Clark manhandles
Wonder Woman vs superman
round 1 and 2 should go to WW. She went against a stronger and bloodlusted Superman and hold her own while holding back, defeated Zoom who hit harder than Superman, and is overall a better fighter. A good slice to the head and WW takes it.
Round 3-Goes to Superman, while WW is a better fighter, Superman has better stat overall and can't really harm him without magic weapon.
NO version of Wonder Woman can beat her continuities Superman. They are touted as equals in power, but Wonder Womans wins against him are usually when he is really holding back. When Supes is crazy/bloodlusted/not holding back he usually wins handily.
BUT,
If we're talking about including Silver and Golden Age feats, then N52 supes has ZERO chance in ANY round.
Post Crisis Diana is enough to beat New-52 Clark
But Post Crisis Diana isn't beating Post Crisis Clark
New 52 Superman godstomps. There's nothing to suggest Diana can take too many of planet benching /earth shaking hits
1. WW
2.supes I'm torn on this round though
3.supes
@rickythanos: @thegrayghost: @ninjawarrior268:Since their first fight 7 decades ago, Superman has never stomped WW in any of their fights, even in those fights where he went all out. So stop reaching. Even if he wins, it's not going to be a stopm in his favor.
If you're going to tag me for a comment I made more than a month ago, you should go back and re-read it. I never said WW would get stomped AT ALL (opposite, actually).
New 52 Superman godstomps. There's nothing to suggest Diana can take too many of planet benching /earth shaking hits
Oh yeah, cus Superman always comes out the gate with planet benching / Earth shaking hits. Maybe in round 2 he will but he's not fast enough to land those hits, his reaction speed is crap compared to Pre-52 Diana's and his hits are wasted once they hit her bracers. Bring up his best combat speed feats, I'll bring up hers, I'll even bring up Pre-52 Superman's just so we're clear who she really stacks up to (unless you think New-52 Superman is stronger cus he benched the planet's weight that one time and hits harder cus he made the earth shake). He can't even scratch her without hitting bracers first, he won't make contact with her flesh and the force of all his punches will bounce right off the Aegis. Diana lassos him faster than she did Amazo in the first round, in a stomp. She cuts his head off with the lasso, tiara or just fries him with Zeus lightning in the second round, in a fairly good fight. She kills him in the third since he can't fight worth a damn. He's not even a good boxer in the New-52 like Pre-52 was, hes a bruiser, a brawler, Wonder Woman is capable of outpacing pre-52 Superman and outskilling him, he has actual training in several martial arts, not to mention the skilled Daxamite she faced. Pre-52 Superman has never even actually beaten Wonder Woman in any encounter where they both fought seriously and he's never legitimately knocked Diana out during a fight even after shes stated that a few more punches might kill her. Even if you say he knocked her out during Sacrifice and she only came to cus of the heat of reentry, the fact that she woke up that easily at all is proof that she wasn't even fully KOed. Unless you're saying that a Boxer that blacks out from a punch, gets back up and wins the fight got knocked out (even though KO means you lose), it doesn't even count as a knock out. Wonder Woman v2 175, she states "two more blows like that will kill me, then she takes heat vision to the face, a blow to her arm, a sucker-blitz punch holds Superman back and then catches Superman's punch...Oh but New-52 Superman is gonna hit that much harder huh. New-52 has no advantages over her that his old pre-52 self had or didn't have, so how in gods name does he stomp her in any round when he is outclassed in combat speed, defense and skill?
@ancient_0f_days: The bench pressing feat wasn't so much "that one time" as it was "for that whole week."
Not that I disagree with you, but as much as it's touted as N52 Supes's most impressive feat, he was not even trying.
@ancient_0f_days: The bench pressing feat wasn't so much "that one time" as it was "for that whole week."
Not that I disagree with you, but as much as it's touted as N52 Supes's most impressive feat, he was not even trying.
It was a one time feat in comics since he only did something like it in one solitary comic and has not shown consistent strength like that since.......
@ancient_0f_days: The bench pressing feat wasn't so much "that one time" as it was "for that whole week."
Not that I disagree with you, but as much as it's touted as N52 Supes's most impressive feat, he was not even trying.
It was a one time feat in comics since he only did something like it in one solitary comic and has not shown consistent strength like that since.......
