no prep for both
shaman nate grey
no BFR
location is on mars
no pis
morals off
20 feet apart
fight to the death
who wins and why
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world breaker hulk v nate grey
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@koays: hmm well hulk is already highly resistant to tp as just savage hulk so tp isn’t going to work and as for bfr that’s not allowed, but even then hulk is resistant to that as well
@sentryvoid7: No BFR and teleporting Hulk into the Sun wouldn't do anything.
OT: Nate has no way of putting down WBH and has specifically avoided fighting planet buster on multiple occasions, the term Omega mutant isn't a catch all term that automatically wins fights for you either, your feats win fights, not to mention that Omega mutants vary greatly in powers and abilities, i mean Storm is an Omega level mutant, that should tell you everything. But if that isn't enough i guess we can mention Hulk being an Omega level threat, since the term Omega means so much.
Not to mention Hulk already one-shot him before
Nate has a lot of intricate powers but he lacks the raw power to contend with someone of WBH level and i don't think his particular brand of hax is gonna work here.
Vaporize Nate a guy who can go intangible, pull himself back together from nothing or outright stop time and Hulk from moving and just placing him in a sun or tears him apart on a molecular level. No pis and morals off well Nate just does what he did to an alt reality Jean by spawning a sun upon her world killing everyone.
Nate's creating a sun.
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Nate doing it again.
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I can't believe people think Hulk stands a chance.
Hulk one shot Nate but refuses the show the next page where Nate is recovering and a few pages later Nate does the same thing to Hulk but Hulk takes far longer to recover than Nate did. Nate was far superior as Hulk needed Nate's psionic armor just to hurt the Thanosi while Nate did it on his own at least twice on panel and Nate has many options of dealing with any Hulk than vice versa.
Going intangible does not make you immune to any and all attacks, in fact Nate never used his intangibility offensively or defensively in the first place so that's a moot point. Now lets debunk some misconceptions, Nate does not in fact stop time, he has 2 instance of "time manipulation" the first one is him literally just stopping everything around him with his telekenisis
this is even pointed out in the narration itself
Another time he used "time manipulation" was him going inside Planck Length where he is allowed to see different timelines, but the absolutely best part about it is that someone like Ares was able to break in there.
I can already see WBH shaking in his purple pants at these 2 "time stopping" feats.
Now let's move onto the "Suns"
Needless to say Nate Grey did not in fact create Suns there, in fact this was not even 616 Nate Grey but an alternate version of him, so a completely useless feat but let's go even further, in the first instance he was TP'd by Jean to specifically kill off ASIA
Crashing the "Sun" into Earth would kill off the entire Earth(in fact you don't even need to crash it into Earth itself to kill off all of Earth), what Nate did there was create a giant fireball capable of covering the continent of Asia, so basically what Heli tried to pass off as a Stellar or Solar System level attack was literally a continent level attack.
This is again seen when he creates another big fireball and crashes it into a city and surprise surprise the Earth itself is still in one piece. So much for them Suns.
Yea the context being a "few pages later" obviously Hulk didn't kill or put Nate in a coma, he literally slapped him after he broke through his TK shields right after Nate says no physical force can do that and it took out Nate for several pages. Oh and more lies from Heli, as Nate did not take out Hulk at any point let alone for longer than Hulk did him, he attacked Hulk twice. First from behind and it didn't even make Hulk flinch
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after that Hulk slaps him and Nate comes back wearing his PSI armor and punches Hulk in the face which sends him flying and tires out Nate quite a lot but Hulk gets up in the same page like nothing happened, unharmed and not tired.
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Also i have no idea where this nonsense about Hulk needing the armor to hurt Thanosi comes from, Hulk never hit Thanos in that entire comic and Nate had to give Hulk his armor because he alone couldn't beat the Thanosi back with it.
This has been another episode of mythbusters, thanks for watching.
@froltem:While Nate's feat of reconstituting his physical body, and operate as intangible being might seem impressive at first glance, in reality, this ability is very limited, and certainly too hard for him to maintain. Nate needs to constantly bolster up his psychic energy from external source to avoid dissipation, which subsequently weakens his power output as implied in Dark Avengers when he struggled against Osborn and Ares, and the fact that Worldbreaker is marginally powerful than both characters in every aspect you can think of makes it worse. The amount of pressure Nate would get from having to reform the physical body every time Hulk unleashes gamma burst will eventually take him out, or render him to practically powerless state.
