@comicstooge: Alright, let me skip the introductions and just jump straight into it. We all know the deal with this match -- Hulk is strong and durable and Vegeta is fast and versatile. That's the basic idea here, and I doubt either of us will disagree with the other when it comes to our own respective characters' advantages. For instance, if this were Vegeta vs Thor we'd probably have arguments over who's stronger, faster, better energy output, and etc, but with Hulk vs Vegeta it's clear cut. The debate doesn't come from who has the advantage, it's from who's advantages are better; Hulk's or Vegeta's?
In my opinion, things are clearly in Vegeta's favor. It won't be an easy victory, but at the end of the day he has the tools to put Hulk down, whereas the same can not be said for the jolly green giant. Whereas Hulk is super duper strong, Vegeta is: A) Far too fast for Bruce to ever see or react to, B) More than skilled and agile enough to avoid just about every single punch Hulk could possibly throw out, C) More than powerful enough to destroy Hulk if given some time, and D) Far too intelligent to let any of these advantages go to waste.
Let me start with some comparisons between Vegeta's stats and Hulk's stats. As early as the Saiyan Saga, not only was Vegeta capable of throwing out planet busters casually, but he was capable of tanking them as well.
-Vegeta erases planet Arlia and it's moon from space with no difficulty.
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-Vegeta completely vaporizes Nappa with low-difficulty.
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-Vegeta puts every ounce of energy he has into an enraged Galick Gun, threatening Goku to either take the blast head on or doom the Earth. Goku confirms that the planet will be destroyed if he doesn't do something, and ends up overpowering the Galick Gun with a Kamehameha x4, with Vegeta being completely consumed yet remaining relatively unharmed after escaping.
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So Vegeta's pretty durable. IIRC World Breaker Hulk's best feat is surviving the destruction of a planet, yet Vegeta could do that in the Saiyan Saga. I'm not saying Vegeta is more durable than Hulk, but it should be obvious that Bruce will have a hard time keeping him down, even if their speed were equalized.
And it goes without saying that Vegeta got a lot more powerful as the series went on. In fact, by the time of Multiverse, he's gotten so strong that Vegeta of Universe 10 (who was as strong as Vegeta was when he performed all of the feats above) was effectively cannon fodder to him. Even as a Great Ape, Vegeta in base form oneshotted him, which would indicate that his strikes are a good deal more powerful than planet busters by this point.
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This is consistent with things like Freeza splitting planet Namek in half with a wave of his hand, Piccolo and 17 destroying several islands just from the shockwaves caused by their strikes, and FPSSJ Goku and Perfect Cell making the whole planet rumble during their fight. Each of the aforementioned feats are pretty admirable even by Hulk's standards, yet the characters who performed them are weak in comparison to Vegeta.
-Insults Piccolo's power to his face after he had gone through a year of training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
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-Knocks Gohan off his feet with a wave of his hand (Gohan obliterated Freeza with one punch in Fusion Reborn)
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-Stalemates SSJ2 Goku in a grapple.
All in all, given the level of strength possessed by the opponents Vegeta regularly faces and surpasses, I'm pretty sure the prince of all saiyans can keep up with Hulk in a brawl for at least a little bit, and perhaps even outmatch him until Bruce starts getting really mad.
But like I said, H2H combat against the Hulk is still inadvisable for a myriad of reasons. Vegeta will realize this quickly and stick to his other advantages, similar to how he quickly realized that the Ultra Super Saiyan state, despite having great power, was bulky and difficult to maneuver in, and decided to focus on the Ascended state instead. This is important because it showed that Vegeta knows the value of speed in battle, so there can be no doubt that he will fully utilize that advantage in his fight against Hulk.
Now as for Hulk, he does have a degree of super speed in his own right, that's been proven a few times before, but let's be honest, he doesn't even come close to Master Roshi, let alone a Super Saiyan, LET ALONE a Super Saiyan 2! Characters in the original Dragon Ball were already massively hypersonic, by the end of the series most of them are way faster than light (confirmed in Multiverse) and Vegeta is still one of the top tiers by that time. During the Saiyan Saga, Goku and Vegeta were shown to have multiple fight sequences in the span of a single heartbeat (which is how long the Kaio-Ken lasts, and happens to be about 0.857 seconds)
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Vegeta is caught off guard initially but easily takes the advantage
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Without Kaio-Ken Goku can't even see Vegeta
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Finally Goku uses the Kaio-Ken x3, with most of the entire chapter happening in the span of a heartbeat, and Vegeta is still able to at least somewhat keep up.
Honestly I think this is enough right here, Hulk ain't never touching this guy. It's true that once in awhile Hulk can land a hit on guys who are able to dance around him, like Spider-Man and Captain America, but the likes of Spidey and Cap are infinitely inferior to Vegeta. Unless Hulk is moving at speeds comparable to one of Freeza's Death Beams, then Vegeta won't even have to power up beyond base form and he'll still be running around freely while Hulk is frozen in time. During the fight against Freeza he was able to make his way from the top of a cliff, all the way down to Gohan's position and save him from a Death Beam before said attack could even move a few inches.
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Freeza's attacks have been clocked at pretty close to light speed, what with going all around the planet in an instant and moving faster than Piccolo, Gohan, and Krillin are able to see, so that's something to keep in mind.
After turning Super Saiyan, Vegeta's reaction time has increased to the point where he could deflect photon beams from Android 19 using just telekinesis.
And then on top of all this Vegeta's got the whole flight thing going for him... that alone is a pretty insurmountable advantage if he uses it right. So the question then becomes is Vegeta smart enough to use it right? I'll let Piccolo answer that.
