Wolverine vs Buffy and Xena

vs

Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Xena the Warrior Princess team up to take down Wolverine.

Xena and Buffy heard the only way to surely win is stabbing his heart. Wolverine heard both these chicks are meta human.

Wolverine has his Adamantium. Xena has her sword, whip, knife, and Chakram. Buffy has her stakes, crossbow, and Slayer Scythe.

Fight here starting 20 feet apart.

Wolverine Respect Thread

Xena the Warrior Princess Respect Thread

Buffy the Vampire Slayer Respect Thread

I think they can get a ko on wolverine but it will be difficult.

Buffy and Xena. Now I want to rewatch Xena.

Its such a great show. i enjoyed it way more than Hercs show to be honest.

@gojira2014: Was the Hercules show... disappointing?

not per say, but the character himself was not hot o sexy to look at.

bump

@night4345: lol

@gojira2014: They KO him, but he could kill either one in a one on one fight. They are both stronger, he's more durable & of course he has that ole pesky healing factor. I think Xena is at least as skilled as he is, he should be more skilled than Buffy though. They'll get cut up a lot, if Xena can tag him with her Chakram, & Buffy can lay some hard hits on him. I don't see a huge gap in speed here, so that doesn't really factor in for me.

Team 7/10

nice breakdown.

@gojira2014: Buffy is skilled, but she really isn't that skilled when compared to the top tier skilled characters. She really relies more on improv, which is really good at being unpredictable. That's why she could beat Spike,even though he had already killed 2 slayers. She doesn't act, fight, or think like a traditional Slayer.

Logan

Logan

The team should be able to take this one.

She also has a skill advantage in the fact she is a Slayer, and thus gains the skill and memories of past Slayers as well. Innate skill if you will.

Gallery

@gojira2014: That points to experience and Slayer intuition, not skill. Having the memories of all of the Dead Slayers, didn't help the potential Slayers actual skill level. They still, all had to get training to refine the experience gained. The Slayer intuition basically helps guide them in a fight and have incredible instincts. Such as in the episode in season 7, Potential. That potential slayer picked up a weapon and started fighting fodder without training, but she was doing so on pure instinct. If the Slayer memory factor was a huge advantage towards skill, then everyone that became a Slayer after Buffy would all become just as skilled as she was automatically. That's not how it works though, the skill does not stack, experience does and like I said It gives the, nature enhanced instincts.

ends in sex

This is no all accurate as season 5 Angel episode Damage had a psychotic slayer locked up all her life in a insane asylum kick the crap out of Spike in a legit fight. No skill? I think not.

@gojira2014: Kick the crap out of him because;

A. Slayers are stronger

B. Once again this proves the theory of natural instinct, she had no training and she did not use skill, she straight up over powered him. I'm gonna take some screen shots of the fight on Netflix or try to find a video clip to,post.

C. Spike wasn't trying to hurt her, neither was Angel. In fact Spike underestimated her.

D. Her strength was further amped from her craziness.

A) by feats, vampires are nearly as strong as Slayers, and the age of the little girl makes a difference too since she was younger by alot to Buffy.

B) she was speaking CHINESE cause she was fully filled with the Slayers memories before her.

Thats more than instinct, that is outright knowledge.

C) he did not fully underestimate her as he knew she had super stats before fighting her, he just thought she was a demon and not a skilled Slayer.

D) this one I can give ta ya.

@gojira2014:

A.) Vampires are not as strong as Slayers. Average Vamp is not as strong as average slayer, so if you are about to show feats of Spike & Angel those two are not average vamps by any means. Neither are vamps like Darla, Drusllia, or the Master.

B. Yes, knowledge information, not skill. I can read a book on kung fu & watch every fight Bruce Lee has ever fought, that doesn't mean the skill is transferred. Once again, she was crazy which is why when all of those memories came flooding in it overwhelmed her, which is why she started speaking Chinese. Honestly using this Crazy Slayer as a baseline test to see if all skills are transferred to Slayers is a very bad example. All of these other Slayers were not speaking Chinese & other Foreign Languages. Again if every Slayer gets the skills of every dead slayer before them, every Slayer after Buffy Died in Season 5(Again), would be equally to her in skill. We know this isn't true.

