Wolverine (Morals Off) vs Deathstroke and Bane

Wolverine (Pre Cornel) is extremely pissed off. (morals off)

Vs

Deathstroke (Pre52) and Bane (New 52)

-Standard Gear

-Win by Incap, Ko or Death

-Location: Gotham

-Who Wins and Why?

Logan

Wolverine can beat DS or Bane, but not both at the same time.

The healing factor is a HUGE equalizer in this fight. As much as Deathstroke is skilled and Bane is a tank, Wolverine's healing factor makes him able to take just about anything they can dish out.

Team: 6/10

@night_thrasher: i agree my borther in the nt

Yeah that healing factor is hard to overlook. But in the end I think skill would overcome

Wolverine

Deathstroke should be able to weaken logan badly and bane with venom should deliver a ko blow

Wolverine

@night_thrasher: How would skill overcome when in terms of technical showings, Wolverine is better than both Slade and Bane?

@wolverine08: I'll agree with Bane slightly, but Slade is Logan's superior when it comes to skill.

Wolverine could easily gut Bane. The guy's fighting style is going to prove to be his downfall, when Logan cuts off his head lol.

Slade, on the other hand, can give Wolverine hell, and his blast staff could KO Wolverine if he hits in the right spot (like through the eyes).

Together, I think Slade would just use Bane as a distraction to get off a good shot.

@night_thrasher: Wolverine's skill edge over New 52 Bane is absolutely massive. It hasn't been expounded at all the fact that he is a martial artist, and he's been only been a physical force. Would you care to bring showings of knowledge that make Slade better than someone whom has mastered 18 forms of Kung Fu, Budo, alien martial arts, kenjutsu, esoteric Jewish martial arts used only bi Israel's Mossad, and according to most official handbooks, every martial art that exists on Earth? Or does Slade have technical showings better than Wolverine putting down class 100's with his index finger via pressure points, creating aneurysms just by kicking specific parts of the leg, identifying Silver Samurai's fighting style just by his stance, identifying Rock of the Buddha(A Thing level opponent physically whom was good enough to be included in the Black Dragon Death squad, a group of people good enough to attack souls via their martial skill) weak spot with just a glance and put him down with a karate chop?

Slade's blast staff shoots out fairly big explosions that have knocked down helicopters, I seriously doubt that they are small enough to fit through an eye. It'd just explode in Logan's face, and he's tanked explosions like that all the time.

@wolverine08: Like I said I'll give you Bane, but both Bane and Wolverine have the same thing working against them. Both tend to let the skill fall by the wayside and rely on physical attributes over their actual skill. That's why I said Slade outranks them both. How many times has Wolverine had opponents deal what would be a fatal blow only for him to be saved by his adamantium skeleton or healing factor? The whole first part of "Killable" expounded on the fact that he relies on his healing factor a ton when fighting.

Yup.

@night_thrasher: Wolverine uses his skill all the time when he's fighting. If we decide to look at showings from just the end of Schism(Around the beginning of 2011) to the middle of 2013 when Cornellrine started we get about 10+ showings of martial skill? He dropped a class 100+ Stronation Kid Gladiator with his index finger via a pressure point, he defeated Silver Samurai in a pure sword fight and even pointed out flaws in his form, he destroyed the Black Dragon Death Sqaud all by his lonesome, he whupped the mystical martial arse of Murderous Lion when his overall martial knowledge had been depleted in half by mind tampering from Doctor Rot, he destroyed Daken in Origins with just a sword while holding back, he beat Daken silly and summarily drowned him, he's WTF stomped a Sabretooth whom is physically stronger/faster/better healing factor 6 times in a row, he used stealth to break into the United Nations without being seen for Cyclops, and he completely embarrassed Captain America in one move by dodging a shield bash, cutting his shield straps, and kicking him away(Instead of disemboweling him). I limited myself to just two years in Wolverine's history and didn't even look in any of his solos and I just named 15 showings.

