Innocent people aren't around to hold him back.

That fight against the heroes' is impressive and all, but it's hardly comparable to Thor's experiences. Thor doesn't have a healing factor like Hulk's, who though he was weaker, still had his abilities to rely on, and no one on that team hold a candle to even Worthy Thing, let alone Worthy Hulk. Thor beat both of them while severely injured. It's debatable as to whethere Hulk was knocked out or not. I'm leaning more towards a flash Ko than not. Regardless, Hulk being up and at em later in Hulk vs Dracula doesn't really mean much. Unless he's dead, of course the Hulk will heal fairly quickly. Especially a hulk who now has asgardian magic to back him up.

the term Getting weaker was used in general, meaning that it wasn't only limited to hulks strength. Hulk was becoming weaker in HF, durabulity, strength, but his savagery kept him going to fight both the east cost and west cost avengers, imagine one guy fighting all these heroes, Hercules included, and he still held his own. The hulk tough, real tough, and he can muster tons of trouble.

Hulk wasn't KO, it looks debatable, but it doesn't explain why there was an empty bubble beside the hulk, i mean whats the point of hulk being KO'd if you put a bubble right there next to him, that was basically a hint that hulk was not KO'd.

also i'd also like to adress one more thing, Thor has been amped with hulks powers before, and the hulked out heroes fought red hulk, and he di pretty well ( though what should have we expected from lobe :D)

and the WWH beat the livving tar out of red hulk, seriously, if he had actually tried he would have killed the red hulk. note that red hulk was actually full of cosmic rays + hulks absorbed power later on. but i get it, this was written by a hack so i'd understand if we can let this slide considering that crazy crap lobes been making rulk do :)

but i'll yous scans from a much more reliable writer, greg pak, who made the hulk-ed out heroes face Skaar

taking On hulked-out heroes head on. skaar is clearly tanking a thunder blow from a Hulked out Thor. Skaar fough them including thor, and he was still in a condition to give wwh a awesome fight, so thor is not the only one who fought an amped version of his foe ;)

Healing factors can be taxed though. Just like Hulk's and Wolverine's have in the past. To the point where the damage is still so much they still go down. Thor can increase the power of the lightning he used to drop Hulk by many times over anyway though so he's still vulnerable to it. Ah yes, the Hyperion fight lol. Unless you're suggesting that Hyperion was hit with substantial more power than two universes exploding, or that Hyperion's base durability is now so high that nothing under two universal explosions can harm him, all Hulk did was draw blood from a high herald. Hardly something he hasn't done repeatedly in the past.

oh you misunderstand friend, i did't mean that hulk punched a force equal to two universe exploding, i meant that it's impressive that hulk could draw blood from someone with such high durability. and as for the healing factors, WWH hasn't been KO'd once during his fights except by zeus, and the gamma drainer at the end of wwh, and in both cases hulk wanted to get beaten.

This is true, utter, debvastating power that Thor has:

while this is very very impressive, i've posted many scans above that show hulk much power hulk can resist i've even shown WHY hulks son was so powerful, and i posted many other feats when hulk fought galaxy master, stranger, night crawler( not the elf! XD, the guy who mustered up universe destruction type of power )

So, yeah. Thor's hurt everyone from Skyfather's to abstracts. All of which are significantly higher in all forms than the Hulk. If he can do noticeable damage to them, what chance will the Hulk have? None of those attacks I showed you were more than melee, lightning, storms, and variations of melee. Nothing exotic and nothing out of character for Thor. It's simply not holding back. There are some attacks that just won't leave anything for Hulk to heal, and Thor can easily imitate the bolt of lightning that fried Hulk fired off by Zeus. He is the god of thunder after all, and he's got the feats to back it up.

1. Yes thors thunders are Very very power. but again, i've posted scans of HUlk surviving dimensional attacks , not only that, but he has even overpowers them, deflected them, and resisted them, while thors thunders can definitely hurt the hulk , he will heal, remember i showed you a scan of prof hulk ( weaker than WWH) healing from a complete flaying of his mass, and i've showed that Vector has the power to repel more then just the hulk, he can repel a dimension which say A LOT about the hulk.

hulk has taken blast from celestial before, and he kept fighting!

The celestial order fails KO or kill the hulk

and also THIS

And if both hulk and thor stop holding back, hulk will become durable enough to walk out of a planets destruction, without even a scratch. Also, while thor is the god of thunder, I don't think he can replicate zeus powerful lightnings, but just to put it out there, zeus was using his skyfather powers to weaken hulks durability, strength and HF.

also i'll adress you're void argument as well and say again that sentry wanted to get hurt, but i understand what you are saying, however i think hulk can take the damage, if we look at the scans i've posted above.

