World War Hulk vs JLA B-Team

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willpayton

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@willpayton: Judging from those....yeah Hulk can turn Aquaman into paste. He wasn't nearly fast enough to be someone who can simply dodge Hulk all day.

Also the fundamental forces statement is, again, very vague and doesn't actually mean much.

The best speed/reaction feat of Hulk I've seen is him catching a bullet, but that was like 40 years old (maybe more). Old feats, especially one-off feats are not very convincing. I havent seen anything to suggest that he's much faster than, say Wolverine.

The thing about the fundamental forces is simply to illustrate that N'th metal has a lot of different properties. It can hurt people even if they're not magical in nature because of those properties, as well as the fact that it's an extremely tough metal.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

@willpayton: Judging from those....yeah Hulk can turn Aquaman into paste. He wasn't nearly fast enough to be someone who can simply dodge Hulk all day.

Also the fundamental forces statement is, again, very vague and doesn't actually mean much.

The best speed/reaction feat of Hulk I've seen is him catching a bullet, but that was like 40 years old (maybe more). Old feats, especially one-off feats are not very convincing. I havent seen anything to suggest that he's much faster than, say Wolverine.

The thing about the fundamental forces is simply to illustrate that N'th metal has a lot of different properties. It can hurt people even if they're not magical in nature because of those properties, as well as the fact that it's an extremely tough metal.

Again, hitting so many fast people is a speed feat, at least for combat. It's consistent. He's also been said to move "lightning fast" back in the day and had his opponent claim that "no one moves that fast". Recently, he's been moving in a blur of speed, comparable to speedster like Quicksilver. He's definitely fast enough to hit Aquaman.

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willpayton

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#104  Edited By willpayton

@willpayton said:

@green_skaar said:

@willpayton said:

@green_skaar said:

WWH he's a team buster and beat guys/teams way superior to these folks.

Examples? Examples that dont include PIS that is.

Have your read the entire World War arc? Be honest. I'm having my doubts you'd be asking this if you have.

World War Hulk is a PIS-fest.

Thanks, now I know to disregard your views in this thread. I stand by my original statement.

Disregard whatever you want. You made a statement, I asked for evidence, you've provided none.

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willpayton

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Again, hitting so many fast people is a speed feat, at least for combat. It's consistent. He's also been said to move "lightning fast" back in the day and had his opponent claim that "no one moves that fast". Recently, he's been moving in a blur of speed, comparable to speedster like Quicksilver. He's definitely fast enough to hit Aquaman.

Hitting fast people is not necessarily a speed feat. Fast people get hit all the time. Superman is near Flash speed, and he gets hit all the time. This applies to almost everyone in comics, even Flash and Zoom. The main cause is usually plot.

Statements by characters are not evidence of speed, especially when those statements are hyperbole.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@darkraiden:

WWH should be able to break Guy's constructs (and if he doesn't it'll just make him madder), can oneshot Aquaman, beat Hawkman into the ground, and take on Steele ventually. If he turns WB, the gamma wave should solo.

I thought about this. The Hulk wouldn't one-shot Aquaman. In a protracted h2h battle, I agree that he would win that type of conflict eventually. But if this is Pre-Flashpoint Aquaman, he wouldn't just have the Waterbearer, he'd also have the Trident of Poseidon. And his TP. I know, I know, Marvel decided that the Hulk wouldn't be allowed to be mind zapped during the WWH storyarc (*sigh..*) But one shotting a guy who tanks amazing levels of blunt force? Sorry, Charlie. There is also the possibility of the Ring calculating the maximum amount of durability of its target and firing its "Killshot". "Killshot" is an ingrained ability in all of the Rings that has to be authorized before using to destroy the target despite its ability to resist damage. It's an often unused tactic, due to its drastic and devastating outcome, but it is available to Guy and he has used it before when he felt his back was up against the wall. Hawkman has gone toe to toe with "Teambreaker Grundy, Black Adam, Despero, etc, and done way better than he "should have". Similar to Wolverine in the same types of situations, he rises to the occasion. He could also pass off his bladed weapons and/or the Claw of Horus to one or more of his teammates that are stronger than he is.

