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#1 Edited by sxgt (239 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlusted logan and a refreshed and focused Maul.  Battle inside the Emperors Chambers, no prep.  
 

#2 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio

EU or G-Canon Maul?

#3 Posted by sxgt (239 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont know anything about the extended universe version, how is he different 
 
 
?
#4 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@sxgt: Faster, more resilient, arguably more skilled. 
 
And Expanded Universe, not extended. LOL.
#5 Posted by sxgt (239 posts) - - Show Bio

xD
#6 Edited by ThaMessenger07 (1779 posts) - - Show Bio
@sxgt:
#7 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@sxgt: You have yet to answer my question though. Is this EU or G-Canon Maul?
#8 Posted by jasraj (4728 posts) - - Show Bio
I will say Wolverine, Wolverine can't die and i dont see what Darth Maul can do to kill Wolverine, eventually Maul will tire out and get killed, or mabye a lightsaber could affect Wolverines bones, heat them up or something, i dont know what it would do to Wolverine
#9 Posted by NaruNick073 (173 posts) - - Show Bio

Unless A Lightsaber Can Melt Adamantium, Wolverine Wins.

#10 Posted by Measley (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Darth Maul. Maul can force choke Logan until he dies.

#11 Edited by jasraj (4728 posts) - - Show Bio
@Measley said:

"Darth Maul. Maul can force choke Logan until he dies. "


Seriously? 

The fight wont start out like that
#12 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
" @sxgt: You have yet to answer my question though. Is this EU or G-Canon Maul? "
#13 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@jasraj said:
" I will say Wolverine, Wolverine can't die and i dont see what Darth Maul can do to kill Wolverine, eventually Maul will tire out and get killed, or mabye a lightsaber could affect Wolverines bones, heat them up or something, i dont know what it would do to Wolverine "
Why do you assume this is a fight to the death? You don't have to kill Wolverine to beat him, Wolverine can be KOed.
#14 Posted by Drayco90 (20 posts) - - Show Bio

I would think a lightsaber can melt through Adamantium, it goes through everything else just fine. So- swipe, swipe, swipe- dead or not Wolverine's left in 6 or 7 pieces. Darth Maul all the way.

#15 Edited by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio

Forget it. I will simply give two different explanations. 
 
Wolverine may be able to defeat G-Canon Maul but in no way easily. I probably could make the case that Maul could win that, but I would rather leave that alone. 
 
EU Maul, on the other hand, would win without question. Elektra, Daredevil, and Captain America, if I remember correctly, have all gained the upper hand against a bloodlusted Wolverine. Maul can do the same with less effort than they would put into it. He has the definite speed and agility advantage. Not to mention, if Logan is bloodlusted, chances are he will not be utilizing his combat expertise the way he should. That also plays to Maul's benefit. Even if Wolverine did apply his skills though, considering Maul's superiority in speed, his acrobatics by use of Speed and Jump, and his Jar'Kai dueling skill, he very well still may be able to manage to down Logan. Now, lightsabers may not be able to cut through adamantium, but Maul can slash the rest of Logan's flesh. Logan has been defeated by less than repeated saber strikes throughout his body. Just for the sake of argument, assuming it did require Maul to practically disembowel Logan to beat him, he could accomplish that, however much time and however many lightsaber slashes it may take. This is not even addressing Maul's Telekinesis either. Overall, EU Maul has what it takes to defeat Wolverine. EU Maul for the win. 

#16 Edited by Measley (14 posts) - - Show Bio
@jasraj:  Really? How would it start out? Logan stalking Maul in the forest of something?
 