It's not limited at all as he did it against Qabiri instantly as he's had no issues of using that skill during his solo run, Nate never struggled against Osborn nor Ares as X-man's whole plan was to get to Norman Osborn and show the Dark X-men who he really was and his plan worked. Ah the gamma burst that killed fodder that Nate could easily manipulate or just dead stop with his superior skills.
Admits he can do this trick endlessly to avoid his physical attacks.
In how many occasions has Nate used Planck Length to assume that he would momentarily utilize it before Hulk vaporizes him with a flurry of punches? The concept of manipulating time seems rather irresistible on-paper, but it's a matter of scarcity of feats Nate pulled off with aforementioned ability. Disregarding that, he really doesn't have what it takes to damage someone who can dish out and continuously take beyond planet-busting blows.
Hulk has never destroyed a planet by himself nor has he thrown a flurry of punches capable of beyond planet-busting blows or are you gonna post up some fancal nonsense ?, Nate has stopped time twice and that's twice more than Hulk doing anything you suggested.
Apart from OP clearly stating that battle field removal isn't a winning option, what would dumping WBH in plasma accomplish when he has withstood attacks far hotter than the core of the sun? Hyperion's atomic vision, Torch's nova, Apollo's sun blasts, Zarathos' hellfire, etc. - these are examples off top my head. I could go on, but the point is clear. As for the latter part, it's simply not going to occur because Shaman Nate has never demonstrated the ability to disperse someone on a molecular level, let alone affect impervious behemoth like Hulk, who possesses plethora of matter manipulation resistance feats.
Nate can bring the sun to Hulk without BFR but were any of those attacks even defined to be hotter than a sun ?, Not to mention Hulk has never been trapped inside a sun ever since he'd have no way to ever get out.
First off, what Nate did to some wimpy alternate version of Jean is a moot point since she's nowhere near as powerful as WBH. Next, that's not 616 Nate, rather his counterpart from Earth-2098, who removed X-insignia and the "Sun" he created was just a continent-sized telekinetic blast (616 Nate later replicated it, but on a much smaller scale). Speaking of continent-level, WBH recovered very comfortably from Skaar's 100 trillion ton hit, which was equal in power to the asteroid that caused Dinosaurs to eradicate.
There is no 616 Nate lol only 295 Nate which is the version used here but it doesn't change the fact that he can create suns that he can use for attacks, You missed the part where War Machine and Photon were draining and the FF trying to break his connection to the ground and nothing states that Skaar used the 100 trillion kinetic punch just that he was seconds away from using that amount of power. Hulk recovered very comfortably but later get downed by sand shards and needs Red She-Hulks help and uses a distraction of Hulk saving people to actually beat his son.
So believe it or not, Nate sadly doesn't possesses sufficient damage output and resources to put down Worldbreaker Hulk.
Nate has more than enough as he can enter the Planck length between time and erase Hulk that way or just drops a sun on him etc etc has Hulk is the one that possess nothing that can actually harm Nate.
@underfire47: Going intangible does not make you immune to any and all attacks, in fact Nate never used his intangibility offensively or defensively in the first place so that's a moot point. Now lets debunk some misconceptions, Nate does not in fact stop time, he has 2 instance of "time manipulation" the first one is him literally just stopping everything around him with his telekenisis.
Because Nate never had to dodge or intangible an attack since he can either precog it, tk shield it or just tank it but the skill is still there to be used.
Another time he used "time manipulation" was him going inside Planck Length where he is allowed to see different timelines, but the absolutely best part about it is that someone like Ares was able to break in there.
Ares gets in there because time doesn't limit gods as it's clearly the narration since no one was is capable of time manipulation.
I can already see WBH shaking in his purple pants at these 2 "time stopping" feats.
It's two more feats than Hulk breaking any planet by himself or throwing planet busting punches in a flurry.