Cornell's run is also not a consistent portrayal of Wolverine. He has portrayed as Wolverine someone incapable of fighting without his healing factor when he's done things like stomp Captain America when his healing factor was barely working due to the exhaustion of running a multi day gauntlet and has fought Omega Red and Lady Deathstrike simultaneously without his healing factor. Wolverine's only problem is that he has been described as being lazy at times in usage of his martial talent by his Master Po, but going through most of his showings, he uses his skill against fellowly skilled people, and he can identify the fact that Slade's skilled through his stance like he did with Silver Samurai in Origins.

I'm not saying Logan isn't skilled, but like you said, he's inconsistent. And he also relies on his healing factor a lot. Something that probably wouldn't matter when fighting Bane, because Bane is used to being bigger and faster than anybody he faces so he could easily take that for granted. However, Slade skill wise, is on another level than Bane. Slade has tanked the entire JLA and Teen Titans and has defeated some of the best fighters in the DC universe in 1v1 situations. I would say Slade is the gold standard in this grouping, especially since it's Pre52 Slade and Wolverine slightly edges out Bane. Even though Wolverine is skilled, he tends to lean towards tank and that won't cut it against Slade.

Team

Deathstroke didn't fight the entire JLA actually. He fought a smaller, B list roster. And the fact that he's fought both those teams is mostly due to the fact that he's studied both teams extensively, and this has helped him due to the tactical capability his brain holds. Slade fighting teams is more of a showcasing of his tactical capability rather than the fact that he's a better martial artist than Wolverine. In terms of technical skill, he honestly doesn't have showings that are good as Wolverine dropping a class 100 with his index finger via a pressure point, creating pseudo aneurysms with kicks, etc. Yes, Wolverine is occasionally lazy, but looking at what he does against people he knows are skilled like Captain America, Iron Fist, Daken, Sabretooth, Silver Samurai, etc. he brings out the skill. So as long as he can pick out the fact that Slade is a skilled fighter(Which he has done through stance to other skilled fighters), he's going to be using the skill, and that skill along with Wolverine's damage soak(Which is much better than Slade's), and damage output via his claws is going to be hard to overcome.

So you're calling me on him not defeating a Justice League with the Big Three even though it did have Flash and Dinah, but your gonna use a "feat" of Logan using a pressure point on a character with bullet proof skin? So does Logan have super strength now?

Eh team

Deathstroke might solo. Bane dies.

I wanna pick team

I wasn't calling you out. Just adding context. And what Wolverine did with Kid Gladiator has happened with people in his weight class skill wise. I can bring many examples. People whom are skilled enough have been able to hurt extremely durable beings via pressure points. It's even happened to Thor.

Interesting. I think that Death stroke and Bane should win. They are both pretty good strategists and could perhaps take advantage of Logan's anger and turn it against him. Either one alone could give Wolverine a hard time.

But Thor doesn't have bullet proof skin. I'm saying anytime somebody with supposedly invulnerable skin gets KO'd by pressure points it's PIS. Namor, Superman, Silver Surfer, Sentry, Hulk, etc. If a bullet can't pierce their skin then how can a character without super strength press down hard enough to hit a nerve through invulnerable skin?

I'm afraid I'll have to go with team as well but I can be swayed

Thor is bullet proof as shown here.

You are using the term PIS incorrectly. PIS is something that goes against what has consistently happened/what a character has consistently happened. In the context of what you are discussing, high tier characters getting affected with pressure points has happened consistently. Very so in fact. It's been established that people whom are skilled enough like Wolverine can bypass durability via their pressure pointing technique. Is it illogical? Most definitely, but not really more so than the other things that happen around street level land. And most importantly, it has happened consistently.

Stop with the Quoting!!!