CONCLUSION!

Now, in conclusion i'd like t present the scenario of how things will go in my opinion. Hulk and thor will no undoubtedly start by brawling , and as the fight goes on, hulk will dominate the physical fight considering his rage, durability, strength, and HF, as thor realizes that he cannot win this way, he will proceed to use his other powers, however, at this time, the hulks anger would have reached a very high level, and thor would have been very bruised and hurt by the damage caused to him, so it will be much more esiaer for hulk to knock thor out of the air and hurt him badly. Hulks power is already immense now imagine how powerful the hulk would be if he were to get even madder. his HF exceeds thors, and he can take a tons of damage before he goes down, but the difference is, and the key reason to why hulk wins, is because of the fact that he does not get tired, he doesn't stop, as the fight goes, hulk will get stronger, but thor will become weaker, and he won't be able to keep up with hulks HF.

Both fighters are good strategists, but thor has the egde here, his fighting skills are greater than hulks, but there is still one thing we should take into account, Savage hulk, a version of the hulk who isn't as smart as World bar/ or world breaker hulk, managed to last against thor even though thor was clearly more skilled than the hulk, and smarter for that matter. Now we have this new, more powerful hulk, who is faster, smarter, stronger, more durable and heals faster as the fight goes on. thor is tough foe, a very though foe, but hulk can take him, and beat him. Thors lighting won't be able to knock the hulk out, because he has taken worse, even as savage hulk, it will however cause hulk immense damage, but he will get angrier too, and in the end, while using an utilizing his power at his best, Hulk win win. Thats what makes the hulk so tough, thats what makes him so hard to beat, because he doesn't stay down, he gets stronger. Even the savage hulk who had trouble with the thing has moved his way up the food chain.

But if i even go by the "no Reason to hold back "argument , hulk will go world breaker, who is WAY more stronger than the average World war hulk, his rage didn;t seem to have any bound or limit, and his HF and durability was strong enough to walk out of a destruction of a planet, a destruction He caused with a shock wave while colliding with his wife WHO in fact was amped by HULK very one ENERGIES!

this is why i think the hulk wins, though it will be a great battle

PHEW. Okay Acid I'm good. We can keep going if you want, but if not, you get final post since I got the first one, and then we can let the good viners vote lol.
I enjoyed this a lot seeing as how i rarely ever get to debate a friend civilly like this. It usually turns into a flame war with me hugging my Mjolnir and the Hulk fan hugging his hulk gloves lol.

Nah man, i'm good , besides i can't go one, my fingers hurt XD! i;ve got to say though :P, this was one heck of a battle, we should do this again! i had tons of fun! ^__^ you are an excellent debator

it was awesome to have a nice civil debate, instead for " THOR WINZ WIT LITNINGU! or "HULK SMUSH TOR WIT LIMITLESS STREGHT! XD

wish there were more guys like us. ^__^

Oh and also, are you excited for the new upcoming thor and hulk team up?

#26 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I can safely say that this was one of the best argued, most reasonably conducted civil Hulk vs Thor debate. If every Hulk vs Thor debate was like this, the battle forums would be a much nicer place.

#27 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3226 posts) - - Show Bio

Two of my favorite intelligent posters debating...Keep up the good work guys!

#28 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3226 posts) - - Show Bio

Also 'TheAcidSkull' I'm having trouble opening the scans you posted.

#29 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

Also 'TheAcidSkull' I'm having trouble opening the scans you posted.

Use the button you scroll with, press it and it'll open in another tab ^__^

#30 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting is Now In Session!

Could you guys vote? :)

#31 Posted by Pyrogram (41269 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: Will do!

#32 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

I think I can safely say that this was one of the best argued, most reasonably conducted civil Hulk vs Thor debate. If every Hulk vs Thor debate was like this, the battle forums would be a much nicer place.

I agree.

#33 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

I would go with Fernando072295REBORN.

#34 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3226 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

Also 'TheAcidSkull' I'm having trouble opening the scans you posted.

Use the button you scroll with, press it and it'll open in another tab ^__^

Thanks man!

#35 Edited by SlimJ87D (10695 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: When Banner tech is more elaborated on will you be including that into your debate as well?

NVM, voting is being done.

#36 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3226 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm holding my vote for now...So far its been even IMO.