If its arena style, this fight is over before it begins with the force choke. If Logan is able to ambush Maul, he may have a chance. However, with ridiculous amounts of agility, a weapon that can cut through anything, and the force, I don't see how Wolverine stands a chance.
#17 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Measley: Maul is not defeating Logan by Force Choke. Maul can win this, but please, let's try to be realistic. 
#18 Posted by Measley (14 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467:  Wolverine needs to breathe right? Maul can force choke right? What's the issue?
#19 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Measley: First, Maul's Choke is not similar to Vader's Choke. He has no feats with it that compare in anyway, whatsoever. If this were Vader, then he could win via Choke. Maul is not Vader. Second, Wolverine can hold his breath much longer than a normal human. The amount of time would be required to defeat him by use of Choke would be longer than you assume. Third, with Logan's constant savage attacks (as he is bloodlusted), Maul's receiving an opportunity to simply beat him with Choke is minimal. He would have to focus on reacting and counterstriking with Jar'Kai than he would using Choke. If this were a more generic telekinetic power, like Push or Throw, then it would be more likely for Maul to manage that. Fourth, Choke is not a common power for Maul to use anyway. More likely, he would attack Wolverine head on in using his lightsaber, than anything else. That in mind, even if Maul could beat Wolverine by use of Choke, the odds of him even deciding on that particular means of victory is also minimal. 
#20 Posted by thegentlemanrogue (722 posts) - - Show Bio

I think people vastly over estimate the battle effectiveness of the force. It isn't an instant win ability. Using the force requires concentration and focus, there is a reason why offensive force abilities rarely rears their head during light saber duals outside of the odd force push. Maul snatching Logan with a force choke during combat is extremely unlikely.
 
Wolverine has dealt with characters with similar power sets before. Telepathic, telekinetics with considerable MA skill is nothing new. He has beaten several, some of which could turn intangible or were pyrokeneitcs as well, berserker Wolverine completely overwhelmed Psylocke in melee, she was helpless against him until a third party interfered.  Energy based weapons aren't anything he hasn't encountered either, and frankly the Marvel U is significantly more technologically advanced, and light sabers can't even cut through anything in the Starwars universe. Don't really see Maul having what it takes to beat Wolverine regardless of what continuity we are using.

#21 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue said:
" I think people vastly over estimate the battle effectiveness of the force. It isn't an instant win ability. Using the force requires concentration and focus, there is a reason why offensive force abilities rarely rears their head during light saber duals outside of the odd force push. Maul snatching Logan with a force choke during combat is extremely unlikely.  Wolverine has dealt with characters with similar power sets before. Telepathic, telekinetics with considerable MA skill is nothing new. He has beaten several, some of which could turn intangible or were pyrokeneitcs as well, berserker Wolverine completely overwhelmed Psylocke in melee, she was helpless against him until a third party interfered.  Energy based weapons aren't anything he hasn't encountered either, and frankly the Marvel U is significantly more technologically advanced, and light sabers can't even cut through anything in the Starwars universe. Don't really see Maul having what it takes to beat Wolverine regardless of what continuity we are using. "
What? You mean they can cut through anything except a certain metal in the Star Wars Universe. 
 
Anyway, you're assuming that Maul is a Lightsaber Duelist that focuses on force powers, but that's where you're wrong. Maul simply relies on his skills when dueling opponents. Why does this matter? Because then you're entire argument that Wolverine can beat Maul because he's beaten telekinetics before is now moot! Indeed, Wolverine might stand a good chance if he used his skills, but, he's bloodlusted here and thus can't. So that means Maul can overwhelm Wolverine with a barrage of attacks and Wolverine will be too stupid to accurately block the attacks.
#22 Posted by Measley (14 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: Aren't we talking about a focused and refreshed Maul? A Maul that has incredible hand-eye co-ordination, agility, and mid-level telekinetic abilities?
 
Frankly, if Vader can stop Wolverine, than Maul should be able to stop him too. Maul effectively beat 2 highly skill Jedi fighting together, and killed a Jedi master. We're talking about a more powerful version of that guy folks!
#23 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@Measley said:

" @Silver2467: Aren't we talking about a focused and refreshed Maul? A Maul that has incredible hand-eye co-ordination, agility, and mid-level telekinetic abilities?  Frankly, if Vader can stop Wolverine, than Maul should be able to stop him too. Maul effectively beat 2 highly skill Jedi fighting together, and killed a Jedi master. We're talking about a more powerful version of that guy folks! "

This is complete ABC logic that translate terribly to this situation. Vader is not Maul, and Maul did not defeat Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon by using Choke. That analogy makes no sense.  
 