Doesn't change that he was not really trying when he did it.
@ancient_0f_days: The bench pressing feat wasn't so much "that one time" as it was "for that whole week."
Not that I disagree with you, but as much as it's touted as N52 Supes's most impressive feat, he was not even trying.
It was a one time feat in comics since he only did something like it in one solitary comic and has not shown consistent strength like that since.......
Doesn't change that he was not really trying when he did it.
Doesn't change the fact that it's inconsistent since he only did it once and hasn't done it in years.
Supes all rounds
Supes all rounds
lol, no proof
@ancient_0f_days:Oh yeah, cus Superman always comes out the gate with planet benching / Earth shaking hits.
Without PIS, is there any reason he wouldn't?
Maybe in round 2 he will but he's not fast enough to land those hits, his reaction speed is crap compared to Pre-52 Diana's
Aside from the fact that he is....why would he even have to hit her? He can just grab her and being much stronger, snap her in half
and his hits are wasted once they hit her bracers.Bring up his best combat speed feats, I'll bring up hers,
"Combat speed?" Heh. Here's his reaction speed
For the record, even normal computers operate in nanoseconds. Work how fast he is out will ya?
And some good ol Hyperbole to top it off
Here's his reaction speed used in combat
I'll even bring up Pre-52 Superman's just so we're clear who she really stacks up to (unless you think New-52 Superman is stronger cus he benched the planet's weight that one time and hits harder cus he made the earth shake).
Of course new 52 Superman is stronger. Benching the planet, moving warworld , shaking the planet from the core to space, moving Braniac's ship, all in what 4 years? A significant time in which he's been depowered (action, truth, trinity war/forever evil ) or amped (superdoom, god of strength).
That already casually blows past post crisis supes, especially given the number of appearances
He can't even scratch her without hitting bracers first, he won't make contact with her flesh and the force of all his punches will bounce right off the Aegis.
For one thing, I don't recall the bracers tanking anything on the scale of someone who benches planets , for another given he is at least as fast, he's going to do what pre 52 Supes did and punch her in the face or just flat out overpower her
Beyond that , in her own words her bracers can barely withstand post crisis supes' blows , why do you think she will do better against a stronger version?
Diana lassos him faster than she did Amazo in the first round,
How many times faster than Wally West do you feel Wonder Woman is?
in a stomp. She cuts his head off with the lasso,
When has the lasso ever cut someone as durable as Supes?
tiara
Yes something that manages to give Superman a wound that lasted barely pages is going to keep new 52 Supes down for how long, ya think?
or just fries him with Zeus lightning in the second round, in a fairly good fight
When has she ever fried anyone as durable as new 52 Superman with the same?
. She kills him in the third since he can't fight worth a damn.
He doesn't particularly need to given how much stronger he is
He's not even a good boxer in the New-52 like Pre-52 was, hes a bruiser, a brawler, Wonder Woman is capable of outpacing pre-52 Superman
Good one mate
Perhaps the most hilarious example of "outpacing" is in Flash:Rebirth 3. Most people show just the panel of Barry (supercharged on the speed force after being turned to black Flash) leaving Clark in the dust
What they leave out is who Clark left in the dust in the first place
and outskilling him,
Yet never actually managed it. To the point, the couple of times he did get serious he took her to the sun so fast "The world receded " for her sent her from sun to earth with a hit then again caused her to black out, crushed her bones with his grip alone, and burned right through her skin
Hey he then managed to forget how much stronger and faster he had already shown himself to be. He then managed to forget he's been at the centre of nukes and all without getting incapacitated by loud noises , he managed to forget that he doesn't need to "focus" to hear anything when he otherwise hears a whisper from the other side of the planet while being bombarded by red sun radiation , he then managed to forget that he is so bloodlusted that he's killing humans in his own mind...but having trouble with ....birds in the real world for some reason. Superman vs birds. HA
he has actual training in several martial arts, not to mention the skilled Daxamite she faced. Pre-52 Superman has never even actually beaten Wonder Woman in any encounter where they both fought seriously
Yet even aside from the fact that his individual feats when not facing wonder woman are quite a bit better, dude when not even trying to get into a fight bitchslapped her around for fun
I mean he explicitly didn't want to fight her in this particular issue, just keep her away
When actually bloodlusted, it required wonder woman appealing to his feelings and lasso shenaningans AND a distracton to stop him from murdering her under Circe's mind control
The other fight in Sacrifice is hilarious in what it contradicts (namely itself, pages ago) for it to be a proper fight and not a one sided beatdown
and he's never legitimately knocked Diana out during a fight even after shes stated that a few more punches might kill her.