#37 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath:

woot! ^_^

#38 Posted by Lvenger (21143 posts) - - Show Bio

For someone I've never seen on the Vine before, Fernando held his own with his impressive Thor knowledge and excellent reasoning. I'll definitely be checking out some of your videos as a result of this debate! However, I have to say @TheAcidSkull: did the best job of turning Fernando's arguments on a head, exploring the Hulk's versatility of attacks and providing a comprehensive strategy of how the fight would go down and why Hulk would win. So my vote goes to TAS. As always the debate is the most important thing and this has been a cracking one.

#39 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: you did an amazing job. When it comes to debating or talking Hulk, I don't think I've ever seen someone who enjoys and knows the character as much as you, and it's a real pleasure to truly see the full might of the Hulk. I don't think anyone could have done a Hulk vs. Thor debate better than this.

@Fernando072295REBORN: It was a pleasure to read your rebuttals. Very respectful, not very much undermining, and really kept in mind the Hulk's strengths being presented and countered them well.

I have to say though, overall this was an amazing debate. But that last post by Fernando was beastly and nigh impossible to counter. So while I do commend an amazing debate from TheAcidSkull, I have to give this one to Fernado072295REBORN.

It was a pleasure to read this debate, and thanks to the both of you for calling me in here to vote, because it was a great debate to read.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#40 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

@TheAcidSkull: you did an amazing job. When it comes to debating or talking Hulk, I don't think I've ever seen someone who enjoys and knows the character as much as you, and it's a real pleasure to truly see the full might of the Hulk. I don't think anyone could have done a Hulk vs. Thor debate better than this.

@Fernando072295REBORN: It was a pleasure to read your rebuttals. Very respectful, not very much undermining, and really kept in mind the Hulk's strengths being presented and countered them well.

I have to say though, overall this was an amazing debate. But that last post by Fernando was beastly and nigh impossible to counter. So while I do commend an amazing debate from TheAcidSkull, I have to give this one to Fernado072295REBORN.

It was a pleasure to read this debate, and thanks to the both of you for calling me in here to vote, because it was a great debate to read.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Thank you for sharing your opinion my friend ^__^, and i am glad you enjoyed this debate ! and i agree, fernandos last argument was amazing!

thanks again :D

#41 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fernando072295REBORN said:

@ThunderGodsWrath:

woot! ^_^

lol

#42 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull:Meh. It all depends what that team up is going to do y'know? If it's thor and hulk out there getting some feats under their belts and showing off why they're the big hitters for the avengers, sure I'll give it a read and I think It'll be fun. But if is turns into an excuse to just have Hulk lift Mjolnir, I won't be very into it lol.

#43 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18673 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fernando072295REBORN said:

@TheAcidSkull:Meh. It all depends what that team up is going to do y'know? If it's thor and hulk out there getting some feats under their belts and showing off why they're the big hitters for the avengers, sure I'll give it a read and I think It'll be fun. But if is turns into an excuse to just have Hulk lift Mjolnir, I won't be very into it lol.

well this is mark waid, a very good and capable writer! we should trust him! i do! besides, we both know theres going to be a catch! :P

#44 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: Going to have to wait and see I guess lol. >_< Be sure to catch my hissy fit on youtube though if it tuns sour though haha.

#45 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay: thanks for taking the time to read through all of that. ^_^ Appreciate the vote.

#46 Posted by TrueMarvel (272 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is stronger than hulk when not holding back. Problem is... he always holds back

#47 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

@TrueMarvel: so read through the arguments and give a vote my friend ! :D

#48 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

Gotta go with Fernando072295REBORN, this coming from a huge hulk fan should mean a lot. Had this been 50/50 i would actually have given this to TheAcidSkull, not conciously but i have known and respected that guy for ages.

That being said, your last post is what really sealed the win, thats the best argument for why Thor would win Hulk i have ever seen.

#49 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Gotta go with Fernando072295REBORN, this coming from a huge hulk fan should mean a lot. Had this been 50/50 i would actually have given this to TheAcidSkull, not conciously but i have known and respected that guy for ages.

That being said, your last post is what really sealed the win, thats the best argument for why Thor would win Hulk i have ever seen.

You know what, I finally have a vote and I'm going with Fernando072295REBORN.

TheAcidSkull made some AMAZING points with why Hulk should win againt Thor. He is the one Hulk fan that actually got me back into being interested in Hulk. He actually educated me even more on the Hulk, but that last post by Fernando072295REBORN was just a deal changer. TheAcidSkull made some good points for Hulk against Thor better than anyone who ever has, but in the end that post by Fernando072295REBORN was just uncounterable...

#50 Posted by superman69 (334 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sure this has been done before too.

Thor would win.