You have not even addressed what I said, and I would appreciate it if you would acknowledge and respond to my arguments instead of dodging them. So in case you missed my post, here it is: 
@Silver2467 said: 

@Measley: First, Maul's Choke is not similar to Vader's Choke. He has no feats with it that compare in anyway, whatsoever. If this were Vader, then he could win via Choke. Maul is not Vader. Second, Wolverine can hold his breath much longer than a normal human. The amount of time would be required to defeat him by use of Choke would be longer than you assume. Third, with Logan's constant savage attacks (as he is bloodlusted), Maul's receiving an opportunity to simply beat him with Choke is minimal. He would have to focus on reacting and counterstriking with Jar'Kai than he would using Choke. If this were a more generic telekinetic power, like Push or Throw, then it would be more likely for Maul to manage that. Fourth, Choke is not a common power for Maul to use anyway. More likely, he would attack Wolverine head on in using his lightsaber, than anything else. That in mind, even if Maul could beat Wolverine by use of Choke, the odds of him even deciding on that particular means of victory is also minimal.  "

#24 Posted by thegentlemanrogue (722 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:

" @thegentlemanrogue said:

" I think people vastly over estimate the battle effectiveness of the force. It isn't an instant win ability. Using the force requires concentration and focus, there is a reason why offensive force abilities rarely rears their head during light saber duals outside of the odd force push. Maul snatching Logan with a force choke during combat is extremely unlikely.  Wolverine has dealt with characters with similar power sets before. Telepathic, telekinetics with considerable MA skill is nothing new. He has beaten several, some of which could turn intangible or were pyrokeneitcs as well, berserker Wolverine completely overwhelmed Psylocke in melee, she was helpless against him until a third party interfered.  Energy based weapons aren't anything he hasn't encountered either, and frankly the Marvel U is significantly more technologically advanced, and light sabers can't even cut through anything in the Starwars universe. Don't really see Maul having what it takes to beat Wolverine regardless of what continuity we are using. "
What? You mean they can cut through anything except a certain metal in the Star Wars Universe.   Anyway, you're assuming that Maul is a Lightsaber Duelist that focuses on force powers, but that's where you're wrong. Maul simply relies on his skills when dueling opponents. Why does this matter? Because then you're entire argument that Wolverine can beat Maul because he's beaten telekinetics before is now moot! Indeed, Wolverine might stand a good chance if he used his skills, but, he's bloodlusted here and thus can't. So that means Maul can overwhelm Wolverine with a barrage of attacks and Wolverine will be too stupid to accurately block the attacks. "
Cortosis, Mandalorian Iron, Phirk, the swords used by the Night Sisters, and several other metals in the Starwars universe are all immune or resistant to light saber attacks. The notion that a light saber could cut Adamantium is absurd, they wouldn't even scratch it.
 
Unless two combatants are standing perfectly still and staring at one another, the capabilities of the force are severely limited.
 
Almost every discourse on the subject strongly suggest - if doesn't out right state - that Berserker Wolverine is better than a calm Wolverine in every possible way. Berserker Wolverine heals faster, he moves faster; he is physically and mentally stronger, functionally immune to even the most powerful telepaths  and he is more skilled. Bloodlusted Wolverine's only determent is that he will kill with complete indiscretion. Friend, foe, it doesn't matter. He doesn't want to control the beast because it makes him sloppy, he wants to control it because when he goes red he is the perfect killer and he can't be controlled.
#25 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue:  Right then. You'd agree that Lightsabers can cut skin, correct?
 
The force has little to nothing to do with this battle as Maul rarely if ever uses force powers, so there's no need to mention it and what you think it's capabilities are.  
 