Needless to say Nate Grey did not in fact create Suns there, in fact this was not even 616 Nate Grey but an alternate version of him, so a completely useless feat but let's go even further, in the first instance he was TP'd by Jean to specifically kill off ASIA
He didn't create suns there, the on-panel narration a second sun, OUCH. No such thing as 616 Nate either and being tp'd to create a second sun is still a feat regardless. Plus both Nate's merged with each other so it's an equal feat for both since both ended up doing the same feat.
Crashing the "Sun" into Earth would kill off the entire Earth(in fact you don't even need to crash it into Earth itself to kill off all of Earth), what Nate did there was create a giant fireball capable of covering the continent of Asia, so basically what Heli tried to pass off as a Stellar or Solar System level attack was literally a continent level attack.
Nate created a giant fireball that was described as a star, a second sun but was harmless due to the morals of Nate, A morals off Nate could easily drop a sun on Hulk and be done with it.
This is again seen when he creates another big fireball and crashes it into a city and surprise surprise the Earth itself is still in one piece. So much for them Suns.
Because Nate used the sun to kill that realities Jean Grey and her palace only as Nate could with ease kill any world by dropping a sun on to it.
Yea the context being a "few pages later" obviously Hulk didn't kill or put Nate in a coma, he literally slapped him after he broke through his TK shields right after Nate says no physical force can do that and it took out Nate for several pages.
Someone hasn't read the comic (surprise surprise) but Nate's powers were not at 100% and Hulk never took Nate out for several pages as the very next page Nate is getting up. Nate says no physical force can do that, you just made that up as Nate states Jackknife broke his shields first but the fact that Nate powers were fluctuating doesn't make it a big deal overall.
Oh and more lies from Heli, as Nate did not take out Hulk at any point let alone for longer than Hulk did him, he attacked Hulk twice. First from behind and it didn't even make Hulk flinch.
No one said Nate took Hulk out but that Hulk was down for longer which he was, big difference.
after that Hulk slaps him and Nate comes back wearing his PSI armor and punches Hulk in the face which sends him flying and tires out Nate quite a lot but Hulk gets up in the same page like nothing happened, unharmed and not tired.
Besides Nate flying after Hulk apologizing and it takes some time to catch back up to where Hulk ended up and recovers.
Also i have no idea where this nonsense about Hulk needing the armor to hurt Thanosi comes from, Hulk never hit Thanos in that entire comic and Nate had to give Hulk his armor because he alone couldn't beat the Thanosi back with it.
Hulk never hit Thanosi in that entire comic
Explain what Hulk tried there ? and Nate get's through it with ease.
Again Nate hurts Thanosi under his own powers while Hulk couldn't.
Until he gets Nate's psionic armor.
This has been another episode of mythbusters, thanks for watching.
Sad part is you didn't bust anything as i already debunked your delusional side of things with actual on-panel statements or with the feats, ouch.
@hellionvulcan: Because Nate never had to dodge or intangible an attack since he can either precog it, tk shield it or just tank it but the skill is still there to be used.
There are at least dozens if not hundreds of times Nate was hit by something where he could have used phasing to dodge it, in fact he could have used it against Hulk instead of letting him slap him, so this is pure nonsense.
Ares gets in there because time doesn't limit gods as it's clearly the narration since no one was is capable of time manipulation.
Even fodder gods like Ares? Damn i guess anyone can overcome it at that point, Hulk definitely, given that he has already broken through time twice before anyway.
It's two more feats than Hulk breaking any planet by himself or throwing planet busting punches in a flurry.
Where? I see no actual Sun, i see nothing being destroyed except some buildings in those second set of scans. Even if we lowballed WBH feat and say it's only half of planet busting it's still > threatening Asia with a giant fireball.
He didn't create suns there, the on-panel narration a second sun, OUCH. No such thing as 616 Nate either and being tp'd to create a second sun is still a feat regardless. Plus both Nate's merged with each other so it's an equal feat for both since both ended up doing the same feat.
You mean some random Chinsese citizen seeing a giant fireball in the Sky? Explain to me how is that "Sun" the size of Asia? What kind of a Sun is that lol. So it was a shared feat is what you are saying?
Nate created a giant fireball that was described as a star, a second sun but was harmless due to the morals of Nate, A morals off Nate could easily drop a sun on Hulk and be done with it.