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The more I think about, the harder it becomes to believe that Hulk can even come close to getting his hands on Vegeta. The guy will be moving nanometers in minutes from Vegeta's perspective. Really, it's going to come down to Vegeta realizing Hulk is too tough to fight H2H, and deciding to just fly high in the air where he can't be reached, and then nuking Hulk with his strongest attack, the Final Flash. This is a realistic plan for me because it's literally the exact same thing Vegeta did against Cell, minus the "can't be reached" part.
Alright, I agree we should skip introductions and get into it.
Stamina:
I had no illusions about Hulk being able to tag a fresh Vegeta either, however, this battle won't be about that. What we have here is a battle of battle of attrition.
The main factor here is to see if Vegeta's power can overcome Hulk, before Vegeta is pushed to the point of exhaustion.
If he tries to outlast Hulk, he's gonna fail miserably.
Savage Hulk was capable of exerting himself for days without fail.
Professor Hulk fought for days on end, nonstop.
Mindless Hulk spent entire weeks climbing a mountain:
Durability:
You were right when you said that Vegeta wasn't more durable than Hulk (well, there's weren't your exact words, but whatever).
Allow me demonstrate to you why Hulk is indeed more durable:
At Hulk's weakest incarnation, his Grey form. he was flown right through an asteroid twice the size of Earth and remained unharmed:
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Savage Hulk withstood a bear-hug from an enemy who was releasing the energy of a small sun:
Savage Hulk withstood a the full might of Galaxy Master, a being who went around destroying planets and solar systems for fun. He wasn't even capable of putting Hulk down through brute force, so he was forced to use a less direct method:
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Indestructible Hulk even withstood the force of Proxima Midnight's spear to the chest. Midnight's spear contained the power of a supernova and this Hulk wasn't put down or even knocked out by it:
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Striking
While Hulk will struggle to hit Vegeta, his strikes will do a hell of a lot of damage when they connect.
For example, Silver Surfer can tank planet busting explosions without a scratch:
Yet weaker incarnations of Hulk have staggered Surfer multiple times:
Exhibit A:
Exhibit B:
Prof Hulk has ever winded the Juggernaut, a guy who's withstood the strongest attacks from guys like Thor and Hyperion:
Indestructible Hulk even damaged a version of Hyperion...
...who withstood the force of two universes collapsing...
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...even though he'd grown stronger since then due to absorbing more sunlight in a place with a thinner atmosphere:
The writer, Johnathan Hickman, even addressed this outright:
Basically, Hulk most certainly hits hard enough to bring down people in the Saiyan's weight class.
The all important factor:
I think you'll have noticed none of these are from World War Hulk. There's a reason for this - with the exception of perhaps Indestructible Hulk (who's probably equal to World War Hulk or somewhere close) the Banner I'm using is a lot stronger than all these guys. If Hulk's weaker incarnation can do all this stuff, imagine what can be accomplished by the version I'm using.
Just for evidence, at the end of Hulk's short stint as King of Sakaar, he was amped:
The absolute most important thing about this fight, is that while every attack Vegeta throws at him will only wear Vegeta out more and more, Hulk's tough enough to tank it and with every blast that goes his way, he'll just get stronger and stronger:
Ask Genis-Vell how effective he was when blasting away at the Hulk:
Hell, Vegeta once pushed his body to the point where he died tried to put his foe down. He's not gonna stop until one of them tires out:
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In conclusion:
- Even Hulk's weaker incarnations can withstand the sort of energy Vegeta puts out, World War Hulk will be able to do so easier
- Strikes from the Hulk's weaker incarnations can hurt those with planetary durability. Post-Sakaar Hulk's punches are gonna clobber Vegeta
- Vegeta will only grow weaker as the battle progresses, while the same can't be said for Hulk who's rage and strength will only increase
- While Vegeta is a genius, he's also an overly proud, vastly arrogant warrior. While it's true, he'll likely be too fast to get tagged by Hulk and might just fly up into the sky and blast him, he'll essentially be fighting himself into exhaustion
- Hulk can and will outlast Vegeta. Even flight requires ki, something the Saiyan will be exerting a hell of a lot of while trying to put Banner down. It's only a matter of time before Vegeta fights himself to exhaustion as he did against the likes of Cell, Android 18 and Majin Buu, who were capable of either having superior stamina (in the case of Android 18) or who could simply regenerate from or survive everything Vegeta threw at them (in the case of Cell and Buu).
Hey @pope052 this World War Hulk vs Vegeta CAV might interest you whenever you're not working on your own debates. NickZ and ComicStooge are gonna make this a good match up ;)
Hey @pope052 this World War Hulk vs Vegeta CAV might interest you whenever you're not working on your own debates. NickZ and ComicStooge are gonna make this a good match up ;)
Sweet, yeah i'm just waiting on responses but this'll be entertaining, cheers for the tag ;)
Hey @pope052 this World War Hulk vs Vegeta CAV might interest you whenever you're not working on your own debates. NickZ and ComicStooge are gonna make this a good match up ;)
Sweet, yeah i'm just waiting on responses but this'll be entertaining, cheers for the tag ;)
no way that any versions of hulk are taking down vegeta. vegetas speed and chi manipulation are way above anything hulks seen before. COME AT ME HULK FANBOYS lol but for real hulk is awesome but vegeta slaughters.
@bloodblunts: This is a CAV, not a battle forum thread. The outcome of the debate is based on who argued their case better, who had the better points and who cited the best evidence, not necessarily which character would win in a fight. Please don't make comments like that on this thread. It detracts from its purpose.
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