Calm Wolverine is far more skilled, as you can see via feats. Calm Wolverine takes less hits, has faced better opponents and is less dependent on his healing factor. The "beast" as you put it, is sloppy, he simply attacks opponents with nothing but berserk speed and strenght, which while deadly to someone slower and less skilled than Maul, it is useless against Maul as he has the speed to dodge Wolverine and the skill to effectively counter.
#26 Posted by Sherlock (7255 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:
" @thegentlemanrogue:  Right then. You'd agree that Lightsabers can cut skin, correct?  The force has little to nothing to do with this battle as Maul rarely if ever uses force powers, so there's no need to mention it and what you think it's capabilities are.    Calm Wolverine is far more skilled, as you can see via feats. Calm Wolverine takes less hits, has faced better opponents and is less dependent on his healing factor. The "beast" as you put it, is sloppy, he simply attacks opponents with nothing but berserk speed and strenght, which while deadly to someone slower and less skilled than Maul, it is useless against Maul as he has the speed to dodge Wolverine and the skill to effectively counter. "
I was gonna say something similar to that but you beat me to it so cudos to you =)
#27 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sherlock: Thanks.
#28 Posted by thegentlemanrogue (722 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:
" @thegentlemanrogue:  Right then. You'd agree that Lightsabers can cut skin, correct?  The force has little to nothing to do with this battle as Maul rarely if ever uses force powers, so there's no need to mention it and what you think it's capabilities are.    Calm Wolverine is far more skilled, as you can see via feats. Calm Wolverine takes less hits, has faced better opponents and is less dependent on his healing factor. The "beast" as you put it, is sloppy, he simply attacks opponents with nothing but berserk speed and strenght, which while deadly to someone slower and less skilled than Maul, it is useless against Maul as he has the speed to dodge Wolverine and the skill to effectively counter. "
Of course, but I was responding to the notion that a light saber could cut Adamantium because "it cuts through everything else" which isn't true, even in the confines of Starwars canon.
 
It's relevant because someone said Maul could simply win via force choke.... which I don't think he can... which is why I mentioned the limitations of the force....
 
Wolverine takes hits regardless of if he is berserk or not. His entire fighting style is predicated on purposely taking a hit to expose an opening on his opponent, knowing most opponents would be hard pressed to go shot for shot. It is a fighting style tailored to his strengths, not evidence of a lack of skill. Wolverine has beat more skilled people when he is calm only because he rarely goes berserk on heroes... since... he would kill them. Berserker Wolverine is more skilled, it has been made abundantly clear several times. Pro. X has said it, Forge has said it.... even Wolverine has said it. Outside of a few isolated instances - which are largely all ages titles like Wolverine First Class where Wolverine wasn't really permited to cut lose, so making the B-Rage a weakness is plot device to facilitate a rating - Berserker Wolverine being better in every way is well documented. 
 
Wolverine is like Durge times 10, and like Durge he would be a threat for virtually any force user.
#29 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue:  I am not here to argue Adamantium vs Lightsaber so I don't care. Right so now you've admitted that Maul can cut Wolverine's skin, this is all I need. 
 
I'm not the one who said Maul wins by force choke, thus I don't care. It is irrelevant to your debate with me
 
His fighting style? I'm sorry, but I think you're missing the point of what berserk means, what can not logically fight with any style as they're only guided by rage. Prof. X, Forge, and Wolverine said berserk Wolverine is more dangerous not more skilled. That's because he's going to kill no matter what. Nothing more, nothing less. None of this is evidence of him being more skilled. 
 
You keep saying "force users" not Maul. Tell me, what Force users has Durge beaten? And more importantly, why is Wolverine Durge times 10?
#30 Posted by thegentlemanrogue (722 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:

" @thegentlemanrogue:  I am not here to argue Adamantium vs Lightsaber so I don't care. Right so now you've admitted that Maul can cut Wolverine's skin, this is all I need. 
 
I'm not the one who said Maul wins by force choke, thus I don't care. It is irrelevant to your debate with me.   His fighting style? I'm sorry, but I think you're missing the point of what berserk means, what can not logically fight with any style as they're only guided by rage. Prof. X, Forge, and Wolverine said berserk Wolverine is more dangerous not more skilled. That's because he's going to kill no matter what. Nothing more, nothing less. None of this is evidence of him being more skilled.   You keep saying "force users" not Maul. Tell me, what Force users has Durge beaten? And more importantly, why is Wolverine Durge times 10? "

The lightsaber and force points that I had brought up were a response to other points already brought up... and then you quoted me... and then after I posted a rebuttal you said you don't care.  Maybe in the future you don't quote something if you don't understand or care about the context? 
 
