#1 Posted by Voltron214 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

   
I'm a big fan of these 2. I want to hear your opinions. What if during the World War Hulk series, Zarathos took over during their encounter and actually fought the Hulk with morals off and fight until the other one is no longer able to continue. Who would win? Why/how? 
 
The battle takes place in New York city. Just imagine if Zarathos didn't took off and decided to put a stop on the Hulk's rampage.

#2 Posted by Valtot (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

ghost rider
#3 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7184 posts) - - Show Bio

Zarathos.
#4 Posted by Voltron214 (18 posts) - - Show Bio
@Valtot:
Why and how exactly will the Ghost Rider overcome WWH in this fight?
#5 Posted by Pokeysteve (7073 posts) - - Show Bio
@Voltron214 said:
"   I'm a big fan of these 2. I want to hear your opinions. What if during the World War Hulk series, Zarathos took over during their encounter and actually fought the Hulk with morals off and fight until the other one is no longer able to continue. Who would win? Why/how?  The battle takes place in New York city. Just imagine if Zarathos didn't took off and decided to put a stop on the Hulk's rampage. "

There is nothing Hulk can do to keep GR down. It's either a stalemate or GR wins with Hellfire (Hulk has a soul) or Penance Stare.
#6 Posted by Voltron214 (18 posts) - - Show Bio
@Pokeysteve:
Sorry if this sounds a little noob, can't Hulk resist Penance Stare by raging? Just like what he did to Strange when he visited him in the dream or like Hulk vs Thor where Loki was thrown off by trying to control the Hulk? I don't know if that counts.
#7 Edited by Achilles. (3847 posts) - - Show Bio

Ghost Rider....

#8 Posted by Dark King (3727 posts) - - Show Bio

cover art is not evidence..
 
Ghostrider's potential is theoretical and hyperbole he hasnt shown the power to actually take down Hulk let alone WWH..

#9 Posted by Voltron214 (18 posts) - - Show Bio
@Achilles.:
They should've played out the battle and not let Zarathos run just like that. The fight would've been pretty epic.
#10 Posted by Voltron214 (18 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King:
So who do you think would win and how?
#11 Posted by Dark King (3727 posts) - - Show Bio

Zarathos is evil and wouldnt care if he was guilty or innocent... pretty sure current GR is not powered by Zarathos at all and is an angel of heaven of sorts angel of vengeance...
 
Zarathos has nothing to do with him in the WWH story as it was the Ghost rider taking full control being unleashed without Johnny Blaze limitation.

#12 Posted by Pokeysteve (7073 posts) - - Show Bio
@Voltron214 said:
"@Pokeysteve: Sorry if this sounds a little noob, can't Hulk resist Penance Stare by raging? Just like what he did to Strange when he visited him in the dream or like Hulk vs Thor where Loki was thrown off by trying to control the Hulk? I don't know if that counts. "

It's all right. I'm a noob myself when it comes to most Marvel stuff. Punisher and Ghost Rider being the exceptions. The truth is who knows if the stare or Hellfire would work. It was just a suggestion. I'm pretty sure Hulk not being able to even hurt GR is fact though. Hopefully some more well read Marvel guys will confirm or deny. It's what I think though. Zarathos is one powerful SOB according to Doc Strange.
#13 Posted by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio

 
The Demonic entity of pure Hellfire is simply beyond Hulk in terms of power in my opinion .

Zarathos with morals off and free from mortal restraint would have his vengeance wether Hulk liked it or not.  
If Hulk were to continue to walk that path, he would find that only pain awaits him.
Hulk may be Rage incarnate ... but in the eyes of the Rider there is no Absolution without a price to pay.

 
#14 Posted by MarvelJackAss433 (12238 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King:
That's not cover art.
#15 Edited by Dark King (3727 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by MarvelJackAss433 (12238 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King:
I saw the art being drawn on youtube and assumed,sorry,but don't get rash 
#17 Edited by Dark King (3727 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm sorry but have started to grow upset since coming back to the vs forum and realizing ppl havent actually read or know the character at all and are given opinions as if it is supported by evidence and history which it is not..... "I feel like the guy from Zoolander, Mugato: "em i the only one who sees this?!"
 
it frustrates me having to give factual history of the character and it being ignored because no one has posted it on the profile page as if that actually sums up the whole of the character.
 
but i am sorry i apologize if i made you feel uncomfortable..

#18 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Zarathos isn't part of Ghost Rider and hasn't been since most of you were born. 
 