@wolverine08 said:

@night_thrasher said:

@wolverine08 said:

@night_thrasher said:

@wolverine08 said:

@night_thrasher said:

@wolverine08 said:

@night_thrasher: Wolverine uses his skill all the time when he's fighting. If we decide to look at showings from just the end of Schism(Around the beginning of 2011) to the middle of 2013 when Cornellrine started we get about 10+ showings of martial skill? He dropped a class 100+ Stronation Kid Gladiator with his index finger via a pressure point, he defeated Silver Samurai in a pure sword fight and even pointed out flaws in his form, he destroyed the Black Dragon Death Sqaud all by his lonesome, he whupped the mystical martial arse of Murderous Lion when his overall martial knowledge had been depleted in half by mind tampering from Doctor Rot, he destroyed Daken in Origins with just a sword while holding back, he beat Daken silly and summarily drowned him, he's WTF stomped a Sabretooth whom is physically stronger/faster/better healing factor 6 times in a row, he used stealth to break into the United Nations without being seen for Cyclops, and he completely embarrassed Captain America in one move by dodging a shield bash, cutting his shield straps, and kicking him away(Instead of disemboweling him). I limited myself to just two years in Wolverine's history and didn't even look in any of his solos and I just named 15 showings.

Cornell's run is also not a consistent portrayal of Wolverine. He has portrayed as Wolverine someone incapable of fighting without his healing factor when he's done things like stomp Captain America when his healing factor was barely working due to the exhaustion of running a multi day gauntlet and has fought Omega Red and Lady Deathstrike simultaneously without his healing factor. Wolverine's only problem is that he has been described as being lazy at times in usage of his martial talent by his Master Po, but going through most of his showings, he uses his skill against fellowly skilled people, and he can identify the fact that Slade's skilled through his stance like he did with Silver Samurai in Origins.

I'm not saying Logan isn't skilled, but like you said, he's inconsistent. And he also relies on his healing factor a lot. Something that probably wouldn't matter when fighting Bane, because Bane is used to being bigger and faster than anybody he faces so he could easily take that for granted. However, Slade skill wise, is on another level than Bane. Slade has tanked the entire JLA and Teen Titans and has defeated some of the best fighters in the DC universe in 1v1 situations. I would say Slade is the gold standard in this grouping, especially since it's Pre52 Slade and Wolverine slightly edges out Bane. Even though Wolverine is skilled, he tends to lean towards tank and that won't cut it against Slade.

Deathstroke didn't fight the entire JLA actually. He fought a smaller, B list roster. And the fact that he's fought both those teams is mostly due to the fact that he's studied both teams extensively, and this has helped him due to the tactical capability his brain holds. Slade fighting teams is more of a showcasing of his tactical capability rather than the fact that he's a better martial artist than Wolverine. In terms of technical skill, he honestly doesn't have showings that are good as Wolverine dropping a class 100 with his index finger via a pressure point, creating pseudo aneurysms with kicks, etc. Yes, Wolverine is occasionally lazy, but looking at what he does against people he knows are skilled like Captain America, Iron Fist, Daken, Sabretooth, Silver Samurai, etc. he brings out the skill. So as long as he can pick out the fact that Slade is a skilled fighter(Which he has done through stance to other skilled fighters), he's going to be using the skill, and that skill along with Wolverine's damage soak(Which is much better than Slade's), and damage output via his claws is going to be hard to overcome.

So you're calling me on him not defeating a Justice League with the Big Three even though it did have Flash and Dinah, but your gonna use a "feat" of Logan using a pressure point on a character with bullet proof skin? So does Logan have super strength now?

I wasn't calling you out. Just adding context. And what Wolverine did with Kid Gladiator has happened with people in his weight class skill wise. I can bring many examples. People whom are skilled enough have been able to hurt extremely durable beings via pressure points. It's even happened to Thor.

But Thor doesn't have bullet proof skin. I'm saying anytime somebody with supposedly invulnerable skin gets KO'd by pressure points it's PIS. Namor, Superman, Silver Surfer, Sentry, Hulk, etc. If a bullet can't pierce their skin then how can a character without super strength press down hard enough to hit a nerve through invulnerable skin?

Thor is bullet proof as shown here.

You are using the term PIS incorrectly. PIS is something that goes against what has consistently happened/what a character has consistently happened. In the context of what you are discussing, high tier characters getting affected with pressure points has happened consistently. Very so in fact. It's been established that people whom are skilled enough like Wolverine can bypass durability via their pressure pointing technique. Is it illogical? Most definitely, but not really more so than the other things that happen around street level land. And most importantly, it has happened consistently.