Professor X has said Wolverine in Berseker Rage is the perfect killer. Forge has flat out said that it doesn't make him sloppy at all and is the equivalent of an Olympic gymnast preforming a gold medal routine while simultaneously beating two super computers a chess. Wolverine has said it is the equivalent of days of fighting compressed into minutes and that he is an artist of death but like all great artists his skill won't be appreciated until he is dead. That is the entire point of Wolverine's Berserker Rage, that it makes him the perfect killer, free of the confines and double guessing of a conscious mind. He is pure instinct, and his combat instinct is perfect.
 
Durge has beaten Anakin and Obi-wan. Wolverine is like Durge times 10 because his healing factor and durability are at least an order of magnitude superior to Durge's own healing factor and durability.
#31 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue:  I brought of the Lightsaber thing to prove a point, that the Lightsaber can cut Wolverine's skin. 
The force powers have always been irrelevant to me, I do not care if you think I was arguing for that guy who said Maul would force coke, I'm not, thus it's irrelevant. 
 
Perfect Killer does not mean more skilled than non berserk  Wolverine. And Forge, the man who's power is being able to build stuff, knows this how? More importantly when did he say this and why should it be taken at face value. You keep saying perfect killer as if that makes him more skilled. It does not, it means he'll simply do anything to kill. Pure instinct is perfect? Really? Does that mean that there's no point in formal training at all and that everyone is just born ready to kill everything with one hit? Please avoid using such flimsy reasoning. 
 
You mean the same Anakin who often pulls stupid stunts because he's an arrogant young punk, and the same Obi-Wan who's master was killed by Maul? Oh and before you bring up the Obi-Wan beating Maul, I should note that not only is that ABC logic, but based on what we saw in Maul's movie appearance, it is also PIS. 
Proof of this 10 times theory?
#32 Posted by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue said:
"I think people vastly over estimate the battle effectiveness of the force. It isn't an instant win ability. Using the force requires concentration and focus, there is a reason why offensive force abilities rarely rears their head during light saber duals outside of the odd force push. Maul snatching Logan with a force choke during combat is extremely unlikely.  Wolverine has dealt with characters with similar power sets before. Telepathic, telekinetics with considerable MA skill is nothing new. He has beaten several, some of which could turn intangible or were pyrokeneitcs as well, berserker Wolverine completely overwhelmed Psylocke in melee, she was helpless against him until a third party interfered.  Energy based weapons aren't anything he hasn't encountered either, and frankly the Marvel U is significantly more technologically advanced, and light sabers can't even cut through anything in the Starwars universe. Don't really see Maul having what it takes to beat Wolverine regardless of what continuity we are using. "

This^
#33 Posted by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:

" @thegentlemanrogue:  I brought of the Lightsaber thing to prove a point, that the Lightsaber can cut Wolverine's skin.  The force powers have always been irrelevant to me, I do not care if you think I was arguing for that guy who said Maul would force coke, I'm not, thus it's irrelevant.   Perfect Killer does not mean more skilled than non berserk  Wolverine. And Forge, the man who's power is being able to build stuff, knows this how? More importantly when did he say this and why should it be taken at face value. You keep saying perfect killer as if that makes him more skilled. It does not, it means he'll simply do anything to kill. Pure instinct is perfect? Really? Does that mean that there's no point in formal training at all and that everyone is just born ready to kill everything with one hit? Please avoid using such flimsy reasoning.   You mean the same Anakin who often pulls stupid stunts because he's an arrogant young punk, and the same Obi-Wan who's master was killed by Maul? Oh and before you bring up the Obi-Wan beating Maul, I should note that not only is that ABC logic, but based on what we saw in Maul's movie appearance, it is also PIS.  Proof of this 10 times theory? "


 
 
And Adamantium  or even bone claws will cut through Mauls skin so your point is.............

  
Garroting Wolverine like Qui-Jon won't do much when you have a healing factor. 
 

#34 Edited by k4tzm4n (41258 posts) - - Show Bio

The lightsaber doesn't need to cut through adamantium to defeat Wolverine.  He can still be incapacitated and KO'd with all of his limbs in tact.  Maul has the attributes and skill to inflict enough damage with the lightsaber to assorted regions of Wolverine.  Breaking/cutting of adamantium is not required at all.
Staff
#35 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@AMS:  My point is that Wolverine can be harmed by Maul's attacks. I only pointed this out because I have a feeling that my opponent will try and back out of that point later on. 
 