C) he did not fully underestimate her as he knew she had super stats before fighting her, he just thought she was a demon and not a skilled Slayer.

C. Actually he did underestimate her for that very reason, he was taunting her, because he saw her as just some fodder demon. If he had known he was fighting a Slayer he wouldn't have been messing around.

Go back and watch the fight, Round 1: She straight up picks him up and tosses him out of a window, that isn't skill. She was fighting on instinct, pure crazy Slayer rage. Now, you may say well, she tried to use a wooden stake, but that is no different from when a wild dog instinctually knows to go for the juggler vain or, when a snake knows to use it's fangs or when a bird knows to pick up a rock to crack a seashell open to get the goodies inside.

Round 2: She tricks him into an alley by using her blood, why? She simply has info on vampires from the memory thing. She again over powers him, she wasn't using any martial arts, or special techniques, she wasn't even boxing, she was just brawling.

Round 3: She uses her memory information, she repeats that Spike is William the Bloody, but do you know why it's so stupid she recognizes him? Because Buffy, nor Nikki(2nd Slayer he killed) knew who he was on first sight the way crazy slayer did. Basically a lot of this episode flew in the face of many already established events, but a lot of it once again is explained by her crazy factor.

He tries to talk to her, because ever since before Round 2, he is no longer interested in hurting her.

Once again, having Slayer memories does not mean every Slayer has the skills and fighting techniques of every previous Slayer. If that were true every new Slayer(after Kung Fu was invented) without any previous training would start flipping around and be fighting like martial arts masters.

@gojira2014: PS: Angel didn't fair against Crazy Slayer any better(Yet he is even more skilled than Buffy), she was tossing him around, then he finally used a skilled choke hold, screamed for his team, & the shot her full of tranq darts. Like seriously, she punched him & sent him flying, she was seriously crazy amped(but I think we both agree on this).

@lukehero: Im sorry I still disagree period. Buffy showed massive skill before being trained as per her origins comic.

Gallery

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Gallery

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Gallery

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Gallery

No training, yet some serious skill showings in the Origin comic.

@gojira2014: Outside of the shooting of fly thing, none of that represented skill. Some one can have good aim without being a Slayer. That could be the natural talent of Buffy. Also, let's ask ourselves she does have super strength? Even in her lips? OK. She can blow something harder than a normal person(insert joke). OK. The fly was only a mere foot or 2 feet in front of her? Not all that skillful huh? Just a neat trick.

That's speed, strength, and agility, as well as Slayer Instinct. Why show the first set of scans? That only goes back to the Slayer; Dreams, Visions, & Instinct Factor?

By the way, Buffy even told Dawn on her first hunt she missed the heart(during season 7 when she is trying to teach Dawn). Once again showing, Slayer Instinct does not equal fighting master. In fact knowing how to fight and brawl, isn't even remotely the same thing as being well trained & well skilled & well versed in a number of situational fighting techniques.

Buffy catching a knife is not skill, that's speed, and natural Slayer hand eye coordination.

Last set of scans, she is using agility, she stabs some vamps(doesn't take a kung fu master to stab things). Then she brawls a bit, and lights some vamps on fire. Having some handy hair spray would amount to prep work, not skill.

I guess we are just going to have to disagree.

@lukehero: You know some people who have something thrown at them, like say soft ball, and could never hit such a easy target at all. It takes skill, it takes Experience (which goes hand to hand to skill in something) to do what she did.

• the fact she does dream the past lives and thus gain observational experience to begin with develops skill to someone who never possessed prior knowledge.
• Catch a razor bladed object in a way not to harm herself. Most teenage girls DO NOT KNOW how to do that.
• To have accuracy (form of skill) regardless of strength and speed reaction to nail a fly flying around requires skill.
• To kill vampire that can only be killed a certain way by the numbers with no prior fighting training in such a agile perfect way is skill!