By a random Chinese citizen randomly seeing a giant fireball in the Sky close to Earth, he probably didn't know that it only covered Asia if even that. It was harmless because it wasn't a Star, if it was that close to Earth whether Nates morals were on or off, it would scorch whole of the Surface of the planet into nothing. I don't think a continent busting attack is gonna do anything to WBH, even regular Green Scar shrugged off same level of damage and more.
Because Nate used the sun to kill that realities Jean Grey and her palace only as Nate could with ease kill any world by dropping a sun on to it.
If it was a Sun and he dropped it on Earth even if he only intended to destroy one palace he would end up destroying the whole planet, no matter how much he held back. We already know the most he could do is threaten a continent with it and that's by statements, not by feats.
Someone hasn't read the comic (surprise surprise) but Nate's powers were not at 100% and Hulk never took Nate out for several pages as the very next page Nate is getting up. Nate says no physical force can do that, you just made that up as Nate states Jackknife broke his shields first but the fact that Nate powers were fluctuating doesn't make it a big deal overall.
I read it but i didn't think it was relevant since Nate says his TK is fine there in fact he literally says it's more mental than physical, meaning his powers were just fine. But you know what i didn't bring up as well? The fact that in that period of time Hulk was massively weakened, he was literally slowly dying back then. This happened around the same period where he encountered Gladiator and Apocolypse lol.
Oh yea my bad even better, no one but Jacknife another psionic has pierced through his fully focused TK shields until Hulk just did and his TK shields were not fluctuating there. He literally said his TK was fine.
No one said Nate took Hulk out but that Hulk was down for longer which he was, big difference.
He wasn't though, he also got up immediately while Nate struggled to get back up.
Besides Nate flying after Hulk apologizing and it takes some time to catch back up to where Hulk ended up and recovers.
Yea Nate didn't hold back when he hit Hulk he thought he hurt him but Hulk was fine, while Nate wasn't all that fine from Hulk slapping him lol. Nate says he never tried this hard before or ever faced anything like either Hulk or Thanosi
Hulk never hit Thanosi in that entire comic
Explain what Hulk tried there ? and Nate get's through it with ease.
He bounced of the electro magnetic energies that were trapping Thanos there, Nate got through it and then was helpless until Hulk had to jump through it as well and save him
Again Nate hurts Thanosi under his own powers while Hulk couldn't.
Show me a single scan where Hulk actually connects with Thanos?
Until he gets Nate's psionic armor.
I wonder why Nate didn't use that armor himself on Thanos, oh wait he did and Thanos was unphased by it
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Sad part is you didn't bust anything as i already debunked your delusional side of things with actual on-panel statements or with the feats, ouch.
This is why you are my favorite plaything on this site Heli, the delusions and zero self-awarness is what makes this worth while in the end. Nice continent level star feats though lol.
You missed the part where War Machine and Photon were draining and the FF trying to break his connection to the ground and nothing states that Skaar used the 100 trillion kinetic punch just that he was seconds away from using that amount of power. Hulk recovered very comfortably but later get downed by sand shards and needs Red She-Hulks help and uses a distraction of Hulk saving people to actually beat his son.
Why do you go out of your way to make it this easy on me and others lol. They were all trying to break his connection and try and drain his power but before they even could Skaar had absorbed the 100 trillions of force and used it on Hulk. And he was stated to be seconds away from absorbing all of it which was seconds away from when he hit Hulk
So yea he had that force there. He wasn't downed by mere sand shards but by the Old power which was literally an artificial version of the power cosmic and was a counter balance to it
also what deceptive and lying language, Hulk did not use a distraction of innocent people, he tried saving those innocent people while tanking Skaars punches
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earlier in their fight he literally held him in his hand helplessly without Skaar being able to break out saying he could crush him like an egg if he wanted to but instead lets him go
I have no idea why you think he needs a distraction to beat Skaar and Skaar is pretty damn strong, he has fought Juggernaut, Surfer, Thor(even amped Thor), 3 different versions of Hulk, etc..
It's not limited at all as he did it against Qabiri instantly as he's had no issues of using that skill during his solo run, Nate never struggled against Osborn nor Ares as X-man's whole plan was to get to Norman Osborn and show the Dark X-men who he really was and his plan worked. Ah the gamma burst that killed fodder that Nate could easily manipulate or just dead stop with his superior skills.