I never said Maul was going to kill Wolverine, I only said he was going to beat him.
#36 Posted by Silver2467 (16527 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said:
" The lightsaber doesn't need to cut through adamantium to defeat Wolverine.  He can still be incapacitated and KO'd with all of his limbs in tact.  Maul has the attributes and skill to inflict enough damage with the lightsaber to assorted regions of Wolverine.  Breaking/cutting of adamantium is not required at all. "
This. 
#38 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sexy Merc: I'm honestly surprised someone would actually make this, much less that many times.
#39 Posted by Sexy Merc (42072 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite: 
 
 
#40 Edited by thegentlemanrogue (722 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:

" @thegentlemanrogue:  I brought of the Lightsaber thing to prove a point, that the Lightsaber can cut Wolverine's skin.  The force powers have always been irrelevant to me, I do not care if you think I was arguing for that guy who said Maul would force coke, I'm not, thus it's irrelevant.   Perfect Killer does not mean more skilled than non berserk  Wolverine. And Forge, the man who's power is being able to build stuff, knows this how? More importantly when did he say this and why should it be taken at face value. You keep saying perfect killer as if that makes him more skilled. It does not, it means he'll simply do anything to kill. Pure instinct is perfect? Really? Does that mean that there's no point in formal training at all and that everyone is just born ready to kill everything with one hit? Please avoid using such flimsy reasoning.   You mean the same Anakin who often pulls stupid stunts because he's an arrogant young punk, and the same Obi-Wan who's master was killed by Maul? Oh and before you bring up the Obi-Wan beating Maul, I should note that not only is that ABC logic, but based on what we saw in Maul's movie appearance, it is also PIS.  Proof of this 10 times theory? "

The entire point of formal martial training, is to practice over and over, for the moves to become like instinct, second nature. It isn't second nature for Wolverine, it is first nature (another thing he himself has said), Berserker Wolverine is what every martial arts spends their life time to become, only his combat instinct is innate. When he came out of the wilderness of Alberta after leading the wolf pack, he was the perfect fighter. The Forge quote was made while he was monitoring Wolverine's vitals in the Danger Room after he lost his Adamantium, to test his current abilities.

No the Obi-wan who released the weakness in his combat abilities after Maul killed his master and became the greatest master of  Form III light saber combat Soresu in the history of the force, and Anakin who was one of the most powerful and skilled Jedi of all time.
#41 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue:  I disagree. Simple as that, instinct doesn't equal skill and you've presented no evidence to show otherwise. 
 
Obi-Wan who surprised Maul with an attack Maul should have logically seen coming. Oh and Anakin is not the most powerful and skilled Jedi. He lost to Obi-Wan and it's clear cannon wise that Luke is the most powerful and skilled Jedi.
#42 Edited by PirateKing69 (4290 posts) - - Show Bio
@k4tzm4n said:

" The lightsaber doesn't need to cut through adamantium to defeat Wolverine.  He can still be incapacitated and KO'd with all of his limbs in tact.  Maul has the attributes and skill to inflict enough damage with the lightsaber to assorted regions of Wolverine.  Breaking/cutting of adamantium is not required at all. "

 Agree with this..
I think Maul got this his a very skilled sith
#43 Edited by thegentlemanrogue (722 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:

" @thegentlemanrogue:  I disagree. Simple as that, instinct doesn't equal skill and you've presented no evidence to show otherwise.   Obi-Wan who surprised Maul with an attack Maul should have logically seen coming. Oh and Anakin is not the most powerful and skilled Jedi. He lost to Obi-Wan and it's clear cannon wise that Luke is the most powerful and skilled Jedi. "

Ordinarily you would be right of course. Skill and instinct are not generally synonymous, but Wolverine is an isolated case. When he finally crawled out of the wilderness after decades of leading a wolf pack, killing had become primary nature to him, more natural than breathing. We've had narrative confirmation several times. 
 