Gamma radiation would be absorbed by Steel's armor, Guy's Ring, would be completely ignored by the RT's android body (not to mention his mystical essence contained therein), Aquaman's Trident can generate force fields, and he might temporarily sicken Hawkman long enough to take him off the board. Until his healing factor kicks in that is...

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden:

WWH should be able to break Guy's constructs (and if he doesn't it'll just make him madder), can oneshot Aquaman, beat Hawkman into the ground, and take on Steele ventually. If he turns WB, the gamma wave should solo.

I thought about this. The Hulk wouldn't one-shot Aquaman. In a protracted h2h battle, I agree that he would win that type of conflict eventually. But if this is Pre-Flashpoint Aquaman, he wouldn't just have the Waterbearer, he'd also have the Trident of Poseidon. And his TP. I know, I know, Marvel decided that the Hulk wouldn't be allowed to be mind zapped during the WWH storyarc (*sigh..*) But one shotting a guy who tanks amazing levels of blunt force? Sorry, Charlie. There is also the possibility of the Ring calculating the maximum amount of durability of its target and firing its "Killshot". "Killshot" is an ingrained ability in all of the Rings that has to be authorized before using to destroy the target despite its ability to resist damage. It's an often unused tactic, due to its drastic and devastating outcome, but it is available to Guy and he has used it before when he felt his back was up against the wall. Hawkman has gone toe to toe with "Teambreaker Grundy, Black Adam, Despero, etc, and done way better than he "should have". Similar to Wolverine in the same types of situations, he rises to the occasion. He could also pass off his bladed weapons and/or the Claw of Horus to one or more of his teammates that are stronger than he is.

Gamma radiation would be absorbed by Steel's armor, Guy's Ring, would be completely ignored by the RT's android body (not to mention his mystical essence contained therein), Aquaman's Trident can generate force fields, and he might temporarily sicken Hawkman long enough to take him off the board. Until his healing factor kicks in that is...

The gamma wave destroyed a planet. The radiation is less important than the force and power generated by it.

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DeathandGrim

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#108  Edited By DeathandGrim

@deathandgrim said:

When are people gonna realize Hulk is low tier?

He's good against physical brawlers but not much else

Hulk is most certainly not a low tier character.

@theacidskull@dum529001 I don't have any scans could you be so kind as to provide some high level feats?

- Pip

@pipxeroth: will do. when i get home

@deathandgrim said:

When are people gonna realize Hulk is low tier?

He's good against physical brawlers but not much else

he's in the big legues, whether you like it or not

Which high tiers can he actually face without getting raped? I'm curious

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comic_book_fan

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hulk wins.

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DeathandGrim

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#111  Edited By DeathandGrim

@theacidskull: So we're talking upper mid tier at best, his strength and durability are wave above most mortals and on par with many immortals. But He doesn't have what the high tiers have outside of strength. His speed isn't that great and his mind is on auto-pilot and he lacks other abilities other than god tier strength. But who else has god tier strength? God tiers.

But however, his strength feats are god damn impressive, I'll give him that.

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comic_book_fan

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hulk is a superman Doomesday level character he reacts fast enough to stop missiles he is a plot device in strength he is not meant to lose in a physical fight he does sometime for plot but he can do impossible things with sheer strength his reflexes regeneration and his durability all increase with his strength nobody in this fight can match him.

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willpayton

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And in this case, Guy, or the others for that matter wouldn't be able to do Sh*t to him considering that he has taken immense amounts of beating throughout the course of WWH.

The biggest beating he took was from Sentry, but even then the amounts of energy being released were at best on the city-destroying level. And... what happened? Hulk was turned back to Banner. Guy is quite capable of unleashing that level of power and more.

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comic_book_fan

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#115  Edited By comic_book_fan

@willpayton:

hulk has destroyed cities him self by stomping his feet and that's regular hulk when mad.

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willpayton

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@willpayton:

hulk has destroyed cities him self by stomping his feet and that's regular hulk when mad.

Scans?

