@lvenger: Nice match up :P and feels like Deja Vu don't you think? All that waiting...
World War Hulk vs Mongul
@lvenger: Nice match up :P and feels like Deja Vu don't you think? All that waiting...
I had to talk to TheAcidSkull about previous suggestions like Thing vs Rulk and Hercules vs Lobo to see if they'd be fair but the one we were doing is fair. Also be wary of another Thor vs Hulk storm coming btw. I don't know if you read Thor GOT but in the latest issue, there's a development that might stoke the fires of that debate. Don't read if you don't want to be spoiled :P
Apparently Thor cuts loose and overpowers The Minotaur when he says he's comparable or equal in strength to the Hulk. This is gonna make things a bit tense on the battle forums suffice to say :P
@lvenger: I have GOT till Issue #20 i think, haven't read them though... Aaron's Thor is pretty cool and powerful. About that statement... I agree, it might heat things up... Which one are you arguing for?
@ghostravage: I'm not doing any arguing yet but even without that statement, I do fall on the Thor side of the argument. Only marginally though. Unlike with the DC powerhouses, he has no way of avoiding Hulk's attacks and although Thor's damage output does exceed Hulk's IMO, Hulk has more than enough ways to hurt Thor. It would always be a close contest no matter what but at the end of the day, the versatility Mjolnir offers could be enough to turn the tide. Even without Godblasts or Winds of a Thousand Worlds, Thor does have ways of hurting Hulk just as Hulk does of hurting Thor. It's a coin toss match up though.
@lvenger: Agreed. It will always be a toss up, though, i consider Thor below Hulk in physical prowess in modern days. Mjolnir though, covers it up with the striking force.
@lvenger: Agreed. It will always be a toss up, though, i consider Thor below Hulk in physical prowess in modern days. Mjolnir though, covers it up with the striking force.
Yeah Thor can't beat Hulk with his own physicals but Mjolnir does indeed make up the difference.
@lordraiden: Can't believe they are upset with Krypto for taking out Mongul.
I see them as pretty well matched in some cases. It really depends on which Mongul shows up to fight. Sometimes he's really tough other times he's kinda a jobber.
@lvenger: Agreed. It will always be a toss up, though, i consider Thor below Hulk in physical prowess in modern days. Mjolnir though, covers it up with the striking force.
Yeah Thor can't beat Hulk with his own physicals but Mjolnir does indeed make up the difference.
Agreed 100%
I really hope there isn't a flame war with Thor and hulk fans coming, the recent "Thor v Hulk who is the strongest thread turned ugly enough" Question to @ghostravage you are one of the most knowledgeable and reasonable Hulk fans out there, like myself you don't succumb to blind bias, but you don't frequent the Hulk forum to discuss Hulk stuff. Just wondered why? Are there some Hulk fans on there who you try and avoid or something? I mean, all characters have their fanboys...
..Back to this topic. I have seen a cheap copy of the Superman vs Mongul TP and I am gonna buy it. I really did love the early bad ass Mongul Sr, he was an absolute beast!
@bezza: Personally, i have my moments mate. Sometimes i lurk around the Hulk forums to see what's going on there. However, here in the Battle Forums is where the problem is... There's WAY too much instances used out of context or being flat out downplayed or overplayed.
If anything, my problem is with both Hulk fanboys and Hulk haters. I have no quarrels with people that just don't know about him but the people who doesn't know squat and is making very confident statements to whether overhype him or lowball him. In my opinion, ignorance towards Hulk is a no no... I consider Hulk one of the few characters who actually needs TONS of context to be argued decently, and that's where i interfere...
Thanks for the kind words mate. You're also a quite reasonable one too.
I understand what you are saying and the writers haven't helped our cause over the years, sometimes Hulk is insanely powerful (e,g WWH and WB Hulk) other times he has struggled to tag the likes of Spiderman and Wolverine....in fact I often think he is a bit of a "marmite" character, as people do have strong views one way or other.
The WWH would IMO take all the post crisis Monguls but after a seriously tough battle. The original Mongul SR would be out of his league. Mongul's a funny one himself. I was reading Superman Returns last night and he ended up as Cyborg's bitch!
@bezza said:
I understand what you are saying and the writers haven't helped our cause over the years, sometimes Hulk is insanely powerful (e,g WWH and WB Hulk) other times he has struggled to tag the likes of Spiderman and Wolverine....in fact I often think he is a bit of a "marmite" character, as people do have strong views one way or other.
I agree. To be perfectly honest, I thought the idea of WB Hulk was cool yet at the same time dumb because I felt like it was making him too powerful even for his own rouges. That being said, I don't like it when Hulk has a hard time against guys like Spiderman and Wolverine. Any sensible writer would know that Hulk would knock wolverine into the next state with one solid punch.