Again: Obi-Wan completely changed his fighting style after fighting Maul. He became the definitive master of the Form III light saber style. The Obi-Wan who beat Maul and the one who fought Anakin in RotS are barely the same character in terms of skill and technique. RotS Kenobi would fold Maul and Qui-Gon like lawn chairs. I said Anakin was "one of the most powerful force users of all time," not that he was the most powerful so Luke being more powerful doesn't really contradict me....
#44 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue: Narrative does not make it fact. I've seen plenty of other times where it was shown that going berserk negatively effected Wolverine's skill. 
 
You know what? I'm not debating this until you prove it's relevant to this battle. Prove that Wolverine is better than Durge in every way or else this entire thing is moot. 
 
It's clear that you need to learn something about proving your claims. No dancing around my demands for evidence.
#45 Posted by Freefa11 (2337 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:
" @thegentlemanrogue: Narrative does not make it fact. I've seen plenty of other times where it was shown that going berserk negatively effected Wolverine's skill.
I know in at least one issue fighting Sabretooth, he said as much himself, and was careful not to lose control in that fight, because he knew Sabretooth's beast was better than his, so he only had a chance of beating him "as a man."
#46 Posted by thegentlemanrogue (722 posts) - - Show Bio
@Decoy Elite said:
" @thegentlemanrogue: Narrative does not make it fact. I've seen plenty of other times where it was shown that going berserk negatively effected Wolverine's skill.   You know what? I'm not debating this until you prove it's relevant to this battle. Prove that Wolverine is better than Durge in every way or else this entire thing is moot.   It's clear that you need to learn something about proving your claims. No dancing around my demands for evidence. "
Objection!!!
 
Seriously, you're a real 'hoot dude.
 
I tell you that Wolverine is like Durge but better. You say "How he is better?" So I tell you Wolverine essentially has the same powers set that allowed Durge to be a threat to Jedi (ie: durability / healing factor) only far more powerful. Then you ask who Durge has beaten - making it clear you have no idea who Durge is BTW - so I tell you. Then you try and discredit Obi-Wan and Anakin. I explain that even if Obi-Wan got lucky against Maul, that he was a complete different beast by the time he fought Durge. Now you want proof that Wolverine better than Durge, a character you clearly weren't aware of until I brought him up? Wolverine eats Hulk level punches, has tanked two nuclear bombs, two nuclear reactor melt downs, survived having all his organs harvested, his heart being removed and eaten didn't k.o. him, he has survived decapitation and climbed out of a vat of molten metal. If you need more proof that Wolverine is superior, maybe you should figure out what both he and Durge have done.
#47 Posted by thegentlemanrogue (722 posts) - - Show Bio
@Freefa11 said:
" @Decoy Elite said:
" @thegentlemanrogue: Narrative does not make it fact. I've seen plenty of other times where it was shown that going berserk negatively effected Wolverine's skill.
I know in at least one issue fighting Sabretooth, he said as much himself, and was careful not to lose control in that fight, because he knew Sabretooth's beast was better than his, so he only had a chance of beating him "as a man." "
The afore mentioned All Ages Wolverine First Class which I already mentioned. All Ages Wolverine can't cut lose and go berserker, not really at least. So his rage, a well documented characteristic, becomes a detriment to the plot of the book that needs to be addressed.
#48 Posted by Sherlock (7255 posts) - - Show Bio

Whenever iv seen Logan in a berserk rage hes taking a lot more unnecessary hits them when not in it the difference is that hes not really taking any notice of it making it a lot easier to beat his opponent who just gets overwhelmed with the constant attacking

#49 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio
@thegentlemanrogue: Durge also has powerful weaponry, you forgot about that. 
I know who Durge is, I'm simply not knowledgeable on who exactly he's beaten.
Incorrect, I'm simply pointing out that their losses are completely understandable given certain circumstances. 
 
You clearly don't understand what the word evidence means. I don't mean you rambling on about Wolverine, I want actual scans and such.  
 
Although I honestly can find Wolverine being KOed by less for every time you post him getting nuked.
#50 Posted by Reactor (2529 posts) - - Show Bio

 


 
And boom goes the dynamite. Wolverine get's KO'd via Force Choke. Maul's every bit as capable of choking someone mid-air as Darth Vader (though Vader has much greater overall telekinetic feats). Even Wolverine needs to breath.