Yes he sure didn't snap her bones like twigs....thanks to a plane
Even if you say he knocked her out during Sacrifice and she only came to cus of the heat of reentry, the fact that she woke up that easily at all is proof that she wasn't even fully KOed. Unless you're saying that a Boxer that blacks out from a punch, gets back up and wins the fight got knocked out (even though KO means you lose),
I'm saying it's somewhat astonishing that the dude who manages to punch her lights out briefly in the presence of Kryptonite, break her bones the moment he gets a grip on her, and fly so fast "the world recedes" , then manages to forget these things for the remainder of the fight in favour of some very contradictory showings with regards to how his hearing works and trouble with er...birds...is not all that credible
it doesn't even count as a knock out. Wonder Woman v2 175, she states "two more blows like that will kill me, then she takes heat vision to the face, a blow to her arm, a sucker-blitz punch holds Superman back and then catches Superman's punch..
After catching said punch she was about to have her arms snapped but for the plane appearing before finally somehow getting the lasso on him. Why leave that out? Do you feel someone who can break the other's bones with all but a firm grip (actually did it in sacrfice) is NOT clearly stronger than the other?
.Oh but New-52 Superman is gonna hit that much harder huh.
Yes someone who bench presses the planet and moves objects far larger than the planet (with help) is going to hit much harder than someone who can't move the planet on his own , sure, especially when the former's punches shake things from the centre of the earth to space
Besides dude who benches planets doesnt even need to "hit" anything to snap someone who has her bones snapped by a guy who needs help ,moving earth
New-52 has no advantages over her that his old pre-52 self had or didn't have, so how in gods name does he stomp her in any round when he is outclassed in combat speed,
New 52 Superman's reaction speed is at least as good as someone who struggles to reach lightspeed and is otherwise unable to deal with someone's who in his own words is slower than light, even when she sneak attacks him
defense and skill?
These two haven't really helped her against vastly physically superior folk, be it Doomsday or even slightly physically superior folk like Superman
my tab crashed as I was about to finish my argument which would have shat on the speed argument in place, all the scans I posted and the points I made are no longer there.....I'm too pissed about that right now. I'll do it later
@ancient_0f_days: No need to worry. We know who the superior debater is.
@agent41: You are just there saying he would easily win, when the trackrecord of their fights prove that he doesn't have an easy time fighting her.
Meanwhile you are just there moaning, in the absence of an actual argument after I tore an actual argument to shreds already.
Beyond that this is a site that goes by feats last I checked, by which yes, the equally fast dude who bench presses planets would beat her easily enough
Going by "track record of fights" we end up with Slade enjoying a frankly one sided winning record vs Wally West.You think Slade can beat Wally too, yes?TRY not to contradict yourself on this one
So stop reaching to the heavens. And funny how you then claim shazam should stalemate superman despite the fact superman has better feats and nothing
How did Shazam come into this? I'm genuinely confused.
in New 52 puts shazam in WW's league as far as feats go.
Wow even a broken clock is right twice a day but you're definitely putting that theory to the test here. Shazam, with barely a smattering of appearances in the new 52, otherwise had his counterpart Black Adam move the moon along with Sinestro in Forever Evil 7
How's Wonder Woman in her own monthly these days? Still struggling and ultimately failing to land planes?
Beyond that
The fact you said all versions of WW proves you don't know a lot about her catalogue. This is still going on because New 52 Superman doesn't stopm. New 52 WW already showed to be able to not get stomped when a bloodlusted Superman fought her. so yes, it's not a stomp.
Yes she didn't get her arms snapped like twigs by a weaker version of Superman (unlike in Sacrifice where she DID get her wrist snapped ....a strength advantage Superman forgot for the rest of the fight) and murdered thanks to the timely appearance of a plane, sure
As for this
New 52 WW already showed to be able to not get stomped when a bloodlusted Superman fought her. so yes, it's not a stomp.