The WWH would IMO take all the post crisis Monguls but after a seriously tough battle. The original Mongul SR would be out of his league. Mongul's a funny one himself. I was reading Superman Returns last night and he ended up as Cyborg's bitch!
Yeah. I remember I first got into Mongul when I read about him in one of those DC encyclopedias. I thought he seemed pretty cool, so I started picking up his books. That's when I got frustrated with the fact that DC, for no apparent reason, nerfed him. I picked up his Post-Crisis stories first (Superman #32 was my first for Mongul Sr. and Green Lantern Corps #34 for Jr) and while both seemed tough, they truly paled in comparison to the glory that was Pre-Crisis Mongul.
My two favorites of his Pre-Crisis appearances are DC Comics Presents #43 and Superman Annual #11. DC Comics Presents had Mongul, not only take on Superman, but also the Justice League and the Legion of Superheroes. To sum it all up, he takes on 11 heroes in this one book and pretty much just beats the sh!t out of them before Superman finally manages to take him out. Mongul was a force to be reckoned with back in the day...until they had him kissing the fingers of Hank Henshaw...
Have you got the Superman vs Mongul TP? I've just sent for it, but I think it has that pre crisis Mongul story you are referring to. It is a pity he was so nerfed, as it was truly unique having a villain who actually revelled in tackling superman in a simple physical slugfest. Its good to meet someone else who likes Mongul, as he isn't a character who crops up on the Vine too often.
I understand what you are saying and the writers haven't helped our cause over the years, sometimes Hulk is insanely powerful (e,g WWH and WB Hulk) other times he has struggled to tag the likes of Spiderman and Wolverine....in fact I often think he is a bit of a "marmite" character, as people do have strong views one way or other.
The WWH would IMO take all the post crisis Monguls but after a seriously tough battle. The original Mongul SR would be out of his league. Mongul's a funny one himself. I was reading Superman Returns last night and he ended up as Cyborg's bitch!
I wouldn't think it is the writers fault that Hulk is so inconsistent in the views of people. Actually, when a writer takes a Hulk run, it often changes the incarnation or just creates a new one. Peter David did it (Professor Hulk), Greg Pak did it (Green Scar), Stan Lee did it (Mostly Savage and Banner Hulk), Bill Mantlo as well (Nutrient Bath Hulk) just to mention a few. The key while arguing Hulk is knowing how to classify the incarnations from weakest to strongest and from dumbest to smartest, because even though all feats are applicable to Hulk since most of them happened within Earth 616 continuity, you can't ignore the significant context behind like, Green Scar got a lot stronger than everybody because of the Sakaar core breach he went through in Planet Hulk which augmented his strength, or the fact Professor Hulk couldn't become stronger, or the fact Grey Hulk is the weakest of incarnations but is one of the most durable too... See my point? It's all about context, i don't think is necessarily because of the writers but for the most part, the user's misinterpretation.
About Hulk having trouble tagging Wolverine and Spiderman, i don't consider that PIS. Both Wolverine and Spiderman are ridiculously skilled and are bullet timers, dodgers, deflectors and whatnot with their eyes closed, let alone lasers which they dodge on regular basis. It's not so far fetched that Hulk has trouble catching them, specially Spider-Man with his Spider Sense. That said, they struggle to a unbearable degree while fighting Hulk and ultimately they get caught by him. Hell, Wolverine has been caught off the bat while trying to avoid him 3 times and Hulk pretty much overpowered Spider-man's Spider Sense 2 times already. They dodge him because they are skilled, not because they are fast... See my point? However, people like Superman would dodge him because they are fast, not because they are skilled which only makes things harder for Hulk.
I understand what you are saying and the writers haven't helped our cause over the years, sometimes Hulk is insanely powerful (e,g WWH and WB Hulk) other times he has struggled to tag the likes of Spiderman and Wolverine....in fact I often think he is a bit of a "marmite" character, as people do have strong views one way or other.
The WWH would IMO take all the post crisis Monguls but after a seriously tough battle. The original Mongul SR would be out of his league. Mongul's a funny one himself. I was reading Superman Returns last night and he ended up as Cyborg's bitch!
