World War Hulk and Thor (B&T) vs KC Supes and WW3 Black Adam

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Thor (Blood and Thunder) & WW Hulk

Versus:

Kingdom Come Superman & WW3 Black Adam

Rules:

• Morals ON
• Standard Equipment
• No BFR/BFD
• Hulk starts in WW but can go WB
• If its a mismatch for Marvel Team, Thor gets power gem

Hulk and Thor take it easy to moderate difficulty. If Hulk goes WBH he solos.

Marvel Team wrecks. Thor could almost solo

Hulk:

@dondave @theacidskull @stupid_people @thor_parker82 @rogueshadow @lowlaville @soothing_sounds @risingbean @ghostravage @nighthunder @patrat18 @cable_extreme @cadencev2 @green_skaar @theamazingimmortalman @homicidalmaniac @godtriggerhulk @thitiki @thedailybagel @hulkage @jackjack390 @oceanmaster21 @spiderman1997

Thor:

@dondave @rogueshadow @New_World_Order @serrure @norrinboltagonprime21 @unbreakable_fs4 @darrellacoustic @wolverine08 @jayc1324 @cosmicallyaware1 @patrat18 @risingbean @cable_extreme @14nc3 @thitiki @king_stranglehold_da_first @sophia89 @lowlaville @godtriggerhulk @ssj_god @thedailybagel @oceanmaster21 @thor_parker82 @apocalypse3 @hulkage @comicdude360 @jackjack390 @cgoodness @spiderman1997 @nighthunder

Superman:

@allstarsuperman @lvenger @dondave @rbt @dccomicsrule2011 @buttersdaman000 @comicstooge @risingbean @frozen @comicace3 @pokeysteve @ancient_0f_days @god_spawn @matchesmalone21 @theamazingimmortalman @lowlaville @patrat18 @zeroplus @thitiki @demonknights @ssj_god @darkseid1006 @thor_parker82 @captain_batman_ftw @sirneko

Shazam:

@patrat18 @frozen @themagicstik @jackjack390 @apocalypse3

Marvel team wrecks

@hulkage: @atheistknowledge: @captain_batman_ftw: @somayareece:

If I change it to Kingdom Come Superman and WW3 Black Adam would that make it more even?

@ascendedtopicz: Much more even than this fight is

Yes.

Team Marvel

Kingdom Come Superman would wreck Thor so badly and give Hulk a thrashing.

That is a version of Superman so fast that even Jay Garrick could not keep up with him, remarking that he's as fast as Wally. Whether he is or not, Jay is someone who can strategize in nanoseconds. Considering the JSA struggled to beat KC Superman, I don't see why Team 1 would. Thor is dog-slow.

Pre-New 52 Superman can already defeat either Thor or World War Hulk - why would they fare better against a Superman who is much stronger, faster and more durable than Pre-New 52?

Edit: Noticed Power Gem. Now I would not be so sure, WWH would still lose to KC Superman but Thor might not.

I thought Kingdom Come Superman doesn't really have any feats, it's just stated that he is stronger now that he is older. I mean he was written by Mark Waid and his really bad at portraying powerful characters.

Shazam hasn't shown much of his potential in the New 52, and would be taken out quite quickly leaving Superman alone. Despite how powerful Superman is, he's not defeating Thor and Hulk at the same time. Especially these two versions of them.

No, he did not have many feats in the original book Kingdom Come, his actual feats were displayed comparatively to Pre-New 52 Superman in the JSA series, written by Geoff Johns.

Kingdom Come Superman was more powerful than the Pre-New 52 version.

He:

• Overpowered the JSA
• Withstood Hercules punch, and did not flinch - whereas Pre-New 52 Superman was smashed back {this was a comparative gauge}
• He was too fast for Jay Garrick to perceive; who himself is on par with Pre-New 52 Superman and can strategize in Nanoseconds. Neither Hulk nor Thor would stand a chance at keeping up with Jay Garrick

@frozen: Pre 52 Superman is not beating Blood and Thunder Thor especially with the power gem. Not when he was giving Silver Surfer, BrB, and Adam Warlock hell.

Thor does solo

@hulkage: Read my edit - I noticed the Power Gem and posted an update.

What I meant was that Superman would defeat Thor without any gems.

His speed doesn't really concern me since WBH can nullify all of that with his gamma bursts, what i wanna know is what his striking power is, strength and durability is, because i am still not sold that him and BA can take out Hulk and Thor.

Superman solos . I can't see slow Team tagging him

His gamma bursts would not slow down Jay Garrick. Hulk loses to Superman because of the speed disadvantage - he's got little chance of keeping up with a version of Superman who is faster than another version of Superman who trounces Hulk in speed.