You and I guess will not agree. i think its downplaying the Innate skill all Slayers must have to do their job and in the short time they have it. Watcher training for Buffy was after day school crap with giles, hardly hardcore training yet she hangs with Spike and Angel even though feat for feat they are same with her with over 200 years fighting expeirence.

Your not convincing me man, I love both shows and will disagree. Experience goes hand to hand with skill, and all Slayers have experience from past lives to help the skill gap with their short brutal lives.

Look at Faith. She has no real training for any time as a Slayer yet hangs with Angel and a season Buffy all the time!. innate skill at work.

@gojira2014: Dexterity does not take skill, there are many animals in nature that have incredible hand eye coordination; monkeys, apes, and others for the primate family.

Umm, stabbing something in the heart does not show skill or technique, that just means you have basic knowledge of anatomy.

Actually that after school stuff you are trying to downplay is hardcore training, also it is referenced that she has been training a lot with Giles off screen. When Wesley arrives in season 3 he begins to do more skill refinement and tests with the two slayers.

Experience does not go hand and hand with skill, just because you have been in a lot of fights, does not make you skilled, at all.

Faith hangs with Angel because she is a Slayer and is stronger, and faster. Funny you bring her up, because Angel said in season 3 after she killed that innocent human, that she fought wild and sloppy.

Every slayer doesn't even get all of the memories of every other Slayer quite frankly, they don't get omni knowledge of all things Slayer. You're actually ignoring entire story lines mate. Buffy and the gang had to read the watcher diaries to gain more knowledge of the first slayer. She also had to have the weird visions of the first slayer at the end of season 4, but only because they performed that special spell to merge with the Scooby Gang. Then in season 5 Giles had to take Buffy on a vision quest in order for Buffy to gain more knowledge of the first slayer. Hell Dracula even explained to Buffy she was just starting to understand her own powers in season 5. Speaking of Season 5 Buffy and Giles renew their training sessions, giving Buffy even more training feats. Giles and Riley build Buffy a special training room, again showing Buffy is getting training. Buffy isn't an awesome fighter, just because of Slayer Instincts. She has received training from Giles, worked out with Angel, and even got some training from Wesley. Buffy herself even highlights the importance of training in season 7.

Again in Season 5 Buffy proves all Slayers don't get the knowledge of everything Slayer. Spike has to give her a complete and totally breakdown of his fights and kills vs the two Slayers he murdered. Isn't it weird she didn't have those memories? Isn't it weird Buffy doesn't recognize other characters previous Slayers have fought on her first encounter with them? What Slayers get is actually fractured memories, not play by play on all Slayer knowledge. Going through Fractruted Slayer memories is like reading a few torn pages from a physics book, then claiming you're a rocket scientist. Again if Slayers recieved perfect and clear info on everything Slayer, then why the hell didn't the Jamican Slayer already know who Angel was? And that he was a good vampire? Too many things prove I'm right and that Slayers don't even get all of the info from dead slayers in the first place. What they get amounts to special Slayer predotoral type instincts, some visions, and some dreams.

The entire point of the freaking watchers is so that the Slayers have someone to train and guide them.

@lukehero:

Dexterity does not take skill, there are many animals in nature that have incredible hand eye coordination; monkeys, apes, and others for the primate family.

Show me a monkey catching that razor blade the "RIGHT" way and not the way that will cut off your hands. Skill.

I remember my friend tossing his blade to some idiot who let the pointy end land on there palm. Having hand and eye coordination means nothing if someone is unskilled at doing something like catching blades with out hurting themselves.

Umm, stabbing something in the heart does not show skill or technique, that just means you have basic knowledge of anatomy.

Go ahead and show me a case of someone stabbing someone in the heart with the same stats as themselves, and has easy mid belt martial arts grasp while they do not, then we can talk.

Not only has she never fought a day in her life but those fresh vampires still have shown Innate skill when raise from the dead themselves. Many high school kids killed and came back gave buffy trouble with martial art moves. Vampires have Innate skill, and roughly the same stats as buffy half the time. What she did could not happen without skill inherent. Period.