I wouldn't think it is the writers fault that Hulk is so inconsistent in the views of people. Actually, when a writer takes a Hulk run, it often changes the incarnation or just creates a new one. Peter David did it (Professor Hulk), Greg Pak did it (Green Scar), Stan Lee did it (Mostly Savage and Banner Hulk), Bill Mantlo as well (Nutrient Bath Hulk) just to mention a few. The key while arguing Hulk is knowing how to classify the incarnations from weakest to strongest and from dumbest to smartest, because even though all feats are applicable to Hulk since most of them happened within Earth 616 continuity, you can't ignore the significant context behind like, Green Scar got a lot stronger than everybody because of the Sakaar core breach he went through in Planet Hulk which augmented his strength, or the fact Professor Hulk couldn't become stronger, or the fact Grey Hulk is the weakest of incarnations but is one of the most durable too... See my point? It's all about context, i don't think is necessarily because of the writers but for the most part, the user's misinterpretation.
About Hulk having trouble tagging Wolverine and Spiderman, i don't consider that PIS. Both Wolverine and Spiderman are ridiculously skilled and are bullet timers, dodgers, deflectors and whatnot with their eyes closed, let alone lasers which they dodge on regular basis. It's not so far fetched that Hulk has trouble catching them, specially Spider-Man with his Spider Sense. That said, they struggle to a unbearable degree while fighting Hulk and ultimately they get caught by him. Hell, Wolverine has been caught off the bat while trying to avoid him 3 times and Hulk pretty much overpowered Spider-man's Spider Sense 2 times already. They dodge him because they are skilled, not because they are fast... See my point? However, people like Superman would dodge him because they are fast, not because they are skilled which only makes things harder for Hulk.
Which issue does it state that? I don't remember it augmenting his strength off hand, but could have missed it. Thanks. I do remember him getting weaker as when he first arrived through that portal.
@green_skaar: It's in World War Hulk: Gamma Files
This is a permanent change for Hulk, that the reason Hulk Asunder was shaking the world so easily with punches, or because Indestructible Hulk was seemingly operating on stellar scale without losing control.
You can see the CaV where i used it here... Hulk vs Black Adam
@green_skaar: It's in World War Hulk: Gamma Files
This is a permanent change for Hulk, that the reason Hulk Asunder was shaking the world so easily with punches, or because Indestructible Hulk was seemingly operating on stellar scale without losing control.
You can see the CaV where i used it here... Hulk vs Black Adam
Just to add to this marvel fact files says the same thing:
@jashro44: Thank you very much Jash, always appreciated. Also, could you cite the book you got that info from, might be useful to showcase consistency.
LOL lets not go there right now.
@jashro44: Thank you very much Jash, always appreciated. Also, could you cite the book you got that info from, might be useful to showcase consistency.
Marvel Fact Files is where I got it from. And no problem.
EDIT: Issue 5 of marvel fact files.
@jashro44: Thanks again!
@ghostravage: No problem!
Have you got the Superman vs Mongul TP? I've just sent for it, but I think it has that pre crisis Mongul story you are referring to. It is a pity he was so nerfed, as it was truly unique having a villain who actually revelled in tackling superman in a simple physical slugfest. Its good to meet someone else who likes Mongul, as he isn't a character who crops up on the Vine too often.
No actually. I got each of my issues individually. Though I have read about what you are referring to and IIRC I'ts suppose to have his Pre-Crisis appearances. I really liked the idea of having a character who was very large and powerful but didn't come off as just another brute. He was highly intelligent and would use it to his advantage. He would deal with Superman by using his cunning, and if that didn't work (most times because of Kal's allies) he would then resort to pure brute force and utterly annihilate.
Do you know which issue you can find the episode where Superman was put into the gladiatorial arena on WarWorld and was nearly killed by Mongul before escaping?
..and yes the mix of absolute brute strength, intelligence and cunning is appealing. That's why its a good match up, him and Hulk!
PS, just noticed that the TP I have ordered has DC Comics presents # 27/28, 36 & 43, Plus Superman annual #11. The best of pre crisis Mongul Sr, in other words Can't wait for it to arrive now!
@bezza said:
Do you know which issue you can find the episode where Superman was put into the gladiatorial arena on WarWorld and was nearly killed by Mongul before escaping?
The issue when Superman fights Mongul in the the gladiatorial games is Superman #32 and the episodes of the Justice League cartoon are 12 and 13. (SPOILER WARNING) The book was good yet at the same time disappointing. When Superman continually refuses to kill his opponents it infuriates Mongul. He then openly challenges him in front of the entire crowd. Mongul then teleports into the arena and beats the crap out of Superman.
The fight was highly one-sided in Monguls favor (as it should be) and Superman started believe that he probably wouldn't be able to take Mongul even if he was at his prime. Eventually the ass whoopin' came to an end.
