wolverine vs captain america vs black panther vs iron fist

iron fist

@super_soldierxii: The run in question is currently a moot point anyway since Logan's skill feats, with or without the healing factor, far outweigh whatever Cornell is doing anyway.

Another problem with Danny having no chi is that he uses it to increase his speed. While Wolverine's speed is unchanging.

Fair point, but I just wanted to point out that it was still a factor in that fight.

@cable_extreme:

no wolverine will lose a little speed and strength just not a lot.

Good point, but Wolverine without a healing factor, do you think that would throw off his game a little? To me it would seem like all those years he trained was with his healing factor in mind, which allows him to employ tactics like taking a hit to get in close and quickly end the fight ect...

I feel like the original intention of this thread was to just put all 4 characters on the same level of physical stats so they can duke it out, and whoever is more skilled obviously wins.

While Cornell has indeed tried to justify Wolverine tanking a fight more often than not (as he had Black Panther point out), it's not just Cornell anymore. Zeb Wells over in Savage Wolverine tried to establish much of the same;

I can get on board with this.

Hasn't current Cap just gotten around 11 years of experience?

I'd put him on par with BP considering everyone are physically at the same level with the conditions set.

@super_soldierxii: I know, I read that arc too, and it still falls into the same category. Wolverine's track record against skilled opponents backs up the lazy statement and that is something even Master Po supplemented by saying he is lazy. But the showings are still there with or without the healing factor. Cornell's interpretation is that Logan got lazy and lost some skill despite enough showings over the past two years to suggest that is false. Zeb's interpretation is that Logan starts out crappy, while this is true in some instances just because he is lazy as pointed out by Master Po, but then Logan goes berserk, which isn't true in the majority of his fights either. If the point of this thread is to find out who is the most skilled barring powers then we look at the said track record and skill feats and I find that Logan has the ones to take this. There is no reason to even mention Cornell and Zeb into this fight when their statements are not consistent in terms of his overall showings.

I do so love playing devil's advocate.

Thanks for humoring me ... thought I'd clear that air and who better to do so with ... ^

@super_soldierxii: Did you just play me from the beginning...>_>

@god_spawn: sorry to bump this but who do you believe the most skilled is? In order.

Star lord and batman dominate

@supermanwithatan01:

I'll give you the order in my opinion.

Iron Fist

Wolverine

Black Panther

Captain America

@supermanwithatan01: Wolverine and Danny is a toss up for 1st. T'Challa comes next followed by Steve.

@cable_extreme: Is Logan better than Cap? Matt?

Why not?

Why not?

1. Iron Fist/ Wolverine (Would personally toss my bone to Danny here for a slim majority.)

2. Black Panther

3. Captain America

Black Panther

Iron Fist

Wolverine

Captain America

@monsterstomp: What makes Black Panther better than Iron Fist or Wolverine?

@wolverine08: He did barely beat a chi amped Iron Fist. Though I do think Wolverine's durability would be his main saviour.

Wolverine

Black Panther

Iron Fist

Captain America/Daredevil

@wolverine08: Scratch that.

@monsterstomp: The OP is asking who is the bestut in terms of martial skill, and I think your list is fine, but I'd go with:

1. Iron Fist

2. Wolverine

3. Black Panther

4. Daredevil

5. Captain America

@wolverine08: Yeah I just read his confusing as rules all bundled up so much that I have to read it 5 times. I wouldn't really know in that case. Everyone has beaten everyone or has squared off against each other. I still see Panther > Wolverine though. I think he has more feats in the hand to hand department.

You are still throwing Danny in the number 1 spot, so I guess I really can't argue this list=)

@monsterstomp: More feats? Not really. If anything, James has picked up more feats in the skill department by virtue of being in about 5.5 times more comics than T'Challa has managed to. Then when you compare that James has also shown a more extensive and varied quality of training, and reps a more defined knowledge in martial arts, I really don't see what T'Challa has done to make himself the superior. I think they are in the same league, but wouldn't give T'Challa any edge unless we are dealing with Jobberine.

@supermanwithatan01: yes, wolverine has surprising showings if skill.

Indeed!

I'm going to refer to Jashro's recent argument. Wolverine relies on his HF more than he relies on his skill. That's not to downplay his skill though. Wolverine is a very skilled combatant. By feats, Daredevil has dropped Wolverine and T'Challa has just beaten a chi amped Danny. I see T'Challa coming out top here.

@monsterstomp: Jashro even noted in his opening argument that in terms of pure skill, he believes Wolverine to be superior due to having better training, and more showings of martial art knowledge. His argument is centered around the idea that he believes that T'Challa is close, and that he uses his slightly inferior skill more efficiently. Read it over again.

Daredevil dropped a Wolverine who was mind controlled and exhausted in a story in which it was subtly noted that his performance was being effected by not having control over his actions. The one torn Daredevil actually fought James when both were 100%, in the span of a few moves, Matt ended up in a full Nelson, and could have been killed.