In any case, even World Breaker Hulk was at most able to threaten the Eastern Seaboard when he was fully unleashing his power. That's something that top-tier Lanterns are capable of, and more.

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green_skaar

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#117  Edited By green_skaar

@willpayton said:

@comic_book_fan said:

@willpayton:

hulk has destroyed cities him self by stomping his feet and that's regular hulk when mad.

Scans?

In any case, even World Breaker Hulk was at most able to threaten the Eastern Seaboard when he was fully unleashing his power. That's something that top-tier Lanterns are capable of, and more.

When WBH threatened the Eastern Seaboard it was with a single step, while holding back. Later when WBH didn't hold back the planet he was on blew up. To top it off he wasn't even targeting the planet with his punch. Stop low-balling.

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comic_book_fan

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#118  Edited By comic_book_fan
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comic_book_fan

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willpayton

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@willpayton:

do I need more cause I have tons

No, those are enough. It shows that he can stomp his feet and punch buildings and things and destroy them if he does it enough. That just shows his strength, which I dont doubt. That's nice, no doubt, but also something a top-tier Lantern would have no problem doing as well.

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comic_book_fan

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#121  Edited By comic_book_fan

@willpayton:

ww hulk is much stronger than that version and there he destroyed a city and was causing earthquakes and that hulk was just his basic stuff he has also ripped energy fields like a sheet and punched through time shields he is a walking plot device with his strength.

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willpayton

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@willpayton:

ww hulk is much stronger than that version and there he destroyed a city and was causing earthquakes and that hulk was just his basic stuff he has also ripped energy fields like a sheet and punched through time shields he is a walking plot device with his strength.

Yes, but even that walking plot device got beat by Sentry into changing back to Banner.

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comic_book_fan

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@willpayton:

he beat sentry in that and sentry is a superman level character that was also using emotion manipulation to constantly weaken ww hulk through out the fight and still lost no one here is on his level.

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kgb725

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Hulk

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comic_book_fan

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to me ww hulk is the third strongest incarnation but he is still more then enough to take down these guys.

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Lvenger

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Because after the success that was Thor vs JLA B Team, we needed this back again -_-

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Wolverine008

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LOL, these type of threads never end well :D

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green_skaar

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@lvenger said:

Because after the success that was Thor vs JLA B Team, we needed this back again -_-

Haha! So true.

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HeraldofGanthet

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@darkraiden: The gamma wave destroyed a planet. The radiation is less important than the force and power generated by it.

Okay. That's nothing a trained Green Lantern (which Guy certainly qualifies as) couldn't survive and/or roll with the impact and then counter-attack from. Red Tornado would be unleashed as his true self if the Hulk could actually destroy his android body indefinitely (good luck with that one due to his healing factor), Hawkman has already proven he can survive in the vacuum of space for hours before detrimental effects would happen, and Steel's armor is fully capable of withstanding both the vacuum of space, and direct blows from certified planet-busters in their own right. The only person in any danger from such an attack would be Aquaman, and Guy could easily wrap an Aura around him to protect him from space. IFit ever came to that....

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willpayton

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#131  Edited By willpayton

@willpayton:

he beat sentry in that and sentry is a superman level character that was also using emotion manipulation to constantly weaken ww hulk through out the fight and still lost no one here is on his level.

Guy Gardner is close to that level. But, whether any one person on the team is at Sentry's level is irrelevant because the battle is not a 1-on-1. It's the team against Hulk. Also, this is a team who have a history of working together in the JLA, and they even get some amount of prep time to plan a coherent tactic. If you keep ignoring that and insist that Hulk can just beat any individual in the team, it only weakens your argument.

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comic_book_fan

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@willpayton:

they have one minute to prepare and hawkman and guy gardner are likely to just rush hulk which would not go well for them and it would only be a matter of time before he got them all.

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willpayton

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@willpayton:

they have one minute to prepare and hawkman and guy gardner are likely to just rush hulk which would not go well for them and it would only be a matter of time before he got them all.