Mongul takes Superman and the former champion Draaga prisoner. This is when it got really odd. Logically, Superman lost very easily because of his lack of contact with yellow sun rays; however, he still believed that Mongul may be too powerful for him even if he did have contact. For some reason during their rematch down in the chambers, Superman took Mongul out with a solid Punch to the face.
This was basically the start of Monguls Jobbing.
..and yes the mix of absolute brute strength, intelligence and cunning is appealing. That's why its a good match up, him and Hulk!
Indeed!
PS, just noticed that the TP I have ordered has DC Comics presents # 27/28, 36 & 43, Plus Superman annual #11. The best of pre crisis Mongul Sr, in other words Can't wait for it to arrive now!
Hell yeah!
I assume you mean this issue from 1989? So this was the post crisis Mongul and the start of a long and continuous decline in Mongul's standing vs Superman and others. Disappointing or not, I might get me a copy of this issue, thanks!
Can you answer me another thing? Does Mongul have a healing factor like Hulk or is he just really tough? In that earlier scan you posted, we see him clearly recover from being stabbed by Wonder Woman with a sword....her sword is known to be magical and can even cut Superman, so impressive recovery.
@bezza: Based off of battles that he has took part in and the wounds he's sustained during those battles, I'd say he definitely has a healing factor but it can only go so far and work so fast. Prime examples are his battles with the Lanterns. In a fight with Hal Jordan, he was impaled multiple times through out his body; however, it did not kill him. He was briefly incapacitated, and by the next issue when they had round two, The holes appeared to be in the process of closing and he was moving as if he was never hurt at all. There was also his brutal battle with Arkillo. They agreed not to use the power of their rings, and the ensuing fight nearly leveled the entire city around them. In the end, Mongul stood triumphant over Arkillo
Those very same wounds would later disappear.
Despite his healing capabilities he seams incapable of regaining things that have been completely lost. Mongul would eventually lose his left eye during his battles and was unable to regrow it.
I understand what you are saying and the writers haven't helped our cause over the years, sometimes Hulk is insanely powerful (e,g WWH and WB Hulk) other times he has struggled to tag the likes of Superman and Wolverine....in fact I often think he is a bit of a "marmite" character, as people do have strong views one way or other.
The WWH would IMO take all the post crisis Monguls but after a seriously tough battle. The original Mongul SR would be out of his league. Mongul's a funny one himself. I was reading Superman Returns last night and he ended up as Cyborg's bitch!
I wouldn't think it is the writers fault that Hulk is so inconsistent in the views of people. Actually, when a writer takes a Hulk run, it often changes the incarnation or just creates a new one. Peter David did it (Professor Hulk), Greg Pak did it (Green Scar), Stan Lee did it (Mostly Savage and Banner Hulk), Bill Mantlo as well (Nutrient Bath Hulk) just to mention a few. The key while arguing Hulk is knowing how to classify the incarnations from weakest to strongest and from dumbest to smartest, because even though all feats are applicable to Hulk since most of them happened within Earth 616 continuity, you can't ignore the significant context behind like, Green Scar got a lot stronger than everybody because of the Sakaar core breach he went through in Planet Hulk which augmented his strength, or the fact Professor Hulk couldn't become stronger, or the fact Grey Hulk is the weakest of incarnations but is one of the most durable too... See my point? It's all about context, i don't think is necessarily because of the writers but for the most part, the user's misinterpretation.
About Hulk having trouble tagging Wolverine and Superman, i don't consider that PIS. Both Wolverine and Superman are ridiculously skilled and are bullet timers, dodgers, deflectors and whatnot with their eyes closed, let alone lasers which they dodge on regular basis. It's not so far fetched that Hulk has trouble catching them, specially Spider-Man with his Spider Sense. That said, they struggle to a unbearable degree while fighting Hulk and ultimately they get caught by him. Hell, Wolverine has been caught off the bat while trying to avoid him 3 times and Hulk pretty much overpowered Spider-man's Spider Sense 2 times already. They dodge him because they are skilled, not because they are fast... See my point? However, people like Superman would dodge him because they are fast, not because they are skilled which only makes things harder for Hulk.
this
@jagernutt: You edited it.
I agree with him too! @ghostravage talks a lot of sense...!!
Mongul that kicked the crap out of Wonder Woman?
Mongul that tanks heat vision from Superman and then sends him flying with a punch?
Mongul that can take on five, six Green Lanterns at once and give them a good fight?
Yeah, I don't think World War Hulk has anything on him. Not even close.
This
Also I remember a comic when I was around 13 in 2006 where Mongul was owning Superman and it was only later that Superman was able to push through his limits and beat Mongul, Mongul is tough and badass. I don't think World War Hulk would've been able to beat Superman as much as Mongul did in that comic
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