Now with the power gem, the fight is different - Thor is probably more powerful but he's still slow. They'll be able to tag Black Adam and give him a thrashing, but there's nothing to suggest they can keep up with someone faster than Jay Garrick.

@frozen: His gamma burst would slow down Superman i am not arguing this point for the millionth time with another Superman fan, you don't think it will? Fine let's agree to disagree i don't want to go in circles.

I am still not seeing any convincing strength, striking and durability feats.

It'll slow him down because you say so? Even though Superman has dealt with worse in terms of damage soak and durability? (you know, like multiple supernova's). Disagree if you want.

What convincing strength, striking and durability feats do you want? Kingdom Come Superman was a future version of Post-Crisis Superman juiced on sun-light. Post-Crisis Superman has shattered dimensional barriers, withstood multiple supernova's and helped move a planet. Kingdom Come Superman by contrast made this incarnation look pathetic in their JSA team-up. Anything Post-Crisis Superman can do, KC Superman can do but better.

This is why he was far too fast for Jay Garrick and too strong for Hercules with his Golden Fleece. Those feats were written to actively demonstrate that KC Superman is comparatively superior.

Anyway, how is either of the team going to tag Superman? They are at a quite a severe speed disadvantage.

@frozen: Yes and he just flew through them at full speed? If Supernovas don't stop him how the hell does he ever lose? How does anyone punch him back? WW punches harder then a Supernova explodes?

Are you allergic to scans or something?

Marvel wrecks, new 52 billy is relatively featless so he's kind of irrelevant unless I'm missing something.

You asked for a durability feat so I gave you one from the younger, weaker incarnation. Lol, I did not say Wonder Woman punches harder than a supernova; don't straw-man my position.

Clearly, fights differ with their depictions of energy blasts and blunt force, but by your logic any durability feat Hulk has against an energy blast must be discarded. His gamma-bursts are an output of energy anyway, not blunt force punches.

Are you allergic to not intentionally misrepresenting people?

SSSHHH, don't let conner_wolf see that!

And i am asking for a feat from KC Superman. I did not strawman your position i asked you a simple question.

Clearly they do, so are you trying to tell me Superman was never, EVER pushed back by energy attacks much weaker then Supernovas? Because i am pretty sure i saw it happen several times.

I don't represent you in the first place so how can i misrepresent you? I think the word you are looking for is misinterpret.

I don't see how they tag Superman.

@atheistknowledge: I gave you feats of KC Superman. In the JSA series, he overpowered the JSA, was too fast for Jay Garrick and made Pre-New 52 Superman look comparatively pathetic. Despite limied appearances, these feats are impressive and get the point across that Johns wrote those panels to stress that Pre-New 52 Superman was far inferior - as I said, anything Pre-New 52 Superman can do, KC Superman can do but better.

You straw-manned by position by pushing the prospect that I somehow said Wonder Woman punches harder than Supernova's. Yes, Superman has lower end feats - but that's pretty much to be expected, the point was that the notion of Hulk's gamma-bursts completing Superman's speed is hyperbole.

It's quite a stretch to think that the team could tag someone who can strategize in Nanoseonds. It's even more of a stretch to say they can tag someone so fast that someone who can strategize in Nanoseconds cannot even perceive them.

WW Hulk and Warrior Madness Thor with the Power Gem

The spoiler block doesn't work for some reason.

No i didn't i never said you said those things. I specifically asked you if he overpowers Supernovas why does he even get punched back by others? It's a perfectly legitimate question to which you gave an answer of blunt force and energy projection are not the same thing and they aren't but they are still both forces implying kinetic energy against you and if you can withstand one and the other isn't any more powerful then you should withstand both of them. So surviving Supernovas are standard feats for Superman not high-end feats but getting punched around by others with similar strength is just lower end? INB4 "don't strawman me".

@atheistknowledge:

The spoiler block doesn't work for some reason.

No i didn't i never said you said those things. I specifically asked you if he overpowers Supernovas why does he even get punched back by others? It's a perfectly legitimate question to which you gave an answer of blunt force and energy projection are not the same thing and they aren't but they are still both forces implying kinetic energy against you and if you can withstand one and the other isn't any more powerful then you should withstand both of them. So surviving Supernovas are standard feats for Superman not high-end feats but getting punched around by others with similar strength is just lower end? INB4 "don't strawman me".

• Check it again
• I specifically said writers depict energy blast durability differently than they do blunt force damage. This is what led me to call out strawman, I did not conflate energy blast durability with blunt force durability. It's standard in comics to see Batman tank an explosion yet get hurt by someone's punches. My point was that Hulk's gamma output falls under energy, not blunt force punches
• Your point of contention was that Hulk's gamma output (energy) would negate Superman's speed. My point is that Superman has flown through energy blasts just fine. My point is that you're hyperboling Hulk's gamma if you think that it'd be enough to completely negate the speed of the likes of Jay Garrick or Superman

Bro Hulk has absolutely no chance of keeping up with KC Superman.