T'Challa beat a Chi amped Iron Fist who was mind controlled, and had to pull out a sonic device to cheat for the win. That really doesn't equate to being able to beat either Danny or James here when he lacks on certain parts of the skill department compared to them.

Black Panther whould beat them all.The second is Iron Fist.The third Wolverine.The fourth Captain America.

@werewolf1238910: if cap does not turn sickly then it goes

wolverine

cap

fist

panther

I would say Iron Fist. He defeated and killed a Dragon in his early teens without the use of any powers (they might have retcon it).

Wolverine without his healing factor has been shown to not be himself, on top of that we've never seen him fight without his mutant powers at all. Steve depowered took down multiple super soldiers. Black Panther depowered was fighting street thugs from my memory. Daredevil has never fought or displayed H2H without his powers.

Iron FIst probably has the best feat with no powers, killing a dragon. The fight has been depicted differently throughout the years. I believe it has been shown to go differently 3 times but the most recent one he didn't have any powers and didn't hug it to death.

I would like to give a honorable mention to Shang-Chi, they guy does a lot without powers whatsoever as well.

I don't get the OP and what is truly restricted though.

Not quite sure about that, Iron Fist was pretty hard for him when he was taken over. And Panther is not the most skilled out of the 4 of them.

IMO the list depends on other factors.

IF overall.

BP solid second.

Wolverine rare times when he acts like a master is third.

Captain America overall is fourth.

Wolverine in character and fights like a raging teenager takes fourth with Cap taking Third..

@cadencev2: Well, he fights like that in character like that when he has the healing factor and knows he can get away with it. Here, he's going to be forced to be using the skill since he has no powers, and will probably come in second. Even looking at things, it's pretty in character for James to fight skilled fighters with skill. I do agree he end up last if he really doesn't try. Lol.

If Wolverine is fighting like he is supposed to I would give him first, slight majority over Ironfist than Tchalla followed by Steve.

Logan while being incredibly skilled in his way of fighting (incorporating his advantages like his bone structure, healing factor ect...) will be at a disadvantage here vs fighters that aren't really sacrificing their fighting style. When looking at characters that are so close in skill, disadvantages make or break a fighter.

Fair enough, I'll give you that, my bad.

The second statement is somewhat contradictory. Isn't efficiency better?

Wolverine only because chi is restricted for Iron Fist

They are very close, it is almost like tossing up a coin and calling heads or tails.

@monsterstomp: Depends on your goal. If Black Panther and Wolverine got into a contest about who can take out a group of no name thugs first, Wolverine's usual style of soaking tings that he knows can with the healing factor and clawing around will probably lead him to lose to Black Panther, who would be aiming to get things done as quickly as possible using his skill. It could also have an effect in a real fight if he doesn't utilize his skill wisely at first, and takes serious damage from T'Challa's equipment like Jashro is arguing. On the otherhand, James' lack of efficiency at times could be viewed as not being that detrimental as it seems if you look at it as him only soaking what he knows he can like Super Soldier is trying to argue. Might actually agree with Super Soldier, but I wonder if Wolverine actually knows what the energy daggers and anti metal claws can do to him.

I don't get it. Are all combatants turned into normal humans? Lets discuss scenarios here I guess since OP abandoned thread.

1. All are human and equal in stats.

2. All retain their physical abilities but no healing factor and chi.

Wolverine does not have adamantium in either 1 and 2.

Scenario 1: IF, Captain America, Black Panther then Wolverine

IF has a lot of feats without Chi. his Golden Age up till his solo series he hardly ever used the Iron Fist. He has defeated a Dragon just using his own natural physiology.

Without powers, CA has defeated Crossbones and when he was completely depowered to a 95lb weakling, he was able to defeat 200+ lb super soldiers.

Wolverine, I'm not sure what he has done completely depowered. There is no doubt he has skil but he doesn't have the feats in a completely depowered form to be up there.

Black Panther has been depowered before and performed quite well without his heart shape herb. I don't think he's ever gone up against anyone as skilled as CB though.

Scenario 2: Wolverine, CA and BP are all tied. IF would be last since he lacks the stats to contend with the 3.

My argument in my debate with super_soldier is that wolverine has shown more knowledge (wolverines training has been more expanded on then T'challas) then black panther however because wolverine relies on his healing factor so much black panther uses his knowledge/skill better then wolverine does. That is why I said despite wolverine being "more skilled" black panther is the over all better fighter.

Depowered black panther has lots of feats (read right to left):

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

All of this he did without influence from the heart shaped herb or any enhancements.

@jashro44: Beautiful, thank you those are great. i recall the lady bullseye and some of those kraven ones. Haven't seen him fight his uncle. Will take a look a reassess my post.

@jashro44: Thanks for the clarification. My bad, lol.