Actually that after school stuff you are trying to downplay is hardcore training, also it is referenced that she has been training a lot with Giles off screen. When Wesley arrives in season 3 he begins to do more skill refinement and tests with the two slayers.

Buffy skill shown is not impressive, I watched the show. sorry. angels training with Cordelia in Angel was more hardcore than Buffy's, but then I know a little thing or two of real world training :/

Experience does not go hand and hand with skill, just because you have been in a lot of fights, does not make you skilled, at all.

Know, but experience will always play a role in being better than someone equal to your stats and has no idea what they are doing. We as humans learn from experience and skill comes with learning. Its hand in hand. Ever heard the phrase Youth vs Experience? Thats a classic example of someone too old to do fancy moves like crap, but use experience to win still. Someone who trained ten years in tae kon do, but does crappy in tournaments, will have a better grasp than the new kid that just signed up period. Experience!

Faith hangs with Angel because she is a Slayer and is stronger, and faster. Funny you bring her up, because Angel said in season 3 after she killed that innocent human, that she fought wild and sloppy.

Does not change the fact her skill still hangs with all the top tier guys for awhile and she SHOWS SKILL in the very moves she does in the show.

You cannot be this ignorant of her feats which include martial arts that she never really learned during her time. She had zero time to be trained anywhere near Buffy level after whate her face died, yet skill wise was more than a match for the Vamps that crossed her path and even managed to beat Angel once even though he has SUPERIOR feats.

Angelus had her and Wesley easy beat at first but she manages to get him down, but spares him in the end. Where she learn this skill, who trained her? She was in PRISON the whole time!

Every slayer doesn't even get all of the memories of every other Slayer quite frankly, they don't get omni knowledge of all things Slayer. You're actually ignoring entire story lines mate. Buffy and the gang had to read the watcher diaries to gain more knowledge of the first slayer. She also had to have the weird visions of the first slayer at the end of season 4, but only because they performed that special spell to merge with the Scooby Gang. Then in season 5 Giles had to take Buffy on a vision quest in order for Buffy to gain more knowledge of the first slayer. Hell Dracula even explained to Buffy she was just know starting to understand her own power. Speaking of Season 5 Buffy and Giles renew their training sessions. Giles and Riley build Buffy a special training room, again showing Buffy is getting training. Buffy isn't an awesome fighter, just because of Slayer Insticts.

I never said they gain all knowledge, I said the gain Skill. Innate skill. They have experience as well thanks to the dreams. In no way am I saying they have all the skill or knowledge. They have a portion of it to start with from Innate skill though, thats the fact.

Again in Season 5 Burfy proves all Slayers don't get the knowledge of everything Slayer. Spike has to give her a complete and totally breakdown of his fights and kills vs the two Slayers he murdered. Isn't it weird she didn't have those memories? Isn't it weird Buffy doesn't recognize other characters previous Slayers have fought on her first encounter with them? What Slayers get is actually fractured memories, not play by play on Slayer knowledge. Going through Fractruted Slayer memories is like reading a few torn pages from a psychics book, then claiming you're a rocket scientist. Again if Slayers recieved perfect and clear info on everything Slayer, then why the hell didn't the Jamican Slayer already know who Angel was? And that he was a good vampire? Too many things prove I'm right and that Slayers don't even get all of the info from dead slayers in the first place. What they get amounts to special Slayer predotoral type instincts, some visions, and some dreams.

She only gets dreams and some experience of slayers, again I never said she gets all the details and experiences of all the thousands of slayers before her. she only dreamed of three slayers as per the origins comics. The Psycho Slayer only showed experiences of one of the Slayers that Spike killed. These are facts.

Its still innate skill and experience than starting from a blank slate.

The entire point of the freaking watchers is so that the Slayers have someone to train and guide them.

the Watchers made them better yes. They still had Innate skill to start with!