That said, the Rider could still kill the Hulk.  Strange says as much in the issue where they fight and Hulk  wasn't able to do actual damage to Ghost Rider.
#19 Posted by Susanoo (5909 posts) - - Show Bio

Rider wins. He's virtually immortal and immune to physical damage.
#20 Posted by Dark King (3727 posts) - - Show Bio

but that wasn't standard ghost rider and it was only strange's opinion aside from that GR lacked any feats and repeated pounding will tire the rider eventually ko'ing him.. 
 
i say the last part b/c ppl have this misconception that he is incapable of being ko'ed which he has..
 
the only impressive thing unleash Rider did was rev his engine..... normal rider was just trying to stop hulk tying the chain to the subway cart and that was more impressive for the hulk then the rider.

#21 Posted by GhostPool (663 posts) - - Show Bio

GR vs WWH comic only showed how Johny Blaze controlled the GR. if GR was in control of THE GR GR would've undoubtly beaten Hulk.
#22 Posted by Dark King (3727 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostPool said:
" GR vs WWH comic only showed how Johny Blaze controlled the GR. if GR was in control of THE GR GR would've undoubtly beaten Hulk. "
with what feats? nothing but assumption of power via hyperbole of a third party.
#23 Posted by Snickersss (253 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk would win, since believe it or not his soul is still clean or good. He does not kill people and during WWH he had a pretty good reason to be angry. They fought on Ghost Rider and the Hulk won, or at least would of won had the kept fighting.
#24 Posted by GhostPool (663 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King said:
" @GhostPool said:
" GR vs WWH comic only showed how Johny Blaze controlled the GR. if GR was in control of THE GR GR would've undoubtly beaten Hulk. "
with what feats? nothing but assumption of power via hyperbole of a third party. "

Ghost Rider is techincaly Immortal  
He controls Hell-Fire that is able to hurt Divine Beings 
His Chain is stornger than anything on Earth  
If you Read the comic of when he fought WWH in the begining Johny is argueing with THE GR if to interfere with Hulk  
After Johny transformed to GR against the will of the GR that is inside him Johny was in control making the GR less powered  
And Johny Almost Beat WWH Imagine if GR was in full control  
The Whole Penenace Stare though will not work on Hulk dude to that Hulk did not Kill Innocent ppl or like others said he had every right to be angry
#25 Posted by JediXMan (28063 posts) - - Show Bio

Ghost Rider.

#26 Posted by spiderbuck (2406 posts) - - Show Bio
@Snickersss said:
" Hulk would win, since believe it or not his soul is still clean or good. He does not kill people and during WWH he had a pretty good reason to be angry. They fought on Ghost Rider and the Hulk won, or at least would of won had the kept fighting. "
 
I don't know about that.... He's got some guilt for sure over many things in his past.  Hurting Rick, Betty's death, the destruction of Sa'akar, his sons, etc.  
#27 Posted by God_Spawn (36011 posts) - - Show Bio

Ghostrider should be able to win this

Moderator
#28 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@Dark King said:
"but that wasn't standard ghost rider and it was only strange's opinion aside from that GR lacked any feats and repeated pounding will tire the rider eventually ko'ing him..   i say the last part b/c ppl have this misconception that he is incapable of being ko'ed which he has..  the only impressive thing unleash Rider did was rev his engine..... normal rider was just trying to stop hulk tying the chain to the subway cart and that was more impressive for the hulk then the rider. "

How about beating up a guy who conquered Heaven?  Beating up Satan?  Taking everything the Hulk could dish out and healing it all instantly?  Making the Hulk scream in pain?  Staring down the Hulk and making him flinch?  How're those for feats?
 
You seem to not understand how the Rider's powers work and that's okay.  I mean, you're the guy that low balled Ghost Rider so much as to say you thought Wolverine could beat him.
#29 Posted by RamsesII (199 posts) - - Show Bio

That comic book was bad writeing i mean look 
Ghost rider can lift around 5 tons<Hulk strength is limitless,infinite, ever lasting goes on forever 
Hell Fire > Thunder clap thunder clap is pretty strong but hell fire burns the soul AND the body but hulks durability and healing would over come it 
GR durability < Hulks durability, he has tooken hits that would of destroyed the earth. 
GR speed (motorcycle) < Hulks speed he can RUN at 300 mph and leap very very very far. 
stamina TIE 
Chain < Hulks hand, hulk has defeated ONLSAUGHT and pretty sure ghosty couldnt
#30 Posted by termiteone4ever (6693 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL The rider got this

#31 Posted by jasraj (4728 posts) - - Show Bio
Hulk literally rips him apart
#32 Posted by Voltron214 (18 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:
" Zarathos isn't part of Ghost Rider and hasn't been since most of you were born.  That said, the Rider could still kill the Hulk.  Strange says as much in the issue where they fight and Hulk  wasn't able to do actual damage to Ghost Rider. "
Excuse my noobishness but who was Johnny Blaze talking to during his appearance in World War Hulk if it wasn't Zarathos?
#33 Edited by Dark King (3727 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:

" @Dark King said:

"but that wasn't standard ghost rider and it was only strange's opinion aside from that GR lacked any feats and repeated pounding will tire the rider eventually ko'ing him..   i say the last part b/c ppl have this misconception that he is incapable of being ko'ed which he has..  the only impressive thing unleash Rider did was rev his engine..... normal rider was just trying to stop hulk tying the chain to the subway cart and that was more impressive for the hulk then the rider. "

How about beating up a guy who conquered Heaven?  Beating up Satan?  Taking everything the Hulk could dish out and healing it all instantly?  Making the Hulk scream in pain?  Staring down the Hulk and making him flinch?  How're those for feats? You seem to not understand how the Rider's powers work and that's okay.  I mean, you're the guy that low balled Ghost Rider so much as to say you thought Wolverine could beat him. "
i don't know why you are making reference to wolvie here... but comics history explains what i may or may not have stated in the passed since i use evidence, historical canon facts.
 
you toss around heaven, Satan as if that alone is a feat to his power and reason for winning rather then the fact he is exploiting a weakness they possess and  advantage he has over them as a demon of vengeance.
 
fighting human's with a shard of the devil doesn't mean the possessed are all herald abstract beings when they are all barely superhuman which a shotgun to the face could gave stopped most of them.. just b/c they  control hellfire and immune to it doesn't mean their durability is equal with other attacks...
 
now i don't know why you think showing Ghostrider in his average written limits is lowballing but using the WWH version of him isn't....when his standard self  was shown that Ghostrider had bn "unleashed" reference that it wasnt standard Ghostrider... 
 
now nothing you listed of ghostrider doing to Hulk doesnt mean anything.... making him scream, flinch and having a stare down?
 
i can name lot's of heroes who have done that to Hulk and it doesnt mean they can win all they did was caused a moment of discomfort and are cocky...
 
there is not a single shred of evidence that makes one believe ghostrider can win..
 
Hulk will smash him repeatedly until Ghostrider is unable to heal and finally pass out which has happen more then once in comics..
#34 Posted by Darren (69 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk can 'BFR' .
 
Rider will be in control of the fight but at some point Hulk will get his hands on him.
 
 Surprising that these two have never had a real battle being that they have been teamed up, so many times in the past.

#35 Posted by Voltron214 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Finally a discussion. Keep em coming guys, I want others as well to put their input into this topic. These are 2 of my favorite heroes and it makes me giggle like a little girl seeing different opinions with well explained thoughts on how one can pummel the other. I do agree with Dark King that the Rider has yet to prove that he can swing with the big hitters. If someone can show that he can win by mixing it up with the big boys, that would be great. 
 
Also, didn't the Rider schooled the Avengers before by himself? Does that prove anything?

#36 Posted by Susanoo (5909 posts) - - Show Bio
@Voltron214 said:
"Finally a discussion. Keep em coming guys, I want others as well to put their input into this topic. These are 2 of my favorite heroes and it makes me giggle like a little girl seeing different opinions with well explained thoughts on how one can pummel the other. I do agree with Dark King that the Rider has yet to prove that he can swing with the big hitters. If someone can show that he can win by mixing it up with the big boys, that would be great.  Also, didn't the Rider schooled the Avengers before by himself? Does that prove anything? "

Technically, Thor was holding back and was being an idiot like always. As for the thread, Rider wins. He cannot die by physical means and is immortal. His penance stare/hellfire will take out Hulk
#38 Posted by jasraj (4728 posts) - - Show Bio
Hulk has survived Johnny Storm going into the super nova
#39 Posted by VanTesla (518 posts) - - Show Bio

GR would win. 
 
Doctor Strange knew it even though he knew that Zath would prob leave like he did. Proving Hulk was not the bad guy in a way... 
 
But they screwed Stange up in the series with his magic getting out of control and Hulk of all people tricking him(yes WW Hulk is smart but he should not be able to out wit the Sorcerer Supreme...).
#40 Posted by difficlus (10678 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll go with GR

#41 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@Voltron214 said:
" @Zoom said:
" Zarathos isn't part of Ghost Rider and hasn't been since most of you were born.  That said, the Rider could still kill the Hulk.  Strange says as much in the issue where they fight and Hulk  wasn't able to do actual damage to Ghost Rider. "
Excuse my noobishness but who was Johnny Blaze talking to during his appearance in World War Hulk if it wasn't Zarathos? "

The Rider or the Spirit of Vengeance.  Zarathos and Blaze haven't been bonded since the early 80s.  In the 90s, during the Siege of Darkness, the Midnight Sons (including Blaze) killed Zarathos, turning him to stone.  Later, Zakiel would bond the Spirit of Vengeance to Blaze, causing a massive powerup. 
 