Instead of borrowing out-of-context scans from unreliable Reddit respect threads, you should take some time and read the actual comic. Nate's intangibility was never once utilized prior to his resurrection in Dark X-Men. In the scan you posted he's just projecting image into Qabiri's mind from another reality and doesn't actually get shattered physically as you imply. Continual body dispersion and reconstruction would deplete his energy reserves pretty quickly.
The main problem with your reasoning is that if Nate had enough firepower, he wouldn't need that kind of complex plan. I mean, according to you, Nate can create a literal Sun, but somehow manages to get the ass-whooped by a mid-tier Ares, and has a hard time taking Osborn's mind. Unless Nate has severe autism or is limited by scarcity of psionic energy, I can't see why would he allow such things to happen. The latter seems more cogent than the former, don't you agree?
You're objectively wrong here, that "fodder" were high-low tier bricks. Nate isn't stopping continent or planetary level gamma burst when his average telekinetic feats are mountain-level as shown against Qabiri and Scratch, while his high-end output is continent-level at best.
Hulk has never destroyed a planet by himself nor has he thrown a flurry of punches capable of beyond planet-busting blows or are you gonna post up some fancal nonsense ?, Nate has stopped time twice and that's twice more than Hulk doing anything you suggested.
The whole point of the Monster Arc Heart was to establish that Worldbreaker Hulk is indeed capable of destroying planets with his own power. Albeit Dark Dimension's feat was shared with Red She-Hulk, you should also take into account the size of the planet, the immense collateral damage (even nearby Moon cracked) and the fact that destruction was triggered by a mere shock wave, not by actually hitting the planet itself. To sum up, while it was a shared feat, Hulk still contributed a lot more force than needed to break the Earth-sized planet. Also, that's not only instance when Hulk showcased planetary strength, while Nate only used time manipulation in combat one time.
Nate can bring the sun to Hulk without BFR but were any of those attacks even defined to be hotter than a sun ?, Not to mention Hulk has never been trapped inside a sun ever since he'd have no way to ever get out.
With respect, Nate creating the Sun on WBH seems like a legit fan-fiction taken from Youtube comment section. He has never come close to star level mark, unfortunately. Atomic Vision can reach up to temperatures far hotter than the Sun's core and has taken out an equal alternate counterpart of Thor, Torch's nova is even hotter than an actual supernova, Apollo and Zarathos are both almost on the same level as skyfathers, what else you need to know? Placing someone inside something, whether it's the Sun or a shoe box still counts as BFR.
There is no 616 Nate lol only 295 Nate which is the version used here but it doesn't change the fact that he can create suns that he can use for attacks,
My bad, I meant the original 295 Nate. To reiterate myself, the Sun was created by a different version of Nate, which was nothing more than a telekinetic fireball that engulfed Asia. It's a nice AoE demonstration but doesn't contribute anything important to the discussion. Hulk has brushed off continental attacks with some effort in the past, like Doc Green shaking U.S. whilst pounding Red Hulk, the same Doc Green no-selling repulsors with enough force to power a continent, Savage Hulk taking on mutated bears and shaking entire Earth, etc.
You missed the part where War Machine and Photon were draining and the FF trying to break his connection to the ground and nothing states that Skaar used the 100 trillion kinetic punch just that he was seconds away from using that amount of power. Hulk recovered very comfortably but later get downed by sand shards and needs Red She-Hulks help and uses a distraction of Hulk saving people to actually beat his son.
This is asinine. Skaar never lost contact with the ground and punched WBH right after absorbing 100 trillion tons of lithosphere. Here are the scans :
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Nate has more than enough as he can enter the Planck length between time and erase Hulk that way or just drops a sun on him etc etc has Hulk is the one that possess nothing that can actually harm Nate.
Same nonsense again, when has Nate erased someone? Shaman Nate is probably one of the most overhyped mutant on the battle boards, yet he does not have a single planet-level feat, or any usable ability in his arsenal to deal with people who can actually operate on or above the planet level. Hulk disintegrates him over and over until he is no longer able to concentrate energies to rebuild the physical body. End of the debate.
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