Appreciate the Thor feat, cuz I always thought he wasn't bulletproof. But as far as the pressure points and invulnerability thing; I do think it's PIS even though it's been used countless times before. When someone can tank bullets (and missiles in the case of some like Superman and Sentry) then there is no way that a character like Wolverine or Karate Kid (yep I meant what I said!) should be able to apply enough pressure to get to a nerve past skin and muscle that can withstand that amount of force. It was PIS the first time somebody did it and it's PIS now. I could call it CIS on Wolverine's part but he's not the only to do it.

@night_thrasher: No problem with the Thor feat. In regards to the pressure pointing, think of it like this. We usually establish what and what cannot be accomplished by watching for consistency. For example, Batman has always been presented as someone whom has no superhuman abilities of the sort, and is completely normal like you and I, but just has trained his body to perfection. Now, we both know that no human being, no matter how physically honed can't do the things Batman has done like punch bullets out of the air after they have been fired. So do we cast aside those bullet dodging feats as PIS because they shouldn't be possible for a normal human like Batman? WE don't because it's been established consistently that peak humans in Batman's world can achieve stuff like that. Like wise, while we both know that if someone in real life whom had bullet proof skin got pressure pointed it wouldn't do jack to them, but comic book writers have consistently established that skilled enough martial artists can work past durability via their skill with pressure points. We use consistency to validate or invalidate feats because if we went by logic, the large majority of what goes down would be tossed aside as PIS.

Pre-Cornell...standard gear only? Damn team doesn't have much to roll with without Logan's jobbing and no counter to his healing factor. Physically they out-scale him, but speed and skill wise he might be slightly above them. With that in mind, his claws, healing factor, pain tolerance and durability barely overcome their numbers, range, physicals, and teamwork.

Logan wins 6/10.

Basicially, in the words of the late Super_SoldierXIII, Skill is a superpower in and of itself.

YOU KILLED HIM!

@wolverine08: :)

Logan.

@laflux: Your day will come as well!

They eliminated my geist brethen, but I survived, storing most of my essense in another body........

Looks good.

@night_thrasher:

But as far as the pressure points and invulnerability thing; I do think it's PIS even though it's been used countless times before. When someone can tank bullets (and missiles in the case of some like Superman and Sentry) then there is no way that a character like Wolverine or Karate Kid (yep I meant what I said!) should be able to apply enough pressure to get to a nerve past skin and muscle that can withstand that amount of force. It was PIS the first time somebody did it and it's PIS now. I could call it CIS on Wolverine's part but he's not the only to do it.

LOVE THIS POST! Well said.

@pokeysteve:

LOVE THIS POST! Well said.

But if we went by that idea proposed by that post, about 70%(Being lenient here) of stuff put forward in comics is PIS.

Team wins. I remember like a month ago when Slade vs wolverine was hotly debated and pretty even. Now all of a sudden people think wolverine is unbeatable and can take Slade and other top street levelers at once. No idea what happened, but Slade can win by himself

@wolverine08: Not Batman!He's 100% legit and consistent!

@reaverlation:

@wolverine08: Not really, I do think that we have to suspend disbelief; but some things just don't pass my "smell test". And the pressure points thing is one of them. The Superman breathing in space thing is another. If he can be gassed , then he has to breath. Maybe he can hold his breath for a long time but he eventually has to breath. So Superman can't breath in space!

@night_thrasher: Haha, I can understand, I just tend to use consistency to sort out all the craziness. Works fairly well for me.

@wolverine08: Comics is a world of inconsistencies my friend. That's why I hate feats in battle threads. Popular characters like Wolverine, Superman, Batman, etc have so many appearances that they have feats on low ends and high ends that consistently contradict each other.

It's one of those things you have to use your common sense on. If Superman takes an entire armies worth of bullets of all calipers and then Batman drops him with a poke of a finger, does that really make any sense? Consistency doesn't matter. It just doesn't make any sense. If it's a character with similar strength like WW or Shazam than it sounds right. We buy that characters can dodge bullets and crap like that because they have gone through training that no human could or would do. You think about it and it's like eh all right. A finger poke doing what a 1100 f/ps round can't do is ridiculous.