@gojira2014: Sorry,disagree mate, having some instincts and natural fighting talent is not skill. Also we get to see Buffy's flash back of her first kill, she was clumsy and had no skill.

Almost all of the potential Slayers are identified during their teenage years and train with their watchers before they are activate to be the next slayer. Both Faith and the Jamaican Slayer and most of the potential slayers of season 7 all mention having watchers. She could have trained then, she could have improved herself and kept herself sharp during prison. All inmates do is work out, eat, sleep, watch a little tv, and try not to get raped in the prison shower.

You've already agreed that Slayers do not get omni knowledge of the Slayers and that these are clearly Fractured Memories, so how are they getting this omni fighting knowledge, if they are only getting a mix of partial memories, it's not very logical is it?

Again, Slayers have natural fighting skill.

Skill and Experience; Bullcrap. You can be an immortal human and practice basketball for a lifetime, that doesn't mean you'll ever become Larry Bird or Micheal Jordan. Some people are just naturally good at things, it's called talent.

It's like the Rain Man he never gambled on his life, but he had a natural god given talent for it, that doesn't , make him a skilled gambler though or mean he can beat skilled gamblers.

Ever played a competitive video game like a fighting game or first person shooter. You play the game for months, then someone comes over your house and has never played that game before and stomps you in it? Again some people just have natural talent for things. It's like those child protégées that for some reason can play piano by ear(no training) or are good at art(no training)? Stuff like that happens all the time.

Come on now mate, don't take the monkey stuff out of context. Monkeys don't have Slayer a instincts which I have already described.

I guess we could debate this until we are blue in the face, we are just not going to agree. :) we are skill cool though.

Vampires and Slayers are born or rise up with natural talent, that doesn't make them all Kung fu masters. Whedon even pokes fun at the silliness of vampires in Season 7, when Buffy asks the therapist vampire how did he learn those Kung Fu moves, and he says been working out at the Y or some other crap like that.

Anyway, we mine as well end this here, seems like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Too much of the established story line I have already pointed out points to me being correct on this matter.

@gojira2014: FYI talent does not equal skill, such as a kid picks up a football and starts throwing it around extremely well, but skill takes refinement. So, that kid still has to practice, receive coaching, and go to football camps of he wants to improve.

Almost all of the potential Slayers are identified during their teenage years and train with their watchers before they are activate to be the next slayer. Both Faith and the Jamaican Slayer and most of the potential slayers of season 7 all mention having watchers. She could have trained then, she could have improved herself and kept herself sharp during prison. All inmates do is work out, eat, sleep, watch a little tv, and try not to get raped in the prison shower.

there is no record or statement of faith being trained as a potential at all. where was buffy's training as a potential? many Potentials are not trained and just watched till a new slayer is picked.

how can thousands potential been previously trained :/ Especially when Faith was third in line after Buffy was picked for a few years?

You've already agreed that Slayers do not get omni knowledge of the Slayers and that these are clearly Fractured Memories, so how are they getting this omni fighting knowledge, if they are only getting a mix of partial memories, it's not very logical is it?

Omni fighting knoweldge, they have Basic skill from what little knowledge they have is all i am saying.

Again, Slayers have natural fighting skill.

yes... yes they do. thats what i been saying!

Skill and Experience; Bullcrap. You can be an immortal human and practice basketball for a lifetime, that doesn't mean you'll ever become Larry Bird or Micheal Jordan. Some people are just naturally good at things, it's called talent.

this is a Plato vs Aristotle argument man. you belive things just happen "Natural Talent" and I believe they are earned from previous experience "basic innate Skill"

It's like the Rain Man he never gambled on his life, but he had a natural god given talent for it, that doesn't , make him a skilled gambler though or mean he can beat skilled gamblers.

Gambling and skill are different as one is random and the other is attainable

Ever played a competitive video game like a fighting game or first person shooter. You play the game for months, then someone comes over your house and has never played that game before and stomps you in it? Again some people just have natural talent for things. It's like those child protégées that for some reason can play piano by ear(no training) or are good at art(no training)? Stuff like that happens all the time.

