Wolverine (No HF) vs Ultimate Captain America

@cadencev2: Automatic Loss for Wolverine, as you use an image from Wolverine- The Best there is.

How well Wolverine does depends on how much you think of Wells and Cornell's depiction of Wolverine skill feats tie in to his healing factor. If you believe they tie in heavily, then Wolverine gets trounced. If you think otherwise, Wolverine does rather better, though I think Cap should take a slight majority.

I'll hand over the brothers in claw (@wolverine08 is already here)

@super_soldierxii@god_spawn thoughts :P

@laflux:

I'm honored you consider me one of the brothers in claw mate :D

@cadencev2:

So he has lost knowledge? @wolverine08 That sounds logical and what I meant too. People make it sound he never forgotten anything.

He has forgotten stuff. It's been a center point of a few arcs, most recent ones being Wolverine vs Daken when Logan went to the Silver Surfer to brush up on his swordsmanship. Manifest Destiny with Master Po had him needing a brush up. It's also a point in Cornell's Wolverine, but Logan has had a brush up just a few years ago and plenty of skill feats for him to get beat on by Batroc for a few pages, so that's why Cornell's Logan is generally ignored, or should be.

Could you put in a hold someone with 2 tons of strength? Also I did not know Gambit ever had gotten the best of Logan.

In comics when there isn't a HUGE strength gap, then yes, it's highly plausible. He got the best of a sick Wolverine, and he used a distraction in a hologram of Lady Deathstrike to come in and get Logan with some blows to down him. He held the staff to his throat and said "bang, you dead." Logan's beaten him rather easily, though when he is up to par in a straight fight. My point is just the end of the first fight where he has Logan down.

I disagree with his skill being tied to his HF. I think there is more than enough evidence against it to suggest he doesn't need it because he has fought just fine without it. It takes a little bit of transitioning, but he does it just fine. It's just using his HF is what he is most used to because he can get a little lazy. With that said, Cornellverine is still terrible. And Zeb was making Logan sucking in a fight at first. which is understandable for him to get to the transition because his usual hack and slash isn't gonna work. Take AvX Cap vs Logan for example. Logan was leaping and slashing and Cap was getting the edge. Then Logan fell back on his skill and disarmed Cap of the shield, cut his stomach, and kicked him away. Zeb was making Logan suck and then he would just go berserk, which isn't true. Going berserk isn't his "warmed up".

Agreed with that.

seems legit

Ultimately, he didn't lose to Batroc;

Thank god. Could not have lived that one down. Even a Wolverine without his healing factor ... oh the humanity ...

Though it's clear Cornell is indicating how Logan lost significant amounts of skill. My guess, is this is Cornell's attempt at writing marital skill back into the character "Wolverine", forcing him to reawaken that aspect of himself in full due to the loss of his healing factor, and to excuse all his "Roar! Rarr! Imma tank mindlessly!!!" moments.

Guess his "experience" won out here. Sigh.

@super_soldierxii: I know he didn't, but for some reason I keep saying he did, even though I've posted the fight a few times on the site actually. I said it in another thread and caught myself and edited it. Still, he shouldn't have gotten humiliated by Batroc like that. Cornell better have a big payoff, otherwise he has destroyed one of the aspects of Logan that most writers have enough trouble getting down as is.

I see.

Cap with his shield > Wolverine with claws

Afraid not.