It is worth noting that even the far weaker Ghost Rider of the 70s has defeated the Hulk before.
 
@RamsesII
said:
"That comic book was bad writeing i mean look Ghost rider can lift around 5 tons<Hulk strength is limitless,infinite, ever lasting goes on forever Hell Fire > Thunder clap thunder clap is pretty strong but hell fire burns the soul AND the body but hulks durability and healing would over come it GR durability < Hulks durability, he has tooken hits that would of destroyed the earth. GR speed (motorcycle) < Hulks speed he can RUN at 300 mph and leap very very very far. stamina TIE Chain < Hulks hand, hulk has defeated ONLSAUGHT and pretty sure ghosty couldnt "

Wrong on so many levels.  Hulk's strength is not infinite.  It is based on his rage.  There are plenty of characters stronger than Hulk.  The strength of the Rider doesn't really matter because he's gonna win by blasting the Hulk with hellfire. 
 
Hulk's durability isn't greater than the Rider's.  The Rider can't be injured by anything less than a holy weapon, which not only makes him more durably but it means the Hulk can't actually hurt him. 
 
Ghost Rider's motorcycle is significantly faster than the Hulk.  He's driven around the planet in the middle of battle. 
 
Hulk didn't defeat Onslaught.  Don't be silly. 
 
 
 
#42 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@Castleking
 
Scans of the Rider beating beaten into unconsciousness?
 
Because that has never happened at his current power level.  Same with the Wolverine examples you previously used.
 
Also, you know why I'm using "unleashed" Rider.  Because if you hit Blaze hard enough, the Rider gains control.  You can't just KO Blaze without this happening so you can't defeat him without it happening.
#43 Edited by God_Spawn (36011 posts) - - Show Bio
@jasraj said:

"Hulk has survived Johnny Storm going into the super nova "


@jasraj said:

"Hulk literally rips him apart "



hulk can rip him apart that isnt going to do much. GR will heal. Johnny going supernova has nothing to do with this. Ghost rider's hellfire attacks your soul,  that doesnt base off of hulk's normal durability or resistance to temperatures.
Moderator
#44 Posted by CurbsideProphet (1906 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:
Wrong on so many levels.  Hulk's strength is not infinite.  It is based on his rage.  There are plenty of characters stronger than Hulk.  The strength of the Rider doesn't really matter because he's gonna win by blasting the Hulk with hellfire.  Hulk's durability isn't greater than the Rider's.  The Rider can't be injured by anything less than a holy weapon, which not only makes him more durably but it means the Hulk can't actually hurt him.  Ghost Rider's motorcycle is significantly faster than the Hulk.  He's driven around the planet in the middle of battle.  Hulk didn't defeat Onslaught.  Don't be silly.     "

All that that he said. Also, no. Apparently, Hulk doesn't fit the criteria for those who can resist the stare.
#45 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

I shouldn't be able to but apparently, some people are marvel think he's never killed anybody?
#46 Posted by Darren (69 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom:  Hulk has killed by mistake [knocking over buildings. ect ] after being attacked.
All of the damage he has done has been in self defense 'in his mind'. 
 
For this his  conscience clear of wrong doing.
#47 Posted by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

wasn't it stated ghost rider could have won if he were in control

#48 Edited by jashro44 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio
@RamsesII said:

" That comic book was bad writeing i mean look Ghost rider can lift around 5 tons<Hulk strength is limitless,infinite, ever lasting goes on forever Hell Fire > Thunder clap thunder clap is pretty strong but hell fire burns the soul AND the body but hulks durability and healing would over come it GR durability < Hulks durability, he has tooken hits that would of destroyed the earth. GR speed (motorcycle) < Hulks speed he can RUN at 300 mph and leap very very very far. stamina TIE Chain < Hulks hand, hulk has defeated ONLSAUGHT and pretty sure ghosty couldnt "

its a special bike its a lot faster then hulk. and that whole onsalught thing was mindless hulk he was increasing strength per second instead of as he got matter so he is stronger then ww hulk and my understanding is the chain is indestructible
#49 Posted by ReverseNegative (2729 posts) - - Show Bio

Ghost Rider

#50 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@Darren said:
" @Zoom:  Hulk has killed by mistake [knocking over buildings. ect ] after being attacked. All of the damage he has done has been in self defense 'in his mind'.   For this his  conscience clear of wrong doing. "

Bull. 
 
Throwing a temper tantrum in the middle of a city is not an accident.