I never had that problem. If I am play any game long enough, i win at it. never been beaten by noobs who just pick it up either.

Come on now mate, don't take the monkey stuff out of context. Monkeys don't have Slayer a instincts which I have already described.

What i meant by that is that said monkey had the stats or normal human who never fight had the stats, but still would have reacted dumb and caught that specific bladed weapon wrong. there was only one right way to catch it.

I guess we could debate this until we are blue in the face, we are just not going to agree. :) we are skill cool though.

yeah. :)

Vampires and Slayers are born or rise up with natural talent, that doesn't make them all Kung fu masters. Whedon even pokes fun at the silliness of vampires in Season 7, when Buffy asks the therapist vampire how did he learn those Kung Fu moves, and he says been working out at the Y or some other crap like that.

never said they were masters, they have innate skill. innate is not mastery, it can be basic.

Anyway, we mine as well end this here, seems like we are going to have to agree to disagree. Too much of the established story line I have already pointed out points to me being correct on this matter.

yeah.

Fair enough, so Slayers then can be said extremely talent at fighting. Though that sounds silly for a debate.

:P anyway we will agree to disagree on this subject.

@gojira2014: Well honestly the talent thing is based on actual science. There is no such thing as innate skill. There is only innate talent or it's called innate ability. Talent is a gift from God or Natural Selection...whichever you believe. Please read the article, then you will understand what I mean when I say practice and experience have nothing to do whether you are good at something. Experience helps in areas of tactical thinking and intelligence. Overall this has been an interesting discussion :)

Here is the article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2328337/Practice-NOT-make-perfect-Innate-talent-whats-required-greatness-areas-games-music.html

Talent is not real either, as it is unproven and cannot be determine or measured in a person with no set of numbers applicable.

Im afraid the science article is bull though.

http://www.learning-to-see.co.uk/talent

http://www.intergalacticmedicineshow.com/cgi-bin/mag.cgi?do=columns&vol=mette_ivie_harrison&article=048

http://cogprints.org/656/1/innate.htm

there is nothing Scientific about talent. So this whole "they're talented" is no viable argument anymore than "Innate Skill" when discussing characters with Demon powers! :)

@gojira2014: There are many things that cannot be explained by modern science or measured. That doesn't make it any less real or mean that one day science won't one day come up with an answer. Example; thousands of years ago, people could not explain or even knew what gravity was, that didn't make it any less real.

Again you can work as hard as you want at playing Quaterback, that doesn't mean you will become like Joe Montana.

Yes, we are talking about characters with demon powers, and super powers. Which is why you should recognize when something is a natural gift and not the result of any form of actual skill. Actually your articles fly I the face of your own argument about Inante Skill(when there is no such thing, I remind you).

Other characters in series such as DBZ can work harder than Goku all they want to, but unless they are a Sayians or so,e other type of special alien they stand no chance of becoming as strong. Even other Sayians have trouble keeping up with him,such as Vegeta so plains about Goku's natural fighting talent. Vegeta stated he had to work twice as hard to be half as good. Also I believe there was a similar statement by Anya complaining about Buffy's slayer gifts.

Somehow I think we got way off the initial argument :)

@gojira2014: Lol, what the hell were we debating?

@gojira2014: Oh yeah, I was basically saying Buffy is no where as skilled as a xena or other top tier skill characters. You were debating in favor of Buffy's skill level. You trying to tank your Buffy vs Xena CaV?

Actually this is where the the confusion sets in :)

I said xena is easily the most skilled, while buffy is high up their with her Innate Skill. then we got into a fight of Innate skill exists in slayers. Your saying Natural Talent, and I said Innate Skill.

@gojira2014: So, Buffy's skill is very close to Xena's(according to you)? :)

close? oh yeah. As versatile (Pressure Points, overall weapon handling, chi knowledge) ? nope.

@gojira2014: Interesting....

Logan

Xena is almost a non factor here, if Logan is fighting to the best of his abilities, he wins (rather easily)