Yes sure the character that can't even land a plane and is generally somewhere closer to Xena levels in her own title proceeded to forget all of that against a dude who bench presses planets and moves ships dwarfing the same, despite having no feats of her own to suggest the same despite actively starring in 3 titles including her own monthly over the last 4 years
Or, Wally West loses to Slade all the time, despite Slade having exactly zero feats in nanoseconds and otherwise struggling with Batman in his own title. Heck Slade has been outright noted to be faster than an adult "I outrace photons" Wally right before impaling him
So Slade Wilson, faster than light then?
Nevermind this isn't even about new 52 Diana
@ancient_0f_days: No need to worry. We know who the superior debater is.
Yes indeed. The dude who was forced to admit he was copy pasting out of context respect threads the last time we had a "debate" , must be the superior debater. Truly
http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/odin-and-thor-vs-supermen-1683497/?page=2
Here's where the fun begins from comment 70
I got the scans from a respect thread (originally anyway before I downloaded them and properly reviewed them fyi), I didn't read the issue, I know what you're talking about however since I read the synopsis for the issue since comics were not readily available, next best thing for the win. Not like it matters anyway, you can keep up the try hard act though, entertaining to say the most.
The thread is worth checking out, if for nothing else, just to see how a user can be called an "expert" hereabouts without apparently having read a single issue about the character
@ancient_0f_days said:
my tab crashed as I was about to finish my argument which would have shat on the speed argument in place, all the scans I posted and the points I made are no longer there.....I'm too pissed about that right now. I'll do it later
No worries. We all have problems with google every now and then . I can only imagine how much longer the respect threads on KMC or wherever are taking to load....
What argument?. In all their fights thorough 7 decades of comics Superman has never had an easy fight with her.
Over 20+ years, every time a Flash went up against Slade , he lost regardless of how many times FTL he was at that point, to the point where statements about Slade being faster than adult Wally were made'
Taking fight records over actual feats....so again, how many times FTL are you saying Slade Wilson is?
The doomsuperman she fought in that scan was weaker than Superman in Sacrifice just like she was weaker during that Witch is back arc compared to her in the Sacrifice arc, that only proves that sm is not the only one that got stronger during the Post Crisis era of the 2000s decade.
She's fighting a much stronger version of Superman here. One that can bench press planets. Seriously it's like trying to say just because post crisis supes vs diana is a good fight, she would NOT get stomped by SA Supes.
Different versions, different feats
New 52 WW is not usually on xena's levels. Whem did we see Xena lifting +100 tons things?.
Aside from that being more of a sarcastic remark, When did we see Wonder Woman doing the same?
For that matter when did we see her even doing things that below class 100 folks have done? When has she used a skyscraper as a baseball bat for instance? That's Ben Grimn levels in case you are wondering
The very lowest end of Class 100s Wonder Man can lift an island with one hand. Do you feel Diana has come close to replicating that feat, at any point in her new 52 career? Especially when she otherwise struggles with planes in her own title
She never came close to 20 tons. So stop reaching to the heavens. Also WW in the New 52 was not using her full strength when she lifted the lane.
Where was that noted?
It's easy to see how you pick up sm's one time feat and act as if that is part of his consistent showings while you try to use low sowings as WW's best, so don't try to lowball her calling her Xena level, because Superman is not consisntly performing planetary strength feats either. He hasn't done the bench press planet since that one time years ago.
"Years ago"?3 years ago is "years ago" now?
So just as one thing when he stops the superspeed descent of a ship that dwarfs the planet many times over ....er last year, do you feel that is also in the distant past then?
Shazam is a character that doesn't have feats to put him as sm's equal but you call him his equal. So yes it matters, your double standard matters.
I already explained that in the Captain Marvel thread . Keep that discussion there
This site goes by feats yes and also doesn't count abc logic.So you can keep black adam out of this, what he has done doesn't make shazam his equal or sm's equals.
Black Adam is not Superman's equal in the new 52 given what happened vs Ultraman and things like needing help to move the moon
Beyond that he has almost the exact powerset from the same source as Billy. This is like saying Zod is not a class 100 because he doesn't have feats
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