I would agree on Guy and Hawkman rushing in if either 1) they were bloodlusted, or 2) it was a random encounter. But, neither of those apply. Everyone is in character and they have time to plan, and they have Aquaman and Steel there to lead the battle. The JLA has decades of experience with teamwork, so you cant just dismiss it by saying that Guy or HM would rush in.

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comic_book_fan

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@willpayton:

but it's a minute of prep time what could they possibly come up with.

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willpayton

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@willpayton:

but it's a minute of prep time what could they possibly come up with.

A skilled tactician could easily come up with a plan of attack in much less time. If I can do it, so can Aquaman. The main thing would simply be to assign everyone a task and make sure they do it... in other words, teamwork. That's the key to the team having a chance here, well... combined with the fact that they have a wide variety of powers at their disposal.

For example: Red Tornado could whip up a tornado to lift Hulk off the ground and immobilize him. Guy could either further help to immobilize him by placing a construct around his head, wrists, etc. Aquaman can mentally attack him, or magically try to drain all the water from his body. While that's all happening, Steel and Hawkman can combine their physical attacks, hitting him at the same time over and over. If that's not all working, Guy can take all his available power and go for a kill shot. Remember Lanterns have been able to destroy planets, move the Earth, shield from nuclear explosions and supernovae, and blow holes in people like Amazo, Kilowog, Mongul, and Krona.

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pipxeroth

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@comic_book_fan said:

@willpayton:

but it's a minute of prep time what could they possibly come up with.

A skilled tactician could easily come up with a plan of attack in much less time. If I can do it, so can Aquaman. The main thing would simply be to assign everyone a task and make sure they do it... in other words, teamwork. That's the key to the team having a chance here, well... combined with the fact that they have a wide variety of powers at their disposal.

For example: Red Tornado could whip up a tornado to lift Hulk off the ground and immobilize him. Guy could either further help to immobilize him by placing a construct around his head, wrists, etc. Aquaman can mentally attack him, or magically try to drain all the water from his body. While that's all happening, Steel and Hawkman can combine their physical attacks, hitting him at the same time over and over. If that's not all working, Guy can take all his available power and go for a kill shot. Remember Lanterns have been able to destroy planets, move the Earth, shield from nuclear explosions and supernovae, and blow holes in people like Amazo, Kilowog, Mongul, and Krona.

I doubt Aqauaman's telepathy would work against hulk.

- Pip

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GhostRider29

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#137  Edited By GhostRider29

WWH would put up a fight, but loses around 6/10 times.

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dondave

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@lvenger said:

Because after the success that was Thor vs JLA B Team, we needed this back again -_-

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willpayton

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#139  Edited By willpayton

I doubt Aqauaman's telepathy would work against hulk.

- Pip

Depends on what you mean by "work". Telepathy is not an on/off thing. Even for WWH, telepathy still has some effect... even if it's just him spending a few seconds fighting it off. Point is he has to contend with it, while at the same time dealing with everything else from the team.

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pipxeroth

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@pipxeroth said:

I doubt Aqauaman's telepathy would work against hulk.

- Pip

Depends on what you mean by "work". Telepathy is not an on/off thing. Even for WWH, telepathy still has some effect... even if it's just him spending a few seconds fighting it off. Point is he has to contend with it, while at the same time dealing with everything else from the team.

He doesn't 'contend' with it. He naturally resists it. Even Professor X couldn't get through to hulk.

- Pip

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dum529001

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#141  Edited By dum529001

wow.

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GhostRavage

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@willpayton: He is faster than any street leveler... His combat speed has increased tremendously in his current version, he was speeblitzing some radioactively enhanced Cowboys that were faster than bullets.

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cyborgzod

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Have to go with the team FTW.

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ForeverEvil

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team

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#146  Edited By dondave

Team

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serrure

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#147  Edited By serrure

lolz i just read the comment where he called Hulk "low tier" and then proceded to say Thor, Hyperion, Sentry, Odin and such are "Mid-Tier"

god i love the vine

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mohammed_alg_92

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WWH

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Kingant27

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WWH wins.

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KingOfKings1

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Hulk may win but not easily