Anyways, KC Superman would solo, regardless if Thor has the Power Gem as Thor wouldn't touch Clark whatsoever and Clark can snatch the gem out of his hand.If this Superman is much faster than Pre 52 Superman, who's speed level can put him in the picosecond range, what hope do they have of laying a finger on KC Clark?

@reaverlation: Yeah, I can't imagine either of team 1 even remotely keeping up with Superman. They're already slower than Post-Crisis Superman, so I struggle to envision how they keep up with a much faster version.

This is an interesting battle.

If you pit Shazam vs Thor it will take a while for Thor to defeat Shazam. Shazam is still fast and will be knocking him around for while. Shazam feats are limited but he has proven to be a heavy hitter and able to take blows. If you pit Shazam vs WWHulk he will be knocking Hulk around for a while. The fight would consist of knocking each other if WWh can hit him he will probably go great distances and one is able to travel at ridiculous speeds to catch up and follow up plus the ability to fly.

WWH is the weakest link here. There is nothing he can do to stop superman. WWH world breaker mode is limited to him holding back and since morals is on this is an easier fight for superman. This made up myth of hulk gamma burst stopping superman is a myth. it has not stop anyone no body even close to superman level. Hulk has no such feat, all assumptions . WWH will be knocked out easily. If he fights for too long exerting him self or getting beaten up . He will revert back to Bruce Banner. Dont forget the heat vision and freeze breathe.

So this fight boils down to Thor vs Superman. Again speed is a factor. . The problem with Thor and the power Gem is he cannot utilize the full power of the GEM to its fullest, the reason been he does not have the infinity gauntlet. Second there is no evidence nor proof that Thor is any faster. There is no proof that his durability is significantly higher if i can recall. This new 52 superman is a smart fighter and will scan his opponent. There is very high probability chance he would remove the gem. Superman can move in an instant before Thor can think. If i recall Blood and Thunder Thor i dont recall Thor showing any great fighting skills or been tactical. Lets not forget superman has his cape for the indestructible beat down and subdue.

Thor from "Blood and Thunder" solos.

@termiteone4ever: world war hulk knocked out easily? What? he has the highest overall damage soak here, by miles. The guy was never legitmately knocked out without context behind it.

Even if billy and clark pounded the crap out of him together and he didn't fight back it'd still take them a while to put him down

Lets not get carried away again. This is the same world war Hulk that face Cyclops optic blast , The same one that reverted back to banner trading blows with Sentry. The difference is this is Superman N52 with consistent heavy blows and wont change back to human or get knocked out from this WWHulk. As soon as the Hulk revert to banner. Superman will easily flip a finger and Knock out Bruce banner before he can blink or knows it. WWh has not faced anybody and gotten any blows that rocked the planet and can be felt outer space . He got basic blows when facing the Sentry.

It wont take any time to put this Wwhulk down. WWH has not shown anything on high durability level. He will be knocked out by Superman. WWH doesnt stand a chance. Shazam is enough to face him and give him warm time. You cant even claim his WB mode because its weak. He doesnt really have decent feat in that mode. Clearly due to Morals it keeps this fight interesting thanks to the OP . The rip in half would apply Hulk has no defense for this and still havent shown the durability needed. Go look back at your WWH moments and see that he had very low defense and got rip and tear rather easily.

Just accept the fact he loses here its Okay.

Thor cannot even react to KC Superman.

it's new52 superman in op

@termiteone4ever: greenscar doesn't have any high durability showings? What have you been smoking? I mean, Sure, taking a continent busting hit from skaar with a smile on his face and planet busting hits from hiro-kala aren't as good as taking a punch that made the earth shake a little...

This just tells me all I need to know. First you think doc green is the most powerful hulk (which has nothing to support that whatsoever and just shows how little you know about him) and now you say greenscar doesn't have any high durability showings...

Team 1

NEW Superman = Kal Kent superman . He is back in the convergence . He would stomps army of Hulks and Thors at the same time

Thor solos

@captain_batman_ftw: @atheistknowledge: @reaverlation: @frozen: @thor_parker82: @thedailybagel: @termiteone4ever: @ssj_god: @thedailybagel: @cgoodness: @simon_the_digger: @shaokahn: @hulkage:

OP was updated to make the fight more balanced. Who wins?

@ascendedtopicz: Team 2. Neither Hulk nor Thor stand a chance at keeping up with this version of Superman. They're too slow.

Except that's made up for by gamma burst with continental to planetary AoE. Honestly I don't see them hurting Thor, who went toe to toe with Thanos, and WW Hulk.